So for GT, Santa Cruz, Cannondale, Focus, Rotwild, Storck there might another reason as well to choose Bosch for full power e-bikes and Fazua ( which is 100% owned by Porsche) for their light weight. All companies above are part of a joint venture between the Pon Holding and Porsche. So it might look like many companies switch to Bosch but actually it only was one centralised decision (in that particular case). Btw Porsche is planning to offer a complete e-bike system in the future complete with Porsche branded motors, so I am expecting the name fazua to vanish after some time. Edit: The Pon Holding also is share holder of the Accell Group (ghost, Haibike, Lapierre, Koga, Diamandback)
Good theory. But I honestly don't think there is ANY CHANCE that Pon Holdings will tell the Santa Cruz Bikes product manager to switch motor brands because of a global relationship. Pon Holdings is good at company structure and financial P/L practices. Run a tight and profitable ship. The last thing they will and could do is tell the product experts how to build their product and choose this component over another. That is a sure way to kill a subsidiary and lose the best employees and category experts.
Francis, great updates. Especially the report on continued legalization of trails for eMTBs. One problem is that for many outside the cycling industry, when they think of e-bikes, they are picturing Sur-Ron type bikes. There needs to be an increased effort to educate the public on Class 1 eMTBs and separate them out from the rest when we are discussing trail advocacy. We have some work to do to get Class 1 eMTBs legal on all multi-use trails, and this education is part of the solution.
you miss the point about ebikes several downsides 1-massive increase of users on your favorite spots 2-massive increase of complete newbies bad bikers with zero respect because there's zero effort required to ride an ebike your favorite trails and parks will suffer a real invasion of people you really don't want that will slam into you because they have no skill and no control over their ebikes, guess how I know ! the effort and dedication required to go up and down or pedal on rough trails was a barrier for wild casuals, ebikes tore it down and now you have people that really shouldn't be there going at 20mph with no control and I'm talking about 25kph 15mph bikes here, their weight and motor easily transform them into uncontrolled rockets you get massive speed really fast on them I measured on a steep trail going down 0 to 31mph in like 3s no pedaling purely because of the weight of the ebike (pretty heavy alu rental but still)
Yeah go Chris. Tell those skinny little race horses we are Clydesdale horses. I'm old and chunky and the ebike has kept me in the cycling game for longer. I prefer to ride the DH bike at gondola or lift assisted venues as this is an adrenalin rush every time you drop in compared to general cycling.
I just ordered a Shimano EP801 (yt decoy mx), and I've been riding a Gen 2 bosch (trek Rail) for last 4 years. Per the early reviews the EP801 with the latest flash is nearly as strong as the Bosch Race and it can be found in cheaper bikes. I'm looking forward to have app tuning options vs my current bosch.
You wont see pinion until 2026-2027 at the soonest. None of their electronics are U.S. compliant and do not have a support network in place. This is information from US dealers and from pinion.
I recently was in Italy, bought a package to see the Giro d'Italia. 2 stages, and 3 rides. Because I have MS I rode with and ebike, I was the first in 2017, before that only "analogic" road bikes. Now, at least 40% are ebikes. People with disabilities, old people, we need ebikes. They are starting to realize that ebikes are to vilains, they are means to an end!!!
Most of the time I'm riding my MAHLE-equipped gravel bikes without ANY assist. Maybe I'm getting a better workout? BUT when I used to shift into the "granny ring" on my triple-equipped "acoustic" bikes for a steep climb it's LEVEL 1 now. And I don't fear "biting off more than I can chew" for a ride anymore if I'm short of fitness. I just go.. with the assist in reserve just-in-case. The piece-of-mind for this old geezer is priceless!
More and more are switching to Brose as well... even Sram took & rebranded it as its own. Bosch motor broken in Eu takes a month to change, Brose motor took in service done for an hour.
@@sijmes yep, i didnt evem want to mention repairing as Brose motors are repearable for a small amount... there was a video not long ago on embn about it if you need more info.
I am not sure I would agree that the Bosch is a better motor than the Shimano. Currently I have 2 bikes with the Bosch CX performance and am currently investigating the Shimano EP801 with the latest firmware. As both of mine are the G4, I do have to compare this against the latest version Bosch as there are a few differences in the latest Bosch controller. The thing which bugs me about the Bosch is that it is a locked system - meaning you can only run Bosch batteries with their motor and controller. With the Shimano system you can run for example the Trendpower battery as Merida does to give a 750Wh batter with the ability to add a 350Wh range extender. Considering I like to ride 50 to 100km rides this gives the necessary range allowing for the 1000-1500M climbing involved. The new Shimano firmware, combined with their new app seems to give a lot more tuneability than the Bosch app I looked at. I do also think there will be a big of a change up as the new ZF motor possibly being a dark horse. It is funny you mentioned the old Bosch motor with the small chain-ring. While it had some issues, noticeable being a little heavy compared to the Shimano E8000 and having an abruptness when starting out they were a solid motor. Used steel gears throughout rather than most current motors which have a plastic gear somewhere and the bearings were of a size that if they took a little water in they would continure to work for quite a while. The new motors use smaller, narrower bearings with smaller balls which fail almost immediately after ingesting water. I should note I also owned a Spesh with the Brose motor - nice, but I stripped 2 belts in a short time so moved to the Bosch. My advice for any prospective ebike purchaser is to not sweat the small components - you can always change brakes, shifters etc, but to buy what a local store sells to ensure decent servicing and can assist with upgrades and if the case arises - warranty support.
I've got two BAFANG BBSHD KITS and they are bulletproof, How do I know, After having multiple crashes on both bikes fitted with the BBSHD, They always endure the accidents with only a magnet or battery needs to be reconnected, Have NO experience with the other brands.
Totally agree with all your thoughts and findings. Bosch is the way to go now. I’m seeing some crazy bike deal from Specialized, Whyte, Trek, Cube and more in the UK.
Where does that leave Bafang then? An industry titan that cut their teeth 20 yearrs ago. Their production and product development facilities are unrivaled.
Yamaha motors seem just ok. A version of it is used in Giant bikes. Seems robust and reliable but nothing special. Would love to see more updates and innovation from them.
We have 2 Yamaha PWX2 Giant Trance E+1 ebikes brought new at the beginning of 2019. They are a little noisier than other bikes but you get used to it and the good thing is you can hear the motor strain etc and adjust gears quickly. Mine is used harder than my wives one and at over 2000km i had the motor pulled apart and inspected. One of the 2 main bearings was just slightly rough so they were replaced. Also while it was apart the fibre drive cog was replaced with an oem one as a precaution. Total cost including labour was $700 New Zealand Dollars. Also the Panasonic battery was at 95% health. Goes really well but doesnt like a really high cadence.
the inventory problem is because the prices are way too high for what they sell, people who have the means know they aren't worth the price (trash tier forks and shocks on 6000$ bikes) and the ones that don't know don't have the money for such expensive bikes in the 1st place, they also lowered part by part the component tier of bikes over the last 10 years and tought nobody would notice in 2010 a full shimano XT bike I paid 2800$, only the fork and shock were mid-range I upgraded them to fox factory for 1700$ and now this 4500$ bike has the same spec than a 12'000$ 2024 bike it's madness
Good new about access for e-mountain bikes! Here in Colorado, the "haters" are deminishing! Fuita 18 road is open as of last year. Closure is not being enforced in the west (as far as I know). I bought a Santa Cruz Heckler SL for the stealth. So far so good! But I still ride my Mondraker Level R, with big travel and Bosch on mostly moto trails. Hopefully everything will change after the election.
Good to see. I am in Canada and similar things happening here too, except that such trails are open to Class 1 e-bikes (pedal-assisted, speed-limited and no throttle) only. That is ok with me.
I have the trek rail 9.8 and it’s a powerful motor but the motor rattle is horrible! The shop says nothing wrong with it, I can’t stand it all I hear is rattle when descending. I am thinking about selling bike and buy something with the shimano ep801 I guess has no motor rattle? Can someone confirm this
Bosch is probably going to unveil a new generation of it's Cx engine in october 2024, supposedly on 1st oct we will see what's new on them, the 750Wh battery should be replaced by a 800Wh and a line of 400-600-800 batteries, some manufacturers have announced their 2025 bikes and suspiciously in the components sections it's only written : bosch display, bosch battery, bosch motor I also spotted blurred control/display in some 2025 lineup videos something is under NDA for sure
@@EMTBReview the Brose mag 2.2 has been through years of development, while still not completely worry free, they have one of the largest networks for warranty, replacement and report from third party
Don't agree at all! I have 3 ebikes all with the shimano and the system is way better than the bosch.Many km/miles in and no problem. The EP801 is a beast! I have friends that have the latest bosch and prefer the Shimano as well. The app is better is more tunable than the Bosch. Not saying that the Bosch is bad, just saying that is this is pure marketing. Some professional riders using bosch are opening their motors after a few hours in... so Just have fun and enjoy the trails no matter what motor you are in! All the motors will need maintenance.
Thank you very much for your input as it is appreciated. I feel like you would be in a much better position to compare the motors if you owned a bike with the Bosch CXGEN4. The Bosch GEN four is better, because of the following reasons: - The Bosch is faster and stronger. It has more torque iand pulls through a wider range off RPMs. -the Bosch motor has a better torque sensor with higher resolution. This allows it to turn on faster and delivers a more natural riding feel. -Bosch is more battery efficient and it has a couple modes that are automatic, and go from low assist to full assist, allowing less shifting of modes and less dependency on turbo mode. - Bosch now has 600 W our batteries and 750 W hour batteries. And these are compatible with the 250 W hour extender. Thus a rider can have 950 whours if they choose. -The switches and iPhone app of the bosch are better. They have wireless Bluetooth switches and battery indicators that are integrated on the bike frame top tube. They have various display options as well. Shimano is a good and reliable system but they are not progressing fast enough. The mid power options of Bosch, and there services support are key considerations as well.
@@EMTBReview I know the Bosch system very well as I own a orbea wild, gen 4. So I’m in a good position. All motors have good and less good stuff. When I received my Orbea I had to play with the maps because from stock it drained my battery out. This is like talking about brands etc each person and individual has different opinions and it all dependes on the riding style and what matters the most. If you do many climbs long rides you have to play with maps as well. Regarding the battery’s mine is a 900w. No need to have range extenders . All the best !
@@PedroMartinsEnduro I wish my santa and YT cruz had bosch motors! The Shimano EP801 lacks torque and very inefficient ( have a Bullit and a Decoy). Not to mention that the bosch motor is much more quiet. So you have 4 ebikes (3 with shimano and 1 with Bosch)??? Your feedback in interesting because nobody I know (including myself) prefers the Bosch after riding one. The shimano is not bad but the bosch is just that much better IMHO.
Am lean and fit and ride both MTB and eMTB. I've noticed every MTBer who gets mad at me for riding an ebike is an older guy with pot belly and boobs. Seems to me they are projecting their fitness insecurities on me.
Ha, ha... yeah, long-time mountain bikers are the worst. They dream of their glory days 20 years ago and refuse any kind of change even as their riding and health has really declined. At least they ride. What gets me is haters who don't even ride anymore.
Absolutely!!!! That's an issue that puts many bikes out of consideration for the educated enthusiast thinking about the future of their ebike purchase.
If its old stock discounted or new stock my question is DO PEOPLE WANT TO BUY THE BIKES and is the price irrelevant. Maybe the scamming ebike prices of very recent years means people have migrated to other sports and changed their habits. Me personally i will not update my 2019 ebike. If it dies fuck its going in the bin. I will spend more time kayaking and boating with my puppies.
@@paulmaag6958 Yeah, the auto modes actually save battery and increase range. The reason is the rider doesn't become dependent and used to Turbo mode. Boost power is only used when needed.
Here in Germany literally millions of normal e-bikes are used for daily commuting, shopping etc. Almost every brand moved to Bosch in recent years because they are the most reliable. They do it because the numbers tell them to.
