Electric Cars: Fatally Flawed? 

Never an um or argh, he's a class act for sure!

Hi we think he's at the top in motor journalism

He will be the best of the top gear bunch going forward, as he has stuck to automotive stuff..

I honestly don't understand why he doesn't get a million views for each video.

@@dgg7377 that’s generally everyone on TV. No?

Volkswagen are recycling older EV batteries in their purpose built plant in Germany. I understand they plan other battery recycling facilities elsewhere too. A UK company - Technology Minerals - is also looking to move into EV battery recycling in the near future. The company is fronted by the brother of Martin Brundle, the former F1 driver, and they plan to open 5 recycling sites in the UK.

The BBC is no longer reputable but WOKE, purveying lies & distortion as 'news' along with the rest of the media, government and academia. Pandering to Islam is the prime example of this but there are many others. Those of us who migrated many years ago look back on the time when Britain really was a free democratic nation; now she is the laughing stock of the world. The BBC is the Government's 'Ministry of Truth' which must be replaced as part of the process of destroying sickening WOKE culture.

Not white enough

I mean he is here on auto trader probably took the better contract 🤷

Men behaving like schoolboys loses it appeal very quickly. Rory tells me things I want to know about cars in a super competent and relatable manner.

No one will ever be as good as Clarkson/Hammond/May.

How many phone batteries can be made out of 1 electric car battery? When we fully change to electric vehicles phones and laptops will make not even 5% of lithium used.

@@themarenda just think how many phones with lithium batteries have been made since late 1980s and even worse that now they are not removable form the phone without taking it to a shop. Don't look at the phone in your hand and think its a little bit, this year alone their at nearly 5 billion mobile phone users

@@rtfazeberdee3519 and there will be 2 billion car users with 500 pound batteries, i know there are alot of phone batteries but that waste is going to be many times bigger with electric cars. And phones have lithium batteries since cca 2000, before that phones were huge and heavy mostly due to nickel batteries, but amount of mobile phones back then makes it insignificant for todays numbers

@@themarenda By the time there are 2 billlion EVs on the planet, recycling will be very advanced and we'd be closer to a circular market. EV batteries last a lot longer and go to 2nd use before even getting to recycling so the life cycle is long. Recycling processes for batteries could have been 20 years more advanced if the phone/computer companies etc got their fingers out and started it. Getting all environmental about it now because EVs use it is like throwing stones in a glass house since no-one cared about it before.

@@rtfazeberdee3519Thats the point of this video to think today about problems of tommorrow, EU is going full electric by 2035, i hope you're right about recycling

And Tesla has developed cobalt free batteries. They’re literally months away from mass production in their 4680 battery cells, and Lithium Iron Phosphate LFP Tesla batteries made by CATL don’t require cobalt presently.

Yes let's destroy billions of dollars in buildings(petrol stations, workshops small wreaking yards etc) and peoples jobs (all types of mechanic's,tanker drivers,etc) and only a few out of 1,000 electricians know how to safety operate on a ev battery most people on a dummy test would have died all I can see happening is the creative/passionate people making/buying bio fuel's keeping there old M3s to Mustangs to Nissan gtr's going then the people that can't afford wasting time charging so they go to hydrogen then the city people with fuel EVs like someone said everything has its place and everything servers a different purpose for different reasons. I imagine Every town/city and country will be different since every person is different they will choose a different car to suit them individuals and businesses alike

@@holden2260 With this aggression sounds like you must be an American who is passionate for V8 Trucks who are unecessary/cluncky/loud but yet high cultural thing. :D

@@skytehpanda no a Holden commodore Ute owner 😁

Completely inaccurate to the reality of lithium mining. It is incredibly damaging to the environment and anything that says lithium mines create clean water is laughable. The entire process lays waste to millions of acres, is highly toxic and very dangerous. Politically, since the majority of it is controlled by China, it's a human rights as well as economic hotbed. The fact is that battery production and recycling is a major problem that needs to be overcome. Half truths won't get us there.

Micro tolls perhaps, a car tax according to milage perhaps.. but increased electricity charges are a no no.. VAT is currently 5% and it could go up but it would be a vote loser.. and you could just buy solar panels and make you own fuel. Alternatively they could just increase general taxation to fill the hole

No, it won't go onto electricity because it can't. It would wreck the economy. It would put almost every business out of action. A system of road tolls will replace fuel duty once the point is reached where there are more EV's on the roads. Road tolls will apply to ALL vehicles, not just electric cars.

Me too man!

yep, I made the swap from ICE to electric (M6 to Model S), and he's spot-on

naaaa

Yer great bloke to watch. top gear messed up by getting rid of him from the show.

😂😂😂 At least try doing some research . 90 + % efficient 😂😂😂

@@Isclachau I said the motor, not the whole car.

@@matthewwatt2295 Modern petrol engines are around 45% efficient. There's huge inefficiencies in our power grid, lots of energy is lost through joule heating in transmission lines and also through the process of AC-DC-AC conversion and voltage step up/down. The difference in carbon footprint between coal powered electricity used for EV and petrol cars is surprisingly small but you can't ignore the fact that most electricity in the UK comes from cleaner sources such as gas, nuclear, wind, hydro and solar

@@stevec6427 Modern petrol engines are up to 40% (Toyota claims their engines are 41%) but only under certain loads and engine speed scenarios. So mostly still very inefficient. No petrol engine can be as efficient as an electric motor, mainly because the petrol engine converts most of the energy from the gasoline into heat.

​@@Isclachau you suggesting Matthew Watt is materially wrong? Please provide workings to prove your point. Not just derisive emojis.

Tesla has not, Panasonic the company providing the batteries has.

@@bowez9 Have you heard of the 4680 cell? It’s Tesla direct.

@@wattlebough that number is only a deminsional classification, and if you look into it you will see that ALL of Tesla batteries are from suppliers and NOT made by Tesla

@@bowez9 The point is that Tesla will be making its own 4680s in-house. Not through an outside supplier. Eventually 4680s will be made by LG Chem, Panasonic and Tesla.

@@wattlebough no LG, Samsung and Panasonic manufacturer 4680 currently. Where I believe your confusion lies is it on site production -but Tesla is not making them.

Absolutely, so the West has to now force those countries to reduce their carbon emissions, but we know they won’t because they benefit from these other countries ain’t it?

you transport your polluting industries to the poor countries and pontificate how they "pollute" more. Shame on your ilk who not only have much, much higher historical emissions but also much, much higher per capita emissions right now.

In spite of all the polluting industries shipped there, the per capita emissions of those nations are way lower than the western world's. An average western human is far more damaging to the earth.

People like to bash on China for being such a heavy polluter (which they are) what a lot of people dont know is that China is heavily focused on renewables and a sustainable future. They are pouring lots of money into this area. More so than any other country at the moment.

True. We are indirectly doing the pollution ourselves.

???? Isn't that Electric car supposed to have some flaws behind it? EV's aren't perfect. They always focus on what's good about it, and never talk about the consequence behind it.

He was stating the arguments that the "other side" (read: backwards, ignorant science-denying fools) are making against EVs, then he countered these arguments. Rory has done his research perfectly fine.

Quote: "What is needed is a new sub £15k EV that can can carry 4 people with a 150 miles range. Not £50k EV SUVs." Boom! Nailed it! The most spot-on post in this entire thread. Well said, BIG JIM!

2 tier system again. The haves and have-nots.

No they are not. "Cheaper" if the government (other people) subside your car. Then you charge in a supercharger for free (that other people pay for that). And there is no residual value vo EV car after 15 years.

Most people, at least in the UK, buy their cars on finance. I've just purchased a small BEV and the difference between the monthly payments between ICE and EV is offset by my monthly saving on fuel. Total cost of ownership will likely work out lower for me over the next 3 years and my upfront cost is no higher. Just my 2 cents.

So buy a used one. They cost less. There are EV specific dealers around now....

Didn’t think about the residial value. Good point.

Blue is autotrader color 😁

Totally agree ! 😉

Yeah, but your Nissan Leaf is pants 🤘

Who said anything about a Leaf

But what if battery dies after warranty period? That will cost huge

@@jamesmayhew7 what else is it going to be? Either a Leaf (with a now 5yr old degraded battery - down to about 70miles range now if you're lucky), or a Renault Zoe (same battery tech as the Leaf, but that's a girl's car so unlikely to be what you drive). If I'm right, that car is now worth about £3k tops

Or better still, complain to the nations whom still allow child labour. It might do more good than complaining about it here. Child labour and exploitation isn't a direct result of electric cars being built. It was going on 200 years ago. You choose to mention it here because it fits your agenda.

protecting? NOT IN MARXIST WAY

@@artureff3046 Marxism is having clean air that doesn't give you lung conditions.

thats one thingi have always said about Rory. even if u dont personally love the car , you would still love the video of that car. i remember he made me fall in love with 2020 (bentley flyingspur and audi a8) . thanks to Rory i will still buy those cars no matter when.

To raise electricity prices to including-tax-fuel-prices you would have to raise the tax on electricity to way beyond the +-70% tax you already pay on fuel in the UK. Tax electricity like that would utterly cripple the country (esp. manufacturing) ... Or far more likely drive a very big proportion of the UK population (those lucky enough to have houses with a roof) into solar panels. You going to tax the electricity for boiling the kettle or running the microwave just so you can get back to where ICE cars can stay competitive (on price) in 2027? You have to be joking. Unless you the no there is a reasonable way to tell which electrons are used for charging an EV from the electrons used to cook food. Unlike fuel you can't just add a colour dye to the electrons and then check after the fact.

The car tax situation appears to be moving towards a pay-per-mile scheme. (Which personally I'm not I favour of) So could cost you more per year to tax than your current ICE car, if you do high milage.

@@aidanapword With smart meters, this could be applied to charging EVs,s and not homes. The government of the day will find a way. Supermarket charging will be the first step but new technology will ensure all car chargers pay higher taxes. Or as someone has already started by the mile charges will take up the slack. EVs will never be a cheaper way to drive. Remember when the Labor government encouraged everyone to drive diesel cars? EVs will be the next bad thing to use and be taxed off the road.

Yes but that will not happen anytime soon. As ICE is still the dominant type of cars on the road. Soo you are just fear mongering something which has no real effect. We can't magically replace all the ICE cars within 2 decades.

@@charlesholder8009 STOP with the political BS. Smart Meter is NOT possible because OFF GRID electric generation exist. Government would need insane policies where they tax OFF Grid Electric Generation. BEVs can be fueled / charge by off grid methods. Unlike ICE which you only can buy from Big Corporation. You are soo blinded by political ideology you fail to understand engineering reality.

I think that would be mine Mike!! It actually takes me around 6 seconds to plug in/unplug......and I only need to do it around every 8 to 9 days. I haven't set foot on a petrol station forecourt for 2 years now. I don't miss standing in a puddle of spilt diesel, holding a filthy nozzle in place until the car was full. Then paying through the nose for it....

Soo you bought a 100 Mile EV several years ago? Yep those were stupid. It's less about EVs being expensive, more about technology maturity. Those low mileage BEVs were not cheap. The same amount of money could by a much longer range vehicle.

Funnily enough I did a similar journey in my EV the other day with no problem. All second hand car prices are on the rise. Due to the fall in new cars sales there’s less second hand cars on the market and prices are on the up.

@@Neojhun I had a Zoe ZE40 (bought with battery paid for in 2017 for £17800 new after some haggling - £6200 discount - not something they would give you now). Sold it last year for £13600 after 20k miles and it cost next to nothing to run. Summer range was 180-190 miles and winter 140-150 miles. Since then prices seem to have risen substantially (a Renault dealer wanted my car plus £17k for a new ZE50 GT Line). The Zoe only charged at 22kw max (good job I hardly ever needed to fast charge). I sold it because it was too dull to drive and to look at, I also missed having a convertible (I had one for 10 years prior to the Zoe and regretted changing pretty much straight away though it took me a while to admit this to myself).

@@robsmith1a Imagine the Possibilities of Self Charging EVs offering massive back2Grid power... Yes all that without using fossil fuel nor solar... someone has invented it...

@@barakathegenius self charging how? A solar panel would take weeks to charge up a car.

Unfortunately you are a minority probably. But hey, the Citroen e-dispatch / Peugeot e-Expert can tow 1 tonne braked. So that's pretty good going. And can carry a tonne as well on a daily basis. It looks really good. Hopefully soon you'll be able to tow higher loads.

Yeah because the majority of the UK population tow 2/3 tons all the time. Um no. So, as you point out there are some use cases (especially outlier ones like yours) that are not catered for by EVs ... That's true. But it is also changing (just at a speed in proportion to the prevalence of the use case(s)). In terms of moving big stuff (and towing) and so much more there are three NGS like the Ford F150 Lightning coming. Too big for UK road (absolutely, yes) but check out the prices of such in the US market (where large parts of the population do drive trucks and (allegedly) a bigger proportion of the population tow big stuff (allegedly) all the time). That's close to purchase price parity as any other F150 already ... Especially when you remember you don't have to buy (and run) a powerful generator.

WRONG, you are a niche minority which BEVs should not cater to. There is such limited BEV production capacity. They can not cater to every single use case like Towing. No stick to Hybrid ICE. That is a logically flawed argument only to deny even bothering to attempt BEVs. Brainwashed false argument.

@@Jedimack7 "0.06% of all new cars last year were EVs." YOU LIAR! Depending on region BEVs Pure Electric are low single digit Percentage somewhere around 2-6% of the market. You are a liar propagandist.

@@SnazzySki98 the UK has a tax on CO2 g/100km (or whatever the scale is they use). And the UK has huge taxes on every litre. Neither of these are "displacement tax" they are efficiency taxes.

Motorsports was always justified (at least for last 20 or so years) based on the idea that it drives technological advance in mainstream motoring (ref: all the rules and changes regarding power trains in Formula 1, and so much more). Without that the Motorsports of burning stuff is just a vanity, and a wasteful one at that.

I don`t think its even feasible for them to make both though. Plus eventually we will have a new generation of people who grew up with electric cars and won`t understand why old people like gas.

@@SnazzySki98 I like the sound of the boxer engine that was in my Subaru, but I also like the way my Bolt sings to me when I floor it. The sounds are different, and I get that change is scary, but they're not bad. The tire squeal is the same. :) I especially like the 200hp, and 250ft/lb of torque in the Bolt. Blows my old 'Roo out of the water by far. Driving anything fast is involved, whether it's electric or gasoholic. Besides, how much theater is there in NASCAR cars driving in circles for hours on end :P

@@SnazzySki98 it's more than 6% of global emissions ... from your own comment: "oil extraction and petroleum refining make up about 10% of emissions" ... so that's 10+6 ... and if you think it is all solely about the CO2 emissions you haven't really been following have you? And you ignore the enviromental impact of the poor soul sitting in a dingy little kiosk so folks can pour their flammable liquids into a tank and then pay for it. "So if you are really ignorant enough to believe that motorsports and ICE enthusiast cars are significantly wasteful," -> so what does ICE motorport acheive other than entertainment? It used to achieve innovation and improvements in safety. And it's worth noting that performance improvements that many of us enjoyed for many years used to come from the ICE motorsports world ... but then that's a sticky wicket for arguing about now that ICE performances is trailing badly. As regards eFuel - that's a wash in itself. It's a thing called Nitrous Oxide - and heaven only knows the upstream impacts of it's production ... and if it's "just a porsche" or "just for motorsport" thing it will never acheive scale (and a whole bunch of environmentall impacts from that too). The future is not "alternative fuels" for the simple reasons based in the laws of physics. Combustion is a wasteful thing to do, end of discussion. I don't give a monkeys what fuel you use *for cumbustion* because it is the combustion that is the problem. And if you think the laws of physics aren't relevant to this discussion then I have a suspicion that I am not th ignorant one.

Couldnt have said better myself. Tough to get it through some rather challenged people.

Yes, Engineering Explained did a video about this and the conclusion was the only time a gas car is better for the environment than an EV is if the EV is being charged on 100% coal and you're comparing a sports sedan made for performance (Tesla model S) to a small super efficient hybrid hatchback (Toyota Prius). And this assumed that the grid is not going to switch to natural grass or renewable sources and that the cars are going to be retired after about 10 years.

And coal power plants haven't been mainstream in UK energy supply for a number of years ... It's only Poland that - in Europe at least - that really lags on and this and even in that scenario (and assuming you build the batteries in Poland, which we don't) where there is anything left for ICE to suggest it takes significant time to reach impact parity.

I giant diesel engine in a cruise/cargo ship emits a load more emissions

@@_Rafiki. again same thing applies, those big engines in cargo ships are pretty efficient, and considering the amount of stuff one ship can carry, still every single person driving a combustion engine is worse.

Hit the nail right there mate. They are fast but pretty much that's it

Emotions my ass.

Most people don't give a Donald Duck about their cars having "emotion". They just want fuss free, reliable transport.

I had two V8 AMGs before, currently Model S 2021 and fully agree on thats what missing. Its not that bad but its missing. Otherwise the Model S is superior in every way other way.

@@Brian-om2hh I care and I know I'm not that only one.

Fantastic, Moses! You are one of the best presenters I have ever seen talking about Electric Cars. You are great!

Exactly ! I'm from South Africa and hopefully Africa as a whole can catch up. Let's get our governments to watch this video

@@tshiamomogale207 Imagine the Possibilities of Self Charging EVs offering massive back2Grid power... Yes all that without using fossil fuel nor solar... someone has invented it...

It might be a long time until people there figure out the benefits and values of participating in that cause on the individual level in their behaviors towards their environment, especially the urban environment. For now the leaderships communities, even religious leaders are completely oblivious to emissions. Outreach in local languages could be a start as we've seen it for the global health awareness.

not necessarily, unless costs is your only measure in which case that could be true. though if you do a lot of km's and care about the environment, switching can be great.

That can make sense on an individual basis and is often the most fiscally responsible path for an individual. But in the bigger picture, if you're trading in a used car that will be used by someone else, it is likely not a problem (ideally, your used ICE will replace an older less efficient car owned by someone else). New cars will be bought either way, and it is better in my opinion that the new cars be EVs.

@@OhMyLaurens you need to do a lot of kms for that to be true. If half of the emission of a car are from manufacturing and half from using (petrol), you would need to travel at least 2 or even 3 times more than the average. I'm pro EV, but buy them if you need a new car, not if you just fancy a new car to show off.

@@therealolds sure, and if you do just a couple thousand a year it won't be a big saving but certainly if you're driving a very old car it could. and as you said, if you have to upgrade anyway certainly a good pick. you've got your statistics wrong on how much more is polluted in the manufacturing of an EV over an ICE vehicle though. it's 50-150% more depending on battery size. after about a year you've polluted less.

Good point, presuming reasonable efficiency.

Elon musk is awful doug demuro is awful

Keeping it charged up is key to getting the best from a plug-in hybrid though.

@@Brian-om2hh Definitely, that’s why I’m going to keep my petrol car till I move house and can install a home charger. The good thing about where I live is that most places I go also have chargers but they are still slow 7KW chargers rather than the higher end rapid chargers. There is only one rapid charger (100KW max) in my town and it’s at the petrol station ironically.

Part of the problem there I guess is there is no "entry-level" spec for EVs. Since it's still a small market the manufacturers are positioning EVs as premium models and slamming on all the bells and whistles they can to justify the high price. Understandable I guess but is it holding back the mass adoption of BEVs?

@@NickFoster all good points. Also: manufacturers are pricing EVs at the prices people are prepared to pay for them (as is ever the way) in balance with the levels o demand they can deliver against. Tesla chose a different path (and suffered for it, as have all the quality issues that so many people (out of ballance) moan and groan about).

Automatic transmission EVs? Hehe ;)

@@NickFoster There is, in China. When these vehicles get to the UK or the EU you'll see much cheaper entry level vehicles, and they ARE coming there. BYD for instance is putting out a $16,000 vehicle that gets really good range for that price point and they make their own batteries so they have a solid business. They have about the best recharge cycle life, I don't know how long the batteries can still hold good charge after X amount of years, but if they will last as long as their charge cycles then you could have a 15 - 20 year battery pack. I'd have to do more research on that one though. They use LFS batteries not Li-Ion. They're called blade batteries. Overheating isn't an issue for them and they're probably the safest batteries on the market for EVs. China from what I understand already has companies that are making European brand vehicles since those companies are under joint ownership and partly Chinese ownership. So maybe you see a Chinese brand entry vehicle or a European brand entry vehicle, but they are coming. Why this is happening in China is because they have a few companies that have been working at EV production longer and harder than every other company other than Tesla. Even with Tesla though it's expected they'll have a vehicle in the low 20s USD by the end of the decade. The issue is these companies have to make a lot of profit at first to scale up production and pay for building new factories, so that almost forces them to focus first on the higher end market where they make better margins.

@@wss33 ??? Most EVs have a gearbox to step down the speed of the motor to what's appropriate to move the tires. But, as you get into heavier vehicles, it creates a problem even for EVs. There are 3 good ways to deal with that. One is you can make an auto transmission but it's only 2 or 3 gears, and this is so you don't have to over-engineer the drive parts or you could destroy parts, twist metal, etc... because you need so much torque when starting out. You can use a CVT as another solution. Or, you use a motor for each wheel that will move the vehicle, and this is assuming 4+ wheels as trucks get heavier so 4+ motors. Any of those solutions work

Not just Tesla internally, but former CTO JB Straubel set up an entire company to further improve recycling methods called Redwood Materials. That's how dedicated they are to getting the job done.

Yes Tesla figured out there batteries issue for it to be more efficient and recyclable

@@lip124 and they charge you US $6000 to take it from you to be recycled too. After the US $12,000 minimum to supply and fit your new battery.

National Grid have stated many times they can cope. There is ‘enough’ electricity. Base load and peak use is the issue, and actually electric cars can help with that as they can charge overnight and can take energy from renewables like wind when they are over producing. With VTG (vehicle to grid) technology it is hoped they can then sell the energy back to the grid when needed and effectively smooth the peaks and troughs. Energy production in outright terms is not the issue. The UK used 357 TW hours of electricity in 2005 and we have been declining in use ever since down to 287 last year although some of that was lockdown related (but 301 TWh in 2019). Have a look at the national grid website. Graeme Cooper pop’s up all over the place. He recently did a good sit down chat with Chris Harris on Top Gear to chat though this very issue. Well worth a watch.

@@matpat2636 that’s a great answer and interesting how our consumption has reduced which is a good sign. Thanks 👍🏼

@@teamloony mat pat has covered most things very well. There is ALSO the fact that the grid changes are only need over th 15 or so years for the 2017/18->2028/29 ICE vehicles to fall out of service. That said: I wonder how many ICE vehicles will sell in 2029 when people start seeing the fuel stations closing down and the real "range anxiety" actually come about ...

@@aidanapword It's unlikely there will be many (if any) new ICE vehicles for sale in 2029. Some car makers have already stated they will be moving to 100% EV production in the next 4 to 5 years. Audi have announced that they will be producing their final ICE cars for the European market in 2026......

Hydrogen is still difficult to produce cleanly

@@dietznutz1 And energy inefficient. For domestic vehicle use it just doesn't make any sense.

Cella was widely thought to be a scam.

Yeah, until there's more of them.

@@Robert-cu9bm yeah, suppose the fact there are not too many about affects value. But so does the service life. If a car has a life expectancy of 8 years it will depreciate quicker than if it’s 14 years.

@@davidkerr4103 What cars only live 8yrs?... modern cars go for 150k.

Oddly David, there are those out there whom seem to feel the opposite is true, and that EV's are virtually worthless after just a few years. Clearly, that is not the case....

Doesn't have to be, where i live is coal electric plant which have roughly 30% efficiency, out of that 85% is left after charging so 25.5% and then is 80% efficient to bring that to the wheels which brings it to 20,4% which can be beat by many modern internal combustion engines and that is without considering the pollution from lithium extraction. And by that i don't think conventional cars are greener but that we are not there yet, we have to get electricity out of cleaner sources

@@themarenda absolutely agree, it depends on how the power is generated. That said the fraction of the energy mix provided by renewables is only going one way, so its only getting better over time.

The issue is scalability. We don't have the power-station infrastructure to support EVs on the required scale. That will be costly in itself. If it were feasible to power your EV from solar or wind, that would be even more costly as we still need power stations for base load supply. I.e. it is necessary to pay the capital infrastructure costs 2 x because wind is unreliable.

@@themarenda a concern with your analysis here: very rarely in any major economy anywhere in the the world over is coal the majority source for electricity (an unsaid assumption you make). Very very rarely in fact. Poland is the worst offender for this in Europe. Poland is the 7th most populous country in Europe (ignoring Russia), and the population in Poland is 10% of the top 7 combined. Poland - being the worst offender - got 80% (not 100%) of it's energy from coal (of various grades) in 2018 (which, in energy terms, is ancient history) and trending down all the time. The UK (a significantly bigger part of the top 7 populations) goes many months without burning *any* coal (though it does still use natural gas). And you forget the impact of local emissions. And you forget that the emissions from coal plants are fast becoming sources of income (and not cost) for those plants so they are cleaning up their act (because it just makes economic sense). Buy an ICE car now and you set in motion (if you will) emissions for the next 15 years of internal combustion of a limited resource. You still think your "analysis" will hold any sway or be in any way relevant in 12 or 15 years' time? Think again.

@@jamescaley9942 We're putting trusty coal power stations back online because the wind didn't blow over summer and now we can't get power from France.

@@phileasfogg3536 At the point where we were encouraged to drive diesel, not only was the focus on CO2, but viable electric cars didn't exist. This is all about urban air quality - a concern since the 1960's and associated fines and healthcare costs. Things are forced on people all the time through legislation and it this case nobody will stop someone from driving a internal combustion powered vehicle after 2030, just that there will not be any new ones on sale.

An ID3 isn’t the same price as a hybrid 😂 and the range on my 2.0 hybrid Corolla is FAR beyond the reach of your ID pee before needing to stop anywhere. It also doesn’t run out of puff after it hits 100 kph…🙄

@@ShotByAScot the RAV4 I had was ‘from £30k’, my pre-registers ID.3 Pro cost me £30K. Looks the same to me?

@@bluerallyes2 Well no. The RAV-4 isn’t in the same class as an ID3, is it? The Corolla would be the Toyota hybrid equivalent by body type and size/capacity. Which is much cheaper 👍🏼

@@ShotByAScot never said it was in the same vehicle class. Said it was a better package (£ for £) in my opinion. For £30k I’d take the VW every time personally. The RAV4 did nothing particularly well apart from the blind spot monitor. The chassis was crashy, the engine noisy, the drivetrain confused and the ACC was just untrustworthy. Even came off the motorway early to try the EV mode and it gave me just 4 miles (if I kept under 30). I’d rather have the pure petrol / diesel one *if* I had to take one.

@@bluerallyes2 Hybrids aren’t for motorway driving. I’d agree the RAV4 is old and showing it, but that’s hardly a good example to base a “hybrids are pants” view on. They’re actually still more everyday practical and what you would expect when driving a car, than most EV cars. The ID3 is pretty cool, not knocking it. Just your incorrect generalization of hybrids 😉

taycan rwd? they will make a cabriolet

@@BayernFan05 sorry forgot to say it's got to be reasonably affordable. Like 50k i can do 150-200 really is too much. Basically electric competition for an MX5, Z4 or a new SLK.

Just a random thought, I ain’t no professional but how on earth will they fit an acceptably sized battery in a roadster without making the roadster bigger? No idea how Tesla have cracked it. I definitely cannot see something like a mazda mx5/miata with a battery good for 150 plus miles…but who’s know? I may eat my words in the next 5 years.

@@akubel33t i don't know. You might be right, but right now I drive the last gen SLK. (I don't fit in a Miata) And i wouldn't want to go back to a normal car. A hot hatch maybe, but then it's gotta be really good. And so far like the VW GTX, and TBH the last GTIs too, are more nippy GTs than fun cars. I've heard good things about the Honda E, but that has the price/range issue. Hopefully once japanese brands get serious about EVs we'll get some good ones. Oh and BTW, while Toyota is lagging behind massively in EVs, they are the leader in solid state batteries which are generally considered the next big thing. So far no proof of concept though, just a ton of patents.

Try a Twizy. They are fun.

Electric cars are so much fun to drive already - Hill starts, hill climbing & overtaking, are just so much fun. A couple of weeks ago I was following a Merc doing about 54mph on the A449 between Ledbury and Malvern in Herefordshire, at the foot of the climb up the Malvern Hills the Merc slowed down to about 51 - it's that poor old slow petrol engine thing, so as the road ahead was straight and empty I overtook, 51 to 74 in a second or so, up a steep hill. EVs don't really notice hills, they just climb. Multiple lane traffic lights - you always win. Round-a-bouts - EVs reliably accelerate and can therefore fit into smaller gaps in the traffic then you would dare to attempt in a petrol car. Initial Costs are high, but as Rory said total cost of ownership makes EVs cheaper and, if you drive more than 11k a year, most likely cheaper than a petrol car. You take the money saved on fuel and use it to pay for a higher monthly leasing bill. As for infrastructure, if, and it's a big if, you have a drive and can get a car charger (standard UK are 7kWh) you only occasionally charge away from home. Finally, Kerb appeal, have a look at the Kia EV6 & or Hyundai Ioniq5. These are Hyundai's (who own Kia) 3rd generation EVs and the first that aren't designed to be both a petrol car and an EV.

@@ianmurray250 EV cars are not cheaper to own, but yes they might be cheaper to lease by saving gas money towards lease payments. But leasing cars every few years (3yrs - 5yrs) is more expensive than buying a used cheap car and keeping it for 10 or 15 years. EV cars are generally still for upper middle class or the wealthy.

@@chesspro22k64 They are actually cheaper to own, if you factor in fuel and maintenance. They are more expensive upfront, but multiple studies have shown they are cheaper to own long term due to the reasons listed above.

Initial cost? I've seen Renault Zoe's for sale at £6k....

Agreed on this one I feel like hydrogen would make a better solution than just electricity and heavy battery packs

Yes good idea

@@vinithvindula7336 until you stop and count what the cost of the hydrogen network is. And that FCEV is not appreciably better than BEV. And that FCEV (even with an efficient green-hydrogen source and network) is never going to achieve the same levels of efficiency or safety. And that having to go somewhere to fill the car up is a right PITA.

@@vinithvindula7336 problem with hydrogen is the amount of power needed to produce it. There will be uses for it but mass adoption for personal transport is unlikely.

Hydrogen ICE engines are an even worse idea than hydrogen fuel cells (for private cars). Hydrogen ICE engines emit harmful levels of NOx. We have to move completely away from the idea of burning stuff to produce energy.

A system of Road Tolls is to replace lost and diminishing fuel duty. The tax burden will switch from fuels to actual road usage. This will mean that even the guy who charges his EV up from electricity produced free via solar, will still pay his share for the upkeep of the roads.

Oh dear, here we go yet again..... The vast majority of EV manufacturers have signed a pledge to buy *only* ethically sourced lithium. The Chinese however, continue to purchase unethically sourced lithium. This fact has been verified by Amnesty International. If exploiting makes your stomach churn, take a look at where your clothes were made. India, Pakistan, Thailand etc, all have sweatshops, with kids producing clothes. You do wear clothes I take it? If child labour is an issue for you, then try complaining to those whom still allow it to continue. It may have more effect than complaining about it here..... And here's something else to consider. The oil companies have been mining cobalt for DECADES. They use it to remove sulphur during the refining process. Has that ever concerned you previously?

Vey true Mike. I have seen (albeit a little while back) Nissan Leafs (Leaves?) being offered at £200 per month......

That is not the case in America. Fanboys keep the resale values of Teslas high, but every other EV on the market depreciates at 2-3 times the rate of ICE. Even Ford admits they don't expect the Mach-E to retain more than 30% of it's initial value after four years. It's so bad they even created a different payment structure that works like a lease, but with a balloon payment at the end of the term, so they could keep monthly payments down. The depreciation on EVs is so bad it negates any savings on maintenance and most, if not all of the savings at the pump. Especially if you live somewhere, like I do, where gas is $3/gallon and electricity is 14 cents a kWh. The savings vs a hybrid is less than 4 cents a mile. Not enough to make up for the higher initial purchase price. And public charge stations charge more than double the residential rate so an EV would actually cost you more per mile if you frequently fast charge. We also don't get the tax incentives the UK has. A more expensive car pays more taxes, regardless of its "fuel" or efficiency.

Because 'Merica, and the countries copying us. Because corporations want to sell every person they can their own expensive toy that requires constant maintenance and fuel rather than socializing, or communizing, the transportation to make it cheaper and more efficient. Snark aside we should do both, but conservatives and corporations keep getting in the way.

Because it's not private and doesn't give as much freedom.

@@Jcewazhere couldn’t have said it better.

@@hi9580 Both are things that people should be willing to give up during their weekly commute/usual errands since the whole point is to save the planet.

@@ashdtx3267 It doesn't leave from my house and to where I want to be. I don't have someone with BO next to me. I have the temperature I want. I can stop when and where I want. I can listen to music as loud as I want.

I doubt it'll be new, as I rather fancy they'll have ceased production by then. I haven't heard BMW's plans as yet, but Audi have stated they will be producing their final ICE cars for the European market in 2026...

@@Brian-om2hh The 2.5TFSi V5 2022 is the last one in the RS3 Model

Yeah, they often have second lives in power-wall systems, etc. It's a bit odd to talk about the % of batteries currently getting recycled, because most are no where near old enough for that, just yet.

Quite correct.

@@Mike.W.Dasher There are a lot of dead EV battery cells... probably more than you think. The nissan leaf is now 10years old. less than 5% of all dead nissan leaf batteries have been recycled. It isn't cost effective to recycle them... yet

@@TheComputec It might not be an unwise investment to buy up those old Leaf batteries and store them somewhere. Assuming they're extremely cheap and no one wants them. Could be worth a penny in the future. My point was just that EV's are still a relatively new thing, so battery recycling will no doubt ramp up in the future. As you say, the scales of economy aren't good enough just yet, maybe, but that will change in the not-too-distant future. Though I'm now wondering if the numbers quoted in the video included batteries from cellphones and laptops...

ICE cars will never die. At worst they'll become a novelty for collectors or enthusiasts. Add to that, we can easily run ICE vehicles on other things than diesel and gasoline, so even if the crude oil industry completely disappears we will still be able to get fuel for them. We can even make fuel for them at home on the stove.

Yes very nice!

I think long-distance lorries, ships and racing cars are the target vehicle group of the synthetic fuels, not the general consumer. Plus, don't count on Porsche and Siemens to bring this to market in the quantities whereby everyone in developed countries globally can access it, at least for the time being. Last I heard, they're only producing 500000 gallons of e-fuels in the first few years of their project. That said, I'd love to see them succeed because it is impractical for those classes of vehicles I just mentioned to go electric.

Most people and the vast majority of use cases the BEV already delivers (in spades) everything they need.

It’s not being developed with the idea of replacing petrol/diesel for the average motorist. Just for Porsche to use at their experience days and for racing. It’s far too expensive and still pollutes.

You won't ever see it. Porsche intend it to be used to sustain their track racing activities. If it ever does go on general sale, expect it to cost 3 to 4 times more than petrol does now. That's how much the presently available synthetic petrol (Aspen) costs....

Driving an Ev’s has own way of having fun and these can be really enjoyable, once you try the right car there is no way back .

EVs will never authentically provide the sound of an internal combustion engine; however, the sound, heat, and vibration produced by an ICE is nothing more than wasted energy. It's also already common for newer ICE cars to pipe in fake engine sounds through the speaker. I actually enjoy the quietness of driving an EV. I love driving a manual transmission, and I prefer a single gear EV over any automatic transmission. Driving an EV with a high level of regen feels a lot like engine braking in a manual ICE.

What you are experiencing is learned behaviour. It meant nothing to you before you ever drove a car. You learned it, you will unlearn it in time.....

It’s really not better at all.

hopefully you will find something soon. there are quite a few really nice EVs out there.

@@Spotter-What do you mean?

Same here, once I can buy 1-2 year old EV with decent range for under 15k I'll be up for it

You don't necessarily need to consider range so much if there is rapid charging available..... Plus you don't always need to *fully* charge, you could simply put enough in to get you home, and onto your own tariff. MY Kia has almost 300 miles range when fully charged. I did a 520 mile round trip about 18 months ago, and stopped just *once* for 45 minutes to charge up to full using a 100kw charger. That got me home, and I charged at home through the night at 5p per kw. A full charge is around £7 to £8 for my car. I usually charge around every 8 to 9 days.

Why buy new? I got a 2017 Bolt Premier for $15k last year. Teslas are expensive, but they're not the only EV on the market, especially in the EU/Britain. Just stay away from Leafs. The batteries last a lot longer than people getting paid to spread FUD would have you believe. I've got 43,000ish miles on my Bolt and it's still at 97% of original capacity. It seems to be around 1% loss per 10,000 miles, and remember that that's 1% compounded, not total. Gas engines tend to last less than 200,000 miles on average. 200,000 miles on a battery would be around 81% state of charge still if the 1% loss holds up. Of course if you're constantly driving the gas engine hard, or babying it, it'll last shorter or longer and the same for batteries. Besides, it's an investment in both your own financial future, and the future of humanity on this planet. The EV saves you money, and helps keep the planet from becoming uninhabitable.

Not a very educated comment. You need to do some reading.

if you don't drive more than 50 miles in one trip.. then the answer is yes

But the point is that, with the average UK weekly mileage being around 120 miles, you won't use costly motorway chargers more than once or twice per year. Any additional charging costs such as these - even if used 10 times a year - pale into insignificance when you consider that you'll charge at home 95% of the time on cheaper rate electricity.

Plus the ICE car costs more to service...

There are actually very few "painfully slow" EV's. Even a Humble Hyundai Kona can sport a 0 - 60 time of around 7.5 seconds.

@@Brian-om2hh that’s slow? 7.5 seconds? Jesus, turn on the air con it’ll struggle to go uphill, fast is under 5 seconds,

@@MatthewA7 most normal cars are not doing 0-60 in under 8, so by them standards that is quick tbh

@@BOSKILLZX really? A bmw 320d one of the most popular cars on the road does 0-60 in 7.1 seconds, the only cars on the road who do it in 8 or more are kids cars or old people or people that literally do not care about cars, but if anyone thinks 0-60 in 7.5 seconds is fast, I have no idea what you are on

@@MatthewA7 come on this is poor logic, a 320d is definitely fast. As a proportion of ‘normal’ cars there’s not THAT many. For example I had a Astra J 1.6 turbo, that was top of the line (other than VXR). That done 0-60 in just under 8 and by no means did it feel slow. Excluding ‘premium’ cars, majority of these Vauxhall’s, fords, nissans etc are not doing under 8

Yes, you can certainly tell he hasn't worked for the Daily Mail.......

Maybe the car you crave hasn't yet been produced? It may only be a matter of time though. In the meantime, try a Corsa E or a Peugeot E 208. You may be pleasantly surprised....... Give it a go, there's nothing to lose.

And it's an industry which is set to grow.....

That's simply learned behaviour. It meant nothing to you before you drove a car. You will unlearn it in time....

This sounds like someone who has not driven a good EV. After buying BMW for 25 years I just brought a Tesla. At least as much fun as the BMW's