“So you’re the reason I have to do all this bullshit and the world is in shambles?” “Yes but this doll I inhabit is pretty cute” Every single player: *Marry me*
When i eventually go NG+, I 100% want to do this because I really prefer the "no reason" interaction (she seems so amused) but also want the Cursemark dialogue. What order did you do things?
@@OtepRalloma If you want the "no reason" prompt, just ignore Rogier's stuff. Which sucks because Rogier says one of the funnier lines for just telling you stuff which is "Because you're kinda scary"
@@kuma9239 It's only present if you didn't talk to Ranni in the very beginning of the game to get the spirit bell. She's more warm having been acquainted with you. If you only ever see her during Rogier's quest, she obviously isn't aware of you and tells you to leave at first.
@@BlueMagicite This is incorrect. I talked to her at the beginning of the game, and still got the "No Reason" prompt, while also being told by Rogier that I'm scary. The difference here for me is: I never progressed Rogier's quest to find the Black Knife stuff, but still talked to him every time I went to the Roundtable Hold.
"One day on a merry evening, I happened to chance upon them drying on a rock.... Coincidentally of course and taken a snif- I mean a fancy to them, thus I decided it to be my garment from hereon."
That would be in my estimation, because she didn't have him killed, not intentionally. Why would she split the rune? Why would she want to be a puppet/spirit thing when its implied that if only one of them had died they would've been somewhat more whole and not either spirit or flesh. Even the description of the rune makes it sound like it was an accident that two perished at the same time causing it to split. Unfortunately, that leaves us with the much more annoying question of who actually had Godwyn killed? And why? Especially when these assassins are noted to have a connection with Marika, but theres a missing link of why they would kill someone so important. It could be inferred it was to eliminate rivals before the shattering but it doesn't quite make sense. Even looking at the lore of the ringleader and her daughter doesn't give anything away, but my bet would be on Marika, but that doesn't quite add up either as even the wiki (source i have no idea) says that it was particularly devastating to her, especially since she was the one who did away with death in the first place. Theres a missing piece here and for the life of me i don't know what it is. Which is rather annoying considering the rest of the story is pretty straightforward as far as souls games go. Edit: unless theres some fuckery where they wanted to make him the god of death all long, but the how and why is a bit up in the air. that's really the only thing i can come up with. Edit 2: Marika didn't do it, Godwyn's death is what caused the whole shattering the first place as Marika smashed the ring out of grief. Also the person who had him killed could've been the dusk eyed goddess or whatever her name is, the leader of the apostle guys but theres no hard evidence unfortunately, we just know it can't be Ranni or Marika.
@@climax050 could've sworn it was black knife tiche who killed godwyn. Eta: Tiche was one of the assassin's who on the night of the plot, imbued her black knife with the rune of death and slew godwyn the golden. She was the daughter of the black knife ringleader, Alecto, and was killed protecting her mother during their flight from the capital (the description of her spirit summon)
I'm confused at this one, because the item description of the Rune of Death carved into her body makes it sound more like an accident, rather than that she meant to kill Godwyn or herself. Maybe she only planned to do one of those things?
@@climax050 I think the idea is that though she stole the rune of death, she herself didn't give the order. The curse mark appeared on them both that night, and with the way that the Black Knives worship the entity that is Destined Death, I wouldn't be surprised if they went after Godwyn only because he was marked and because they're basically religious assassins. That said, Godwyn was supposed to be the first to die, and Ranni killing herself was meant to get in the way of that I think, but unfortunately it instead led to them both technically dying at the same time, and each of them only losing a part of their being. Destined Death still technically got them both that night, but not in their entirety. Though she may have stolen the rune for herself, I'm not sure if she herself would have given an order like that, nor could I imagine that she would really be able to, given that she herself was marked for death as well. It seems much more plausible to me that it was willed into action by the entity that the Black Knkves worship, the one who provides them with their black flames, and so as loyal subjects they just sort of did it.
@@jst5280 i think you’re combining two separate categories of death. the black knives worship a more ancient form of death from a time before the erdtree and elden ring, when deathbirds carried the dead to their final resting place. this form is symbolized by the black flame. destined death, on the other hand, is maliketh’s domain and is directly tied to a fragment of the elden ring and is symbolized by black and red. note that the godskin duo in farum azula uses the black flame while maliketh’s death magic is not the same. farum azula is an important key to understanding the divide.
I'm around 50 hours in now and... Near as I can tell... Once upon a time somebody forgot that hands have five fingers, somebody else was too embarrassed to correct them, it turned into an inside joke, snowballed, and now the world is kinda screwed.
I have 315 Hours played so far and I still have very little idea what's going on. What I've learned is REALLY good but there's still so many pieces of this puzzle yet to be found.
So, here's my interpretation of Ranni's plans and her cooperation with the Black Knives: We know, because Ranni tells us in this conversation, that it was she who stole a fragment of the Rune of Death and used it to forge blades which were capable of fully slaying a demigod. So, I do believe that at least at one point, she and the Black Knives were working together. However, I think that Ranni tricked the Black Knives, which is (at least) one of the reasons they hunt her throughout the game. The Black Knives intended on using their newly-forged blades to slay Godwyn - possibly as a specific attack on Marika as most of the Knives were Numen women, like Marika, though this being their motivation is unconfirmed as far as I know - and Ranni used this plan to enact her escape from the two fingers and the greater will. We know, because the cursemark's lore text tells us, that it was the fact that two demigods died at the same moment that caused it to break in two. Without this paired death - as far as I can tell - if Ranni had used the Death Rune's fragment on herself, she would have been subjected to its full power and simply died, both in body and soul, rather than escaping. So, I do think that Ranni did intend for at least on other demigod to die, though I don't think she herself targeted Godwyn - that was entirely the plot of the Black Knives. Because Godwyn died at the same time as her, the cursemark split, and each of them bore on half of its power - Godwyn died in soul, allowing Ranni to survive the process, while Ranni died in body, allowing her to flee her empyrean flesh and thus escape the power of the two fingers. This is the most coherent organization of events and motivations that I've been able to put together. If anyone has any thoughts, or if I've got something wrong, please chime in!
Spoilers" The only question that I have in context of your idea is how it meshes with with the words of Marika that Melania tells you at the Third Church. It's phrased in such a way that it makes it seem that it was Marika that specifically removed the grace from Gordrick and the others that would become the tarnished. Maybe whatever effect the night of black knives would have on him made him no longer suitable as a Consort? In brief I guess the question is what the relation between him being divested of grace and becoming tarnished, and whatever form of death he experienced during the knight of the black knives did to him.
@@Robin-dx5gq you seem to be confusing three figures here - Godrick, Godfrey, and Godwyn. (it's understandable, given the similar naming convention) Godfrey was the first Elden Lord, Marika's husband, and the figure that Marika is speaking to in the dialogue Melina relays to us at the 3rd Church. We do battle with him just before initiating the game's final encounter. At some point, he lost the grace of the Greater Will, was stripped of his title as Elden Lord and was banished from The Lands Between, becoming the first of the Tarnished. Godrick the Grafted is the Lord of Stormveil castle, and (generally) the first shardbearer the Tarnished will defeat. He is a member of the Golden Lineage - Godfrey and Marika's bloodline - but it is, as we are told, a distant relation. Godwyn the Golden was the eldest son of Godfrey and Marika, and was slain using the godslayer blades on the night of black knives. He perished in soul only, due to Ranni's interference and simultaneous body-death, and now exists as the Prince of Death, buried beneath the Erdtree in the Deeproot Depths.
It's my contention that, as numen women associated with Marika, the Black Knives were actually sent by Marika to kill her own son, in part of a greater plan to shatter the Elden Ring. I believe that Radagon (pro Order) and Marika (anti Order,) being the same entity, are both able to order these assassins around, and that's why we see contradictory behavior from them. The Night was clearly a strike against the Erdtree, and yet afterwards they seem to be hounding Ranni and killing her followers for assisting in her betrayal of the Order. Basically, Marika has a change of heart at some point, knew where the Rune of Death was and how to get it, and wanted all the demigods loyal to the order dead... And that's when clever Ranni comes into the picture, who is skilled with the magic necessary to make the god killing blades from the Rune. So she makes the weapons, knowing what they'll be used for, but secretly keeps one for herself to suicide at the same time the murder happens, thus co-opting the Night for her own benefit. Marika also gets what she wants, because Ranni takes all the fall if her magic is discovered. It's also very possible that Ranni came up with the plan to begin with, maybe Marika simply asked for help rebelling and Ranni proposed using the Knives. Tl;Dr Marika and Ranni both were manipulating each other on the Night of Black Knives, and both technically got what they wanted... Except I think Marika wanted Godwyn's full death, not half death .
@@Flynnicus You could be right, as Marika initially gave Maliketh the death rune to protect, as she wanted to be rid of destined death. However Maliketh's remembrance states that he was betrayed by Marika, meaning she could have stolen it back, essentially ignoring the one job she gave him.
Pretty sure Godwyn's death is a result of the rune of death requiring both a body and soul for one death, so instead of killing herself completely, she cheated so to speak by killing Godwyn's soul and her body. Well, rip Godwyn, you'll live on as a weird octopus thing I guess.
@@colorpg152 she did it to free people from the supposed greater will. The demigods were already ruining things before hand, she just help get the end result of meddling.
If you return to Rogier, he then tells you to enter her service, and then you can return to Ranni and do her quest as normal, but with some different dialogue. Really interesting stuff! She talks about how "someone looking for the cursemark is bound to be interesting", and wishes you "good luck on your hunt"
Dude's a bitch. Blaidd and Iji kill multiple Black Knife Assassins. We kill countless of them, Ringleader included. How did that little fellow get absolutely murked by them?
@@TheStraightestWhitest he was assassinate by all of them? Lmfao what? You try fighting a dozen black knife assassins ambushing you. You also kill the elden beast so I don’t think comparing your power to another is a valid argument.
@@TheStraightestWhitest Because Blaidd and Iji knew they were coming? The world wasn't destroyed when Godwyn died. If you were just walking down the aisle at a grocery store and someone stuck a knife in your back, is how tough you are really a qualification that comes into play? It was an assassination, not a gladiator fight.
@@Kessekom There's absolutely no reason to think Ranni has any positive morality whatsoever, and heaps and piles to think she's vile and evil. At absolute best you can say she had good motivations, but LOTS of villains have good motivations. Shoot, Gwynn had good motivations in Dark Souls and that doesn't stop the community from deciding he's the only bad guy. But its pointless. She's cute, she's friendly, and she gives you the moonlight sword. Vaati will cement her as the true protagonist within a month.
No matter what the past really was, all we know is when everything is over, Ranni does invite you to leave the land together as what she told you. Ranni and her supporters, including Jerren, have been acting consistently and being honest with you throughout the game.
@@Mnemonicjohnny Seluvis himself is a puppet, believe it or not. You can find his master who is masquerading as a merchant. Gina or something like that.
@Mundanus This isn't true. Ranni lies to you when you first meet her (if you did) in the church of Elleh at night and tells you she is the witch Renna, concealing her identity. How's that for honesty?
I can’t believe I only just now put together that the corpse at the top of Liurnia’s tower is Ranni after seeing this comment. It’s got the curse mark and everything.
Keep in mind that when you find Blaidd driven mad after Ranni leaves, there's three assassin corpses at Ranni's tower. They want her dead. Blaidd tries to fight off whatever they did to him, shouting how he'll never hurt her, but then goes insane and attacks you on sight. If Ranni was with the assassins they wouldn't be hunting her. They're with Marika. Ranni is anathema to Marika's goal. Marika wants eternal rule. Ranni wants to free everyone from rule.
It's pretty clear that Marika decided to try and cut the Greater Will's control of the world, despite her own condition as the Godess Queen. That's why she shattered the Elden Ring, after all, and that's why The Greater Will summons Radagon and not her to defend the status quo. As I understand, Ranni's ending fullfils even if not necessarily intentionally, the will of Marika by freeing the world from the influence not of the Greater Will, but of other Outer Gods as well.
Okay, trying to piece together some of the things I picked up from several comments, this is where I'm at: 1.) Marika tries to free the world from the Greater Will by destroying the Elden Ring, fully aware this might cost her her status as Queen Goddess. 2.) The plan backfires as the Shattering causes infighting between her children, the demigods, and war breaks out. 3.) As punishment, the Greater Will imprisons her, but keeps her alive in order to maintain control of the situation. 4.) Ranni tries to finish what Marika started and makes a deal with Godwyn, to steal the Rune of Death from Maliketh, or rather servants of her/the Greater Will who wield its power, the Black Knives. 4.) They decide to split the power of the Rune of Death. Ranni gets to keep her soul, Godwyn gets to keep his body and become the Prince of Death aka prince of those who live in death, all the soulless husks like him. Both can escape from the Greater Wills influence as a result. 5.) Greater Will gets wind of this plan and sends out the Black Knives to intervene and kill Godwyn at Stormveil Castle. He somehow gets away and flees to Deeproot Depths. 6.) Ranni manages to intercept some of them while they're searching for Godwyn and imprisons them in the Evergaeols. Manages to steal a fragment of the Rune while she's at it. 7.) She forges a knife of her own and the two complete the ritual. The remaining Black Knives flee to various catacombs, maybe in hopes of finding ways to reverse the undeath that occurs as a result. 8.) The Greater Will, desperate to regain control of the situation and reforge the ring, whose pieces have now been scattered across factions, forces Marika to extend her grace to the Tarnished, so that one of them can do their bidding. This is where the player comes in. The player now has the choice to do as they are told by the Two Fingers/Greater Will or dig deeper and find that there is an alternate solution.
@@donmarelio You have some events out of order. First, the fragment of the Rune of Death was stolen. Second, Godwyn's soul and Ranni's body were killed with the Death imbued Black Knives. Tiche dies protecting Alecto's escape after they kill Godwyn. Alecto is imprisoned at some point after. Third, Marika shatters the Elden Ring. Fourth, Radagon tries to repair it (and fails). Fifth, war. That's the mostly clear order of events. Motivations are less clear. It's said Marika shattered the Ring in grief, but then Radagon tries to repair it. Ranni clearly wants to separate herself from the influence of the Greater Will, but did she originally intend to die a complete or partial death? Also, is the Age of Stars primarily for her own benefit, or everyone's? Etc, etc, etc.
@@bluntlyhonest6803 no its better because you loved someone because of their personality, not their appearance. Would you love a possessed doll just because its beautiful? Men are simple, dont overcomplicate it by saying shes a child when you know shes basically a god older than you.
Ranni's sass always kills me, like she wants to always sound regal and ethereal but the tarnished can get on her nerves enough to make her give up the charade occasionally
I think she's lying, it's a pretty common tactic to pretend to volunteer truth in one thing that you know the person is already aware of, then using that gained credibility as a smokescreen for future misinformation. I think she 100% intended to shatter the cursed mark into two parts, thus trapping her soul and killing her body freeing herself from the two fingers will.
definitely agree. One doesn't go through all that planning and giving knives to assassins and then "accidentally" kill yourself the same night in a way that conveniently alienates you from the Greater Will without sending you to the afterlife.
@@Rakshael she did it on purpose but only so she could kill herself bc she didnt want to be an eucaryan or whatever its called and she didnt want to be next in the royal family and become ruler of the system she didnt support, she only wanted to rid herself of the born rights, the shattering was marikas doing and the black knife assassins that killed godwyn were not sent by her, they acted upon themselves
@@raw_penguin2316 "the black knife assassins that killed godwyn were not sent by her, they acted upon themselves" well debateable. They might have acted upon themselves, but Ranni was the one who enchanted their weapons with the rune of death. Thats like selling a nuke to a terrorist organisation and saying I have nothing to do with what will happen next.
Consequences of Ranni's actions: - Blight of Death literally corrupting everything. - All out warfare between the gods. - Shattering of the Elden Ring. - Bestboy Godwyn turning into a vegetable. - Lands Between becoming a hellscape. Community: rAnNi iS bEsT gIrL.
@@Slowpoke3x in wich worlds her « freedom » is more important than literally not turning the worlds in a apocalyptic wastelands ? Freedom in « « , because it’s not like she wasn’t free or that the Greater Will forced her into slavery or commit reprehensible act , she legitimately screwed the whole words because she have authority issue
@@mohamedlababidi9042 if you watch this you will understand why fighting complete control is worth it. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-1F1YyDPZLX8.html
she didn’t shatter the elden ring though, it was marika. She hoped that by breaking the elden ring she could have a chance at resurrecting godwyn which didn’t happen. So it’s her fault everything went to crap
It's a shame Godwyn was the one who died for her plan, he seemed pretty decent ending the war with the dragons peacefully (imagine if Mohg got offed instead?). Ranni is mostly in the right trying to throw off the Golden Order considering how it uses force to dominate every into adherence, but she has enough deviousness in her manipulations to leave you questioning how much altruism is really there. Still, she holds to her promise to leave the lands between once the Golden Order is dealt with, leaving the people of the Lands Between to find their own paths without the domination of the demigods. I just wish we got a reaction to Blaidd's death from her. It probably was inevitable that he would lose himself to the Two-Fingers, but I wish I could hear some sadness that her adopted brother died after trying to serve her for so long.
There is no order without force. Someone has to be in charge. Melina wants you to become Elden Lord, you disgrace her and her sacrifice by cheating on her with Ranni. Ranni is a snake, she leaves TLB at the mercy of Astel and beings like it
@@Jim-pq9pm i thought of the age of stars ending was us leaving the fate of the world to the people and the tarnished and rani went to the moon protecting the planet from more outer gods coming in arresting them outside the planet just like Radahn did just without golden order :/
She's telling a lot of truths, but omitting important details. I think she did steal the Rune of Death, but she didn't steal it from Maliketh, she stole it from the Black Knives themselves. The numerous imprisoned assassins around Liurnia tell me that she had intercepted them as they were either on their way to or from killing Godwyn, killed Tische, and used her knife to kill her body before the cursemark on Godwyn had been completed, allowing her to exist as a spectre unbound by the Two Fingers or the Greater Will.
I think the lynchpin is that she didn't steal the Destined Death Maliketh gave it to her for Marika Betraying him. That's what I'm starting to think after seeing the woman with the 3 wolves statue in Maliketh's room in Farum Azula. I'm still trying to sew the details together but it's looking like a plausible narrative thread.
Thank you I was having a hard time finding this part of the story a lot of you tubers seemed to have let rogier die so they didn’t let the story line progress
@@boonami5105 No sadly I even went down to where his bloodstain is while he is still at the church in stormveil, sadly interacting with the bloodstain just removes him from the church and puts him in the infirmed state at roundtable hold after you defeat Godrick.
His death is scripted. Keep going back to roundtale as you go through the game and he'll die (of illiness/old age? Something) at some point. Also he doesn't have to die for this. Just the part about him telling you about the black knives. Did you even go to the tomb to kill that assassin for Fia after Rogier tells you about it?
I've seen people wondering why there were multiple knives imbued with Death if Ranni only intended to kill her flesh but looking at the description of multiple objects, Marika not only was allied with the Black Knives but was the one who betrayed Maliketh. Presumably stealing Death or letting Ranni steal it (bonus point for the deniability it afford to Marika) for her own end. It's possible Ranni only made one knife for her but her research/notes were stolen and used to arm the Black Knives. Or if the Knives where originally under Ranni before betraying her for Marika, then she may have simply made more blade as a defence. Also, from the intro, it look like Godwyn's death happened after Marika shattered the Elden Ring, so maybe his murder of the soul was to tie up the loose end he had become in some way(Edit: I got it wrong, as someone pointed it out in the replies, Rogier mention it happened before the Shattering but it honestly raise even more question considering Marika's involvement in the stealing of Destined Death and the rest) . The whole thing is a mess and we don't even have half the pieces to make sense of what happened. I'm not even sure we got a tenth of an explanation for Marika breaking the Elden ring. But even with her involvement in that mess, Ranni's ending may be the best one for the world: The Greater Will and Marika are made powerless. The whole thing about the senses is about putting it away from people where they can't be influenced by it, tying into the loneliness as people will lose something to guide them but will be free in exchange, that kind of thing. Seriously, it's kinda hilarious seeing people take her dialogue literally when Ranni speak in such a flowery and obviously metaphoric way. Like the 1000 years voyage into fear doubt and loneliness, again, feel just like her fancy way of saying the path forward will be long and hard and without obvious guidance. (And maybe even Those Who Live In Death will be potentially fine without putting the world in a fog) Compare that to put back in charge the system that ended making the mess you had to clean up (with the default ending), after what they have done (Greater Will and Marika) is really not a good idea. While with The Perfect Order end, it's basically making religion the one way to live and even if it does make the gods just as accountable as mortals were (which is nice), it's not enough to justify one way of life upon everyone in an even more extreme point than before the Shattering. (Don't think why I have to explain why burning the world and going shit-midas are bad)
@@lotusinn3 Like I said, the intro give the impression Godwyn died after Marika shattered the ring. It goes Shattering>Marika goes missing>Godwyn dies. Looking around a bit, feel like the best we got is really just wild guesses not helped by the relation between Radagon and Marika.
@@lotusinn3 She did. The Elden Ring, however, was already incomplete; long before she shattered it entirely apart, she had removed the rune of death, making herself incapable of dying. The rune was then placed in Maliketh's safekeeping, but it, or a piece of it, was stolen by Ranni. Shoggoth got it wrong that the Black Knives were ever in service to Marika; they were an order of Numen women brought together by Ranni, who then used the Rune of Death to create the knives. I have no clue where people are getting the idea that there should have only been one knife. It makes no sense to go gunning at a god with a single knife. Much better to have a Myriad of Black Widows wielding toothpicks of instant die. She then commanded them to kill Godwyn, while also using a knife on herself. This created two halves of the Cursemark of Death, which took Godwyn's soul and Ranni's flesh. The theory is that Cursemarks were the result of Ranni cheating death, as she needed to die only in body. To preserve her spirit and cheat death, she broke the wheel of the Cursemark in half by effectively slaying two demigods at one moment, letting Godwyn take the spiritual fall while her body alone was annihilated. I believe the "close ties" between Marika and the Numen is that Marika was a Numen. She came from far beyond the Lands Between, and likely brought her kin with. Ranni, as an Empyrean, was likely acutely aware of that fact, and employed the Numen with the authority of an Empyrean and adoptive descendent of Marika. In another video by BanditGames, (which is also where I get the Cursemark theory) it's thought that Ranni is the result of Radagon alone and has no relation to Rennala via blood or genetics, so it's even likelier that she herself had true Numen blood and ancestry. Ranni did this to garner power for her purpose of bringing the Dark Moon Outer God into power, and destroying the Golden Order. I can't explain why the Black Knives, assuming they were Numen, were inclined to assist in this goal, because at that point it would become baseless and redundant speculation.
@@Indyrael I'm pretty sure Melina is the body she mentioned discarding. With the curse mark carved into it? The mark by her eye that she's to line up the the on on Ranni's doll body?
@@spottedslash4256 to have an advantage over one’s enemies it’s important to have a tight lid on your jar of secrets. Especially if your enemy is the Two Fingers and the Greater Will. They want her dead. We learn that much from her and Morgott.
@@osiristheexile5457 that's the problem. The lack of trust. She's the manipulative puppeteer type. The one who enjoys being the smartest in the room and hates it when there is someone as smart or smarter around her. I don't enjoy those games she plays.
@@thedarkderp2520 She didn't want to talk to you then, til you kept persisting on talking to her in her doll form . Again she didn't think someone would be tenacious as to keep talking to a doll. She's so dodgey and secretive. I honestly couldn't trust someone like that.
So it was all her fault; the Shattering, the war, the thounsand years of putrefaction, and Queen Marika's confinement; all that because of her!!!!dude, she would be a great waifu, but still, she ruined the world for everyone, as Lord Gwyn did with his "age of fire".she is one of the worst beings in the lands Between.
Honestly this still is just one side of the picture. We have no clue what the real goal of the two fingers and the Greater Will is, so there's a pretty big chance they had something bad planned that explains the motivation behind Ranni doing what she did. This would tie in with lots of other things like Godfrey getting banished after he finished defeating the outer enemies. High chances the two fingers were afraid he would find out about something once he can put more of his attention inward. There is 100% some tie-in with all of this and the three fingers as well, I think they are the key to figuring out these parts of the lore. Personally I think the three fingers used to be good and opposed the two fingers, after which they (and possibly their "master") were locked away and went mad.
people be telling you ranni is manipulating you to her end while she just deadass tell you the truth right at your face even if you dont know about the plot, then warn you about serving her AND tell you not to commit yourself to her in the darkmoon ring's description she's literally the most no-bullshit character in the game
God I wish there was a "fuck everything" ending where you defeat radagon and just walk away leaving the Elden ring shattered and unable to be restored and just let the world die like it diserves.
Ranni: "Yes, I am the main villain of the game who is responsible of the state of the world as you see it. Yes, you will be my minion, because you can't but help to simp for me."
She even tells you her plan is to just leave after establishing an order, meaning that the Deathroot plague that continues to spread won't even be resolved.
There's a lot of moving parts that people are forgetting. Which should be expected given it's a FromSoftware game. There's a lot to unpack lore wise and none of this stuff is isolated enough to make definitive theories and statements without bringing up a LOT of other stuff. I'm certainly being swayed that Ranni never meant to kill Godwyn and the Black Knives simply went rogue. Why? Not entirely sure. What faction are they really from? Can't say for certain. But there's a lot to go over and it's hard to say how much we actually know based on item descriptions and what we've yet to actually piece together from it all
Could they have somehow been influenced by Shabriri? I haven't seen anyone mention how Shabriri could want this: 1.) Shatter ring. (2.) Corrupt tarnished. (3.) Have them do your bidding and bring about chaos to The Lands Between
@@TheOkayCommenter It's hard to say. Many of the factions in Elden Ring all seek relatively the same thing which is either restore the Golden Order or do away with it entirely. The difference comes in how and what specifically they plan to do once that end goal is reached. Destined Death being a major factor for some and simply slaying gods for others. Shabriri is a special case. Along with the Three Fingers. The Frenzied Flame itself is a massively chaotic force set to destroy all existence so I don't think Shabriri had anything to do with the Black Knifes. The only real force of potential manipulation we've seen from this faction is I believe Vyke(?). Whoever the Tarnished knight that was burned by the Three Fingers. Which lore wise, I don't think he became a tool for them because they could only burn the frenzy into his armor. I think the lore states it changed him but he managed to walk away without being forced into the path of the Lord of Frenzied Flame. Meanwhile we can do it if we have no armor on when trying to go to the Three Fingers which likely alludes to the idea that the Fingers of Frenzy need to actually make physical skin contact to have someone be their Lord. Likely to transfer the power or something. In truth, I think the Black Knifes betrayed Ranni's intentions and may have been convinced by the Godskin Apostles to kill Godwyn as they were after the rune of death. I also believe that it's possible that the Black Knifes may be albunuerics but actually successful ones. Those created beings end up losing the use of their legs over time so that could shoot a hole in that theory yet we find Black Knife armor and actual enemies in the mountains where an old village of albunuerics are(I swear that's misspelled but I'm not rolling with it). There's really just too much lore to comb through and this comment is long enough but to sum up, I don't think the Frenzied Flame had anything to do with Godwyn's death. Who knows really. The lore is dense and only some have managed piece a few things together yet even they can't escape from referring to most of their ideas as just theories
What if Godwyn was in on it? I would assume it'd be pretty hard for a bunch of undead to restrain a demigod against his will while the Golden Order was still in full force. And he became the Lord of Death aftewards and is now being worshipped by Those of Live in Death, so he definitely got something out of it. Ranni was slain that night out of her own free will; hell, she participated precisely because it was the only way to discard her mortal flesh and cut her ties with the Two Fingers. Who's to say Godwyn didn't have similar motivations?
@@TheOkayCommenter but at the same time who tf is shabriri????? i imagine he has something to do with the frenzied flame as i heard about him when he took over yura and blabbered about it.
I know some important things are being said but I'm 70% sure both the player character and Ranni are thinking, "Well one of us going to have to change."
There's a weird logical fallacy I'm seeing in the comments. So the blades were made for her to off herself, but Godwin got hit too? Why did she make multiple blades only for herself? Was a team of soldiers going to all stab her at the same time, maybe set them all on strings to synchronize? Wouldn't an intelligent wizard know you'd only need one weapon? Think about it. If you were going to off yourself and decided to make the weapon, would you make one or 12? What the hell are you gonna do with the other 11, you're about to be dead...
I think it's funny how everyone does these mental gymnastics to defend the evil fungus ladies actions, SURE uh-huh, I'm totally in agreement that she most certainly never planned on killing the other lords at all, not at all, oh these 12 black Knives? Oh don't worry about them, they're all just for me, don't you worry
@@punishedbrak4255 the black knife armor literally says they are allied with marika. You're the one doing all these mental gymnastics to "prove" that ranni is evil 😅 Here dialogue in her ending is mistranslated in the game btw. Go read the accurate translations to know whats really going on.
I think we are going to get 2 DLCs. One based on the night of the black knifes and Godwyn/Prince of Death and one with Miquella awaking from his slumber.
Man, so many Ranni simps in the comments lmao, i even saw some dude calling her the hero of the story, guys there is no heroes in elden ring. Go outside touch grace and get some maidens for gods sake
@@truongtang446 Same here, I had accepted her quest already, then I found the knife prints and took it to Rogier who told me about Ranni. I went back to her but never got this prompt and then Rogier died a bit later.
@@jauharal-rozaq6660 No, Rogier will then ask you to join her so you could learn. And Ranni accepts it wholeheartedly, claiming nothing is wrong with a well thought scheme.
200 hours in the game and I haven't seen half of these questlines. I need to play with a wiki up, I swear. These are too complicated for me. I just like to smack things with a big ole sword.
It's made for you to check -maybe not- guides but at least speak about it with others players, like here :) No shame about a guide btw, it's veeeery tricky to see it all
they're too easy to miss because they're pretty much just random places you need to go in specific orders before doing certain bosses that lock you out of the questline in a specific run. It's problematic just how often this will happen over any given run, imo.
To get this secret dialogue you need to talk to rogier about ranni I don’t know the exact steps but basically do rogiers quest before meeting ranni and you will be able to get this dialogue and rat out her killing godwyn
Now that I have seen some things in lands between, This doll entices me not a jot. Some of the waifus here are just messed up. The only once worth fighting for are not even mentioned. What a sad state of affairs.
I'm pretty sure Ranni not only commanded the Black Knives, but still does at the time of the games events. If you complete War Counselor Iji's storyline, the one where he realises he's betrayed Ranni by imprisoning Blaidd, he is found later to have been slain by Black Knives, their bodies surrounding him, and his own engulfed in black flame.
Well, that whole black flame thing was a bit weird to me though, because the Black Knives don't use black flame, they use red energy just like Maliketh. Godskin Apostles, however, do. So from what I could tell, it was less the Black Knives killed Iji, and more a roaming Apostle strolled up and managed to kill not just Iji, but also a group of Black Knives who tried to defend him. Blaidd went mad and killed the Black Knives around him and Seluvis... didn't have anything special about his death, which I find perfect for his self-aggrandizing character. I could be missing something, but that's just what I pieced together.
@@macnamaryb7773 This is one of the most interesting theories I've seen so far. Another detail to add: The Godskins once controlled Destined Death, but Marika and Maliketh together defeated them and took it from them, and sealed the "source of their power" away. Maybe a Godskin was trying to find information that would help it regain the power they lost? Additionally, I don't think the Black Knives are on Ranni's side. At least, not anymore. She has their ringleader imprisoned, although that could be a secret that none of them know. Maybe Ranni has her being held ransom, or faked her death in order to take full control over the Black Knives. There isn't anything special about Seluvis' death. He is either killed by Blaidd once Blaidd figures out what Seluvis' plan is, or killed by his own puppets.
Iji never said that. The black knives went after him because they were trying to find Ranni and the best way to do so is to find her agents. Black knives also target blaidd and seluvis. Near the end of the quest, ranni tells you to tell blaidd and iji that she loves them. Why would she say that if she plans to kill them? If ranni really controlled the knives, why didn't she send them after radahn? Why didn't she employ them to explore nokrom?
I don't care if the waifu is evil. Gotta get me some Dollussy. Besides would you trust your fate to an eldritch being that look like fingers with hair.
Well, it's possible that she's serving an eldritch being that's basically Flora the Moon Presence, so I think I'll prefer the fingers(but hole) or maybe the Formless Mother, I mean bleeding is rad, Mogh is kinda of a mad cunt, but Miquella seems like a competent ruler
One thing I don't get is why Ranni doesn't seem to acknowledge you beating the shit out of her mother. She seemingly intervenes during the Rennala fight during the half way mark, essentially calls you a scumbag, and then when you meet in her tower she doesn't really mention it at all.
I think it was also a set enchantment like a security system that Ranni set up to keep her safe along with that carian knight. It would explain why the Cuckoos just imprisoned Rennala instead of trying to kill her. They probably tried and got wrecked. Ranni also probably appreciates you getting her mother to stop rebirthing random people
"You must have some business to come all this way" Ma'am I literally just wandered in here by chance. I had no idea you lived here. Thanks for the bell, by the way.
Interestingly all she really confesses to here is that she made the weapons out of Destined Death. No discussion about why Godwyn was chosen instead of Radahn who is and was then a clear and present obstacle to her goals. Or why/how she got the Black Knives to do it, even though they clearly hate her and kill her friends.
Radahn was stated to be the strongest empyrean combat wise. So going for Godwyn in Leyndell when he was alone there makes sense. At the time I think Marika who is Radagon were at war with the Academy of Raya Lucaria whilst Godfrey was warring with the giants and their fell god. Perfect opportunity there.
Radahn would kill all the black knives and probably her, not to mention he loyal army and popular support. There was no way she could attack Radahn, so she chose the one that let the guard down the most.
Ohhh shit, so the body on the top of the Divine Tower were we get the curse mark, it’s indeed her, she was tall as fuck and redhead as well. Interesting!!!!!!
both her quest and fias quest make a lot more sense if u start them by using rogier questline like this by giving him the black knife print. many of the ranni quest line guide videos instruct you to get the cursemark of death even though it is not at all required fr her questline or to get her ending. you should enter her service, give her the finger slayer blade(from nokron which can be accessed by killing radahn) so she that she can leave to kill the 2 fingers and u get the miniature ranni doll, kill baleful shadows(to get the key to the chest beside rennala which has the engagement ring), astel, meet her in the underground part of cathedral where she slays the 2 fingers and u can get engaged to her, basically completing her questline. ofc, u also need to talk to her doll at some grace sites in the underground cities whenever the prompt is available. her questline is basically there to make u explore the underground cities imo or may be vice versa. it took me like 150 hours, almost 20 hrs of them stuck on mohg and malenia, but u can complete the questlines to get all possible endings excpet frenzyflame in a single playthrough
I know many people see Ranni in a positive light, but as the lore of The Lands Between is left to interpretation, I can't help myself, but see her actions as self-serving. I don't think she planned for the Shattering and Godwyn's death. Stealing fragment from the rune of death in my opinion was with idea that she will die and escape the fate she was destined for, but her plan didn't exactly work, and she ended up as a spirit. Conveniently, her ending and her order is for her to pack her bags and leave, a feel good escape that tells us nothing to what will happen to the Lands Between. For one, does her new order include death? What are the new rules of reality for the Lands Between? I find her ending ironic since she did try to escape fate that will place her at Marika's place and still we put her there. Also, the consequences of her ending are not exactly the best, in my opinion. The Lands Between go from full on tyrannical order to no order at all. At first glance, that might feel good and as close to freedom as it can be, but no order is basically anarchy. I still think that her ending is completely self-serving and going for what she wanted from the very start, to escape the world and leave every one else to do whatever.
the land in bewtween will be go back in full tyrannical order but this time for the people own decisions, no because a other god say so~ also, ranni already excapet her destiny when she died, yes she is a gosth but she is no longer bound to the great order, she doesn't need to free everyone else. She already got what she wanted, and she didn't need to be put in charge of all the land, she is bound to return she like it or not... i don't think 1k years is just a random number, it is probably the biggest amount of time the currently lord can be out of the land (jus like jhons with only being able to set a foot in land every X years)
From what I gathered she leaves the lands between to the mercy of some lovecraftian gods akin to astel and the falling star beasts, so she basically creates bloodborne.
@@reecemurdock6205 nop, she pull a rhodan and stop the lovecraftrian moster from crushing into the land... she took all elder god influence of the world out (this including falling stars, remember that the elder beast IS also a called start sent by the greater will) adn keep it a way for 1 thousand years edit: btw the leave the world to beast like astel is also something the greater will did/does, it even sent its own void beast...
@@kjj26k nothing is more caothic than order, after all in a reality where everything goes into chaos, orden is just the última te chaos, so caothic that it doesnt Even flow the rules of the universe~ orden and chaos are the same
Dayum, it’s entirely crazy that the whole reason the Shattering happened and why the world of Elden Ring is the way it is, is due to one girl who wanted to be free from the shackles of fate and escape to the stars.
But that's how it goes isn't it? A system that preemptively crushes all who it deems would oppose it, create opposition. And eventually that opposition will strike that system in a way it can't recover.
If she forged the knives for the assassins, why would they come for her/Blaidd/Iji after she'd killed the two fingers? I don't think she ordered Blaidd and Iji to be killed, because one of the last things she says is "tell Blaidd and Iji I love them". This is so fucking mysterious lmao.
Because ultimately they would betray her Blaidd is an agent of the greater will given to her when she betrays the golden order Blaidd is mind controlled into doing so and so is iji on description for iji helmet it states it’s meant to block the influence of the greater will but he takes off during his battle with the black knife assassins but regardless of risk ranni still keeps them by her as long as possible
I think Ranni had some sort of arrangement with the Black Knives to get them their weapons, potentially feigning just wanting to strike at the Golden Order. My guess is that they wanted to completely kill Godwyn, but Ranni tricked them and did her half-death (dividing the mark). This left half of a Demigod to turn into the Prince of Death. The Black Knives either saw this as a betrayal, were hired out to a new master, or Ranni was just next on their master's hit list for making her big move towards her Ending
Only thing I can’t think of is poor Godwyn, his half sister/cousin thing directly caused him to die which then caused the entirety of the Lands between to go to hell and people still try to defend her because she’s cute?
I love how so many people in the comments are criticizing Ranni for not just telling them where the Cursemark of Death is. You know? That one thing that's actually capable of killing her. This is like someone walking in to your house, telling you they know you have a gun and asking where it is, and then calling you a selfish prick for not telling them.
Man I really enjoy your videos on Elden Ring. Many small details that's not covered by the click baiting youtubers. Been binge watching all these videos before I start NG+.
I like the idea that Ranni knew a Demi-God would die, but had no knowledge of who it would be. The fact it was Godwyn might be why Alecto is imprisoned. "I TOLD YOU TO KILL _A_ DEMIGOD! NOT _THE_ DEMIGOD! MARIKA'S TITS!"
i very like the role of ranni, as the stepchild that lives in the shadows and slowly executes her "evil" plan to get rid of the system, run by her stepmother, that corruptet rannis family. Ranni the goat.🤷♂️
so goated that she condemned the world to thousands of years of suffering and destruction, along with the death and suffering of her half-siblings so that she can go to the stars and let the world be consumed by the death plague and Star people.
So, here's my interpretation of Ranni's plans and her cooperation with the Black Knives: We know, because Ranni tells us in this conversation, that it was she who stole a fragment of the Rune of Death and used it to forge blades which were capable of fully slaying a demigod. So, I do believe that at least at one point, she and the Black Knives were working together. However, I think that Ranni tricked the Black Knives, which is (at least) one of the reasons they hunt her throughout the game. The Black Knives intended on using their newly-forged blades to slay Godwyn - possibly as a specific attack on Marika as most of the Knives were Numen women, like Marika, though this being their motivation is unconfirmed as far as I know - and Ranni used this plan to enact her escape from the two fingers and the greater will. We know, because the cursemark's lore text tells us, that it was the fact that two demigods died at the same moment that caused it to break in two. Without this paired death - as far as I can tell - if Ranni had used the Death Rune's fragment on herself, she would have been subjected to its full power and simply died, both in body and soul, rather than escaping. So, I do think that Ranni did intend for at least on other demigod to die, though I don't think she herself targeted Godwyn - that was entirely the plot of the Black Knives. Because Godwyn died at the same time as her, the cursemark split, and each of them bore on half of its power - Godwyn died in soul, allowing Ranni to survive the process, while Ranni died in body, allowing her to flee her empyrean flesh and thus escape the power of the two fingers. This is the most coherent organization of events and motivations that I've been able to put together. If anyone has any thoughts, or if I've got something wrong, please chime in!
I like how people are so lost in thought and theories about this then I’m sitting here with the idea this will become clear with the dlc(s), as all fromsoftware games have made lore more clear with it.
Precisely. I hate to sound conceited but so, so many DS2 and DS3 "lore-based theories" fell apart like a pack of cards the instant The Crowns/Ringed City DLC came out.
@@kotorandcorvid4968 she is cringe, for she is an appeal to worthless weebs You are cringe, for you simp for a woman that doesn't exist and even she did she wouldn't give you the time of the day And she is wrong, for she is the main the reason the world is in such chaotic state
Every single one of the Demigods' plans was so selfish, so self-serving, I had zero problems hitting that yellow-eyed reset button and burning everything down.
Wtf i was playing this game since release and just 15 min ago I found out Iji with corpses of black knife assasins and now this is first thing I see on my yt front page
How did you get this dialogue? I did her entire questline while having the "proof of the event of the black knives" or whatever it is called and never got this dialogue
Really wished the black knives were a group boss instead of a set of single bosses one of them also had a damaged health bar to add to injury. It would've made it feel like the Undead legion in Elden ring plus you'd get a sense of how powerful they were when they killed Godwyn.
@@dearestdoppio8554 There is a video where someone had all the Black knives together take on different bosses, and it varies from terrifying to hilarious. Especially the Gideon one. I could totally see them slapping around even a powerful demigod like Godwyn
Ever since I did something that made her tell me that she is - if I understand correctly - the reason why I can run around and do whatever I want in this virtual world, I loved her. Yeah, I want to run around and beat up everything I see.
What if the Queen was working with Ranni? They both hate the greater will and the two fingers so its not inconceivable that they are allies in the shadows
The only thing that really came out of the Night of the Black Knives was the death of Godwyn the Golden, Marika's first child. I don't see her getting involved in that. Marika's way of rebelling against the Greater Will was to shatter the Elden Ring and give it to her various remaining children.
@@Hardrada_129 oh I forgot about Godwyn. Any way Ranni is best girl and thats that. Edit: Its quite possible that they worked together at the start but the assassination of Godwyn was a betreyal on the part of Ranni or was not part of Rannis plan at all.
@@Hardrada_129 The item descriptions explicitly states that the Black Knives obey to Marika and the Two Fingers and a character flat out says that Marika hated Godwyn so, fairly certain she had him killed intentionally and then broke the Elden Ring so that no one could replace her as god.
She doesn't mention why she choosed to kill Godwyn, wich by all accounts was a giga chad well beloved by everyone and condemn him to whatever the fuck he became
You are confusing him with Godfrey, She killed him very possibly because she needed to slay her own body but not her soul, so she slew the soul of the prince of death to cheat true death (using only 1 half of the mark of death)
10 hours later. Ranni - So, it was thee, who would become my Lord. Perhaps I needn't have warned thee. I am pleased, however. Thou'rt a fitting choice. Tarnish - I have a tsundere wife.
Ranni is the adopted daughter of Renalla and biological daughter of Marika/Radagon. She planned the night of long knives to murder Godwyn (her half brother) as revenge for Her father's worse half (Marika) compelling him to return to the capital, and essentially destroying Rennalla emotionally in the process and driving her insane. As we can see of Ranni, with her spell to protect Rennalla that she truly loved her like a mother, however we know they aren't related because Ranni is an empyrean. We can also assume they had a strong relationship, not just based on the spell, but also by how absolutely devoted Renalla is to her children through written lore and how she protects the amber egg. So though I think Marika and Radagon have it in them to kill their Children, it is stated specifically how Godwyn was the favored Son and to inherit the legacy of the Elden Ring and loved above the other Demi-gods by Marika.
@@gimbub Where is this stated? And as far as parentage is concerned Radagon and Marika might as well be different people. Why the hell would Rennala adopt a child of Marika and her former husband lol. Ranni is Rennala's daughter.
