I would like apologize in advance, seems like while cleaning the audio i butchered something and a lot of my words end up half pronounced :( I'll add captions as soon as i can.
Willing to bet this will be the story of Marika growing up under the Dynast King and the Crucible Tree, becoming the Gloam Eyed Queen, and burning down the Erdtree with the aid of Messmer, while Miquella uses Messmer as a conduit by way of Mohg to enter the Shadowlands and make contact with the Formless Mother to get the blood he needs, possibly to make a sort of Unalloyed Golden Bloodflame magic he can use to do all sorts of things like cure Godwyn and Malenia, fuel the Haligtree with an endless supply of blood, and start his own dynasty with the one Outer God disinterested in meddling in mortal affairs. Wild guess tho. Maybe we will even learn Melina was the kindling Maiden for Messmer as well, or some sort of couterpart.
An important thing I haven't seen anyone mention yet about Messmer's symbol is that it's an actual real world heraldic device called Impalement. It's two charges, one left one right, separated by a line through the middle. Charges, the actual symbols, rarely have meaning when it comes to heraldry outside of the meaning applied to it by the person who made the charge, but Impalement does have explicit meaning. It represents the merging of two houses, most typically through marriage. It would be used primarily to represent your household, you'd put up a banner with the Lord's symbol on the dexter (left) side and the Lady's on the right (sinister) side. If you were to marry up as a man, however, for instance marrying into a line that has a claim you'd likely impale your sigil with your wife's from the outset in order to show your claim to the throne. Messmer's symbol literally represents him marrying SOMEBODY who is represented by the Crown of Thorns. Personally, I think it's the GEQ.
Ohhh, I like that! Given we're getting history about Marika and presumably the origins of the Golden Order, it seems highly likely we'll get at least something on the GEQ. If Messmer was on the GEQ's side of the conflict, that'd be an explanation on its own as to why he's in exile. One thing that makes me doubt though is they showed nothing noticably Godskin related in the trailer.
The crucible wings being an ash of war makes perfect sense. Since that move is basically just flying up then charging forward. It probably won't work with hammers and whips and a few other types but it should work with nearly all kinds of swords and spears IMO
and we have crucible horn, tail and breath already. crucible wings should've been on the base game, like a drop on one of the many non-boss crucible knights
This being an AoW would be cool, but part of me really hopes for a much more unlikely but way cooler possibility: Weapon Catalysts, like Blue Flame from DS2. There are so many spells in Elden Ring, and with the DLC surely adding many more, I would like some new options for casting them rather than the same boring staves and seals we've had in the base game. I want to be a true spellsword again, dammit!
Its weird how weve discovered that marika, the black, knives, the nox sorceresses are all numens, and the numen runes are the largest non shard bearer runes in the games but no one has hypothesized that the dlc willl be about the numen kingdom or society.
I only just heard about your channel from Smoughtown today. Already I am subscribed because you mentioned the Belfry and the Cathedral in that wide-angle landscape shot. Nobody else I've seen has talked about them much, so it was very nice to see you pay attention like that. I look forward to following your Lore discoveries after June 21.
Messmer might have been the first one swaddled by Marika and inherited the flame. Then when she removed destined death she wanted people to forget about him and his powers. Perhaps even dividing a flame into the lesser flame powers we see in-game
Its very interesting to me that Messmer's walk animation and moveset share similarities with the Cleanrot Knights, from impaling the enemy with a thrust, throwing out magic flame in an arc (similar to the motion cleanrot's throwing their rings of light) and summoning a bunch of spears around him, similar to the cleanrot's golden spear attack. He even has a similar sort of posture right before attacking the Tarnished. I feel certain there is a connection there, but we will have to see.
Kosmos cuts right through to the point. His astute observations and keen attention to detail make him an integral part of the lore community and he definitely towers above a lot of the more recognized lore speculators.
Those shadow tendrils coming out of Messmer and surrounding him, I think, hint at the rune he has. Remember how the Elden Ring in Farum Azula almost looks like it has roots? I think Messmer has those roots as his rune, which I theorize is the Rune of Shadow! Those tendrils do have VERY similar shapes to those roots and I wonder if maybe separating those roots from the Elden Ring is what created the Land of Shadows, separating the world into light, the Lands Between, and darkness, the Land of Shadows.
Lemme know if this is cogent . Im speculating, Merika might've birthed Messmer with the specific task of Overthrowing The Crucible and its allies ,in which he was largely successful at. Also guessing he's known as the "Impaler" for impaling the old dude with something symbolic of the golden order and using his unique flame to warp it , to make it unremovable. But I'm also guessing , after the fighting was all done -- he had no purpose after earning Merika her godhood title. we always assumed that Melina is one of the daughters of Merika , But what if she just has the same naming convention just out of coincidence ? think about Godrick. What if she's the daughter of Messmer and her mother would be the Gloam eyed queen, something she inherits. I say this because she has one eye closed , one golden; one purple. But maybe Merika saw another empyrean as a threat to her own plans, and destroyed the Gloam-Eyed Queen -- sending Mesmer into a state of rage causing an endless war , That Merika could only hide from. Similar to the way Merika destroyed the Elden Ring after Godwyn's death. He may only respect his mothers name , just out of the inability to understand her actions.
I think the dude is Miquella divesting himself of flesh idk why everyone think he’s got gold hair and a big booty he crawled in an egg like a moth man and was force fed blood he always had white hair I know everyone agrees with you but I think it’s dumb lol
Marika defeating The Gloam Eyed Queen, taking her eyes and giving one to Melina and one to Messmer makes a lot of sense to me. Potentially the dlc will feature a blind Gloam Eyed Queen secret boss fight. However if the Finger Slayer Blade comes from a previous God, and the previous God was the Gloam Eyed Queen, then it wouldn't make sense to get one.
She was an empyrean not a god though so I don’t think the blade was her, especially since it seems like the godslayer blade would be the one made from her body instead
@@godly_potatoe69xd19 My personal belief currently is, that the Gloam Eyed Queen killed the God of Farum Azula. I mean, she has the Godslayer's Greatsword, which basically means that the Gloam Eyed Queen is dubbed a godslayer. The god she killed was then buried beneath Leyndell in the tomb the Fingerprint stone shield was a part of. Then the corpse was stolen by the Nox who turned it into the Fingerslayer blade and killed a Two Finger and potentially gave the Elden Beast it's wound. If, I remember correctly, I'm pretty sure Cosmos thinks the Gloam-eyed Queen was the God of Farum Azula, which was why I said it like that.
@@kasp7674 sounds pretty reasonable, I just wonder how placidusax wouldn’t know she was dead cuz he seems confused abt where she went and they say he was abandoned and his god fled. Unless it’s a miquella type situation where placidusax’s god left and just never returned so he doesn’t know what happened, but idk I feel like they would have mentioned that if it was the case.
@@godly_potatoe69xd19 Yes, she must have fled before being killed. Potentially the Gloam Eyed Queen fought Placidusax, cut off a couple of his heads, the God saw it and fled. Later she was hunted down without Placidusax knowing what was going on. It also explains why she wasn't buried in Farum Azula and why she hasn't returned. I also have a few other takes in regards to the Finger Slayer blade(which I think is the most important lore item in the game). I think one of the main reasons why the Black knife attacks Ranni when they do, is because she sent us to steal the Fingerslayer Blade, their most important artifact. I also think it was the Nox/Numen living in Leyndell who created the Fingerslayer blade and betrayed the Greater Will. Which in turn made the Greater Will collapse the Selian'esque/numen part of Leyndell underground, to become the Nameless Eternal city. And I think it happened after the Shattering, potentially on behalf of Marika(Marika wants to create a weapon capable of killing a God), because why would the front gates of Leyndell be attacked in the trailer, when we know it just leads to water. So it must have happened after that Shattering war battle at least.
I love how almost everyone comments on how weirdly cute the ghost worm fella is 🙂I really hope that he can be a spirit summon like the jellyfish because i need him to be my spirit animal
love your videos! wondering if anyone has looked at Tolkein’s “Numenorians” as a possible background for Numen. Tolkein’s are a powerful race from over the seas, who eventually burned a sacred tree in a historic act of sacrilege, and built a temple on the site of the burnt tree…
That's probably the most direct inspiration that elden ring gets from Tolkien. A powerful and advanced race that has its civilization collapse, but the refugees are still able to become the ruling class of a new civilization they found by conquest. Apparently George RR Martin was the one who wrote most of the background history of elden ring, probably up to the shattering wars, and making a throwback reference to Tolkien is definitely something he would do.
MESSMER'S appearance is like combined clean Rot Knights, godskin, and drake knights. Also have in mind that dragons are considered serpents and Japanese dragons don't have wings. As for messmers flame, might be a shadow flame given by the fact that it's produced from an actual shadow? Also about tarnished, the first one that gets tarnished was Godfrey himself after Marika married her other half Radagon. Radagon also was the one that close the colloseums etc, as if he tries to eradicate and erase what ever Godfrey tried to leave behind. As for Godfrey we know that he was the lord of Crucible knights. He also was bestowed as an advisor Serosh a LION. Lions are encraved through out the lands between but try to depict them as GOLDEN LION. Serosh has a wound on his face and CROWN on his head, crown wearied of Lords so Serosh is Lord of beasts? Given the title from dragons in Ferum Azula? Because we know where we went at ferum azula that there. Was a time when beasts were given intelligence, also Serosh was a GOLDEN LION. As for Maliketh his title is Maliketh slayer of DEMIGODS, I wonder who are the Demigods that Maliketh slained to get this title if not God's kins that were the tries of Glowmite Queen to have her lineage with Demigods.
It's insane how much extra info your video contained to anything else, thanks! Also, I wonder how much research you do to find those clues, or if it really just that a pictures comes into your mind when you see something in the trailer. I think specifically of like the red dancer's blades look like the Fingerslayer Blade and that her model is similar to the Nightfalk race. Especially the latter.
A lot of it is down to the fact i have been getting into the lore for the past 2 years, so over time you acumulate knowledge and just get really familiar with how cerftain things look. Then there is also the fact that some stuff in the game are closely tied to the more escential/mysterious parts of the story. Things like the eternal cities / nox / nightfolk are potentially the key the lore so you end up watching out for sign of them, sometimes even too much which can lead to confirmation bias.
So I'm starting to wonder if the woman in the painting was a deathbed companion. If the shadowlands is separated from the erdtree rebirth cycle, other death practices may be common. Perhaps this woman is the deathbed companion for elden John or at the very least some lord. I like to believe she's the gloam eyed queen and somehow birthed Marika buy idk.
I feel like quests in Elden Ring are intrinsic to telling the stories of the Past. -Nephellis quest gives more context to Hoarah Loux, and his warriors’, attitude and personality. - D’s quest gives insight into the conflict of the dual-identity themes that are present in many of the major characters. - Ranni’s quest, and perhaps her purpose, gives context to her Mothers wish. “Weave thy night into being”. Her quest is bringing Rennallas wish into light. - Millicent is specified as being a part of Malenia, her Pride. So the quest gives you more of an understanding of the type of person Malenia was. An interesting one is Fia: Blonde hair, Black dress, from faraway land, quest revolves around Marika’s Firstborn, concerned with Death in a ritual of common culture…. I feel like that quest is major foreshadowing for a major character in the DLC: whether that be Marika, the Gloam Queen or even Godwyn.
@Zayn_Bass I 100% agree I'm thinking our quest as Elden lord likely mimics Marika's ascension ie hunting the gods, weaponizing death while avoiding it at all costs, slaying the giants, and invading the ancient seat of the elden ring (In Marika's case likely farum azula but we also invade leyndell which she likely did as well)
I purpose the Radagon giga chad theory where Radagon/Merica and Gloam eyed queens baby in the amber egg was in another realm because destined death was sealed away
I wasn’t actually expecting to learn anything new when you said that at the beginning of the video. I was just watching to hear you thoughts and see what you think. But you never know man, I did learn a bunch of new stuff I never even considered before. Great analysis.
If the gloam eyed queen was the previous god… could “Elden John” be placidusax in human form ? And her Elden Lord? Presiding over the crucible? We know from Lansseax that the ancient dragons could take human form 🤔
You're just too good Kosmos. Can't wait for you unravelling these mysteries after the DLC drops. Not that there's much to go on but do you think we'll learn more about either the gloam eyed queen or Godwyn with this expansion?
I like your take on the trailer, I was thinking of Miquela's role in a similar way. Mentioned good detail that I haven't seen in other videos. Also, I appreciate the Bloodborne profile pic. Subbed :D
Dude in the portrait and with the rune shoved up the butt is the key to what has happened.He looked pretty worried in the portrait,and the woman having her face covered is sinister.That guy was punished or he did it to himself for some reason.Did the woman do it or Messmer?Or Marika?He is also that same guy with the crucible and growing a tree from it,look close his face is burned,every statue I see across the land of him shows burned face texture.
Interesting thoughts but I think we might get clues to the connection with ferum azula. Don't forget there is an item there that in it's description says that long time before the age of Erdtree, beasts was given intelligence.
Maybe we'll need weapon upgrade materials tied to that Darkness effect, like maybe that's how we'll be leveling appropriately for the DLC. We need some kind of weapon imbuing to damage the enemies here. Miquella could do that for us, they are supposed to be a master craftsman/woman after all.
I believe the Shaded Castle and Marais Mask description explains Messmers original purpose. He was an executioner and steward of the Shadowlands. The same role the Marais have at Shaded Castle. His siblings Miquella and Malenia also tie into that location too. I think the Shadowlands are where Marika imprisoned her greatest threats and buried her past. I speculate Messmer is the God of Death, originally a tool for Marika to use against her enemies. When the GEQ was defeated, Marika produced a new empyrean of Death to be her ultimate weapon. But Messmer was effectively banished to this Shadow realm along with a lot of forces that oppose her, such as the Fell God, Blodless Mother, and dragons. So eventually they corrupted him and/or his resentment for being trapped caused him to betray Marika. That's why he has so many powers and associations to different factions, all of them lending him power against the Golden Order.
The beginning sounds a lot how Varré described Luminary Mohg and his dynasty full of ‘love’ and Mohg is absolutely terrifying. The ‘pure’ could refer to blood free of the influence of the Fingers. Hard to say but I wonder now if ‘love’ is a weapon and Varré’s final words a curse .
I noticed in the model for Radagon he only has a left eye shining the right is totally black, and Mesmer has a right eye. Radagon being fundamentalist 1000% and Mesmer being everything else pretty much and the wording of "could be called a child of marika", makes me wonder if Marika created Mesmer and Radagon. She creates Mesmer but disconnects from it because of fear or hate or something and then makes Radagon, the total opposite.
Im so happy we actually are getting DLC based on Miquella and where he went. His has always been the most fascinating and mysterious story of all the characters besides Marika and plot twist, we get back story on her too?! Miyazaki is feeling generous!
I agree the regal knight you talk about around minute 11 seems to me to match the figure standing in the beginning of the trailer. I wonder if this might be an armor of unalloyed gold? That's probably a stretch and unfounded, but either way I like the look of that armor set very much!
One thing I noticed was that the circular flower like reveal on the floor in the Lion Dancer boss room is very similar or the same as the reveals on Farum bridge. I wonder if the locations were built by the same culture.
You're right we don't know much about the other tree in this realm, but if I recall correctly, the closest shots we have to the tree seem to show the same colorful leaves and undertones as the Haligtree and minor erdtrees? I wanted to think it was deathroot but I'm beginning to doubt that for now
In case I missed it, misunderstood, or you pointed it out literally as I started typing this and I didn’t feel like stopping. That gold rune looking object may not be an actual rune, or at least, not one that was part of the Elden Ring. All the great runes we have seen are actually words of the language of light spoken by the Two Fingers. Obscured in places, it doesn’t take too hard of a look to see the lettering. It’s probably a thing like to depiction of the Elden Ring in Farum Azula.
Okay, so I have a slightly different interpretation of, “Those stripped of the Grace of Gold shall all meet death in the embrace of Messmer’s flame” That is literally his purpose given to him by Marika. Recall Marika’s echoes, “(Third Church of Marika) My Lord, and thy warriors. I divest each of thee of thy grace. With thine eyes dimmed, ye will be driven from the Lands Between. Ye will wage war in a land afar, where ye will live, and die. (Church of Pilgrimage) Then, after thy death, I will give back what I once claimed. Return to the Lands Between, wage war, and brandish the Elden Ring. Grow strong in the face of death. Warriors of my lord. Lord Godfrey.” Recall Melina and the Blade of calling, “The one who walks alongside flame, Shall one day meet the road of Destined Death.” Messmer and the Land of Shadow serve, it seems, as a proving ground. But it isn’t just “show me what you can do.” Look at the price of passage not just for the tarnished in general, look at Miquella. “It was to this land that Miquella departed. Divesting himself of his flesh, his strength, his lineage. Of all things Golden.” You. Nothing else. You must be able to pass through the Land of Shadow to be worthy of lordship or godhood. Maybe Marika went through this same trial as all her predecessors have before her. Maybe this was Marika’s “Crucible” and when she took control she set up this trail to ensure that those who come after her will be at least comparable to her. I am not certain that the “mother… bereft” line is Messmer speaking of the chosen tarnished. Or, if it is, he just does not fully understand that his role is too weed out those who depend on power gained through or by others. Not even sure it is Messmer speaking. It would be a nice little twist if Miquella is the one speaking of his returning promised lord. That is, he has not yet met his lord, he just knows it is to be someone who had left the Land of Shadow and then returned. His lord would be one from among those called tarnished… or he is talking about Mohg and he is not buying what Mohg is selling.
The boar rider is absolutely a (2, 3, 4, or 5) Fingers wearing a fancy armored costume. It’s a proven fact. I mean, proven so long as nobody asks for proof and just believes hard enough.
Don’t forget Rykard is an inquisitor. Messmer’s original seat was likely mount gelmir. If I had to guess at the plot, Messmer helped defeat the glome eyed queen’s forces. Likely held power of the rune of death and possibly giants fire. After defeating one queen may have went about betraying his mother and trying to take the throne. Which leads to the crucible knights defeating him. The confessors likely were sniffing out traitors to the golden order which is why you see that armor. Sometime later Rykard becomes the chief confessor but ends up becoming the thing he was to fight against.
Just a random thought it would be pretty cool if maybe the Stone armor dude when he talked we couldn't understand him at all (like we only hear muddled talk so muddled we literally can't understand what he's saying), then at some point he takes off his helmet and apologized for not removing his helmet for some reason like we had to prove ourselves so something
But mainly would be cool if an NPC removed his/her helmet (if they wear a helmet that is constantly on like Gideon) to talk with us, maybe just one time lol
I wonder if the scene of the old dude pulling the branch from his head is representing the birth of the Erdtree. Some kind of sacrifice or ritual. Perhaps the old painting would be Marika and the Erdtree father. 100% speculation. What do you think?
@@Kosmos_er It would also coincide with what Miquella was trying to do with the Haligtree, using his blood and later his own body to "feed" it. Perhaps Miquella travelled to the shadow realm to learn or gain the power to grow the Haligtree? Maybe at the point Mogh took him away it was just an empty shell or like a "door" to access the shadow realm and we will access using that same entrance. Btw in Berserk, Griffith is reborn using an Egg. Which allow Griffith to transition/cross from the spirit world to the real world. So, the egg may also be some kind of portal iconography
Something I've noticed on the "dead horse rider " arena is the presence of St Trina's Lilies. I wonder if it could be some sort of "sleep area" of the game where you encounter some nightmarish creatures. Also, the red dancing ladie, I'm pretty sure that's multiplayer. she dodge roll one of the samurai's attack and I don't recall seeing any enemy doing that, except for the invaders.
I find it really odd how few regular color NPC fights there are in Elden Ring. It would be really cool and startling to be attacked all of a sudden by another "person" without any invasion warning, some NPC crouched in a bush or something
I don't think the knight is the same figure as the person at Mohg's palace. A full helmet like that wouldn't be worn while wearing cloth shoes. Bit of an imbalance armor wise. it suggests full plate. I would expect at least thick leather boots with some plating elements like the Blaidd set.
@@Kosmos_er Fair, These really look to me like loosely tied cloth boots, suggesting a lighter garb. I agree though, that the Carian boots could also be thought to be incongruent with the top half if only viewing the lower.
I haven't taken the time yet to fully argue it (that's the next video actually). But yeah, the uhl civ are refered to as the ancient dynasty in game and i believe they are numen, predecessors to the nox.
@@Kosmos_er i am of the opinion that the Uhl are the ancestral followers and that they are the original civilization ofthe lands between before the numens came from another dimension
I am of the opinion that Farum Azula and the Ancient Dungeon of the Shadowland belong to the same ancient civilization prior to the arrival of the Numen who after arriving established their ancient dynasty (uhl). The ancient followers to me seem to be in the lands before the numen too due to their animalistic appearance and because they love those horns so much.
That statue of Marika is not unique. You have seen it before but her hands and baby were removed. Sort of aligned with snakes being treacherous of removing him from history, like the nameless king in Dark souls series.
@@Kosmos_er stranded graveyard in limgrave and in some of the others heros graves underground. There are others as well but I can't recall at the top of my head.
@@swamashijudbedolofritt4448 ah those, i was thinking of ones where it's clearly marika for sure. I used to think the broken off hands held a jar, but i'll keep an eye out for your idea
There are always some nuances amongst different interpretations from people like Quelaag, Crunchy, Kosmos, Smough etc.. I doubt you actually watch the videos
Idk why but that moment where we see the daggers, the place reminds me of Eternal Cities and this fabric we can see reminds me of the cloth in wich Godwyn corpse is in
