It all fits together, more or less, but the road to Mohg's addition to the roster of Demigods may have been a bit of a winding one. Song used: Village Ruins - King's Field IV OST
They say one of the first things you should do when you finish writing is start rewriting. Having a better idea of the whole story can let you revise individual parts of it in new and interesting ways. Unfortunately for videogames, it's a lot more costly to rebuild a game from scratch after you already finished it, so rewrites often times have to make new use of existing assets. There can be some feeling that these revised uses are less legitimate than assets that were used exactly as they were planned to be, but I feel like that's an uncharitable interpretation.
@@scrulpergoshmollard4506 There being two versions of Morgott (3 including Margit) felt like such a central plot point so the idea that they just rushed it to turn an Asylum Demon equivalent into a named character is pretty lame.
this is an aspect about video games I actually really like if not just finding outright fascinating, to take a piece from somewhere else to re-arrange and patchwork other parts based off how the project develops. If anything it's always a testament to the developers when they manage to do it without it being too noticeable outside of deep diving through a games code.
I like how both Mohg and Morgott are blocking the path to the three fingers. Shows how much of a danger the flame of chaos is to everyone in the lands between.
Yeah, they were like "You know, we don't see eye to eye on almost everything, but that thing under the city? Yeah, we can't let anyone reach that. Ever."
@@lucasbeck1391 No, you cannot. If Morgott is not defeated when you reach Mohg and open the passage to catacombs behind the chest, there is a yellow ubreakable seal you cannot pass. It is the same one if you try to leave capital towards Mountaintops of the Giants. You have to kill Morgott to progress both in game and in 3 finger ending.
If people are not into or aware of Irish mythology, one of the most notable druids/wizards was named Mug Ruith(Mogh Roith) which means slave of the wheel. Many might find it interesting, sometimes he is blind or just one eye is blind. He can turn people to stone and had a chariot pulled by bulls
That reminds me of something I was thinking about. The area where Ranni lives being called The Three Sisters makes me wonder if it is an allusion to the Brigid sisters or the Morrígan witches. I've seen people speculate about missing sisters in the Carian family tree because of that location name, but I think it's really meant to be a nod to triple goddesses, especially considering most demigods in ER were born in groups of three.
If you defeat sewer mohg before leyndell morgott, the path beyond sewer mohg is blocked by morgott's aura. So in a sense they did work together on stopping you from seeing the three fingers
The other explaination not said here is that Morgot (for some reason) created an illusion of his twin to guard to way to the three fingers and then sealed it off with his rune.
It seems like everyone in the Lands Between doesn't want you to see the Three Fingers, and for good reason, considering what ending they bequeath. It's the only thing they'll even consider working together over.
@@scorpiowarrior7841 what i saw was that mohg escaped his shackles and his arena in the sewers was his cell. When he escaped he made a projection like margit so no one would realism he escaped. I’m not sure if that’s true, but we do also know that he wanted to make sure no one got to the three fingers
@@scorpiowarrior7841 That would imply that the illusions can be cast regardless of whether or not Morgot is alive, or that the illusion can be cast and it's spell maintained permanently with no further involvement of the caster required. I fought both of the moghs AFTER fighting Morgott. Ockham's razor would demand that we accept the simplest explanation for our given set of facts. And the simplest explanation is that Mogh is casting the illusion.
@@RedFloyd469 both the margitt just outside of leyndell and the sewer mogh can be fought after their respective bosses, or even both of the bosses, have been slain, which complicates things.
Sewer mohg is incredibly easy tho, even if immune to all status effects lol. Same with morgott. I guess it's different, comparing gameplay to lore isn't exactly a good idea
Mohg having a riding point is really funny to me. Imagine Radahn's reaction to seeing the player hanging onto Mohg's horns pointing like "Go my noble steed!"
What's a bigger feat? Killing a Demigod or domesticating one then riding it into battle against all his siblings, dad, step-dad/mom, and fellow minions?
One interpretation I think is neat is that Mohg likely knew that the Three Fingers(or at least something regarding the Frenzied Flame) was contained beneath the sewers. He is technically part of the Golden Lineage and was also trapped down in the sewers with the other Omen for who knows how long, so its not too much of a strech to think he'd find out the secrets his family hid down there. Maybe he feared that the Frenzied Flame could get in the way of *his* Dynasty if someone was able to reach the Three Fingers, so he sent his illusory projection to defend the one entrance leading to it.
I mean, "Everything gets burned to ash by the cosmic edgelords," is absolutely going to get in the way of his dynasty on top of just being generally non-preferable. To quote Eggman, "How can I take over the city and establish the Eggman Empire when there is no city!"
There are quite a few striking similarities between the Frenzied Flame and the Formless Mother, when you think about it. - Both are associated with the number 3 (the Three Fingers are vassals to the Frenzied Flame; Mohg specifically wields a trident, and chants "Nihil" three times to invoke the Formless Mother). - Both are represented by a sort of uncontrollable flame, one red and one yellow, following a familiar trend in Elden Ring's cosmology. - Shabiri's Woe relates to the Frenzied Flame and draws aggression; though Daedicar's Woe is not directly stated to pertain to the Formless Mother, it's worth noting that Daedicar was a mother to misshapen spawn as a result of her masochism, which fits quite well with how the Formless Mother "craves wounds." The fact that Shabiri's Woe and Daedicar's Woe are obviously quite similar in appearance, name, and effect is hard to overlook. - Speaking of "Nihil," both the Frenzied Flame and Formless Mother are depicted as deeply nihilistic entities, which is perhaps why Mohg, a forsaken Omen, latched himself to faith in the Formless Mother. The Frenzied Flame, however, seeks only to destroy by melting all back into the One Great. As for why these two forces might share certain potential similarities is naturally anyone's guess. Maybe Varré was onto something when he ventured that the Shattering caused the Fingers to become warped somehow? In any case, it's not unreasonable to think Mohg would have perceived the Frenzied Flame as a threat to Miquella and the Mohgwyn Dynasty.
@@michaelmannix1604 Interestingly the description of Mohg's remembrance spell says that he discovered the Formless Mother and her bloodflame magic "deep underground". Perhaps the Three Fingers were originally connected to her but then corrupted by the Frenzied Flame? His palace is also underground though, and isolated enough that there's no path there except teleportation. Either way I hope there will be more content around Miquella and maybe Mohg, his story and area always felt a bit incomplete.
He's also likely the one who set up the illusory walls down there by three fingers after his escape from the catacombs, the tunnel would've fit him assuming he clawed it out and then made his way through the eternal cities
Considering the amount of Omen in the sewers, it's not unreasonable to think, and is in fact highly likely, that Mohg and Morgott grew up in the sewers. As Royal Omen, they would grow healthier than their counterparts and would eventually leave. But the fact remains, Mohg has ties to the sewers, as he grew up there. It's entirely plausible that he'd set up a mirror image of himself in there to protect his Omen kin, being that he loves them. Unlike Morgott, he sees his Omen blood as a blessing, rather than a curse.
The game confirms that their royal heritage only spared them from the absolute worst of treatment (having their horns cut and left to die). Both were still exiled into the sewers.
@@soarel325 they do, you're right. That's actually why most people know about the Omen's fate in the sewers, alongside the Omen bairn and Royal Omen Bairn items
And seeing how he sees his blood as a blessing, he would want to try and defend his other Omen brothers. Although, this begs the question, why is he guarding that part of the sewer system specifically? Did he originally come into contact with the Three Fingers, pledge his loyalty to them, and then set up a guard illusion to defend them, but then came into contact with the Formless Mother and pledged loyalty to her instead? But because he bound himself by pact to the Fingers, he decided to keep his illusion form there and just update it with his Bloodflame form?
@@auticrat @mrcellophane226 @communistcrusader4117 You three guys win this comment section. Good thing I plopped my Wondrous Flask of Physicks before watching this.
I like to think that maybe Mohg produced an illusion of himself there to maybe prevent the Tarnished from unleashing the Flame of Frenzy, which in this case I assume, would be an Outer God which could conflict with Mohg's Outer God, the Formless Mother
This was my hypothesis as well. Being locked down in the Shunning Grounds for so long, Mohg could have easily gained knowledge of what the Three Fingers were and used his illusion to stop them from being unleashed
Actually its much more likely that Morgott is responsible for this illusion. The particle effects following the illusion’s death are the same as Margit, which we know to be a projection from Morgott.
Or perhaps it's just a dupe to fool everyone, making them think that Mohg the Omen is still imprisoned in the sewer, whereas the real Mohg acts as the lord of blood. I mean, not even Gideon knew who the Lord of Blood was, until our Tarnished encountered and defeated the Lord of Blood.
I believe both Morgott and Mogh worked together to keep the Three Fingers contained. Hence why he left his projection there while he built his own blood cult following. Because the twins may have their disagreements, but the Frenzy Flame (and keeping the Merchants a secret as well) was a common enemy to both, and it was of their best interest to have it contained.
May have their disagreements? They are mortal enemies that are working for the exact opposite goals, trying to destroy what the other holds dear. That's like saying Hitler and Ghandi may have their disagreements. Working together makes absolutely no sense.
Oh my god! Remember that other video Zullie did where she mentioned Mohg has an unused attachment point designed for him to ride something? He was originally going to ride on Morgott's shoulders and joust the player on Torrent! EDIT: She mentioned it again in this video lmfao I just spaced
in the lore maybe, in the game Malenia delete both of them twice basically she defeat 4 bosses back to back. There are a video about that the omen twine and malenia.
If you defeat sewer mohg before leyndell morgott, the path beyond sewer mohg is blocked by morgott's aura. So in a sense they did work together on stopping you from seeing the three fingers
I believe Mohg in sewers was created by Morgott from his memories of times when they were still together, it explains why he protects the seal casted by Morgott
Huh, and hree I always assumed that it was more along the lines of them discovering the three fingers while living in the catacombs and coming to a deal. Put aside their differences and always ensure that the three fingers are not unleashed, morgott through seal and mohg through projection.
Yeah, and this Mohg is immune to bloodloss, unlike the “Margits” found in Stormveil and around the outskirts of Leyndell. I suposse it’s because of the host that was used to create the second Mohg
This is crazy, if they’d already done the Mohg model with the intent of it being a generic demon, that raises all sorts of questions about at what point they came up with the Omens and Morgott as a character too. On Miquella’s involvement in the Malenia fight, he was planned to have his own ending at one point where he replaced Marika as host of the Elden Ring. Can’t wait to see you cover that!
Miquella ending and other related things were cut very early,theres no old voice acting for them even in the CNT. Morgott is just called Morgott so he was probably always that. Alao in the leaked trailer theres soldiers with trident symbols,so maybe greater demon was promoved to Mohg very early.
One of the more welcome development changes imo. Mohg and the Formless Mother are some of the cooler parts of the lore imo, and having a character that's played straight evil is great. It also leaves them the possibility to do a deeper exploration of Miquella in a DLC rather than having him just present for Malenia's fight. That is, if they actually do Miquella DLC... I really hope they do.
@@ZarMationStudios18 Hell yeah. I'm genuinely stoked they're giving Miquella the love and care he deserves in his own DLC. And who knows, there's a good chance we'll have some Godwyn representation too considering the deathblighted state of that tree in the artwork!
Maybe the Miquella DLC is the whole reason for the Mogh changes. They might had this nice idea about a story around Miquella being stolen and needed someone to do this, but it was to late in development to create another great boss.
@@godricktheminecrafted3113 Nah, at that point in the game most players myself included have seen so many repeated bosses that we just don't care anymore. Edit: I love this game but don't deny this.
@@Malxer I mean I took it as knowing they can project as he was a named boss and not a generic one. Yes bosses repeat but because of Margit/Morgott I knew there was something more here. Now if you’re a player who doesn’t read anything in game/care for the story then yeah you’ll just think it’s a repeated boss. But that’s on the player
Miquella speaking during Malenia’s phase change would make sense, especially considering how they both resemble the twin Princes from Dark Souls 3 (the weaker Prince has dialog when he revived his brother)
I think one really good indication that Mohg's model was not originally intended as an important, named boss is actually in the design of the model - specifically the eyes. Compare his model with generic omens and with Morgott. Morgott has distinct, human eyes, with a clear sclera and iris on his more open eye (though his pupil still ends up always obscured). This is common of important named characters we can see the faces of - they tend to have more complex details, with features that make them look more human or sentient. Mohg's eyes, on the other hand, are smaller and largely a flat colour, matching the generic omens.
My reasoning as to why there’s a Mohg illusion in the Subterranean Shunning Grounds holds similar weight to some others here, in that Mohg is fully aware of what the Frenzied Flame would do if unleashed, and left an illusion there to ensure no Tarnished could ever let it out. Besides, when one of the most reviled, evil people in the game is trying to keep you from something, it’s either because it’s something that can very easily end them and their crimes...or a form of evil even worse than the one protecting it.
Or somebody else is creating the illusion. Nothing suggests that Mogh is the one doing it, aside from it looking like Mogh. The properties clearly are not the same as Margit, the fell omen, since Moghs illusion cannot be affected by any statuses while Margit can.
@@Andretti2Tone ...Miquella is his half-brother...and, until recently, was “blessed” to eternally have the body of a child. Tell me that Mohg isn’t messed up in the head since he lusted after Miquella with that knowledge.
Nah. He just wanted to trick his brother and rest of Lyndell that he is trapped in the deepest pits of the city in order to create his blood dynasty in secret.
@@Andretti2Tone Keep in mind that Mohg KIDNAPPED Miquella, it's not like they agreed to work together or anything, Mohg literally tore Miquella out of his Haligtree which basically killed it and Miquella's attempt to create a sanctuary/new Order. If it was just betraying the Golden Order than you'd be right, but he didn't just do that, he also attacked Miquella, who to my knowledge hasn't done anything wrong and is probably the only demi-god we can say is probably morally good. Also keep in mind that Miquella was basically Malenia's doctor, so not only did Mohg attack and kidnap one of the few relatively good people in the Lands Between, but he also prevents the possibility of Malenia's Scarlet Rot being mitigated.
In one of his pre-release interviews, Myiazaki stated : " I'm excited to see George's reaction to how we have distorted the characters ( demigods) he wrote", thus implying that the demigods( their identities, not their actions) were written by George. What seems more plausable is that they had another model for Mohg, but, due to time constraints/budget, chose the GreaterDemon one instead.
The theory I heard a while ago was that both Mohg and Morgott knew the danger of the three fingers and thought it necessary to guard it, which is why you need to kill Morgott to break a seal to get down there (if I remember correctly) and kill a projection of Mohg. Even if their goals differ wildly, it would all still be derailed by chaos.
Many models have that, even if it doesn't make much sense. It could just be a remedy of a place holder that they copy and pasted, which they then changed to the new model. Such obscure things really don't indicate any purpose necessarily.
@@glorytoukraine5524 The mental image of Mohg bouncing around on the Cocoon like it's a slime mount in Terraria is fucking hilarious, Miquella's floppy arm still dangling out the side.
Also worth noting: When speaking to Gideon about the "Unlocated Demigods," he mentions one "known only as the Lord of Blood" and never once mentions a "Mohg." This is inconclusive on it's own, but we can draw some possible inferences, such as the name being added too late in development to record the voice lines. Perhaps "Mohg" was always intended to be that "class" of Omen, and when they decided to make them less abundant, they simply reused the name for the major one. (However, it's also possible that Mohg's plot was a closely guarded secret, and while his followers were able to spread word of a "Lord of Blood," they never knew his name, so his name never reached Gideon.) Alternatively, Mohg's model could have been used internally as a placeholder until they designed other bosses, just to test that the boss rooms worked properly. Due to the Spirit Ashes being a new mechanic, they would have needed to do more tesing than normal to make sure that it was all working properly instead of just trusting their established fog gate framework, and designing the boss arena before the boss itself would help ensure that the boss's AI is programmed with the arena in mind. This falls apart a bit when you look at the rampant recycled bosses, but it could also point to a more ambitious plan to re-use fewer bosses without making entirely new assets, with the implication that maybe Mohg was meant to ride a Chariot at some point. There could have been the more traditional on-foot Mohg fights and then the mounted one in a larger arena where it had more freedom to move and turn, and you needed to use the terrain for cover and create openings to fight back. At the end of the day, I do think that it just makes sense that Morgott and Mohg just both projected themselves to those locations for various reasons. Morgott did it because anyone brazen enough to go after the Demigods could become a real threat if not cast down before they got good at it, and Mohg... was guarding the way to the Three Fingers, possibly implying that the Flame of Frenzy was a threat he was concerned about.
i interpreted Gideon not knowing Mohg’s name as being because Mohg’s existence was a secret- Mohg and Morgott were out into the sewers probably right after they were born, the public was probably never told that Marika had cursed children, and although Morgott comes out of the sewers and becomes known about at some point, Mohg probably never did. it’s probably just his followers that fully know about him.
@@StarscreamsGirl Gideon knows exactly who Mohg is and what he's like after you tell him he's the Lord of Blood, though. It's more likely Gideon didn't know who the Lord of Blood was, but knew Mohg had been imprisoned in the sewers under Leyndell, and had every reason to believe he was still there until you tell him otherwise. It suits Mohg too, if people think he's still stick under the capital instead of actively plotting against the Golden Order.
@@Darkknightzoey I think it's that yes. Remember that Morgott doesn't name Mohg when talking about the traitors. The theories about why he doesn't range from not naming him because as an Omen he had no right to the Elden Throne to being ashamed at the absolute monster Mohg had become but it's also possible he wasn't aware of what Mohg had been doing. Mohg was hidden in a castle underground building an army while everyone was killing each other in the LB, it seems nobody was aware of what he was doing (that and most people don't even know about him).
Yeah that doesn’t make sense from a developmental viewpoint. Think about how many voice lines mohg has in his fight. There’s no way it was created as a last second decision where they wouldn’t have enough time to make new voice lines for Gideon. It is interesting to think that perhaps early in development, mohg was just some kind of high blood apostle miniboss enemy, something akin to crucible knights or cleanrot knights, making the lord of blood something else. Or perhaps there was not even a lord of blood early in development, and mohg was something else entirely then.
My theory is pretty simple; Mohg is well versed in the frenzied flame, and it's effects on the world. Rather than guarding the 3 Fingers, it's warding it. Obviously, he'll kill anyone he fears gets close to finding the 3 Fingers. The Age of Frenzy is a threat to his Dynasty of Blood
Remember young tarnished, if a strage omen pulls up amd offers you a ride in his chariot, say no, and alert the authorities immediately, even if he offers you candy. ESPECIALLY if he offers you candy.
I always suspected Mohg being Morgott's brother was a late addition, as there's literally no mention of it in the game besides his Great Rune. It's a shame, because him being a true black sheep of the family and how the treatment by the Golden Order molded him and Morgott so differently would've been interesting to explore, but all we have now is what amounts to basically a little sidenote that "and then there's this guy I guess". PS. the room in the sewers where you fight Mohg The Omen has a dev note which refers to the fight as 幻影グレーターデーモン - "illusion Greater Demon", so it really is intended to be an illusion.
While I agree that Mohg was a late addition, I believe that the reason neither he nor Morgott are mentioned together is because their existence was mostly secret. They are the Omen Twins of Queen Marika after all.
"But all we have now is what amounts to basically a little sidenote that "and then there's this guy I guess."" Thaaaat's a Souls game's writing! Carnival noises go here.
i feel like them being brothers makes sense based on the other lore, and only one explicit reference is really needed to tie it all together. theyre guarding the frenzied flame entrance, morgott uses bloodflame incantations, theyre clearly foils, etc. their designs, motivations, religious/philosophical outlooks, goals, are all neatly contrasted with each other. its not surprising theyre related.
@@Pyre No, what connects Morgott to the Golden Lineage is Souls games writing, while the very little that connects Mohg to Morgott has a very clear whiff of someone at the last minute going "Actually, let's just make this guy Morgott's brother, whatever".
The cut dialogue of Miquella is interesting. For some time I've been thinking that maybe Empyreans are people that can serve as seeds to grow a great trees. Miquella talking about giving his last dew would fit this nicely.
I haven't finished ds3 but it sounds like a reskin of the twin princes, where the bigger brother dies and the femboy raises the other from the dead or something.
@@Billythetoaster2004exactly what I was thinking which may be a reason they added Mogh. There’s plenty of references to the other games, but that one would be a little too blatant
It's because Miquella is the vessel of the Outer God of Abudance. He has infinite life energy and can serve as the seed for a tree that rivals even the Erdtree. Marika is not the seed of the Erdtree, the Erdtree is a parasite that took over a tree connected to the Crucible.
this seems like one of the rare cases where what we got feels better than what was cut. so often, I see cut content, and I think "I wish that was in the game" but I'm glad mohg ended up becoming a unique boss who's a demigod. I love mohg's fight, one of my favourites in the game. and I think his lore is really interesting too.
imagine just exploring a random catacomb and find the best boss in the game in it, that would be crazy especially if he had the same moveset which he most likely didn't, but the idea of mohg being a mini-boss is kinda scary
I’ve always thought the sewer mohg was an illusion made by morgott similar to how rennala second phase is an illusion made by ranni to protect her. When you kill the mohg in the sewer he disappears in a golden light like how margit does and he’s guarding a barrier made by morgott.
One thing you missed: Sewer Mohg is one of the only enemies in the game with COMPLETE immunity to all statuses. Normal Mohg doesn't do this. In fact, the only other enemy I know of that does this is the Golden Shade of Godfrey, implying there's intention in place for Sewer Mohg to have the same metaphysical properties as G.S. Godfrey. Morgott doesn't do this, probably because either they wanted an early semi-mandatory boss to be more forgiving to many different playstyles, or because his projections require a physical body unlike the other two. Doesn't contradict anything in the video, but it's a fun little piece of trivia.
Elden Beast is fully immune to Status Effects as well, though... in fairness, it is _the_ Elden Ring itself, made up of axioms about reality and all that shit. Would be surprised if such a thing could be poisoned or whatever.
It seems like it's likely to be somewhere in between. They probably had the enemy and were using it generically during development, and slowly shifted when and where it was used as Mohg's storyline got developed and refined. Development and writing are much more of an integrated and flexible process, and they're not quite the same as the process for something like a script for shooting a film. It's likely that most things in the game will have some degree of flexibility like this, though not all will be quite as overt in the trail of breadcrumbs nor will they necessarily move as much during development.
Could’ve also been possible that the associated places could’ve held some significance to him as a character. Like the Black Knife Catacombs and Rogier’s and Ranni’s quests. Maybe they had plans for the Lord of Blood to be harder to locate. Without a timeline its really up to speculation
An interesting lore theory that I saw was that the mohg in the sewers is also somehow a projection by morgott because even if you beat mohg first you still can't get to the three fingers without killing morgott due to a barrier behind it. In addition the mohg copy is fades to gold when it dies, which is kinda weird for an enemy of the golden order to do. So it's possible that morgott used a copy of his brother to help keep people from accessing the three fingers. I don't know why this copy would persist after his death, though.
His other copies also persist after his death. I found the transforming commoner long after I killed Morgott in my playthrough. I can't speak to whether Margit also does but it wouldn't surprise me.
The copy of Margit in the overworld will still be there even after you kill Morgott, it seems the illusions he makes operate independently from him, he just places them like a trap and leaves them to do his intent.
@TrainerblueTube It's actually really easy to miss, I was specifically looking for him just for completionism sake and it was a struggle to find him, even with general coordinates because everything looks the same in that particular area and a specific gangly old man doesn't really stand out.
@@ShaoShaoMienshao You find that to be a strong argument? Given there's no evidence to support it? Not the lineage but that somehow that lineage dictates an illusions death sparkles?
The Omen being Mohg's illusion makes the most sense. He won't stay in Leyndell, as he wishes for a new dynasty, but he also knows his brother needs help if they're gonna stop the Flame of Ruin from ending the world
So Mogh is the one who robbed me of the OG Milicent/Malenia quest, in which she called me "sweet Tarnished, dearest companion"? Alright, be right back, gotta put his foolish ambition to rest real quick
Given the presence of phantom Godfrey and phantom Loretta, as well as Morgott's own penchant for creating phantoms of himself, it's hardly surprising that Mohg at one point made a phantom of himself to block the path to the Three Fingers after discovering it in the sewers when he was younger and realizing that it was a Very Bad Thing That Must Not Be Disturbed.
Which is to say, it’s all just a really clever way to reuse a bunch of assets lmao There’s actually so few unique bosses when you think about it, it’s kinda sad.
@@DASCSWEM Not sad at all imo. It allowed them to put more time in to the level design which is at it's peak with this game, even the relatively simple reused dungeons are very fun to navigate. The only Legacy Dungeon that's at all bad is Redmane Castle, but it makes up for it with Radahn.
I mean considering he lives in an underground palace surrounded by red frog people protecting a dead god egg thing I don’t think the ability to astral project themselves is all that weird ;w;
@@tsm688 Idk bout you, but using astral projection to prevent some idiot from unleashing what equates to the heat death of the universe seems pretty damn important.
so interesting to see the scrapped miquella dialogue during the malenia fight. Idk if its too far fetched to think they didnt even change the 2nd phase cutscene and that this would explain the moment the tarnished looks up to the roots. Great vid Zullie!
I do find it fascinating how many twists and turns Fromsoft game plots take during development. And I'm glad we got Mohg in the end, one of the most memorable bosses for sure :D
It also kind of shows that from soft aren’t afraid to take risks when it comes to rewriting the plot in middle of developing the game. I really want to know what conversations they had that ended with these changes.
@@Gamerguy-ud1zo the whole vague story telling thing allows them to make contradictive stories while doing plot adjustments and cutting contents, just let the fans patch it for them
@@oldcowbb I’m not saying that this game is free from mistakes in its writing, but while I was playing the game I never really felt that lost in the world building. I feel this what the game is really going for is a natural way of discovering the events of the world they are exploring. Would you rather a natural experience of making your own character and putting yourself in their place of discovering all these events and people and enemies that stand in the way of the goal the game presented you or a linear experience that guides you directly to all this information you need to know to understand why this is happening, but in turn you have a more unique cast and dialogue in order to keep the player hooked. Both these styles have flaws and benefits. If you don’t like that they don’t fully explain somethings or change their minds on others then that’s fine, but I for one love the mystery it leaves with us. I feel changing the areas like this shows they care about how it’s presented to the player and if that’s what they think is best for the game then they can go on ahead and do it I understand that developing a game’s environment isn’t always that easy.
There seems to have been a lot of faction refinement going on toward the end of development. Like there is no lore explanation possible for why GreaterDemon would show up in all of these places, they aren't connected. They seem to have focused more toward having a more consistent world over all. I wonder if that was intentional. If they planned to just make a lot of pieces, play around with them and build the inspiration to place them properly later on or whether they just changed their minds.
I always assumed that neither was the real Mohg, they were both simply guarding potential threat to his plan. The twin for obvious reasons, but the frenzy fingers to prevent a competing outer god coming into power to contest his own.
It's very interesting how Mohg's storyline reflects on the role of Empyreans. He kidnaps Miquella specifically to act as the vessel of the Formless Mother, which would make Miquella a god and allow Mohg to become Blood Lord. This is a direct imitation of Marika's situation and has major parallels to both Malenia's and Ranni's story. An outer god(power), an empyrean(vessel), and a lord(agent) seem to be what's required to shape the world, and each of the endings seem to support that.
All of Zuzu's Vids... Are a sheer spectacle to behold. Oh my formless mother are they awesome... Thank you once again and forever more! You enlighten us so ever slightly with each one ^~^ hope you're doing well!
This is making me wonder about what the originally intended story of Elden Ring was, before they started changing and rewriting things. It might make for an interesting future video, reconstructing the original story from leftover references and oddities such as the Greater Demon model being loaded into multiple maps for no apparent reason. It'd take a lot of digging and looking into all the changes made by revisions to the game, and what hints to the original story direction can be gotten from them, but that's basically what you do on this channel.
Ahh thanks so much for your constant posts and updates. Your content is unique in its ability to soothe, inform and entertain. I truly hope you continue this upward trend and that you discovery many many more subjects and projects that pique your fancy and urge you to share more with us. Thanks so much!🥰🥰🥰
God Zullie, this unique thing you do is unparalleled in how interesting it is. And I love how you always make sure to remind us that we can these are only guesses. Keep up the great work!
Shame we didn't get that Miquella line because it's really cool. It doesn't lend itself as well to the openness of approach that the game has, but I wonder if there could have been a way to have both. Where you first encounter Miquella in Malenia's cutscene, but maybe after beating her, Mohg sweeps in and kidnaps him now that his guardian is vanquished. This then opens up the way to Mohgwyn dynasty and to the boss room where they both are, as normal.
Great video as always! I didn't even notice that He spawned in when that dialog played. I was too busy looking at the scenery and must have ran around him. xD Thank you!
Very interesting, especially the fact that Miquella had a voice actress, which likely means that he had voice lines recorded. Perhaps this means a Miquella DLC is more likely? Personally I would be all for that, as Miquella is a very interesting character already despite being physically contained to his cocoon for the time being.
Judging by the fact you find his image just before the frenzied flame catacomb, as well as a seal by Morgott himself, and the only reason you'd even be so far down is if you're Actively looking for the frenzied flame or if you got lost. I think it's safe to assume Mohg left a mirror image of himself as a means of defense since he is a strong boi...but I like to think that this was the last time the omen twins worked together.
I liked something someone else said about Mohg, The Omen, which is that the form that is left in the Sewers is the husk of his body left behind when he gave himself up to the Lord of Blood. His true form in Mohgwyn palace coalesces from the blood that seeps from the Empyrean Egg. Perhaps he now lives as an entity of blood, and the shell he left behind still guards place he used to hold dear. That explains why he is immune to bleed in the sewer, since all his blood has been drained already, it also explains why he would be in that location (he doesn't seem to hold any love for his brother or any desire to guard the frenzy flame). I also find that answer much more satisfying than "Mo-bros can project illusions" Credit to some other guy on the internet who I can't remember
Mogh, the omen is not just unaffected by bleed, he is immune to all statuses like Golden Godfrey e.g. It is clearly meant to confirm that he is an illusion, not an actual entity.
@@tinminator8905 Fair enough, but that isn't true of Morgott's projection in either instance of it. Something is definitely different between Morgott and Mohg. At the end of the day though, I only care about what makes for a more satisfying answer
In my mind, this adds considerable fuel to my theory that Bandai Namco pushed FromSoft to make the game bigger, and so they added the later areas: Mountaintop of the Giants, Consecrated Snowfield, Mohgwyn Palace, and maybe the Haligtree. I also think some or all of these areas were initially planned to be DLC before they changed course and made them for the main game. Miyazaki has said in interview that the scope of Elden Ring grew past what they were comfortable with multiple times. Bandai has a history of meddling in the projects they publish for FromSoft. Mohgwyn Palace and the Haligtree are the only two legacy dungeons reached by waygate. The obscure quest to get the alternative Rold key is textbook FromSoft DLC. Milllicent and Malenia's questline feels unfinished, and obviously Mountaintop didn't get enough time in the oven. Now we find out Mohg's boss fight was a late addition and it changed the story direction they had for Miquella and Malenia?
The mountaintops region and the Haligtree were depicted in early concept arts some years before the release. Though the Haligtree was by Liurnia instead.
Your videos are wonderful. I know you get this a lot, but the community around these games owes you so much. I always drop what I'm doing when you post a new video and watch it right away.
Great video (as per usual). I am glad Mohg was promoted to a greater role in the overall plot and I am really curious to see what his machinations will bring forth. For one, how will the plot concerning Miquella evolve? That's the thing I am looking forward the most in a future dlc.
It is interesting to note that in his rant about traitors, Morgott doesn’t include his brother despite his obvious traitorous behavior against the Golden Order. This implies that the two are on relatively good terms. As such, I believe the illusion of Mohg in the Sewers is somewhat of a favor to Morgott to aid in the safekeeping of the quarantine zone surrounding the Frenzied Flame.
He isn't a traitor to the golden order because the order never blessed him. He was tossed in the sewers and left to rot for being an Omen and having no grace of gold. Morgott coveted the grace he was not given, and Mohg spurned the Erdtree for giving him naught but suffering.
Or B. as this video implies, Mohg was a relatively late addition to Elden Ring's story. Morgott's Rant may have been recorded well before the Greater Demon model was repurposed into being his brother. That "Mohg" defends the quarantine zone is just a happy accident.
Thanks for this it actually had answered one of my questions about Miquella that Ive been curious about for a while. And its Miquella’s connection with the rot and the needle Millicent was given that was meant to transform her into something like Malenia’s second phase (if Im interpreting millicent’s quest correctly). So I am happy that I wasn’t completely luny for suspecting Miquella of scarlet rot shenanigans even if this is just cut content. I so so so so hope Miquella is the focus of the dlc because what their whole deal is impacts so many parts of the world and its characters motivations.
Morgott and Mohg are my favorite characters, and my favorite example of the game's themes of duality. The way that the twins experienced the same trauma, but reacted to it in exact opposite ways, fascinates me. I like to speculate a lot about their relationship, too. I take the fact that Morgott doesn't name Mohg before his boss fight to be an indicator that he may have a hard time condemning the only family he ever knew, whom he survived alongside, and whose trauma he acutely understands.
Always makes me laugh a little when people question the appearances of Morgott after the Margit fight. We literally see him teleport the projection in with the exact same effect as the fight outside the capitol, it dies with obvious magical particles and he says he'll remember you. How did so many people think he was dead there? A true mystery.
To me it looks like the Mogh we fight in the sewers is a decoy made of his own rememberance like when we fight the rememberance of Godfrey in the capital.
I think the chariot was supposed to ride Mohg, not the other way around. Imagine it, Mohg running down those halfways, a mad chariot on his back, driving him. Truly terrifying stuff.
