Engine Failure IMC over the Mountains 

This controller should have received a medal. He went way beyond normal ATC service by pointing out the terrain around, that he could do only if he was very familiar with the terrain itself.

I’m a professional pilot. 7,000+ hours in the corporate game. You’ve done an outstanding job on this video. This will save lives my friend. Thank you for this.

This is one reason why I am a believer in synthetic vision in today's glass panels. Glide distance ring and seeing through the soup greatly reduce pilot workload. This is one of the best examples I've seen for ATC training. Thank you for this video! I hope every controller, and pilot, watches it!

"Never give up. Never surrender" Galaxy Quest.

one thing that stuck in my mind that applies to a lot of owner/pilots: stop trying to save the PLANE once the fan stops, it belongs to the insurance company!

I’m from the area and he was in a tough spot. Nothing but trees all around him. So happy that this story ended with living pilot for a change.

"Fly the airplane as far through the crash as possible" - R.A. "Bob" Hoover.

Hi Scott, great video. I lost my engine in a Cessna 152 over the Hoosier National Forest around 4500 feet back in 1989, I was a student at Vincennes University in their flight program. I was in my second year, already earned my private license and was on a solo cross country. I give high praise to the instructors and Vincennes University, they always had us practicing engine out, as well as other emergencies. When my engine quit I didn’t freak out, went through my emergency procedures as I was taught. I found an open field and circled down and was able to successfully land the plane with no injuries. Cause of the engine failure was a valve broke and fell on top of one of the pistons punching a hole in it. The Vincennes University mechanics fixed the engine in the field and my instructor flew it out and back to the university airport which was in Lawrenceville Illinois. I’ll never forget the tail number of that aircraft, N6362M.

Looking at the damage to that aircraft wedged into those trees, it is understandable why the pilot isn’t ready to talk about it. Must have been one hell of a ride and frankly i’m not so sure i could fly again after experiencing something like that. Glad you made it bud!!

As a controller and CFI who is currently building a training course for controllers, this video is absolutely fantastic for both pilots and controllers. The training course is in draft form, and while I'm not at liberty to share the draft course publicly, I can say that I have already recorded a similar video for controllers that is very similar. (Scott, I'll share the link with you privately). I will attach the link to this video as part of the course, for controllers to watch. Scott -- controllers will hear your advice. Keep it coming please.

Bob Hover I think “fly into the crash As far as possible”. Great post and analysis. Thank you.

Grab a copy of the Airport Information for Aspen CO. KASE. There's a paragraph that clearly states "UNLESS CEILINGS ARE AT LEAST 2000 FT ABOVE HIGHEST TRRN & VIS IS 15 MILES OR MORE; MOUNTAIN FLYING IS NOT RECOMMENDED". This is even more important in a single engine recip. I'm happy this turned out well for the pilot but he should have chosen a better day. I instruct in a Cessna Caravan 208-B Redbird motion simulator. One of my missions is out of Seattle SEA-TAC and flies east on V-2 /298 which is very near where this Bonanza was. I'm going to have my students watch this video. Keep 'em coming FlyWire.

Who else has noticed that at the ending of Scott's videos there is the shot of a F-15 in a turn but the sound of a prop engine? Who else thinks that was done on purpose for a little humor? Its always a treat when a new video comes out .

Hi Scott. I really enjoyed this episode. I live in the Seattle area, and western Washington being heavily forested, most roads are impossible to see, even in extreme VFR, unless you are directly above them. For this reason, I also bring along my Garmin truckers GPS, that shows where all these roads are. It is accurate enough, to even show which lane I am in while driving down I-5. Flying a single myself, this could be a life saver, if I ever find myself dead stick over unforgiving terrain.

Glad you mentioned pulling the prop back. It makes a huge difference in how much glide you can expect in an engine out situation. I remember the American Bonanza Society safety course where this was demonstrated. With the power pulled back to idle in a simulated engine out, I raised the nose and traded speed for altitude until I hit something close to best glide. Then, I found a survivable place to land and headed for it. It was a rice field. There was an airport a bit further away but getting there was a question mark. I knew I could make that rice field. The ABS instructor then said, "Now pay attention." He pulled the prop full aft (which I had not done), and the airplane seemed to jump forward and gain quite a bit of speed. Pulling back on the yoke and retrimming to best glide really flattened our descent. Now that airport was clearly reachable, and we carried the simulated engine out all the way to touching down on it. So don't forget the prop! And don't ever hand the yoke to the controller. You are PIC, not him. Drop the gear without a road or runway assured????? Not on your life. This B36TC pilot made a few errors (turning away from lower terrain and possible landing sites before correcting) but he flew the airplane all the way to the ground, and that likely made all the difference. Robin

This is where a certified aircraft seem to do better at absorbing crashes then experimental. There is some design effort into absorbing crashes keeping the cabin intact.

“Never give, never surrender”-> Galaxy Quest! Great commentary. Thanks!

Never give up Never Surrender, Galaxy Quest

Great video Scott. “Fly the airplane as far into the crash as you can “ Keeping pilots, and the memory of the great RA Bob Hoover alive!

"Too many people have not made it trying to make something they didn't have the energy to do" are words to remember in these situations.

That big flat reservoir sure looked inviting. I’d rather swim and watch the insurance companies Bonanza sink than fight trees and rugged terrain. Guess I’ll be saving up for AHARS unit to get full benefit of the synthetic vision Foreflight offers.

I heared someone once say .."use you plane as your survival capsule", and this accident is a clear exaple aswell.

I’m a non-pilot with a long-time keen interest in aviation and aeronautics. I chose electrical engineering as a career. No regrets because it is the physics of flight that interests me most, rather than flying itself. However, descriptions of incidents like this one consistently drive home the importance of the physics to flying. I suspect that training for general aviation licenses is a bit light on the physics of flight. In contrast, Scott, your discussions are almost always heavy on the physics, even if you don’t advertise that. I’m always impressed with what ex-military test pilots have to say. And I’m always impressed by how fighter pilots approach flying any plane - even and perhaps especially something like a Piper Cub. I see the gears turning in their heads about how each craft is going to perform. They take nothing for granted. I heard Bob Hoover describe the way he continuously made mental math calculations and predictions of things like fuel burn, glide ratio, and so forth. The gears were always turning in his head. That’s not to say I think flying is only mathematical. There are many other important factors such as situational awareness and decision making ability. But wouldn’t it make sense, for example, to show every student pilot what happens to altitude when a plane turns when its engine is off (idling)? Have them watch the altimeter while the instructor handles the plane. Surely that exercise would help a pilot avoid the impossible turn. (Steve Appleton was a leader at Micron Semiconductor who, even though he was a fairly experienced pilot, was killed when his turboprop plane lost power and he tried the impossible turn.). Seems there are lots of possible ways of demonstrating the physics of flight. Thanks so much for sharing your insights and experience. I very much enjoy your channel.

Scott, outstanding presentation. Yes, fly the airplane, best glide speed, pull the prop to high pitch, leave the airplane clean, advance the most distance, fly the suggested headings (VFR or IFR), never give up or resign, use the energy, still, fly the damn airplane and onna heading that takes you to the best outcome and keep the wings absolutely level. You are so right about the gear (leave it up), airplanes don't make good garden tillers or agricultural implements landing on soft or unimproved surfaces, they're not the best chain saws either. Energy dissipation prior to hard collisions, that's hard to teach and better learned from prior accident reviews. Still, with the review and thinking thru the scenarios, a very difficult situation to confront and settle. Glad this pilot survived and can share his experiences with others. Again, thanks for leading us thru this agonizing and terrifying scenario, it is so thought provoking.

Quote by Mr Bob Hover , thank you for the great videos!

All I have to say is, lucky, lucky, lucky. 🍀 Great analysis, this is a very good video.

I came across your videos and can't get enough, total marathon going on right now. Love your delivery like you were my dad. Very comforting and relaxed so I spend all the time listening rather than worrying about how my instructor would have told me and me thinking it's class and would think about tests etc, rather than just taking it in. I like that. Thank you.

I learned a lot from Kirshner's books. In his Student Pilot Manual he said fly all the way to the ground and let the wings/trees absorb the energy; don't stall it in above the trees. So, being one of the first things you learn, also makes it one of the things you never forget. Kirshner obviously knew the importance of that since he mentioned it in his student pilot book - the first one you read. I used his books all the way up through instrument, commercial and CFI, among others of course.

I love the accident dissections.....and even more so when the pilot survived with only minor injuries vs multiple fatalities. Very instructive as always Scott and thanks for another well done lesson.

Literally 100's of life-saving nuggets in this one. Thanks Scott!

Great info, I am a surviver of a single engine engine failure, everything you say is correct, especially the What if? comment. Always have a mental rehearsal before you fly of the what ifs.

Great story, can't even imagine being in that situation. Can't believe how calm the pilot was, but it was like you said he was not thinking of the ending.

The pilot and controller did a great job. As an 82 year old pilot , I have experienced 5 engine failures, 2 single engine. Both ended on airfields. I never shut down the engine for smoke or vibration, only for visible flame. Any thrust however small may make the difference.

" Never, never, never, never give in." Sir Winston Churchill, Harrow School on October 29, 1941.

Around 1978, when I was vacationing in Puerto Rico, I wanted to rent from a flight school. I saw from the coast the nice looking rain forest mountains to 4,000 agl. Green, and then blue color higher up. it can be hot on the coast, but you go up the mountains and there are a lot of towns where the temperature all year round will be between 60 and 80 degrees. No ac or heating needed ever. So nice. They told me about a Bonanza owner that took off one very early morning, was planning to fly over valleys and the rain forest mountains on the right side.. He felt asleep on the climb. Woke up with a lot of noise and been thrown forward to the seat belts, it was still dark. He shut all the switches off, and step out of the wrecked Bonanza into the thick rain forest. Saw some car lights and started walking there. He got to the road and a car gave him a lift. He only had a few bruises from the seat belts and a few scrapes while walking in the forest. Bought another Bonanza later on..

"In a crash, fly the plane until the last piece has stopped moving"

Great info. I’d like to add to controllers trying to help.... give directions left or right. As in “ turn a slight turn to the right , your 1 o’clock.“ Head west “is too much brain work. While maneuvering in an emergency situational awareness can easily be lost. Slight right turn 1oclock 2 miles makes sense. I survived by flying to the crash through trees after losing a prop blade and the engine hanging by one engine mount bolt. I turned the master off (which shut the controller up) and used what I had to make the best of a very bad situation.......Never, ever give up.

I am a B36 pilot. Thanks. I am glad I found you. This is my 2nd Bonanza A36 and now B36 Since 1984

Congratulations to the controller for not distracting the pilot with fuel and souls on board and not even mentioning the minimum vectoring altitude.

Great, great discussion.

My ears still ring with my CFI's engine out procedures some 30 years later. He constantly drilled (even once called me once in the middle of night "you just lost your engine - what do you do??"). His procedure was almost word for word what you covered. But you missed his final advice... " when all else fails hit the softest, least expensive thing at the slowest possible speed!"

There seems to be a lot of bonanzas going down lately. Great job on dissecting the incident and so glad the pilot survived

Great analysis Scott. I fly a Cherokee 6. Its a good day if I have 5,000' AGL, IFR or VFR. At that altitude if my engine quits, I am going to be on the ground in 4 minutes or less (1,500' + descent rate) and within 4NM below me. An airport would have to be below me, for me to consider. I agree Scott....we have to preserve the cabin and sacrifice the rest of the plane if a field doesn't present itself. With fixed gear, I would pull the handbrake hard on before landing if field was short and collision was imminent. Peter

By Grabthar's Hammer, I'm gonna practice the engine out checklist in my T210 next time I go up.

Any landing you can walk away from even with a broken leg is a good one.

Good job by the controller putting something together for this guy.

Wisdom dispensed here... thank you Scott.

Fantastic! That pilot did an incredible job ignoring the controller on the things he needed to, and sounded calm and under control. Kudos to the controller doing everything he could to help the pilot. Lots of luck involved too. Glad he didn’t try for Auburn.

Controller says "Start a slow glide", Pilot thinks... my engine is out... glide is all I got. Videos like these are very helpful. It's a reminder to fly the airplane when things aren't "normal". No matter what... fly the airplane. Good stuff. I spend a good bit of time thinking about where I'm going to go if the engine quits on every flight. I'm not "afraid" that it will happen but I'm aware that it could. The worst case for me, as far as I know, flying out of KFMN, is engine out on takeoff. Especially if the wind is from the east.

Scott, you provide an excellent service. As a pilot of 40 plus years, and crash survivor, there is one option not often discussed, descend to and or over a body of water (no obstacles). A water landing, crash, I'll take those odds over crashing into a forest. And like you said, keep the GEAR UP.

Someone like yourself should be teaching airtraffic control students on topics such as what you just presented..basics crucial steps with communication

“ Never give up, never surrender!“ Galaxy Quest.

Great analysis Mr Perdue. I think single eng IFR in IMC is very delicate, specially over mountains or rugged terrain, ...too much to loose in case something goes wrong

Superb video. Congrats to the pilot, the ATC-controller and Scott. Big lessons learned here: no panic, fly the plane, don't be married to an airfield, land in the trees if necessary. Have always felt that trees are not necessarily a deadly threat, given a low-speed 'approach config'. Together with the airplane they will dissipate a lot of energy. In general about this and other aviation channels: seems like a new kind of NTSB is growing: swarm intelligence by the online pilot community.. Keep on this great work, Scott.

Man that was cringy to listen to. Your advice is second to none Scott. I wonder if that controller was low time? I was shocked when he said to put the gear down. And well, also when he said descend to 6,000. I’m a big fan of keeping the grass roots of flying alive like planning a cross country on paper sectionals on my living room floor. BUT I would not do it without all the tech available. At the push of a button he could have had every airport on his iPad with a giant circle depicting his glide range. Im not going to Monday morning quarter back because I’m in a totally different mindset than I would be in that situation. But like you said Scott. Hangar flying is the way to go. And even to a low time pilot it’s clear this pilot wasn’t prepared.

Worst possible scenario - engine out over the mountains, IMC ! Wow! Good job

Bob Hoover , who survived many engine out landings , said it best. Fly the airplane as far into the crash as you can. Entering the tree tops under control gives you a chance to dissipate energy and survive, stall spins are never survivable. Controller deserves kudos if for nothing else keeping the pilot from flying into terrain that would not have been survivable. As an IFR pilot who flies a plane just like this one, we know that hard IMC over mountains is extremely risky if there is trouble. I fly over mainly flat land, but if I had to do much of this type of flying, I would have to consider a multiengine plane. Very well done video. My advice is in daylight , always pick a field if possible, roads and high lines go hand in hand and it is very hard to spot the wires even in the best of conditions if you are trying to land on a road. Also , you won't be endangering someone driving.

Thank you for Your superb Debrief. I’m a PP who will review your post regularly!

Great for you to be putting this reminder out for those OH SHIT! moments like this when what you do in the next few seconds determines whether you live on or die

Great video, thank you. Only fly R/C aircraft,sadly, but when things go pear shaped height is gold,just as in the real world of flight.

I've been in three engine failures. Allsituations are different but what I always did after I knew rudder use was no longer necessary, was to put both feet on the instrument panel. This, in a lot of circumstances, will save your legs. You can also brace your chest on your knees or as near as possible, move your seat forward. This last will also keep your face from eating the windshield. Lastly, tighten your seatbelt as tight as possible.

Excellent analysis and so good the pilot got thru it. Seemed pretty much a good "Aviate, Navigate, Communicate" - flying all the way to a stop.

I try to have one device on “Nearest Airport” at all times. Always know your glide distance per thousand feet agl…1.5mi per 1000’. Consider winds too.

As soon as you said "Today is a Treat" IMC over the mountains I knew the pilot survived and that's why you phrased it that way. I appreciate the video, thanks.

Great Video! This is the area that I live and fly. Last February I had an engine out in a Saratoga. Everything you said was spot on, we need to train for this (sims are a great tool) . You will lose a few seconds on the shock and disbelief factor, but knowing where you are and where you would land in an emergency at all times is key. First, step turn toward your landing spot. The other thing I would add is use flight following if you are not flying IFR. Having ATC at your finger tips without having to look up a frequency when your already stressed is a HUGE advantage! I was fortunate to have exactly enough glide to make a small airport in Quincy. Thanks for doing these videos, your experience and knowledge will save lives!

I enjoyed that dissection of this whole engine failure and inevitable crash landing. What a fortunate pilot he is, and good on him for flying it right into the crash and avoiding the stall spin. I learnt some stuff from this thankyou for doing a good job of explaining the important priorities. I’m a PPL holder.

Not a pilot just enjoy the videos. Been a cop for 22 years. That advice you gave about the boxes and trauma was gold. Compartmentalization is a great coping tool but it has to be dealt with.

Sorry, had to get that in there quick before anyone else. Anyway, Scott, I love your videos and I enjoy the very methodical and technical way you review and examine each incident/accident. It's hard to do that and remain real, gritty, and human. You do that well, and I think we all really appreciate it! Keep em coming!

No fire in a bonanza crash. Another huge bit o luck! Imagine surviving that only to die in the fire . Great job scott!

Bob Hoover...The most important flying you will ever do is after you have hit something.

Good to see that the gear was STILL up at the crash site. He wasn't going to need it in those trees!

Engine out IMC in mountains... Crazy. Just Crazy. This is a hell of an analysis. Great job. Really great job!

Can't believe no one got it yet. Tim Allen in Galaxy Quest. Great movie. Great videos Scott. Hello from CYBW.

Spot on! Good analysis!

Scott, tremendously valuable video and your constructive criticism is spot on! Excellent training video. Both pilot and controller did a really good job, but agree with all of your inputs here. Excellent!!

Something to keep in mind is that very few controllers are pilots, and those who are not know nearly nothing anout how airplanes fly and what they can do, especially under abnormal conditions. I was hired by the FAA in 1982 as a controller and found that almost all of the several hundred in my class at OKC knew anything about airplanes. I was one of, if not the only, pilot in that clasd of new hires. When I got to my first facility (a Level 4 approach control) I was one of four pilots on the staff, and one of two airplane owners. That was an unusually high number of pilots in an ATC facility (authorized staffing there was 108 controllers, plus supervisors and admin staff). Remember, fly the airplane as your first priority! Radar scopes don't show terrain, only sector boundaries, and MVAs are for relatively broad areas. I have been flying for 58 years and have had 7 engine failures. The last was at night over mountains. I was able to get a relight (actually, several as it kept quitting) and did make it to an airport. I have had a multi engine rating for several decades, and enjoy all airplanes, and have owned quite a few, both singles and twins. All of the engine failires, except the last one, which was in a friend's airplane, were in rentals. I gave up rental airplanes many years ago, and I no longer fly single engine airplanes, though I like many if them. A friend tolld me I found multi engine religion!

Great video. Controllers have available an “EOVM”- Emergency Obstruction Video Map. This map shows terrain like a Topographic Map and is very useful in vectoring an aircraft in difficulty towards lower terrain. Controller did a good job. Assigning an altitude is wasted time, If IMC I would just advise the pilot of the terrain elevation so they can be prepared for impact at the proper time.

Perhaps my favorite FlyWire video ever.

I fly an A36 and while in annual I am planing on a one day course in a simulator just to practice this exact scenario. Very timely video for me. Thx Scott.

One of the better jobs we’ve seen recently! Pilot did a far better job than many ATPs have done!

It drives me nuts that to this day the first thing controller say, after giving vectors is descend and maintain “X”. With an engine out altitude should be at the pilots discretion because they are generally the only ones that know what they need to do to make the nearest airport. Keeping as much altitude as possible and shedding it near the airport is better than coming up short every time!

Always great helpful information.

Outstanding episode. I will show this to students. I can claim only one hard engine out and I was giving transition when engine failed on take off. The biggest first issue was having the owner give me the controls.( yes I go through the "my airplane, your airplane EVERY flight but he froze. I struck him with a fist in shoulder and that worked... off field landing was uneventful and no damage. Largely due to luck and as a 10,000 hr CFI we practice emergencies regularly. Thats the Key. GA Pilots need more emergency training.

I'll be shocked if that controller wasn't a pilot himself. He gave great advice. One good thing (probably not legal thou) my crusty old CFI did back in 1975 was to give me an actual engine shutdown in the Cherokee 160 I learned in. I experienced the vibration and windmilling prop you don't see in a simulated failure. He had me fly it down to landing with the engine shut down. Of course he was ready to crank it back up if needed. It was confidence inspiring for me. The next lesson I soloed. Love the channel, I was a Safety Officer/Aircraft Accident Investigator in the USAF back in the late 1980's.

Great analysis and great job on the pilot. I was monitoring 121.5 a couple months ago and heard another A36 call out about an engine failure North of Atlanta Ga. He successfully landed on a small highway with no injuries. My wife asks me why I listen to these videos, and I tell her I try and put myself in their shoes, to learn how to make better choices should this situation arise. Granted, I fly a C-150 strictly VFR on the east coast with mostly farm land around, so my options are pretty good.

I believe ATC worked as good as he could at this situation with this pilot. ATC first asked, what is going on, waiting for a plan from the pilot. Pilot was focused on plane (engine restart, fuses...) He clearly forgot to fly the plane ATC made a plan for the pilot as quickly and good as he could and kept the pilot flying plane. I think ATC wanted the pilot to focus on airfield, until plane is out of IMC. If IMC is till ground, then airfield is the best option anyway. If plane got out of clouds, pilot could use his eyes for a better landing option. If the pilot descended closer to ground earlier, he might get into situation, where there is no road visible because of bad visibility. Without talking to the pilot or ATC we will not get the full picture. Official investigation only can shed some more light into this incident. I wish the pilot fast recovery both physical and mental. Good job ATC.

Great dissertation as usual. For the bonus points, "Never give up, never surrender" is from the movie "Galaxy Quest", 1999, staring Tim Allen.

I find these accident reviews as helpful and thought provoking as anything out there for GA practical knowledge. This should get 2x the wings credit or credit for any continuing education required for pilots.

Glad he made it out ....from the thumbnail I was saying looks like they did a good job getting it down

GALAXY QUEST!

Thanks!

Scott, once again a great presentation. The pilot did a great job, like you said, fly it all the way to the end. Don't give up. Some guy from Nashville TN said that. I didn't know he was from Nashville until I read it at the museum at BFI. We recently experienced a loss of a club airplane, and those funerals are never a good thing to experience. Push the nose down. After that I reviewed all the videos on engine failure. I was already preaching about not turning back to the runway after a power loss, but your video on that gave me more concrete facts. 1500 feet and I immediately accelerate to 110 knots in the A36! You have to know your terrain, and I'm fortunate to one grow up in my mountainous terrain area and two, I flew helicopters before GPS and moving maps. Always know where you are, sometimes I forget that in life. The other thing that drives me bat shit crazy is VFR only pilots in high performance airplanes. Get that instrument rating for God's sake.

Thanks for producing this video Scott. Sure beats reading another NTSB report!

VAS does an amazing job.. It is even more so when other youtubers incorporate VAS material into extended and enhanced analysis and critique. It IS a true win-win circumstance.

Fly the airplane under control all the way into the crash, thats what Chesley Sullenberger did and he saved everyone on board.

Thanks Scott a very pertinent review and worth going over and over again, certainly a worst case scenario imc, high and wooded terrain but you have presented well the things that are important and the things that are best left out in the scarry pressure of the all to short moment. Your Flywire program particularly helps us low time pilots think about and plan in our minds ahead of time on how to better conduct ourselves if that moment occurs that will change the fun into surviving to play another day. Please keep it up and many many thanks.

Scott, that was an outstanding presentation, no joke! Been a pilot for over 30 yrs and your discussion is spot-on, especially on energy management and situational awareness. Many novice pilots (and veterans!) don't really think much about "E" and how to preserve and manage it in just this type of situation. I've always preached that altitude and speed are your friends; keep them and they'll keep you. It's easy to bleed off "E" and without the currency of altitude to get it back viable options can start drying up fast. Your presentation and this video in particular is exceptionally good; if you're not already a CFI you'd be one of the best. Clear Skies

old fishing bud survived not one but two light AC crashes---last one was in NC mountains crashed in top of BIG Oak tree. The four dudes had a hell of a time climbing out of the tree !! One fell out of tree and broke his leg.

No fire is a big reason he survived...a big thanks Scott, I always learn a lot from your videos.

Allot of Pilot’s don’t carry the VFR carts with them, or/and don’t plan for emergencies and alternate airport along their flight path. Good job on the review