ENMESHMENT: BORDERLINE AND NARCISSISTIC PARENTS 

Real freedom is saying “no” without having to give a reason.

Your videos make me feel so validated! I took a major step back from my (very likely) borderline mother several years ago and because of the enmeshment it was the hardest thing I’ve ever done. I’m an only child so I felt very responsible for her. I remember being a kid and her telling me that if I upset her, she wouldn’t go to work and if she didn’t work then we’d be homeless. Into my adulthood I always felt like I had to make sure I was acting a certain way to fend off her rages. I couldn’t stand her but was also helping her with things multiple times a week! It’s hard to understand if you haven’t experienced it. Thank you so much for your videos and explaining it so clearly.

I agree, never call you child your best friend. You are the Guide/Leader/Authority/Coach/Administrator/Parent. Do not parentify your children.

My mom tries to get my kids to side with her against me about real and imaginary conflicts. It is very disturbing, disgusting and frustrating.

'Even if we aren't with them we feel responsible for them' Yes! All of these things hit all the marks, thank you so helpful! It's stuff that is so hard to explain and flesh out.

I always wondered why my parents seem to not want to know me. Never ask me how I am, what I’m doing, etc etc. Now I understand, they never expected me to have my own identity. I’m only an extension of them who needs to hear about how they feel, and what appliance of theirs broke, etc, etc. They HATE my boundaries and I love living 1,000 miles away. Thank you for this content! ❤❤❤

This was brilliant! You explained my relationship with my mother so well. I had to be her everything and if I didn't fulfill her needs, she punished me. It was an awful way to grow up. The guilt I felt in the relationship was unbelievable. It would keep me awake at night. Enmeshment in any relationship is unhealthy. I wish I had this information decades ago.

This is so true for my realtionship with my mom. I'm 31 now and I've been trying to keep my distance from her now and she can still make me feel guilty by texting me. Shes so mad that I'm not enmeshed with her like I was before, that she talks to me horrible now and acts like I'm against her.

My undiagnosed borderline mom died almost 3.5 years ago. It was just her and me when I was growing up and we were so enmeshed. It was such a relief to have her gone. I feel like I am finally able to grow up and discover who I am and what I actually like separate from her.

😭😭 I'm just tired of my mother acting victim all the time. I'm just tired but she has no where to go but here with me. 😭😭💔💔

As a single parent it has been extremely difficult to deal with an enmeshed mother who also helps with child care. I have just recently taken a step back and the blow back from it has been difficult. Thanks for the reminder that I’m better off paying someone to watch my kid that will listen. She just thinks I’m selfish and crazy for taking a step back, it’s the best act of self love and protection I’ve done for myself in a long time.

What a great explanation. I was deeply enmeshed with my narcissistic father whom I still called Daddy right up until the day he passed. I was the golden child and was reminded frequently that I was the only one "turning out right". My three siblings who struggled with addictions and mental illnesses all passed early from what I believe now to be a life of self medication to treat their inner pain. I adored and feared my father at the same time. I felt responsible for his happiness, something my mother reinforced by telling me I was his perfect companion at a very early age. I was terrified of disappointing him. He wanted me to stay with him forever, and even on my wedding day was telling me I was making a mistake and that is wasn't too late to change my mind. I felt terrible guilt for abandoning him. Thank you for these wonderful videos that are helping me to make sense of my past so that I can rescue my present and future.❤

Thank you for calling out this “best friend” stuff some parents do. It is so icky and controlling.

I was married to a covert passive aggressive narcissist for 18 years who had a meshed relationship with his daughter. He made her a golden child and used her to triangulate me the entire marriage. When I spoke up and called him out he discarded me. Didn't know what it was till I was out of the marriage and did my research. Great video describing the dynamics of this twisted behavior!

my mom has borderline and is still fundamentally a sweet person, but labile and chaotic. this video describes me and my struggles today and it's so impactful to hear my story validated. it's so difficult to think on my childhood because i don't want to criticize or hurt my mom, but my programming for relationships is so painful now :(

I am the borderline mother of I think was a borderline mother and never knew I was doing this to my children. I knew there was something wrong with me and I was under what I think was a dependent/controling psychiatrist. I never wanted to hurt my children or anyone. I didnt have the skills or knowing. Thank you for the insight into how my children feel. Sandra

That is an "emotional Blindspot" for just about everyone regardless of thier age. Enmeshment becomes a subconscious fixation on the unstable emotions of someone else. You tend to lose all sense of your own identity.

I’ve come to realize in recent years that I have a highly toxic relationship with my mother, who very much models behavior of a borderline narcissist. She has a very unhealthy attachment to me and lashes out when I assert my independence. Watching this video has been pretty illuminating.

Only child, just mom and me growing up. The enmeshment was huge-she referred to me as being such a 'good' baby b/c I was quiet and didn't need much from her...she even stopped breastfeeding me at 3 months I think for her own benefit (taking too much from her?) and also smoked all while pregnant w/ me and thereafter (which I hated but she couldn't put that aside for my health). When I hit puberty, I became a 'b$#%@' in her eyes and difficult b/c I started to pull away and find my own interests (which were different from hers). She would often say 'we like this music' or 'we like those clothes,' going so far as to say how tall we both were even though I was a few inches taller than her, as though we were one entity. When I'd say 'We aren't the same person,' or 'I don't like that music' or 'I don't like this top you bought me,' it's like she couldn't hear it OR would get angered and counter with 'well I do!!' as though she needed to override or negate me. I parented her and was forced to listen to her relate stories from her own abuse, over and over...things that no 8 year old (or whatever age I was) should have been exposed to. I had one counselling session when I was around 15, and my mom hated it b/c she knew I was going to be talking about her and she couldn't stand that, as though she had done no wrong. I never got further counselling until I was in my 20s and away from home. No other adult was around to see this sickness and stand up for me...I felt so alone and unable to really understand what was going on with my mom, so I internalized everything. I often felt like I was going crazy. What was massively prevalent in my mom was/is a victim mentality, rage issues, martyr syndrome. She even went so far as to say she wished she'd had a boy instead b/c she thought boys would've been so much easier (even though all her brothers were abusive to her). In my 40s I'm finally figuring out that my mom may have enmeshed narcissism, which has been so hard to pinpoint b/c she is not grandiose or overt. It's been a challenging journey, and I'm glad to finally be getting the help and awareness I have sorely been lacking. It's like undergoing deprogramming. Thanks for your informative and helpful video!

The last time I tried to set boundaries with my mom, she called my siblings and told them I was being mean to her. They then called me and told me to stop messing with their mom…yet they call themselves a “support system”

I’m watching your videos to refresh my understanding of the Queen-mother in my life. Slowly we became enmeshed again after a couple of years no contact. Her toxicity is negatively affecting my life and right now I’m taking a break to reset boundaries. Thank you for the kind and gentle way you teach.

Thank you!! I so appreciate you talking about these issues. I see this in my life and I also know so many codependent people who will defend their abusers until their dying breath. That’s the hardest thing to build: a sense that it’s ok for you to belong to yourself when you’ve had no structure that says any such thing! Thanks so much for the work you do and for sharing it here! ☺️

When you started going down the list of things we can have a hard time doing…spot on!

I'm OBSESSED with your videos. Even your voice is so soothing and validating. I have been watching videos non-stop for days. I've been in therapy for years and am in therapy again for the first time in 2 years. Watching your videos along side the therapy has given me some amazing energy. Thanks so much xox

Dr Kim your videos are so valuable. There are not really any other videos out there about the complex relationship with a borderline parent. Thank you for your time and efforts!

You have the nicest videos, always kind and gently urging us in the right direction. Thank you.

Thank you for this. I find bits & pieces that fit my childhood, but parts don't seem to fit anywhere at all for identifying what I grew up with. I've cried through a lot of your videos because I identify with a Lot of the behaviors or results you talk about. CPTSD is largely Ingrained in me from experiences throughout my life & Im enjoying taking from your videos some validation, but more so an understanding of a few of the why's. Thank you.

Thank you Dr. Sage, you have hepled me to identify why I never feel at peace. Feeling responsible for averting disaster all the time, because I expect it!

I knew something was wrong with my boyfriends relationship with his 19 & 20 year old daughters. He was always seeking their approval, parenting out of fear, triangulating me with them by constantly making comments to both of us about each other (usually i was being devalued), , constantly repeating the same comments about what they "wear" when they go out (when on a date with me) and then one day at the dinner table, when I was ignored for the whole time - because it was all about them (touching daughter inappropriately to the point that she was pushing him away, and making comments like "why don't you come stay at mine") - I felt creeped out. That's when I walked out - at the table, then & there - poor girls. yuk. addit precursor - when the girls walked into dads house, they had completely ignored me. Getting to the point im glad I'm out of there but it has taken me a while.

Dr Kim you are the best!😍😍😍

Thank you kindly for these videos :)

Thank you for another wonderful video Dr Sage!

Thank you for validating this experience.

Your work is remarkably healing.

My mother and I were extremely enmeshed. She was married four times but it was not ok for me bc I had to take care of her and my siblings and every other immature idiot. I'm going to be 68 in January and all my parents and stepparents are deceased and I'm asking God for a husband. I'm single, have never married, and have a child in Heaven bc my mom told me which doctor to go to for an abortion. I have been working on these issues since 1987 and I'm ready for my own life with a man ♂️🙏🩷🫂

You have such a clear and concise way of delivering this information, thank you for helping me understand these patterns of behavior more so that I can make new choices ❤

Wonderful! Thank You so Much!

Hood Gawd, I can identify with so much of what you shared Dr Kim. Thank You for being so well informed and sharing this valuable information with us. I got all your references. We are of the same generation. ☺

Well spoken. Thank you.

Thank you so much! This is everything!

Thank you Kim

Great video, thanks so much.

Great video. I'm at the point where I'm trying to break patterns of enmeshment with my own children. I am pretty sure my mother has an undiagnosed personality disorder. I broke away from the enmeshment with her, but now I'm seeing that I do not have any knowledge on how to relate to my children in a way that isn't reminiscent of enmeshment. I thought that I was helping them to regulate their emotions, but really I was still trying to "fix" or change their feelings. I think this is common since it is really the adults inability to manage their own emotions, so they attempt to control others emotions to feel better. I am learning how to create more affect tolerance in myself through therapy, medication, and my ongoing psychological work. Any tips or advice on how to break these residual patterns, even when you don't have a PD (you just don't know anything else because you've only known enmeshment as a way of relating to others)?

I love you soooooo much. You have no idea how much you have helped me. ❤

One very frequent reason for parentification/infantilization and in general enmeshment family is because when parents have their children grow up, it is not to become their own independent beings, but instead take it for granted that their kids will become a committed caregiver for them, especially when elderly. Sometimes they would switch between reversing the parent-child roles and infantilizing their child(even if they are adults), usually the infantilization will happen when the child asks for their boundaries to be respected or when they attempt to assert age appropriate autonomy, but in general it depends on what is most convenient for them, this switching is a very good sign that the parent-child relationship is enmeshed

thanks . very nice advice.

Very well explained thank you .

This is the best by far video I have listened to regarding enmeshement

Great video. Nicely detailed and spelled out.

Thank you so much.

Thank you for giving this validation. It does become very complicated once your own kids enter the mix.. It is assuring to hear you state so clearly that not relying on them is generally for the best.

Beautiful Beautiful Beautiful!😍

The documentary ‘Bright Lights’ depicts the complicated enmeshment between Reynolds and Fisher.

So true so true thank you for explaining this enmeshment

You are amazing ❤

This is incredible. I am just now coming to understand all of this at 28 years old. Do you have any information or being raised by a couple who is a borderline and their partner is a narcissist? I can't find much on the subject and I would love to hear more on the subject from professionals or others who have suffered from this.

Good stuff, all true. Hard to grow up an enmeshed son of a narc mother. Going no contact was the only way free, but it's so, so, so hard to do (the guilt is insane).

Thank you for great insights. You mentioned that you wish you did some of the inside work 20/30 years ago yourself. That is an admirable admission. I have a friend that studied psychology and she a great insight into others. But the lack of her self-insight is surprising, almost perpexing. She is quite sensitive to feedback. What are some tips to help her along?

This video 👏🏼👏🏼 I feel I'm in the middle of feeling like I'm responsible for both sides, parent(s) and children. I am in therapy

You said it all

I felt the same way about characterizing your children as best friends. However, as they become adults and we have mutual respect for one another I have a different opinion. My daughters are brilliant women whom I genuinely respect. We respect each other and feel safe because of our healthy dynamic. I trust their insight more than anyone I know. I think we genuinely consider ourselves best friends. My daughters are each other’s best friend. They have referred to me as their best friend and mom. We have done our inner work and continue to do so. I am grateful to say I don’t know of another family who is more healthy than ours. Would love to hear your thoughts on my perspective. I shared your perspective until my relationship shifted with my daughters as adult women.

Is this the same as emotional/covert incest?

Yes, yes, YES!

My mom told my toddler son that he can call her “mom”. She went into a fit of rage once and told me that she’s taking my son away from me so she could raise my son and that my son was really her son.

Right. Divorced, needed help watching my kids...she started pitting them against me. I tried to cut her off so many times. Honestly hated her.

Between enmeshment and trauma bonding (are they actually the same thing?) and being in a powerless position for approximately 18 years, do we even have a chance to be ourselves?

Is rage always obvious? Can it be sleeping excessively/silent treatment? My mom was not vocal, but slept inordinate amounts of time and was cross and removed.

How to fill voids so that pattern doesnot repeat ?

Oh my god. I don't know what to do. I have an upstairs neighbor who is malevolent. She and I had a falling out and instead of going on with her life and me going on with mine, she began to throw extremely heavy objects on her floor/my ceiling. I think she has weights and was smashing one on the floor. It happened 3/4 of the summer. I would be sitting in my living room, paralyzed from the sound. She and her husband are divorced and she told me he was the narcissist. Well, it turns out maybe that's true, but she is as well, or borderline as you put it. Like a furious child in an adult body. Her husband has custody but she visits her mom. I finally had enough and started using my broom on the ceiling and yelling for her to stop. It never worked. One night, a mysterious boom came from somewhere. I thought it was her acting up again. She thought it was me. Or so she says. I was furious, this wasn't going to happen at night. I grabbed my broom and yes, started screaming at the ceiling. Her 15 or 16 year old child was there. She texted me that she and her child "knew the truth." After watching your videos and all she can say about her child is how much he is achieving, and so admired by her, and involving her child in the statement that he knows the truth as well, whatever that means, it sounds like this video! I had had it and called a manager to deliver to the owner all the times she abused me and was starting again. Then a meeting was held for me to voice my complaints and then hers. A letter was then sent out, finally (I hope) blocking her from doing these things. But she seems enmeshed with her son. The comments and the fact that I have seen no friends ever come over because she may be incapable of friendship except with her child says a lot. Her child really is exceptional. My eyes filled with tears at not being able to tell him his mother had been abusing me and doesn't know the real story. I want to say something to her but I know his mother, if she knew, would not be able to handle it. Maybe someday I can just say, "you don't know the whole story." I grew up in a dysfunctional family and this sweet child I want to protect so much. What can you do in a situation like this? It breaks my heart 😟Btw, I have been using the term he, because it's actually a girl who is trans. I hope you can accept that.💗

I was sure that my mother had BPD. But now I'm not so sure because while there is definite enmeshment , I almost feel like it's more on my part. My mother wasn't a helicopter parent, she was actually more neglectful and seemed a little dethatched dealing with her own mental issues I suppose. I felt very lonely and unheard as a child. But when we did have communication she was usually angry or seemed kind of inconvenienced when I wanted to connect emotionally or express my own depression. As an adult I have deff struggled with having that separation of self from her. I take care of her and feel very guilty when I don't give her whatever she asks me for. But is it bpd? I don't know. Am I the one with bpd? Whenever she uses drugs or alcohol or makes stupid reckless decisions, I get so angry and upset that she keeps doing these things that she knows hurts me very deeply, I get very verbally angry and abusive towards her. I can't control it. She just wants me to leave her alone and let her do what she wants, but then when she comes down and is depressed and feels like life isn't worth living I have to be there to pick up the pieces emotionally, financially. I just want to know what's wrong with her, us. etc. I need answers so I can make sense of why my childhood, and my adult hood is plagued with feelings of emptiness, and inadequacy, self loathing, depression. etc. I feel like a child and like I've never seen myself as an adult even though Im 35 years old. I've always felt like I had to walk on eggshells with her and everyone else. I feel like a child with every adult. it's bizarre . I feel like How can I be a mother when I am still a child? It sounds embarrassing and pathetic but it's how I feel . Anybody else?

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Welcome to my mom!

debbie reynolds chose my father from hundreds of soldiers in n.korea and he went up on stage and met her.i have pictures.

👋😋

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do u even have kids?

Thank you so much for your videos. I really relate to this. Your way of speaking is really compassionate, and helps me to not feel so alone.