I’ve watched Echo up to episode 2 and it’s ok. I enjoyed her arc in Hawkeye and that series as well. But there’s something more to her as a character than the writers are capable of telling. The concept of a character such as Maya/ Echo is very intriguing to me.
At one point in the first episode I said out loud to myself "if Fisk killed her dad then that is terrible writing" and then like 30 seconds later we found out he did.
4:30 - "We learn about the (insert Native American) culture..." Actually, we're told a fairy tale about a Neolithic people just shy of a hagiography, but never about the lack of hygiene, the barbarism, the peyote use, the slaughter of innocents who got in the way... none of that stuff. There are acres of movies about the noble Sioux; only brief mentions in documentaries about the vicious Karankawa.
If you’re complaining that pop-culture depictions of Native Americans approach hagiography, it seems like you are rather selective in your assessment. And addressing lack of hygiene, surely lack of hygiene in the European settler population was more pertinent to history? Otherwise, I fail to understand what relevance hygiene has to the matter. Likewise, drug use. Drug use is fairly ubiquitous among human populations. Mentioning the fact of drug use in a particular population of humans is not saying very much.
Echo reminds of Miles Mary Sue. Miles is one character representing black people and Hispanic people; Echo is one character representing deaf people and chocolar people. Both are created by lazy, woke people who mixed random minorities together and called them new characters. It's like using a token minority generator.
The moment when she was struggling the most and someone yells at her : " handicapped-American indigenous-inclusive-diverse-strong-deaf-female-lead of color girl magic!" and immidiately she defeats all villains. It was AMAZING!!
Isn't Kingpin supposed to be close to genius level? Sure I guess he could afford to just hire a sign language interpreter to keep around but I think it would be pretty easy for him to learn. And that would show the viewers another layer of his intelligence. And does he have interpreters for other languages around at all times too?
It's really not that hard. If you're around deaf people for any length of time, you normally start picking it up pretty easily. Before our school actually made it a requirement, I'd already picked up a fair bit on my own. Just had to make sure to run it by my boss first before using it--it was great fun for the students to teach me a curse word in hopes I'd use it before finding out what it meant, LOL. Anyway, just a simple first-year conversational ASL class would have been easy for him if he was as smart as they make him out to be.
@@Doxymeister Except that every language has different sign language to go with it. Which should show everyone just how powerful subtitles are. They can cover a plethora of languages wherever the show or movie is released and every TV in the world has a subtitle button. No need to have someone signing on the screen in “one“ language. It’s ridiculous.
@@Doxymeister We worked with a def lady for around ten years. Communication was a struggle, and *nobody* managed to figure out much signing. I guess we're all just too dumb.
This is just the same old story. Disney kills themselves with the double whammy of giving people things didn’t ask for or want, usually involving B level characters or worse, and then doesn’t even bother to do it well. If you’re going to try and get people to get invested with and care about these characters you’re trying to push you have to at least do it competently. They’re just a joke at this point.
@@petethehawk5186 Yh, except being b, c or even d list isn;t inherently bad. Not only that, sometimes a c lister show. Jessica Jones or Luke cage springs to mind, is what you need, if not want. The writing, ideology and assassination of better shows is the fault here.
@@Dc-alpha Disney has done so much damage the entire genre that many have walked away. The problem now is all of these projects and potential projects are in Disney’s hands and they’re incapable of even doing their forced girl power shows and films well let alone one with a male character. But again it’s delivering characters and spending a lot of resources on female characters that nearly no one wants or cares about. She Hulk had a legitimate shot but was insufferable trash, Ms Marvel no one cared about or watched, The Marvels was a soul shattering bomb, Echo now is laughable and will be forgotten quicker than the terrible Secret Invasion that ruined yet another cool male character and then there’s still more coming like Agatha Harkness, Ironheart and god knows what else until they decide they can’t continue to lose money like this and start canceling projects. They’re losing money, fans and not growing subscribers in D+. If anything people are fleeing D+. As far as anything with male characters it’s not a good idea to hold out hope that they’ll be done well even if they wanted to because their writers are hacks.
@@petethehawk5186 Same page. my only addendum would be girl power isn't unwanted. Done just north of okay, Wonder Woman for instance it's fine. Done north of that, JJ season 1 for instance more please.
In Disney's first live action film Treasure Island (1950) Robert Newton convincingly played the one legged pirate Long John Silver with both his pins intact and decades before CGI. Still a wonderful film that made use of actual writers.
"A seafaring man with one leg." Gotta love it. I've read that pirate speak is entirely borne out of that performance. The diction as well as the "aarrgh." The man deserved much more credit.
As someone who saw Hawkeye as the best of the Disney Marvel series’ (and realizing that’s not saying a lot) I was somewhat hopeful for this show. The current capacity for Disney writers to take shows in uninteresting directions boggles the mind.
After watching hawkeye I knew this show would be poop. She was bad and unlikable boss gurl in that show. Thats wasnt going to change. It would be nice if disney used heros not gurl boss Villains.
Dude....I lived around the Choctaw my entire life, this shit makes me laugh...whoever wrote this never meet a real Choctaw Indian...and yes, they use the word "Indian", I have never heard them say "indigenous" or "native", saying that too one is a good way to get your nose broken.
It's like when they tried to make "LatinX" a thing. The people they were trying to be sensitive to hated it. Eventually they gave up. Even the wokest of woke call them Latino now.
I cringed to think that if Daredevil was never on Netflix and Disney produced it first, they would cast a real blind man to play Daredevil and we would end up having a Daredevil that's as bad as this show. I'm very thankful we had Netflix Daredevil to rewatch and remember.
Disney did produce Daredevil first. Just (a) a different Disney and (b) for Netflix release instead of a Disney+ release. Back then Marvel, who was already owned by Disney, had a television department that developed a Daredevil series to be released on Netflix. They hired Drew Goddard and his company to produce it. Daredevil wasn’t produced by Netflix, it was produced by Marvel, ABC and Goddard. Later on Marvel’s tv division was folded into the movie division and the CEO there left, while Kevin Feige got in charge of all things Marvel.
I have read some comic runs with Echo. She once took over the Ronin persona from Hawkeye Clint Barton. She didn't have space Indian powers. She was just a badass ninja who fought the "Hand" ninja clan. I don't know what this show is...
I'm sure the big stinger at the end will be that Kingpin is still alive making the entire show completely pointless other than to introduce the new ultra-diverse female hero.
This is reminding me of Netflix’s Resident Evil series, nothing but feelings in hallways and teen drama. And it sounds like what I predicted it would be when it was being pushed: a shallow virtue signal with no substance.
A Choctaw symbol to place upon that foot! Holy shit, that's bad. How many times is she going to kill Kingpin? And then everyone realizes he isn't dead. Holy Hell.
Just because the character is deaf and the whole list, doesn’t mean the actor has to be. Isn’t this why we can’t get bodybuilders to play superheros. There are real men built like Hulk and Thanos. She may check boxes, but not acting or athleticism.
I don't understand how a character that was so interesting and dynamic in Hawkeye could become so boring in her own series. Who wrote this? Who scripted this? The plot is so convoluted, disjointed and so rambling. No wonder Disney decided to just dump the entire series all at once, because likely no one would watch it on a weekly basis.
Can't remember which channel, but I believe she was working at Amazon and heard they were casting for Hawkeye. She naturally fit Echo's description and auditioned. Not sure if she's ever acted before. That part is cool, for her sake.
I have heard that Marvel wanted to kill the series, but international commitments and contractual obligations required them to show it, so they are doing the best they can to make some money out of it.
How does Kingpin survive being shot in the head? How did he survive all that insane damage from the Hawkeye show? Literally shot with and exploded by arrows and ran over by a car. They explain he got the super soldier serum right?
Hi Chris & Alan and everone,great video, love the chsnnel! If i may.ask a little advice from anyone, please? We want to use a couple of songs in a film, ive been tasked with this, any advice on the licensing procedure? Appreciate any attention anyone may give! Much love all!
The argument that Chris makes about films should be made by the original culture can also be used about the "diversity" forced on European fairy tales by Hollywood.
I she a MAGIC Indian? Because Hollywood loves to make all Indian characters magic. Think of Star Trek Voyager with their Commander Chipotle. He would always conjure up his spirit guide and do like some magic stuff.
I thought the show was good, and dare I say, which isn't saying much given the state of Disney+ shows, it is one of the better Disney+ Marvel series. It is a short 5 episodes (less than a half hour each) with an early Daredevil showing and tons of Kingpin (not dead, btw). Sure the family stuff is dull, and the actress playing Maya (Echo) is extremely expressionless/emotionless, but I wouldn't necessarily blame her since this is her ONLY role she has ever played, leading me to believe it was written that way. On a scale of 1 to 10, with 10 being the greatest thing ever seen... I would agree with the score of 3 On a scale of 1 to 10, with 10 being the greatest Disney+ Marvel has put out... I would give it a 7 Now... if you take Vincent D'onofrio out of the show, 😠🤢, it never gets made.
@@thedarknate08From what I heard, the first episode is mainly just stuff from the Hawkeye series to catch people up on what happened. To my knowledge she „killed“ Kingpin at the end of Hawkeye and my guess is, that’s what is in episode 1 as a fast recap.
@@thedarknate08 The review I saw was convinced they did this to make it easier for people to start with this series. Not sure if such an audience for a pure Disney+ series actually exists.
I thought the show was ok. My main complaint is that Maya is a terrible protagonist. She is extremely selfish and constantly puts her loved ones in danger and that's never portrayed as a bad thing.
So, you have a big bad like Kingpin and you kill him off in episode 1 and don’t replace him with another baddie - so, what’s the point of the show after that?
Writers can't write a better story when they don't respect what they are writing. They have openly talked about how they didn't like the original comic echo's powers and thought they were lame. Netflix showed you can take a B level hero and make an interesting story for them. But that requires writers who put there agenda second to the story. Just compare Jessica Jones to echo
Slap her on the enterprise D bridge with a geriatric picard and Terry Matalis behind the camera, see it do a death star trench run. Then watch it get called a masterpiece by the internet lol.. winner..
Only saw 2 episodes, more than enough to tell me that this series is boring, won’t be watching the rest of the series. Can’t wait to see another series of Kingpin’s henchmen 😂
As to the perceived overacting around her, non-deaf people need to remember that deaf don't just learn sign language, they also learn to read facial expression, body language and positioning, etc.--maybe all that was for the benefit of any possible deaf people going to see it? Anyway, IDK if you could manage to work all that into a super-hero movie, though--if I go see a movie like that, I don't want to have to work at it, I want entertainment. I hope if Graham Green was really in this, that he got a good part, I really like him. Just not willing to wade through a barnyard of sh*t just to see a few minutes of him, though.
It would have been good if not marketed as a Marvel show. Take out "the message" and the "she's in the MCU" angle and its a watchable story. However she makes no sense as a Marvel hero, there's no stakes.
We get 💩 shows like this... And we STILL don't have a live-action Batman TV show... With ACTUAL BATMAN in his prime fighting his rogue's gallery of villains.
I watched until episode 4 and just couldn't force myself anymore. This show was terrible and I feel like this is a disrespect to Choctaw. Maya is definitely not a likeable character. In my opinion, none of the characters are likeable, save her grandfather (the builder). (Watched on Hulu)
How is representing the tribe as inclined towards working for organized crime a good representation of indigenous people?! What the actual F!🤦🏻♀️🤦🏻♀️
I don’t get the sense that Alan rated it any lower because of the source comic. It does however make sense to acknowledge that this character had its own comic just as every other new Marvel production inevitably mentions the same.
This comment is for Alan. We're trying to get past the whole political culture wars in movies, music, and TV, so please don't fall for it by looking for it in everything. We need to get back to just simply entertaining movies. And completely away from the political BS.
