Enneagram: When Good Goes Bad For Type 5 

I'm a 5 and dislike small talk. I will usually avoid eye contact when I pass by someone. I don't want my thoughts interrupted so I always hope the other person won't say anything to me. I don't think I'm better than someone else, I just don't want to interact.

I do agree that there are social norms and sometimes I have to chit chat when I would prefer not to. I've learned to be charming and connected when need be.

I learned that I was a type 5 after a spiritual awakening. Just like the book says, I find myself deep into the occult and mystery religions and have been in the rabbit hole for almost 5 years. The 5w4 should be called “the tormented.” However, once a 5 comes out of the hole, they have wisdom to share and can perhaps do something positive with the information.

The last thing you said is absolutely correct. 5's don't like to show up to receive credit or affirmations for their achievements. For example: I skipped my high school graduation ceremony even though I was on the honour roll. I was going to skip my college graduation ceremony as well, but my mom convinced me otherwise. 5w4 here.

I actually think I understand other people’s emotions better than my own so I know when to drop the facts at the appropriate time and not overwhelm people.

This is pretty much 100% correct. I feel very understood, BUT I disagree that we barge in and take stuff and look at stuff and intrude. We don’t want to need anything from anybody. That’s the point. I’m very sensitive to whether or not my presence is bothering someone. I’m more aware of others feelings about my presence than I am about my own. Which has been a problem for me. Reading a room and being sensitive to when I need to stop sharing information. I have a very aggressive 4 wing, though. Thanks for this series. I’m enjoying it.

I'm a 5w4 sx and an INFJ in mbti. it's not the most common kind of 5 but the way it makes me different is that a lot of what my energy and information gathering (psychology, philosophy, behavioral analysis) go into is an unusual degree of emotional intelligence which also uses intuition (INFJ). I am really overwhelmed by people's emotions though and that is what makes me isolate and intellectualize. I carefully manage my schedule to control my direct exposure to people but when in their company I'm extremely sensitive to their needs and always find a way to represent the facts in the way they can handle. I'm actually overwhelmed by the responsibility I put on myself in that regard. my second strongest enneagram type is 2 so you can see the paradoxical nature of my existence. I do always operate from that 5 position for defense though. I can come off very 4 like in whole but I'm far more focused and organized with my body of knowledge and I ultimately don't care what others think of me even though being unique is the direction I go in. I thought it would be informative for your understanding of the essential 5 mechanism to consider INFJ 5s. we aren't common but there is a consistent percentage. it really changes the emotional intelligence aspect. otherwise, you are totally right about most 5s and honestly, I can really totally shut down if I'm too overwhelmed. but my typical focus involves a lot of intuition and social dynamics. I still overly process it with rigorous standards though 😆 and try to avoid people as much as I can..

Lol @ the grunt. It’s true. And we like headphones.

I made a really evil laugh at the "I am the needed one and the rest of you guys do something I guess" point. And I am not ashamed. 🙂

Im at a low point and not gonna lie this hit deep i felt a lot of uncomfort throughout this video :( it’s true the being very detached from my emotions thing, I’ve really hurt people in the past without being aware of it. I’m an intj female 19 and I recently quit my job as a receptionist.. you can already imagine how that went. I was told I was one of their best receptionists that they have had but the whole dealing with people constantly thing, was so draining and took a huge toll on my mental health. Especially because the management was very terrible. I don’t understand why people want to be an intj or 5 personality it’s actually miserable and I feel pathetic. I think we’re all just wired differently, some areas are more difficult for us and being emotionally detached is a very difficult thing to deal with realistically, especially as a woman when you’re expected to be nurturing and in tune with those areas. Still, it’s so important to understand our strengths and weaknesses in order to grow.

Most of the time when I actually do make the effort to step outside of my comfort zone and try to talk with someone: ask them how they're doing, what they think about, what their preferences or interests are, they ignore me or refuse to answer my questions. That's discouraging.

The part about small talk... it just makes me uncomfortable as a 5... I always feel like I’m annoying people by talking to them or like I might say the wrong thing and be made fun of or just don’t understand how to continue a conversation naturally, it makes me extremely nervous. Yes I do always feel like I’m outside the group and don’t understand why. Lol. I don’t mean to make people feel uncomfortable around me I just get so scared of making a mistake that I’d rather stay away than risk being made fun of.

I don't overvalued data. I undervalue emotional responses that refuse to acknowledge reality and seem to desire wallowing in emotions.

Cutting through garbage and doesn't make one as valuable as you might think. People think they have a claim on your loyalty against the data, and get mad at you for speaking the truth. And so many landmines, cos you know you should shut up and say nothing, but they keep pressing you for your 'real opinion', then you say it and they hate you for it. Like, then don't ask.

Type 5 here. While watching this video I was like, yeah that's me. Then after the bad part, oh.. Yeah that's me. Lol

I wonder if the people coming into a 5's space now how rude it is to snoop into other peoples space. I am a 5 and I get irritated when my sister comes over starts looking thru all my cupboards and closets etc. I dont think I am the one with the problem.

The part about the grunting and personal space- 😂 I realise that must be super annoying to other people, but sometimes interacting just takes too much effort. Sounds douchy, but it's how I work

Up to 20% of the population are High Sensitive People, high introversion that's actually not a disorder...

My ability to be objective with situations is what seems to make most people the most irritated with me.

I do not believe that we do not understand social norms, if anything we understand them too well. I would never go to someone's house and go through their personal belongings, that is so cringe.

I think being an INFJ 4w5, I got lucky with having VERY high intuition with the INFJ, and having the 5 as my wing helps me to be able to still gather information, but not ignore intuition and feelings from my 4.

'motivated to learn and to share with others' Summary of my life

Oh man, I had a good laugh from parts of this video. I'm a 5 and nice to hear about some of the bad traits in a more comedic way. My fave point: "at the end of the day, people might be glad to appreciate a cactus, but you don't HUG a cactus." Lol, I am always hyper aware of how I put people off, usually due to being awkward that people just want distance. But it makes me sad, because I do want to connect, I'm just not good at it. Also - I think we need to do away with this '5s have no emotions trope'. Might be true for many 5s, esp ones that are more on the spectrum, BUT the simplistic descriptions of types can lead to problems. It's the main reason many female 5s to mistype as fours ( because they do sense they have strong emotions and may have very high emotional intelligence, therefore think they must be 4s).

I hate the emotional drama at work - I can usually sum it up and separate it out like you said - just get on with it LOL! but I do greet people and talk to them about their family, etc

20:26 I have literally sat at work with my fingers in my ears in the break room, reading my Kindle, and resenting having to pull out one finger just to swipe to the next page because one or more of my co-workers are listening to TV or RU-vid or TikTok on their phones. So who is rude - me trying to quietly read, or them with their blaring phones? And most of the time I don't say anything to them - my break time is valuable and I don't want to waste it getting into a conflict that ultimately won't stop them the next time they feel like pulling out their phones. Unless I want to cause a really big scene, which I don't. I do occasionally engage one of them. "Wow, that's the loudest phone speaker I've ever heard. Most people complain that their phone's speaker sucks." It's my subtle way of letting them know they're bothering me. And the worst culprits aren't teenagers - it's middle-aged/old men. Although the guy I talked to about phone speakers did shut his off after a minute or two. Did I deal with that situation in a healthy or unhealthy 5 way?

People treat each other like slaves. They assign duties to other people, without their consents. They even dare to "expect" something from a stranger. Then psychopaths use this expectations to "assign" duties and create other "expectations".

I have literally said that to myself, "Why are they mad at me? I never talk/look/know their name." And, your explanation is understandable but, I still can't relate. If someone didn't know my name, didn't talk to me, or didn't ever look at me, it wouldn't bother me. I'd actually be grateful, that I wouldn't have to deal with that person.

I'm a 5 and I agree with most and it fits, I'm also 45 years old so maybe I've learned some, but I'm not great at small talk. I do massive amounts of research, and I'm not very emotional. I'm now planning to start a new business that requires relationships, and I wish I was better at the small talk.

I died 🤣you deff my daughter is a five my son is a 5 I am a 5 when you got to the grandmother part I died. I lost it I couldn’t stop laughing. I think you’re more than just an expert figure absolutely psychic you should be famous.

Oh yeaaaaaaaaah, 🤣 I really love when people dont talk to me... when it happen, I literally think: why is he asking me that? We are not friends, he dont need to know that 😒

Uuugh....... I'm 4 with a heavy 5 wing. This 5 is tough one for me to hear but good at the same time. My wife tells me I am this way a lot of the time. Some people at church (I'm a worship leader at a four square church) see me like this as well. I've been looking at it solely as a 4 but this 5 layer is tough to acknowledge... Gonna wrestle with this one for a bit... PS Tom, I thoroughly enjoy this channel. I've spent many hours watching. Thank you for doing what you do. Blessings.

All the 5s in unison said “yeah. Ok so if it doesn’t have chocolate chips, it’s a sugar cookie so no it’s not actually missing anything because it’s a different kind of cookie. If it were a chocolate chip cookie, it would have chocolate chips. Maybe it needs more chocolate chips”. Lol 😂 My boyfriend is a 5. 😉

oh my god. how are you doing today? eh.. how's it going? eh.. or just stare into space until they go away. sometimes it's even "one second please stop talking and let me think" that's so me. 🤦‍♀️

As a five I'm a bit prickly and I like it that way, it keeps people at a perfect distance. People really don't have boundaries for the most part, it's disturbing.

Sexual 5s are emotional and intuitive so I wish some of this addressed that the counter type 5 is more in touch with emotions and intuition. Would love to see a counter type 5 video it took me years to figure out I’m a sexual 5w4 instead of a 4w5

Emotional energy as information for a five.....THAT is a very helpful insight.

Agreed on your points- Im writing a book on AutoImmunity. But there is never ending research that is coming out on it. So I have to put a cap on what Im gathering. Yes I'm a 5. I'm very intuitive however. I love public speaking on topics I know.

Wow, I'm a 5. So many times I've defused a situation like arguments between two people. I also remember a car wreck where the other person was flipping out and I was sitting there blank and just got out of the car and assessed the situation.

Wow, this is incredibly true and insightful! I am starting to realise that maybe there's nothing wrong with me - I'm just a 5! Haha!

"stop the research and just cure the disease" But what if there's some small detail I missed that can have a drastic outcome later down the road "We are emotional creatures" 5 are emotionally detached ergo we are not emotional creatures

I’m highly intuitive and tuned in, but I don’t CARE when I’m in the mode of facts and data. Feelings are irrelevant (including mine) when there is truth to impart. It’s like tandem dump truck bull dozer. I’m usually pretty careful to give the facts logically and dispassionately but they aren’t received like that sometimes. I’m usually pretty certain how any and everyone will receive my information but it doesn’t matter if they are saying things that aren’t supported

Of course... this is not entirely true. We feel, as you have mentioned; and we do desire to get to the point. But ask yourself, what is the point to the five? It's just information. Information collection is our favorite pastime, like foot ball to others. Our point is your point, emotional connection just in a.... VERY VERY VERY deep level. We watch you (everyone else) all day, and if we are in tune with the enneagram, we can even see other fives. Lol it's funny when we realize we see each other. Because it's like invisible woman meeting invisible man in some parallel dimension where there form is revealed only to each other. Buddy, I forget your name, but you mentioned in one of your videos that you would greet the young five at church and they would be quick, short, distant, and can awkward you out of a conversation. While this is true, what a five is seeking is a fellow "Renaissance Thinker" a savant of their own trade. Something they are passioned about. Though what is pivotal is your ability to convey this. Communication is sooo important. Word choice, tone, pace, cadence, and more. (always more). We don't care for your quick hellos becauses we know it will be a quick good bye once we decide to invest into the conversation.

INTJ 5 Gemini, very true and concise, save i don't see anything wrong with i not wanting to know more or exchange pleasantries with people who are irrelevant to me, Very well done, imho of course, hooah

One thing you forgot to mention is that fives neglect their physical fitness, and are often really exposed to the elements, including other people, which makes isolation more comfortable for them. Feeling unsafe around basically everything is a big trait of fives and influences a lot of what they do, dogslice.

I relate to all this but I feel as though it's presented without much of an answer to how we're ideally supposed to function. I'm made tremendous effort to learn social norms and then remember to apply them, etc. But is there some way to help other people understand/accept me so I /don't/ have to constantly change my character in order not to be hurting others? When I'm myself, it hurts others because of social norms, when I create the act of social norms (was a bartender for a while), it's not being true to myself at all. Where's the balance? I continue to think solitary monastic life might be the best option for a five. Ps. Thank you for the videos. They are useful information.

As an ENFP type 5, I really can read the emotions of others well. But I keep getting type 5 when I do quizzes? I totally value the feelings of others. Although your description of Bob and the argument totally described how I deal with my daughters to be a fair parent! I’m very sensitive too though. I guest I’m just strange.

I'm unsure if I'm a 7 or a 5 because I possess a lot of qualities of both. Watching this video and your 7 videos both resonate with me 😵

Thanks Doc! I really needed to hear this.

5 here. Customers are why real work can’t get done. I loathe the notion. Most “customers” need an expert but in American culture they think they are already despite needing information/service from you. All they have to do is want (easy/no effort) but the provider has the burden of fulfillment (tedious, under staffed, time consuming) yet we’re supposed to act like their needs have made our life complete. I strive to be the lowest maintenance customer possible when in that position.

I think sexual type 5s with a 4 wing are so cute. - INTJ 1w9

I’m 5w4 and INTP I have made the tests many times .. but i feel like i’m emotional and sensitive inside but i hide it although a lot of people told me i’m harsh and don’t feel others :/. Also I don’t like conflicts that comes out of saying facts and arguing. Idk is this normal for 5w4 or maybe i’m just 4w5 🤔

So thankful for this. Thank you!

Thinks "I don't invade others space" 🤔 Remembers how I always steal my husbands towel and phone charger...🤦

OMG THIS IS SO ACCURATE!!!!!!

15:45 yes that is exactly how 5s think

I don’t want a hug so I’m fine with being a cactus. “Why do they think I don’t like them, I don’t even know their name.”- sounds completely normal to me.

I think it could be useful for you to benchmark what you're learning about Enneagram type 5, with the MBTI's system regarding INTPs. My guy is an INTP, / type 5, and I find it has helped me to cross reference the two. 👌

As a 5sx, I am more emotionally in tune with others and myself. I find it difficult to relate to some of these examples.

Good information!

You know you are on to something when he sais "You just know in your gut that this is that, common sense" and you are impulsively saying "Objection". Common sense makes no sense.

Why am I getting three numbers when I test? Can somebody help me out? I got 5,7,6 in that order. What does this mean???

I experienced an abusive type 5 father. it is terrible

Why would that pereon be upset with me? I literally have necer spoken to them. Yeah I can see my train of thought at a time in the past being like that.

I heard about the Enneagram types 2 or 3 years ago from Richard Rohr. I just jumped back to the topic, because I feel like, I have to change something up and be careful on how I continue with that down feeling I am stuck in right now. I have watched now about 4 videos about 5 and was re-assured, that I must be one. but listening to this particular video, I am now doubting it a lot. so either I was wrong about 'diagnozing' myself as a 5. Or now I am 48 and after a lot of inner work also spiritual work, somethings are different now. Or, you overdraw here something (other than is usual, when speaking about pure types), that is irritating. Within the first 10 min. I noticed that remark of being unable to read a room as example. It is interesting, that I can read rooms very well. Unfortunately, in one on one interaction I cannot connect, what I sense and how I act. That applies mostly on non professional settings. Maybe I had learned to sense certain things in my 20s and now I have that. Can't tell. But what really irritates me, is what you say around min. 9-11 in this video. When you talk about, information and emotions. Maybe that is also something I have learned and acknowledged over the years. Really insecure now about this, but the last weeks and again just yesterday I had a conversation with a colleague at work, arguing exactly the opposite way. I was insisting, that maybe an emotional person have good reasons for his reaction - even if it is inappropriate and a sign of 'loosing control' - the reason behind it, might be a valid point. the emotions can easily be stirred up, because that person feels, that is important and the other side imbarricades..... As Englisch is not my first language I struggle making the point. I hope, you understand, what I mean. That is thing is really confusing to me. Going by how I feel right now, I cannot imagine, I see that differently just because I have evolved that much. Also, I think, I did think that way as a child too. I just had a much harder time, to abstract the information behind an emotion. Do you have any ideas about this (I didn't finish the video, because I have to leave home now and wanted to write this down first)

Hi, Dr. What do you think about Tritypes? Is it legit?

5/6=ibtj here just recognize my prickely cactusdom..🤣🤩😁👏👏👏🥰😊😙🤪

I've learned 4709 fun facts just for the niceties and I can annoy people to hell with every one of them. 😁

I need this like I need water

Hmm . Youhavedone well here on this channel w t5

Interesting as a 7

It's not aristocracy.....I want to be left alone. Especially by extreme extroverts.

I have to say that fellow 5s come across as bitter edgelords in the comments...lighten up ffs

Hey fives - wanna start a chat room and never talk to each other?

i noticed that there is an ESV Bible behind u

I’m all the worst personality traits of a 5. Stuck in my head. No future that I can clearly see. Hyper fixated on skateboarding to distract myself from my own shortcomings. All I want to do is smoke weed, skate and just exist and that’s not how it works 🫤