ALL hale the REAL TRUE QUEEN 👑 of NIGHTWISH and of ALL FEMALE SYMPHONIC METAL SINGERS!!!, the very beautiful looking and very unique voice of the enchanting TARJA!!!😀👍👍🤘
this is but a surface exhibit , saying nothing of the constant internal conflict between the members. which is the essence of NW history..it doesn't touch upon the two times Tuomas was ready to disband and how they managed to recover
@@xeleelex146 You could see it at the band press conference dated 2001 on their faces, they knew it was only a matter of time. Probably why 'Once' was so good.
@@xeleelex146 Why would it? The documentary were filmed long before Tarja situation got bad and after Marco already joined to give a mood boost. These were most definitely the happy times.
@@MikkoRantalainen Yes problems with the old bass player Sami Vänskä, which made Tuomas almost disband Nightwish. However I believe this footage is after that when Marco already joined and things where looking good for some time.
I think the most interesting part is at 2:05:22 where Tuomas says that it's mentally so hard for him to say that he doesn't wish to work with one member of the band that he'll rather quit the whole band instead of dealing with the situation. This makes me better understand what happened with Tarja later and why they went with the open letter.
Yes indeed. Marko does mention in his biography, "Stainless?" the fact that no one was really eager to deal with the deteriorating situation (and that this was also repeated in 2012) and that he (Marko) was, more eager to get the stress over and done with as he had fewer emotional ties to the past than the others did. The open letter does kind of seem to be a truly unfortunate attempt to deal with unpleasantness at arms length.
Tuomas and Tarja had known each other since they were teenagers, it was going to be ugly cutting a close friend and a colleague of a decade out. Although the band admitted they could have handled the situation better, years later.
I personally think one of the most important reason was to try to handle the narrative. As there has rarely been a band where one member is as important as Tarja was for Nightwish, and things with Tarja/Marcelo were in a point where there was a risk that it will destroy the whole band. For the band it was life or death situation, for Tarja it was only at most stain on her reputation which wouldn't matter much cos she was becoming solo artist anyway. I think the letter contains certain things that should have been left out, as the honesty/inexperience causes the letter to show anger, and that backfired big time. Also I think the timing was really poor. To handle the letter right after the tour ended. That's really really bad image wise and it certainly felt worse for Tarja too. I get the idea of an open letter though, because it was life or death situation for the band.
@@juzujuzu4555 "I personally think one of the most important reason was to try to handle the narrative." Otherwise known as lies and cowardice. "For the band it was life or death situation" Life and death situation for a band which reinvents itself for every singer? The melodrama is nauseating. "Tarja it was only at most stain on her reputation which wouldn't matter much cos she was becoming solo artist anyway." Horse shit. She fled her home country for 15years because media attention was so intense they staked outside her house. She was humiliated on an international scale. Her reputation is *still* called into question by NW fans 17years later over that letter. ONLY "at most a stain on her reputation which wouldn't matter much"? You disgust me.
@@kimberlyh.5023 literally not one person on this planet cares if they disgust you. Tarja was a cancer in the band who thought she was better than everyone. In her mind, it was "Tarja, with some guys supporting me" The band became 10 times better once that bitch was gone.
Thanks you very much, i tried to see it once but I don't speaking Finnish and i stopped,but now with subtitles i understood it. Yes it was the end of the innocents somehow, many things happen till now,they change two singers and they continue to making masterpieces. I love them all ,their past and their future.
As a newly minted member of the Nightwish Army UK division, thank you so much for this Trinx! I loved seeing so much of the back history of the band. I learnt so much (plus it was awesome seeing them all so young 😍🤘)
yes indeed After Forever, see Floor Jansen at 1.24.05 and the rest of the band. And in 2012 Floor became the new singer of Nightwish, so no strangers there! :)
Yes, every child in Finland born in the late 70s and 80s is intimately familiar with the original pedobear :) We all watched his adventures at 6 o'clock every week day.
@@kimberlyh.1090 I agree on the unwillingness to talk about problems. Tuomas kicking out Sami via Ewo rather than talking to him first is a prime example of that. Tuomas/Emppu weren't exactly happy about each other around that time as well. I would add that the Scandinavian nations and the young musicians as well are known for excess drinking (and other things). That is another problematic issue that was seen in the documentary. Nowadays in their 40-50, they seem much more mature. As they should be FFS. Sexism doesn't look like a legit issue in this case. I don't know any NW members/their management (past or present) personally so I couldn't know for sure, but from the general information I have heard about the band, that seems unlikely. If the band members had problems with each other in the past, it looks like a case of general douchebaggery, rather than sexism to me. *excuse the gramatic errors, I'm not a native English speaker
@@juliannewarren5466 "Sexism doesn't look like a legit issue in this case. I don't know any NW members/their management (past or present) personally so I couldn't know for sure, but from the general information I have heard about the band, that seems unlikely. If the band members had problems with each other in the past, it looks like a case of general douchebaggery, rather than sexism to me." I'd have thought that way too, except 1). NW kicked out two Female singers in their extremely underhanded, dishonorable way, then made the *extremely* sexist comment to/about Anette saying "make sure to help your Women with the laundry sometimes." Sami was only asked to leave, and he was a bassist; finding a good bassist is much easier than finding a good singer. 2). There's the excerpt "Sing, bitch, sing!" to Tarja in Once Upon a Nightwish. 3). There's the line "Strip of foreskin between your teeth?" in A Day Before Tomorrow.
@@kimberlyh.1090 The open letter fiasco is yet another example how NOT to make changes in a lineup. Passive-agressive exchange of songs between Tuomas and Tarja shows it took years to became civil enough again to even write an e-mail to each other. At the time of the open letter, Tarja has already been on her way out and said so herself. So I don't see any problem with band letting her go. Although the matter in which this was done should be handled better. It was a dumpster fire instead. Anette has had her moments to shine. But if the vocalist has been repeatedly too ill to tour and left nasty remarks towards the two singers who were kind enough to fill in, I wouldn't want someone like that in my band neither. It sounds cold, but being in the music industry is a job. A business should be avoided of excess feelings. That just leads to trouble for everyone involved. Don't know about the laundry quote. It sounds too random and I would have to read the entire text from which this was taken to understand what is that about. The other quotes - not the sweetest of remarks, although I must admit not the worst I have ever heard. My colleagues (both past and present) has been at least as much vulgar or even more than this at times. And most of them has been middle-aged women working back-office in banking and insurance sector. Hearing someone twice my age saying something like that about their husband/boyfriend/relative/friend/colleague is not something I want to hear, but people talk like that. Not all of them and not all the time, but it does happen. I don't care about look-how-edgy-Im-when-I-talk-trash sex talk neither, but I have also left a few nasty angry remarks myself in my life. This is a human issue and reality. I have never met anyone who would think like Stephen Hawking, act like Mother Theresa and talk like William Shakespeare all their life without slipping into the sewer at least once.
2:03:44 This statement bears a very close resemblance to yesterdays announcement regarding the next album. There will be a new album in 2024 but the following quote is a bit worrying: "After the planned shows for June 2023 we will be “hanging up our spurs” for an indeterminate time, as far as live concert performances go, and won’t be touring the next album. " Let's see to where this will lead us. I hope so much that they just need a well deserved break and will start touring again with the album after the next one.
Given that Floor will soon have two young kids to look after, this is the only right decision imo. Her husband is also a touring musician, which makes things even more complicated.
@@jussihamalainen7692 I know that and I also think that this decision is right. But I also hope that this isn't a goodbye but an actual pause from touring like they said. I guess time will show.
Also only Tuomas is left from the og lineup, Empuu got castrated by the boss for a couple of albums now since there's barely any interesting guitar work
It's insane that they had all of this material available on their official DVDs, but somehow chose to paint HER as problematic on the open letter 💀. Like, besties... have you not watched your own tour footage? because... 😅.
this is but a surface exhibit , saying nothing of the constant internal conflict between the members. which is the essence of NW history..it doesn't touch upon the two times Tuomas was ready to disband and how they managed to recover
must be something else seeing your thoughts and such come to life in music -- and the ability to find the best tools to do that -- and then there was FLOOR yeeeyyy nuther lvl
Hail Trinx of the House Trinxgaryen, the First of Her Name, The Queen of the Nightwishers, the Reacticiders and the First Men, Queen of Trivia, Khaleesi of the Great Gif Sea, Protector of the MarkoTree, Lady Regent of the Seven Servers, Breaker of Rules and Mother of Discords”.
That scene towards the end of the documentary where Tarja is asked if she ever thought about leaving the band, have you ever seen a more unhappy bunch of bandmates?
That's all on her. She made everyone miserable, so fans need to stop the feud. Tarja didn't want to be there so her firing was a blessing to all of them.
@@stubones She did cause a lot of friction within the band. Her husband, Marcelo also played a huge part in getting her fired. Diva like attitude along with a Rasputin like influence. Was sorry to see her go, but everything happens for a reason, yes? ☮️
@@stubones Very wrong. She was toned down constantly due to her amazing vocal capabilities because the band couldn't really follow that. For many songs she was asked to really tone down her voice. And in album ONCE, they toned her down the most out of all the albums before. ONCE received horrible reviews due to the band wrecking Tarja's vocals. The band wanted to go more and more into the commercialism, but they can't do it with a powerful voice like Tarja's. They had to choose a more pop voice, something that is easy to digest, like in the song NEMO. Everyone following NIghtwish since mid 90s knows this.
@UCw0fyHcQy3hKsHRCI71g3sQ Bugger the fuck off with your tinfoil hat. Tuomas has stated that he never wants to calculate the way he makes his music, so you can do away with this commercialism crap.
"pystyn lukee justjajust nuotteja ja säestää pianolla jotaki..." /Tuomas Holopainen. Tästä tulee jännittävä katselukokemus! 😳 "..Et voi sanoo et rupesin soittaa kosketinsoittimia vasta 16-vuotiaana"
In case you haven't found the answer yet, it's "Kiteen Pallo", a short intro song that Nightwish did for a Finnish pesäpallo (somewhat similar to baseball) team by the same name. Here's the entire song, only a little over one minute long: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-uueskECGExo.html
this is but a surface exhibit , saying nothing of the constant internal conflict between the members. which is the essence of NW history..it doesn't touch upon the two times Tuomas was ready to disband and how they managed to recover
I was experiencing the same problem, because it gave me only the option of Finnish subs.... when I finally decided to go for Finnish just for fun, they turned out to be the English ones. Ta da!
Because she probably didn't like them being drunk almost all the time. Drunk Men are not fun for Women to be around, especially when the Woman isn't a heavy drinker herself.
Actually I think she was not a problem ... you see how good friends they are and happy together in time and era of innocence. But she also wanted to do her own musical projects and solo sooner or later. The boys also see, that her husband came to ruin the chemistry and good long time relationship with the boys. Tuomas knew her since 13 years old and they were local school friends and practicing with the same music teacher Mr. Plamen Dimov.
I think the severe issues only started during Once world tour. Century Child tour was a pretty happy time for the band, much of this doc is filmed during that. She was always distant but tbh I would be too seeing how heavily partying the rest of the band were back then.
@@annab4027 i think the same. Maybe it's a personality thing or maturity thing that there's excessively too much partying. I mean it's pretty much a closed case by now and many other factors come into play, but i can't forget that bit about how the members kept on playing while Tarja was sexually assaulted in front of their audience in Mexico. Very hard to not distance oneself from the people, who have known you for many years, and failed to act as decent human beings.
Tarja wasn't just the problem. There's two sides to every story, and it takes to to tango. She wasn't 100% committed to a job she loved (problem #1), and the guys were more boys than men; unable to express their thoughts like adults and come up with/agree on a solution (problem #2). It festered to the point beyond repair (problem #3).
Tarja wasn't a problem at this time. However, as you see around 1:53:25 the band does seem pretty upset when the press asks again why Tarja is still in the band. Around 2004 Tarja had told that she'll would be willing to do two more albums and then will start solo stuff and Tuomas wasn't happy to write any more songs for her after that. In addition, as you can see in the open letter, Tarja was thinking the band more as a entrepreneur project whereas Tuomas was thinking it was just about music and ignored financial stuff as much as possible. I'd guess they could have been able to come up with middle ground if they could have talked about things "like adults" but they failed at that. Instead, they just started to avoid seeing the band outside the gigs, which obviously doesn't work as a long term solution.
