I have been pondering Game of Thrones and the similarities. There's a lot there to be seen. Like, what if the concept of Death was something Marika threw aside as a means of controlling mankind. The Gloam Eyed Queen, and the Godskins were such a threat at the time, that she put up a wall. A partition to keep all the Death stuff away. Everything Death associated that she didn't want seen was put into the Land of Shadows. Much like the Wall and the situation with the White Walkers in Game of Thrones. Marika said, "as long as you got me and the big glowy night light tree, you don't ever gotta be scared of the shadow of Death ever again, sweet babies."
I think that's the case, yeah. The Godskins were a very unwelcome version of the various anti-God movements (like Goldmask wanting to cut them out of the Order, Ranni wanting to shroud the world from them, etc) but the Godskins weren't doing it to usher in a humanist society, they themselves happily kill and skin mortals as part of their rituals (Windmill Villages). Thus, Marika throws death out the window as a way to stop the Gloam Queen and cement her rule, but then over time starts to slowly pay for it.
@@MasoTrumoi There's still a lot about Marika we don't understand. I get this feeling from the lore that she fears the forces of Death, though. The war of with Godskin and the Gloameyed Queen must have been like the Blackfire Rebellions in GoT but much, much worse. Whatever Marika saw back then, she decided Death wasn't worth keeping due to the horrors of the Godskins. The horrors of the snake. Which I think has some relationship to the Crucible. In theory, Death rules the forces of evolution. And therefore of change. So all that Crucible based stuff got tossed in the bin as well by association.
@@TheAzureEnd Agreed. Just from looking at the Godskin outfits, it's clear that MANY of Marika's kin were slain, to the point that she was the last of her kind until Miquella and Malenia were born. To a woman already fated to live eternally, even beyond the limits of other gods, it's not hard to imagine how devastatingly frightening it must be to be left with only fragile and fleeting lives around her. And this is where the parallel to the Norse myth of Baldr comes in as the keystone of Marika's character, imho. Baldr's mother Frigg feared losing him so much that she went around and made everything in existence vow to never harm him, but just happened to overlook one small thing: mistletoe. And of course, that was enough to kill the unkillable god. Similarly, Marika simply made Destined Death impossible, sealing it away in Maliketh's sword, trusting that no one could take it from him, and knowing he couldn't ever betray her. But in the end, even she realized that death is a necessity, and ultimately a mercy.
@@elleofmusic what is the biggest mystery to me is the nature of Godwyn's demise since he's basically Baldr. There's that one Finger Reader Crone down in the Deep Root Depths who is crying over Godwyn. She isn't crying over the fact he's dead. She's crying about his manner of death. That he was supposed to be a martyr to Destined Death. Why? Who does that benefit? And what would have his death have reaped if this horrific ritual had gone according to plan without Ranni's intervention? Was there a prophecy? And was that why those Crones are dead in droves at the entrance of Marika's bed chamber at the hands of that Black Knife Assassin? Was it revenge for even suggesting the prophecy by Marika?
@@TheAzureEnd I'm desperately hoping that the dlc provides us with some answers to these questions, because right now all we can really do is speculate, but my theory is that the Night of Black Knives was less of an assassination plot as it was a ritual sacrifice. We get a plethora of hints throughout the few items and dialogue there is regarding Those Who Live In Death, and the "dead" in general, that they're really only a problem because they lack leadership, and Ensha's equipment states that it all comes from a "soulless king" who was "lord of the lost and desperate," a description associated with the dead via some of the Death Hexes and Rosus' Axe. And the ghost in the church at Castle Sol pleads for their "frigid sun" to "grant life to the soulless bones" while the item on the alter is the Eclipse Shotel, which is infused with the flames of the Prince of Death- Godwyn. And last but not least, Elphael is festooned with worshipful imagery of an emaciated figure draped in a burial shroud, surrounded by the dead, suggesting that Miquella intended to incorporate Life In Death into his Order, and give the Dead a leader in Godwyn, as a being similar to the original Ensha. But the Eclipse failed for reasons unknown. The part about Godwyn being a "martyr to Destined Death" is woefully clever wording, because it really doesn't tell us if he was a true victim or a willing sacrifice, just that Destined Death's involvement was more than one of mere convenience for Ranni. I believe that all the way back then, she and her other conspirators knew that Destined Death would have to be unleashed, and the Erdtree would have to be destroyed. Thus, Miquella grows his replacement, and Ranni gives Rykard the Blasphemous Claw to help him fight Maliketh and free Destined Death from him by force if necessary. It's described as a "last resort," which I can only assume means they may have hoped that sacrificing Godwyn to Destined Death would give him enough of a connection to it upon his Eclipse resurrection that they could leave the Rune sealed and just have Godwyn control Death in its stead. All wild speculation of course 😩
Something I rarely see people mention about Destined Death is that its absence is not at all universal. People often talk about it as if permanent death simply doesn't happen in the Lands Between, and that can't be completely true. Plenty of unique NPCs we encounter seem to have died for real, even some Tarnished. As such, it would be reasonable to conclude that the Rune of Death must be kept close at hand because it must be kept under control. Death is not entirely sealed away - it is merely no longer "destined", and can only be brought to some beings by certain killing acts. (Regarding the non-universal presence of death: Sure, lots of entities are deathless - there's that wonderful bit in the item descriptions on the Aristocrat set. But we very obviously see at least four dead NPCs - Irina and Lanya, as well as two Finger Maidens who do not seem to have died before Destined Death was hidden. And the strongest evidence that even Tarnished can die, I think, is that you can kill the Dung Eater when you first encounter him and he will not come back. He's already eager to project his phantom, whether into the Roundtable Hold to solicit other Tarnished for help, or to simply have a duel with you. He certainly would want to invade you for revenge if you accepted his request to free him and then betrayed him. The game seems to be clearly indicating, even more so with other NPCs that you can kill, that Dung Eater is gone for good.)
I think there is potentially a lot to talk about regarding the connection between the two large ships we caught a glimpse of in the trailer and the very very similar looking ships depicted inside the grand cloister as well as on the flaming pillars in siofra river and around the mohgwyn palace. I’m very interested to learn more about this story in the upcoming dlc
Perhaps it depicts marikas ancestors first going to land of shadow, thus the line “they were never saints, just on a losing side of the war” explaining why they came in the first place. The war may be one they lost to fire giants or similar ancient enemy, marika is born and returns with the power to conquer the lands between and her peoples ancient enemies 😮
Regarding hiding Maliketh in the Shadow land - I think that it would be a bad idea, ok it is hidden, but there is a problem - time goes forward there as well and Marika want rune of death to be hidden forever. That's why Farum Azula is a better place for him.
That’s not what the comment had meant. It was merely relating Marika’s relationship with Maliketh to The Lands Between’s relationship with the Shadowlands I dont recall anyone saying Maliketh is hidden in the Shadowlands, just that the Rune of Death was integral to the Land of Shadow’s separation of the landmass of the Lands Between
It would never happen, but how funny would it be if Torrent is in the Shadow Lands whenever we summon him and he comes to us. And then on like a hill there's a stable, and if you go there, Torrent is sitting there as like an NPC. And if you're stupid enough to kill him, the whistle stops working. They wouldn't do it, but that would be so funny as a punishment to players who just kill characters to see what happens.
Yes. It’s not confirmed tho. But given that the Land of Shadow has its own history and culture before the Erdtree, we’ll see a lot of beast culture. Beast culture is directly responsible for the existence of the ‘Shadow of the Empyrean’.
@@HeevaEgo If the Erdtree has its own Shadow, it could kind of make sense why empyreans must also have a shadow? If a shadow keeps an empyrean in check, what does the Erdtree's shadow do?
@@nitinburli7814 correct. There’s also many theories regarding the validity of the Erdtree’s tangible form. Due to specific wording of item descriptions post-age-of-plenty, it’s assumed that the tree we see is actually fake, or an illusion. With what we know is of ‘Shadows’ in Elden Ring being representative of the ‘Ego’s’ dark/true self, then we can infer that the ‘ShadowTree’ actually SERVES the Erdtree in some way. There’s sap leaking from it, so maybe the sap represents something that Marika doesn’t want to appear in the Lands Betweens Erdtree (perhaps the crucible sap??)
That building at the end is connected to the entrance of farum azula. Look at the upper part, it's destroyed and hanging in the air, it was connected to the entrance of farum azula. The murals of the walls coincide as well.
One think that don't makes sense to me so far: Godwyn and Miquella were close, Ranni sacrificed Godwyn yet her and Miquella seems to get along/have mutual purpose ? Or maybe they're arrogant enough to say "Yeah do it Ranni, kill our brother the one I cherish the most with Malenia, I'll just bring him back/bring true death to him via the Eclipse Ritual !" can someone bring his thoughts to me ?
I still have a sneaking suspicion that the Eclipse was always a part of the plan, and that Godwyn himself may have been in on it, believing his death would only be temporary, but something went wrong. Perhaps Ranni double-crossed everyone by splitting the Hallowbrand between herself and Godwyn, bc she didn't believe that making him be the new Lord of the Dead was a sufficient solution.
