The thing is, the 'Bea Arthur type' IS a character she created. People like to claim she wasn't really acting, she was just being herself in front of a camera. Not true. Rue McClanahan and Bea's own sons have said Bea was an extremely shy, sensitive, nervous person. Betty said that, during breaks, Bea would stand in her place ready to just get back to work while Betty would go out & talk to audience members & play word games with Rue. People misinterpreted Bea's shyness & focus as being cold & snobbish & uncaring, which is something I can relate to, being an introvert myself. People always assume I'm a bitch. I act in community theatre & I'm the same way. When we're backstage, other cast members will be chatting & goofing off. Meanwhile, I'll be standing in a corner running my lines. I do that partly because I'm nervous, but also to avoid social interaction simply because I find it difficult. Ok, I'm rambling now. But my point is, Bea Arthur the woman & Bea Arthur the character type were very different.
@@gavone1980 except there are tales of Bea being a b*tch to the rest of the girls, especially Betty White. There is no cause for that. There’s introverted, and then there’s being a b*tch for no reason. I’m guessing you weren’t a b*tch to your cast mates? When asked what Bea thought about Betty, she called her a c*nt. Yet no one else that has worked with Betty has said anything even remotely similar about her. Rue has also said Bea didn’t like anyone. I think it was much more than just being introverted.
The irony is that Elaine won her first and only Tony after being nominated several times by beating bea Arthur’s one woman show in same category in same year at Tony’s . Both were perfect for what they did .
I'm sure Rue was secretly frustrated with Bea. Here she was only 58 years old with the biggest hit of her career, and now she had to give up her best paycheck and the chance to work with lifelong friends all because Bea was tired and wanted to move on after she already had her own Emmy Award-winning show in the 70's to herself and was done with network TV.
I don't know, Elaine would have been interesting... She has that same mean spirited way about her that Dorothy did. For me, Bea's best thing for "Dorothy's" part, was those faces she would make whenever one of the others made an off handed comment. I don't think Elaine here, would have done those faces quite so well...
Probably true, but Bea was never crass and Stritch was, like the very crass Joan Rivers -- some of us just don't like that kind of humor. Self-denigration like Joan did is okay, but gets tiring and boring. A dirty mouth isn't funny in comedy, but it's amazing how many comedy performers try to use four-letter words in their routines, to shock, I guess, there can't be much other reason!
@@MJLeger-yj1ww Elaine Stritch and Joan Rivers are legends - Bea Arthur was a great actress who had a couple of hit sitcoms. All were international stars and hugely successful. But let's get things in perspective here!
@@MJLeger-yj1ww A dirty mouth isn't funny in comedy? I think Eddie Murphy, Dave Chappelle and virtually every standup out there would disagree. Legends? Come on. Nobody heard of Elaine Stitch. I only remember her as a couple of times being on Law and Order. Bea Arthur was known for doing pretty much anything and everything. But she did blow it, at first Bea Arthur wasn't even interested. But its never a good idea to get on the bad side of any writer who has enough clout to be with the executives at the pilot auditions.
Bea Arthur made the character work because she navigated between toughness and vulnerability so effortlessly. Elaine Strich is a survivor and she is hard to the core. She exorcised her vulnerability in order to survive. That's why she is still with us.
Yet completely forgotten….While GG’s Halloween costumes have sold out!!!! Don’t get me wrong, I’m a lot more Elaine than Bea, but sometimes it’s better to be an original Bea Arthur than a “Bea Arthur type”.
I don't think you could possibly have bettered the casting of The Golden Girls, I have the complete box set and play the show regularly, never tire, its like having 4 dear friends in the house, Bless them ladies forever!
@Robert A. Lofgren Jr. A comment with a 100% percentage. You don't read that percentage in the comments about these vaccines. Nothing about the vaccines is 100%, and if you're dead because of any vaccine, well... You can't prove that either.
She says she blew millions by blowing the audition but as we know and love Elaine , and agree Bea was the only one who could to it right any way...she didn't blow millions , I don't think the show would have been a hit without Bea. Thank goodness Elaine didn't get it
That’s a fantastic point. The show wouldn’t have had the same draw and cult following without Bea Arthur. It would have doubtless still been successful on the strength of Betty and Rue (Estelle was unknown at the beginning and therefore not much of a draw), but not to the extent that it was.
I love Elaine. I think she is wonderful. But the golden girls is my second favorite tv show of all time. I just feel that no one else other than Bea Arthur could have played the role of Dorothy. Her comical facial expressions were brilliant.
Watched her in "Monster In Law" and "3rd rock from the sun" and countless other shows, all the time thinking this woman reminds me of Bea Author. This is not a joke. I did not know she was up to play Dorothy, but every time I'd see her in things I'd say that. I never knew her name. Wow!
True - but there was some poetic licence in her claim to have blown it because of her audition. In fact the role was always earmarked for Bea Arthur - Elaine never stood a chance! Great story though.
It's interesting that Rue McClanahan and Elaine Stritch stared together in the 1997 comedy "Out to Sea" with Jack Lemmon and Walter Matthau. The world is a small place after all.
The writer/creator of Golden Girls, Susan Harris, was a writer on 'All In The Family' and 'Maude'. My guess is that she wrote that part for Bea Arthur and was pissed that the network execs forced her to audition others for the part she created for her friend.
But I don't think The Golden Girls would be as good as it was with Dorothy swearing. Plus, some writers are very careful with their texts and don't want actors to play with it.
Well, the description of the part of Dorothy was described as a Bea Arthur type. There's an interview with Rue Mcclanahan here on YT where she says she called up Bea and told her about the show and told her she should do it. If Susan Harris wrote the part with Bea in mind an actually wanted her for the part. I wonder why she didn't contact Bea herself.
***** Bea may have heard of it. And you may be right about her not being too keen on doing another sitcom. But I don't think Maude had anything to do with it since it ended 7 years before Golden Girls. Bea did a short lived sitcom in 83 called Amanda's By The Sea that only lasted 13 episodes. She may have been leery about jumping into a new TV series so soon.
It would be fascinating if we could get in our time machines and see an episode or two done with Elaine, and contrast the two. I’m sure both would be great, yet different. And that’s when you learn what makes an actor-when you see the individuality, the personal interpretation, they bring to the role.
There are actors and actresses who would make excellent "Next in line" to play a character, but when you know the right person actn the part is the best fit, you just know it fits.
Bea Arthur as Dorothy could never be replaced. I see Elaine as more of a Sophia character but I really think the show was perfectly cast. I'm glad it worked out the way it did. I've seen every single episode at least 4 times. Love those girls!
Bea was great as Dorothy. She consumed that role and made it her own. That being said, Elaine is a wonderful, talented, beautiful spirit, and should not be cruelly judged in any way for her audition, and being herself. She didn't change who she was even though she was told who to be, and she shouldn't have to, I just love her!
Tito true but you have to look at the fact that 50 in 1985 is different than 50 now. Back then 50 meant you were old and over the hill because in older generations, people grew up quicker than now. Nowadays 50 is the new 30, with beauty products and advanced aging serums and people taking care of themselves better, 50 doesn’t mean you have blue curly hair and you’re knitting a cozy anymore.
@@hadihatab3126 Very true. Even more amazing is going back to 1970 when All in the family premiered, Carroll O Connor and Jean Stapleton were in their mid forties and looked 60ish by today’s standards.
Dorothy Zbornak was written with Bea in mind. It literally said in the character description "A Bea Arthur-type." Originally, Bea was not interested in the role. She told Rue McClanahan "Rue, I'm not interested in playing Maude & Vivian meet Sue Ann Nivens" (Betty was originally supposed to play Blanche & Rue Rose, which were both very similar to the roles they played in The Mary Tyler Moore Show & Maude). But once Rue & Betty switched the Blanche & Rose roles, Bea said yes. So no matter who auditioned & how good they were--even if Elaine hadn't cursed, once Bea decided to come on board, she would have been dumped because they wanted Bea all along.
Watched the doc Always at the Carlyle. During the interviews with people who have played at the Cafe Carlyle, Elaine's name came up. The lights flickered & some cameras malfunctioned. Right away Alan Cumming said it's Elaine!
The Golden Girls were one of the shows where the casting aligned with the heavens creating perfection . No one could have been Dorothy other than Bea Arthur . The same can be said for Larry Hagman as JR Ewing and Joan Collins as Alexis Carrington Colby .
That was weirdly enough a show that was a NETWORK idea. They don't often get much credit and quite a bit of criticism, but they pitched the idea to that writing team, which ran with a great idea that pretty much wrote itself (to a point). The odd thing was, that when those saccharine family shows came in after Cosby, the decade was FULL of them. And yet nobody else really even tried to feature a show about older people after that.
Rue McClanahan confirmed that Elaine Stritch was one of the finalists that was considered for the role of Dorothy on "The Golden Girls". However she also mentioned that Stritch sabotaged herself out of the part by swearing and changing the dialogue during the audition process. Rule of thumb for actors: If you want the role, DON'T go changing things unless you're asked to. By throwing in your own words (and swearing as well), you're effectively altering the material on the page. Not a smart move
Susan Harris probably didn't like her for the role because she eyed Bea Arthur for the part from the beginning. Bea was reluctant initially because she was afraid it would be "Maude and Vivian meet the Happy Homemaker". After some convincing from Rue Maclanahan, she reconsidered and the rest is history.
Elaine Stritch was a larger than life stage personality, she also played Elaine Stritch, endlessly. Beatrice Arthur in my estimation was more a character actress, who developed a Bea Arthur "type". Bea was in my opinion a little more of an actress, where as Elaine was more of a personality.
I think Bea had more of a polished persona than Elaine. Bea is like a hot cup of coffee, strong, warm, goes down smooth. Elaine is like a cold beer, slightly carbonated, and gives you gas (burps)...welp, I tried.
Robert W First of all, as many who know Bea Arthur personally would tell you, Bea in real life is actually really shy and sensitive, completely unlike Maude or Dorothy, so she was never playing 'Bea Arthur' on TV. Secondly, there's a difference even between Maude and Dorothy. As a former high school knocked-up, cast away first wife, middle age 'substitute' teacher, there's enough failure in Dorothy that makes her lot more vulnerable than Maude, which the "Golden Girls" often exploited. For instance remember how out of the water Dorothy was in Rusty's Anchor, you wouldn't see that from Maude, if only you care to look
What would have been interesting is seeing if she could pull off Rose. Now that would be acting. Its the voice that gives her a hard time. If people never heard it, a producer of GG said in an interview that she was crying behind a curtain at a break because she couldn't get a scene to work during rehearsal. Thats beyond professionalism. But I've heard that she was as quick witted as her characters.
There was a Golden Girls episode where Dorothy was going to move out and remarry Stan. Debbie Reynolds played the replacement roommate in that episode. I thought that was perfect casting.
I wouldn't want the Golden girls cast any different than it was . Perfectly chosen ! the actor of stan was on maude with beatrice , i remember at least one episode i seen him . he was her boss in an office i believe .
I think I've seen her on the Cosby's. She played one of the Huxtable's children's school teacher, and made Dr. Huxtable write something on the blackboard. I think this is her.
The estates of each of The Golden Girls' will continue to generate revenue until the end of humanity. Susan Harris, too... Genius. Only Bea Arthur could play a Bea-Arthur-type anyway.
My question was why didn't they call her up when Bea left and made her one of Dorothy' s sisters or something? Then the girls could have stayed at Blanche's house instead of going to the Golden Palace?
Well, that was hard to watch. Sounds like she knows she completely blew it and still regrets to this day. I like Elaine Stritch but, having seen Bea Arthur knock the role of Dorothy out of the park, I can't imagine Elaine in the Golden Girls.
Great story but it wasn't CBS, it was NBC. Stritch was a genius but no one can complain about casting the magnificent Bea Arthur. Both were consummate artists, both utterly unique.
In any case, crudeness would not have been allowed for the show. Elaine was just taking a bit of a comedic license here. But from what I understand, "Dorothy's" part was specifically written for Bea. If anything, I think this was cruel to anyone else who auditioned, knowing it was going to Bea anyhow. Why did they even bother auditioning anyone else for it? Elaine here, was doomed regardless of what she would have said at the time...
that's the way the casting circus goes. producers and head execs, even network ceos always push for who they want to see. but ultimately writers are very close to their vision and fight tooth and nail to get what they have in their mind
I like Elaine but I am so so so so so so so glad she didn’t get it. Nobody at all can do Dorothy like Bea. She embodies her, she is her. It’s been such a big part of my life, I can’t imagine anything being different.
I have heard that Susan Harris (the writer of GG pilot) did have a bit of an attitude (or at least ego). Even Betty White mentioned that Susan Harris got angry and "didn't want to have anything more to do with the show" after another writer won a writing Emmy for the first season over her. Harris did write a few more episodes for the show, but my guess is Elaine was right that she did have an attitude.
Can you imagine Bea and Elaine on a sitcom together? Now that would have been a smash! Throw in Archie Bunker as one of their husbands and maybe Dixie Carter as a rich sister and BAMMM!!!!!! Huge audiences would be watching that weekly!!!!! All four are together now..... thanks for the memories .... and the reruns!
The Golden Girls was never meant for CBS. NBC developed the show and their execs gave the go ahead for production. CBS didnt become involved until The Golden Palace in 1992.
Correct, the idea came about from an in-house short parody called "Miami Nice" spoofing a new show "Miami Vice" starring Doris Roberts and Selma Diamond (both on NBC shows) shown to NBC execs. A writer was had his pilot script rejected and one of the execs at NBC asked him to work on an idea for "Miami Nice." He said no, but mentioned to his wife "Susan Harris" who liked it and ran with it. NBC had wanted 40 something women but Susan gave them 60 something women.
Well I loved Bea Arthur as Dorothy and it would not have been quite the same without her. I respect the fact that writers want the originality of their work to shine through and that has to be interpreted and conveyed by the actor or actress. Not everybody can do this but Ms Bea Arthur always seem to do this excellently and this is why she is legendary and all around a classy woman. May Ms. Bea Arthur R.I.P. and know you are missed.
One must always remember that this is scripted, and the emotion is "acted" every night. People get fooled into thinking that these tell-all ladies are feeling their pain 8 times a week. This is brilliantly delivered, nobody is better at it. I just object to Stritch and others "baring their soul" night after night.
I'm sure she regretted that mistake for ever. Apparently she finds it important enough to mention she was asked. She could have played Sophia's sister as a guest star, but I guess the producers never forgave her for being so forward.
It seems Bea and Elaine were often considered for the same part. Dorothy in the Golden Girls and Ursula in Little Mermaid. Elaine kinda blew that audition as well because she was unwilling to follow direction.
im glad bea got it. i could see why they did ask her she could have pulled it off, but bea was strong and assertive, yet funny. i could not see her being that.
A wonderful person,and a great artist.Much missed. However,you can see why she didn't get the part of Dorothy! Rue McClanahan said (in an interview) that she din't only add ONE swear word into the audition script,she added LOT'S lol
Elaine would have been a good second choice if Bea refused to do it. Elaine comes off as a bit more crass than Bea though. Bea was perfect because as dry and sarcastic as she could be, she also brought an occasional softness and sensitivity to the character.
VideoMenu TBH she never had a chance. those casting agents wanted bea Arthur from the start, they had Dorothy pegged as a "bea Arthur type". the part was meant for Bea
I remember her from the Cosby show..I think she played the neighbor that wouldn't take her meds, but she couldn't have been Dorothy Spornak, I have younger coworkers that said they never watched GG because who wanted to watch old ladies, now these same coworkers are catching reruns on hallmark talking about it some of the most hilarious stuff they watched , talking about the GG like its some new show...
