Entry-Level Watch Collectors Should Forget About Seiko... SAD! (SPB313) 

Definitely meant to say “4 o’clock crown.” Oh well, I’m still learning how to tell analogue time. 🤷‍♂️

Agree to disagree. I love the placement, shape, and size of the date window. And the King Turtle is not a perfect substitute for this watch-it's WAY bigger and chunkier. For someone like me, it's not appealing. This watch, however, is a wonderful size and a much nicer design.

One of the most well respected luxury diver watches on the market (Blancpain Fifty Fathoms) has a date at the 4:30 position. Truely I would argue that seiko executed the date better than a $18K watch because it is upright. I know everyone is allowed to have opinions, and I agree that traditionally dates at this location are a “no-no” but I believe it is done well and I appreciate that it is there. Just got my guilted variant and it is beautiful. Much better than my guilted turtle that I absolutely loved.

I bet that for $1,200 the bezel does not line up with the 12 o'clock marker either. That's a Seiko exclusive and badge of honor.

I recently picked up a NEW Samurai, which seemed to fill the right boxes. Divers 200 mt, beautiful very Japanese looking case, large knurled crown, drilled lugs, nice finish etc. $300-$400. Very happy with it and as an added bonus, the chapter ring is perfectly aligned. :)

Regarding that round date window at four-thirty, I would argue that the fact that is round and the numbers reoriented to read upright instead of radially suggests it was not an afterthought. It is not a bug, it is a feature-a feature you do not like. I think they should have used their new no-date version of the 6R movement in this but I also think most watch folks prefer to have a date complication.

At least the date wheel matches the dial. I like this piece a lot. Seiko making watches all over the price range is something people will need to get used to.

I’d like to point out that the placement of the date window isn’t an afterthought. For the watch to be a certified ISO diver there has to be a lumed piece at 3 o’clock. So instead of trying to shoe-horn a tiny lumed marker in between the date and edge of the dial (which they’ve done before on other models) they just moved it altogether.

Whats the problem ? There are several options in the 300-500 USD range within the Seiko offering. For some reason Seiko are expected to give away watches for nothing. Other brands could benefit from the same scrutiny as Seiko gets.

I'm wearing the SPB317 right now, with the rubber strapped swapped out for the braclet from the green dial Tortoise. It's a lovely watch, carries the vintage looks and vibes of the original it's based on. Yeah, it's more expensive than a typical turtle. The date window isn't hardly noticeable, tbh. But the sublty domed saphire crystal, the slightly different brushed shoulders etc, make it look stunning.

I have kept holding back for a more expensive Seiko, but the SBDC167 has to be the most interesting, creative/dialed watch from anyone, in a long time. The recent MM reduced watches are fantastic.

I picked up an SPB317 for $740 new from an AD. I’ve had it for two weeks now. Overall, I like it. It’s well finished, it looks good and it feels well made. And, shockingly, everything lines up. My only beef is with the movement. It’s current running 40+ seconds per day fast. I know these 6R’s can use some time to settle in (my SPB153 did) so I’m hoping smooths out after some time.

About three years ago, I got a promotional deal through JomaShop for the Orient Kamasu for well under $300. Like all divers (no matter who makes it), it's too big for my tiny little 6.3" wrist (don't laugh, I can clean my own garbage disposal!). It has a saphire crystal, 200m water resistance, Day/Date complication, and it gains about 6 to 8 seconds a day. All for about $900 less.

This looks so much better than the KT - it looks so much more refined. KT is indeed a value prop but this (and a lot of the other Seiko £1k stuff) is simply better - slightly better finishing, slightly better bracelet, slightly better crystal, dia shield treated, better movement, better aesthetics. That’s a lot of slightly betters that add up to a better watch - which shockingly is more expensive. Yes compared to Seiko divers from mid 2010s this isn’t a great value prop. Compared to entry level Swiss stuff in same price bracket and a bit above it’s a killer value proposition. In todays market these seikos are fairly priced imho.

I love my Baby Alpinist SPB155. Way under a grand ($600- with discounts) for a beautiful Seiko that includes sapphire and the same 6R35 as this SPB313. No bezel to misalign either. Have to agree about divers though, and Orient is killing it in the affordable arena.

I think this Seiko you talk about should be compared to the new Seiko Sumo that also got the 6R35 movement. Have you reviewed Seiko Sumo? Thanks for the info.

Cheers for reassuring me that I made the right call buying a king turtle! It ticks pretty much all of my boxes. Got it about a month ago for about USD350, and I love it. No issues with alignment etc, and it looks gorgeous. The movement is great so far-losing about 4 seconds a week! I’ll see how that goes once summer hits and it experiences more radical temperature variations (ie warm air to very cold water). I also like the silicon band, but for the moment I’ve swapped that out for a Zulu strap that suits it very well.

I'm just gonna say it. I like that date complication.

Hi Jory, I have a question: why isn’t Seiko doing an automatic diver with no date? Is there a particular reason for that? Thanks

I recently entered the hobby and was looking to get a Seiko diver to celebrate a new job. I instead chose an Orient and a Vostok and I am very happy with my purchases. If you like Seikos, consider Signum, Helm or Zelos instead. Far better options with great lume and build quality.

One has to wear this to appreciate why this piece costs so much. Seiko's magic cannot be appreciated by just looking at pictures no matter how well these are taken or doctored.

I know you've reviewed some Timex watches that you liked. I recently picked up their 36mm MK1 Mechanical and think it is a great budget vintage field watch... The Seagull movement can't compete with Swiss movements, but mine is keeping time at +7Spd and is a great alternative to actual vintage military field watches with 35-36mm cases, 17 jewel movements, steel cases, and acrylic crystals. Timex is selling them at 1/2 price ($99) and an email address gets you another 15% off - so $85 for a mechanical field watch with vintage vibes/specs.

Orient is what Seiko was value and quality Seiko is getting to expensive, love the vids keep up the good work!

All the Seiko watches I’m interested in are JDM-only. Also… put a solar cell under a dial that lets through a lot of light, add a capacitor, have them drive a thermocompensated quartz movement good to 10 seconds a year like the ETA PreciDrive models, and… you’ve somewhat inelegantly produced something that’s better than an automatic movement, by some measures.

This is actually a really nice watch once you actually get it in your hands and put it on, you can’t help but think “damn, that looks good.” I picked up the spb313 and don’t regret it one bit. The white dial is precise and beautiful. The date window is brilliant, it’s there when you want it and not there when you don’t. It’s small enough and in a place your eyes aren’t trained to go to so it reads like a no date watch. I don’t think a king turtle is a great alternative to this one as they are way chunkier. I feel like if you’re already seeing it as I do and considering buying it and then went for the king turtle… you’re going to regret it.

Vintage to Newer higher end Seiko are hard to top! Prices are going to the moon on vintage Seiko divers, as they should, relative to other vintage divers. I'd say they take the higher percentage of investment uptick. 👍

Still want the SPB 143, that's a modern Seiko that is worth around $900-1200 range. It uses hardened steel.

Great episode. I was thinking about getting my first mechanical watch and really wanted Seiko but ended up with Orient Triton/Neptune. It really delivers more bang for a buck. Would be curious to know your opinion on some of Orient Star watches and how they compare with King Seiko or just high end Seiko in general.

I bought my heavily preowned Seiko Turtle for $290 on eBay. I absolutely love it.

Seiko fan here, love my grenade to bits, and had to get the all blacked out king turtle version as well, and both are aligned perfectly, but alignment problems start when the pip(or the triangle that contains the pip on the bezel)the isn’t even centered, take a look at the pip inside the upside down triangle on the bezel in the vid. For 500 the pip should be in the center, let alone 1100.

I LOVE the date window. It is perfect. The price is subjective as usual, nobody wants the prices to increase obviously but this is what Seiko is doing right now. The only thing we can do is to vote with our wallets. Edit: you’re seriously suggesting the handset is the same quality finishing as the king turtle? Get new glasses my man.

What big more dress style watch would you recommend? I have an 8.25" wrist and currently only have an Orient Kamasu and is really the smallest I can go, but I would like my second to be either a dress watch or a chronograph. I mean I like the dive watch look but isn't really the best option all the time.

I recently got the only one Seiko model that has been on my radar for super long, the Seiko Prospex street series 533. That thing is a best, Solar quartz, diver with 200m, aligned bezel. Just love the overall looks and functionality of it and at the price of 260SGD, can’t fault it! Guess I’m lucky on that one! 😆

Ok, so how do you feel about the Seiko 5 spdr63 ? Its probably not as beloved as the SKX but its below 300$ with great lume and a decent dial.

I don’t like the date window but that black and gold combo might win me over

Love the intro!! As a long time Seiko fanboy, you are right!! 😂 I'm also an SKX owner, a Turtle owner, a Monster owner... and....you'll hate this a Seiko 5 owner!! I do have more Orients however.

I’ve tried looking at Seiko and I agree they don’t get very interesting under $500. That new Ocean blue one looks great for $1200

I would say that entry-level DIVE watch collectors should forget about Seiko, but they do still offer a lot of other entry-level watches.

Yeah man. When I see a new seiko with sapphire and milled clasp, I automatically think minimum 1k.

3 colours available btw. This watch is in the same movement+bracelet+finishing category as the Willard X. Anyway, usually they go for $800 and so will these ones.

I like where the date is. It doesn’t distract from the symmetry, and that’s the big complaint about date windows at 3:00.

I’m still planning on buying an srpe this year

Recently have been going after Seiko Captain Willard.. and I definitely feel the inflation :(

From what I’ve read, the date window was moved to the 4:30 position to keep the ISO rating. All numeral plots now need to be visible because ISO made a change regarding the “Divers” designation. If that is in fact the case it’s not an afterthought. I also think they should have left it off for symmetry reasons.

So, is T3's issue that the date is at the 4:30 position or that it is round and oriented in an upright fashion? I only ask because in a previous video (IIRC about the Seiko 5 GMT) T3 actually recommended getting a SUN065 and mentioned the date complication (which is at the 4:30 position). I have a SUN023 and love the watch and I like having the date complication in the 4:30 spot; the only real difference is the window is square and the numbers have not been reoriented.

I’ve been lusting after the Sharp Edge GMT recently! Gone are the days of the SARB and SARY series, not as good with entry level stuff nowadays.

Never been a Seiko fan due to their QC issues(Bezel lining up and bracletes). Actually like the looks of many of them. And the fact that, espceially in the last 5yrs especially(could push it to 10yrs), there have been so many choices out there at better prices(as you mentioned).

In Hong Kong, after discounted only USD730. I've bought the other one with golden hands, steel bracelet & same specs. Mini turtle fits my small wrist so well.

I'm sorry there Jory the date window was not an afterthought because the date wheel itself would be completely custom for the date to appear straight on the dial. Having the date wheel at 3 or 6 o'clock with that date wheel would look very crooked.

i like the date window... more subtle without being smaller than if it was framed

4:56 what sort of 3s are you smoking?

The white dial is handsome. I love the execution of the date window

Yep agree with the Seiko reference. My Seiko Presage limited Arita Porcelian surely is a wee bit over $1k. But just as nice and better priced than a Grand Seiko IMO.

i don't get it- why can't they put the crown at 4 o'clock precisely?? it really bugs be. or is it for GS only??

You make some good points. I too dislike that date window but only for the way it was designed, The position is fine for me. I tend to prefer no date watches as they tend to have a cleaner look. Thanks for upload.

Since I got my Orient Ray 2 a couple years ago, there just hasn't been another automatic diver I've had a strong desire for. Jory, watch Megamind. It's great! Really underrated movie.

Agree with you 100% Jory. I'm looking at the Dark Manta Turtle on my wrist as I type this response!

I bought a Seiko Quartz type II with a sweet ice frost dial and original bracelet for 150 dollars and in nice condition I guess this is a really nice option considering the history of this watch💪

Very funny video; thank you. I think the date window looks great.

Isn’t the alpinist still sitting around 750? Gosh I’ve wanted one since they were 450

I would love to see a review of the Seiko SNE589. Curious if you think it's a good value or not.

I agree, they are getting a bit silly with pricing in my humble opinion

The watch looks good to me, including the date. I think they did a nice job to hide it yet have the info on the dial. My nitpick is the clasp has only 2 micro adjust positions. I would gladly give up the clasp expander and just have a clasp with 4 positions.

Ok so you can get samurai, tuna, or monster for 300-500…even limited editions like save the ocean. The only difference in spec is sapphire vs hardlux crystal. And a lot of us prefer the look and feel of monster or samurai to the turtle. And lastly, in my opinion the best seiko middle ground is Sumo. You get a beautiful case silhouette sapphire crystal and 6R movement over 4R…and it sells for 650-900 depending on dial or edition!!

Another great video my man 👏

You used to be able to get a PADI certified, Prospex Diver, threaded crown, 120 click bezel, 4 o’clock crown and a datebwindow that isn’t hideous and in a stupid position for like $300. Now, that same watch, with the addition of a sapphire crystal is $500-600 easy. They’re using the quality and popularity of GS to pull their once affordable watches into these ridiculous prices.

Other retailers in the web have it around 850-900 bucks

I take a Quartz Casio for a fraction of these crazy prices. ☺️

The new Seiko reissues are not a horrible deal at 800-1000 dollars. They occasionally do go on sale for that, but they retail here in Sweden around 1300-1500dollars. Tax included of course. The spb, the mm200 and Willard reissues are good watches especially at a discount. But they are not great value like Swatch group watches. They're kinda what like tag Heuer and Breitling are to the entry level premium market. They're what you buy because you love it, not becusee it's good value.

I actually like the placement and design of the date window. But Seiko makes minimal changes on watches, and charges double if not triple the price.

My skx007k was similar to that but crown and date at 3 o'clock mint condition ex display box papers and even the seiko bag and I love it.👌😃👍

At first glance I was tempted to buy this watch. Then I saw the price. For that price you can get one of the 62 MAS reissues which have a much nicer case. The date is small enough to ignore, not really an issue.

My first mechanical watch was a Seiko SRPD55K and I paid $400 AUS for it. Great watch in my opinion and it didn’t cost an arm and a leg.

so what is limited edition? According to seiko when they say limited it couldbe 5K pieces. I consider limited edition under 900 units. any thoughts. prices, are getting ridiculous!

Here's a wrench to throw at this theory. Seiko SRPH97J1 that came out a few months ago. Limited to 8000 and still less than $600 at the moment. 🤜🤛 Probably my favorite watch this year, next to the jazz master revision anyways.

That 3 o’clock crown is an hour late! I actually like a little asymmetry on a dial and don’t mind the date window placement. Why not, the case is also asymmetric.

Gnomon has them on sale for 100 bucks off right now

If it ain't a G-Shock, Jory ain't interested. As is tradition

I couldn't agree more; every Seiko I'm remotely interested in for build quality is $1000÷! Except...I just bought a preowned PADI turtle in mint from my local watch shop and I love it. He had it for $350, got it for $200! Why spend $1000???

Just bought a SARY053 for normal price ($350) off a grey market seller on ebay (which Ive done before without issues) should I be worried??????

Date window is subjective, but paying $500 premium for upgraded movement and sapphire is hard to explain. Oh wait Seiko told us their new strategy was to upsell and get out of the idea they were a bargain watch brand and also help elevate the Grand Seiko image.

Really enjoying the podcast.👍

Dynamic content, keep it coming

Limited to 4000 isn't that limited now is it. Just received the King Samurai Night Vision and I bet most can get theirs too.

For that price maybe the SPB299 Ice Dial with a proper date placement.

The updated ISO standards for dive watches require full lime plots all around the dial, so get used to that date window placement. It definitely isn't a deal breaker for me, but their spotty QC probably is- at any price.

I can't get what's the scandal about prices of Seiko about. Japan isn't cheaper than Swiss, and similar spec Longines/Mido/Tissot with standard ETA movement inside costs the same or more. Also think about the 1st Black Bay with the ETA at 2.5k, or Breitling, again with ETA inside. It's not that I wouldn't like to have same specs for cheaper but if Seiko wants to put itself on the same level of Swiss brands, in our times, it means to also be perceived as valuable and therefore put themselves in the same price range as Swiss brands.

I like the Seiko diver watches ,,,, I get mine on eBay for less than $50 ,,, how they're that price ,,, I have no idea ,,, but when the case is opened , I it shows Seiko stamped everywhere it should ,,, I always replace the bands because my wrists are unfortunately GIGANTIC !!! I have to go with NATO straps ,,, and they're just long enough !!!! I've started getting into Russian watches ,,,,, Rsketa is a favorite ,,,, I've never paid more than $20 for one ,,,,, I love the channel !!! I don't always agree with everything that's said ,,,, but I'm always learning something new !!!! Thanks so much for all that you do !!!!!!

I got the SPB315 brand new for less than $550 in Japan last week. Couldn't believe my eye when I saw the price and I just had to buy it. Very nice watch!

Agreed. Dare i say I'm good with my SKX011J. 200 meter diver with killer lume and that retro style without trying for it. It IS cool. No hacking my only gripe but neither does a 20k (45k) Aquanaut. I'd buy a King Seiko red but that's all that's tempting me.

idk man I normally hate 4ish oclock dates but that one's not bad

I picked up the black dial on the rubber for less than $700 new and had an olongapo band made for it. For that price I don't think its bad. I would have a hard time paying 1K. I like the date window though and don't wear watches without a date function. I had a blackbay 58 for about a year and didn't realize how often I check the date on my watch until it wasn't there.

This watch IRL is sub $800, still expensive, but I think a fair price. The bracelet is actually fitting for the watch and looks nice (although the clasp could be so much better, simple milled double trigger would be fine). Another question to ask - what happens when Seiko makes watches that are comparable to other $1000-$1500 watches in the market (or even surpasses them) with a hundred years of heritage to back it up, is it still expensive? Is it expensive just because it says Seiko on the dial and we have been accustomed to Seiko watches being $400 or less? My only problems with Seiko in the above $800 price point are movement quality and alignment. If Seiko could have movements that keep within -10sec - +15 sec/ day in addition to having no alignment problems, I'm cool with it. I actually think Seiko will own the $800-$1500 watch space in the coming decade.

You have gotten darn good at your videos.

Date window is so cool man. Looks very different and vintage.

Bought the SPB317 in Hong Kong for US$670 after discount. SPB143 brand new are also around $850. Who pays retail for Seiko?

Totally agree with you. Been saying the same thing to my friends . Any seiko that looks good is either limited and or over $1000 and I do not care to spend that on a seiko. For me seiko was always a fantastic brand for under $500 tool watches

This is the first time I totally agree with you Big J.

It has very similar specs to their (in my opinion) better looking SPB155J1 and their Ginzer 140th anniversary limited edition which go for £610 and £670. These two are Alpinists and not Divers, but they have the same water resistance rating. I don't know how they arrived at the price on this Diver.

I have the Presage chrono with the 8R movement in it and have the same gripe about the date window on that watch. I personally hate all date complications except on day/dates and perpetual calendar watches. But these tiny peek-a-boo windows on Seikos are laughable.