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There’s a high chance that Ed didn’t even know the difference between a 250k or 500k pot tonally back then. I completely agree that he probably just picked up whatever was there. Later he certainly knew but I still think he would have tried anything and let his ears decide. I think he was more about what his ears liked and less about what the rules were about certain things. Thank god because we wouldn’t have half of what we have if he didn’t ignore the rules. Long live the king!❤️
Knowing the difference between a 250k and 500k pot isn't a rule. You still let your ears be the judge you just know the 'why' behind it. Why not use a 1k? How about a 1M pot? How about a 5M??
The guitar pick was the last thing to complete the brown sound for me. The medium Fender nitro cellulose gives that pop like sound in the Little Dreamer intro/riff. I was using nylon 60mL for so long and shorted myself. I’m adjusting now but it makes such a difference! It makes sense since the brown sound is a percussive sound and those picks are percussive.
The 250k pot helped tame the highs of the JB pickup and Floyd tremolo. I did this to my original Kramer’s back in the day. I think the original Jackson Soloist had a 250k, I seem to remember this in a few that I worked on, again in the early 80’s.
@@GCKelloch Are you talking about the tone, and volume controls combined? I usually play a Les Paul 50's wired with 500k pots. The Ibanez is modern wired with everything sharing the same volume, and tone controls 250K. I rarely play with two pickups.
great show guys. Caught the tail end last night. Love the chat and all the minutiae. Ed was so great. No one really sounded like him which is always the mark of a great player and as was said in the convo...Van Halen songs were great and unique as well!
Holy Cow what a great show! Jim, I should have listened to this interview before writing and asking questions...sorry man, nothing like repeating yourself over and over. Fantastic interview with huge amounts of information. Thank you so much for doing this. Awesome all the way around!
49:29 they discuss EVH tunings, the standard they discuss is: (E0)(A0)(D-1)(G-3)(B-9)(E-9) with a few variations for different overall tunings (drop D) and specific songs.
Another great show!! So glad you mentioned Jake E Lee because his tone and playing have only gotten better over the years!! Happy Holidays and stay safe!!
Been experimenting with 6CA7's lately, Marc. After several Tone Talks on the VH sound, I am glad I made the leap to using a 1968 JMP SL type amp. It captures the roar that ANY preamp cascaded design does. I quickly go back to that whenever I tried to give my modern amps a second chance. If one is unhappy with the 'feel' and sound of this setup, it comes down to the Edward sound was not what one was chasing. Several classic sounds were made with a blasting Plexi, so I get it that younger players' taste is elsewhere, respectfully speaking. Thanks Marc! We share that passion for 'that' Edward sound.
Best sleeper pick up for the old van halen' tone is the Duncan Custom-59 hybrid! SH-16. If you Cannot get the old Van Halen tone with that pick up It's your amp!
Extremely loved this episode. The tube talk and the pickup talk was GREAT. I’ll be watching this a few times. I don’t recall Dave ever being asked about the Russian mini tubes that Thomas Blug uses. I would like to know his thoughts. The pickups and pot discussion really sparked my interest.
Interesting thing I learned from a guy who went backstage in 2015. Ed was still using an old plexi with a mic to feed the onstage amps. At least at that concert.
250k pot with a PAF style pup does a special thing in a superstrat. I have a 9k Dimarzio PAF in a Franky style build with 250k pot and it's bang on early EVH. I want to try it with a Duncan 59 next, which has always been an underrated pickup.
I was watching this live but, had to leave around 10:40 to go to work. I'm responding to some of the talk in the chat about the Duncan Custom variants. The Custom, the Custom, Custom Custom, and Custom 5 are all the same wind with different magnets. The Custom(SH/TB-5) has a ceramic mag , the Custom Custom(SH/TB-11) has a A2 mag and, the Custom 5(SH/TB-14) has a A5 mag. The Custom(ceramic) was the pickup that Seymour Duncan referred to as the Van Halen sound in Seymour's early ads(late 70's early 80's). The Custom Custom came out some time in 80's and the Custom 5 came out in the late 90's or early 2000's.
Brian Wampler's video was a good demonstration of EQ matching in Logic Pro, and it's not a massive step to jump from EQ matching to generating an IR file that can be used by modelers like the HX Stomp. IR files are massively, massively underused and underrated. People use them to fake speaker cabs, but you can also do a semi-decent job of making an electric sound like an acoustic, and other things massively useful to live players.
Great vid and Jim’s great! Believe it or not I got real close to Ed’s sound with an ash Strat with a DSD into a TS into a Jubilee 2555 with Siemen’s and a Space Echo in the loop. Master cranked and gain used as Master.
@@nickh1933 Actually Allan himself never used that pickup, Seymour made a Allan Holdsworth pickup but it was just for the fans and Seymour chose the hot wind because that's what people assumed Allan used. Allan actually hated overwound pickups! He did use a pickup that was basically 59 with double row screws in his Charvel.
Love every second of this show! I believe in the last year there was a discovery on the 5150 body as being northern ash. To my ears it never really sounded poplar or bass.
Super not the target audience for this particular episode, but I can always come away with some useful information. Happy birthday to Dave, and merry Christmas everyone. Looking forward to Tone Talk 2022!
For live,you'll use the Eb with the 3 cent to 9 cent tweak,.....or the Standard E with the same tweaks. The standard tuning was when they started using the keyboard a lot more,because that only made sense.
Eddies entire thing was 'attitude' ... his percussive RH style embodies that. Van Halen was about macho party lifestyle swagger. Ed wrote toward the soundtrack for that era.
I don’t know if you guys ever read these comments after the chat is over but I wanted to tell you how much I appreciate these podcasts and the information contained in them. Your guest this week was a very knowledgeable guy who has obviously studied EVH’s tone in-depth for a long time. He appreciates the genius of what Ed did and that is nice to hear. Dave’s comments as always have experience and facts to back up what he says because he knew Eddie and helped him with his tone on many occasions. I cried the day Ed died, such a blow to all of us who grew up listening to his music. One thing I believe that has been mentioned on this show before but is still under-appreciated is the way Eddie’s guitar playing had a lot of swing and groove to it. He was a master at this and his rhythm playing was so astute and practically dead-on perfect. No one played like him before or since. To me, he is still the king. No one will take his seat on that throne. “Genius” doesn’t even begin to say how smart he was, genuine, and one-of-a-kind.
Thank you! We read the comments! Really appreciate your post and it’s things like this that keep us going and doing the show. We really enjoy interacting with everyone and geeking out on it! Happy holidays!
I do the b string -14 cents and that works perfect for everything but I’m going to try that tuning Jim said. That was because Eddie had a heavy hand on there. It never fails though when I put the b at minus 14 cents it sounds great. Try something simple like Runnin’ with the Devil and that helps me know.
That would make sense that the slug and screw coils on his pickups were offset, like a true PAF would be. That would give additional harmonic content that a standard high output pickup of that time wouldn't have.
Great show . Thanks Yes I think I know what mids he meant and those were the mid control on some Marshall’s can be a bit much and he must have tried a tube screamer at some point and that frequency can sound bad on a Marshall , especially the ones Ed was going for
Wondering why Dave doesn't like Mercury Transformers 🤔. Wish you all would dug lil deeper on that subject. Gr8 stuff, very educational, Jim's tone fair warning video ungodly. How much closer can you get? However, don't stop. Outstanding.....
The best studio recorded tone BEFORE EVH, was Jimi Hendrix, the Stereo Studio recording of Red House on "Smash Hits", which of course is an early Marshall as well. As a 15yr old guitarist, that was the defacto tone before I got into Van Halen after High School graduation in 93. Yeah, I heard VH growing up, but I never seriously licensed to the early albums as a guitarist until that point. I remember finally getting VH1 on cd, and the first listen through (and forever), Im The One was the standout guitar "hero" track playing wise and tone, period. I love his tone on "Little Dreamer" as well which no one ever mentions, which to me always sounded like a preview of his "1984" tone. I thought Ice Cream Man was like listening to Red House on steroids, it just had that vibe to i, loved it. I had a cheap music store Series10 guitar that I got when I was 14, and I tinkered with swapping out the pickup with anything that came my way, from people just giving me random guitar parts. Anyways, when I was 18 or 19 I bought a Vintage DiMarzio super distortion that was in a jar with various unlabeled pickups for like $20, and I remember bring my radio shack meter with me to test the resistance. The one I picked out measured 13.9k. I had just bought a vintage scholz rockman (wish I still had it), which I Y adapter'd into a 60s solid state wood cabinet stereo with built in turntable. The speakers werent anything special but they where solid closed backs as, thing entire thing was heavy. And this is what I played at home for a number of years until I bought a reissue 410 bassman in 98(which i sold to buy an engagement ring). And that guitar, through the rockman, through this old console stereo sounded fantastic and I could get that big VH sound no problem. Anyways, I still have the guitar with the SD in it, and when I play it through my Fender Mustang G100, it sounds huge compared to my strat. Even though my strat has yosemite single coils which sound amazing. Fun stuff.
It's funny that there is sooo much discussion about this now that Ed is gone. Didn't anyone try to sit down with Ed years ago and have these discussions?
Of course these questions have been asked of EVH before and he didn’t remember or didn’t know. And the 250k pot is speculation that nobody thought to ask him then.
@@tone-talk I remember reading some questions with respect to a few things but never an in-depth interview on technical specifics. But I'm not surprised at all that he wouldn't remember since he tinkered ALL the time through the decades. thanks.
I like alder and poplar. I like southern ash next. I haven't ever touched northern ash except for a baseball bat. I like both mahogany and basswood/linden pretty well but they are different. I also haven't played a maple body except for hollow or semihollow or.pine either.
There are dozens of virtuoso guitar players streaming today from around the world.I think EVH will be the last innovator guitar hero.Players today don’t need a record contract to reach the world anymore just the talent and ability to home record and stream it.
Makes me want to try a 250k volume pot with my JB/Les Paul. Currently, I have a 500k vol/500k tone. Would you have to swap the 500k tone for a 250 as well??
I knew someone who was visiting EVH's house one time, and said the living room was full of disassembled guitars and guitar parts spread all over the floor. It was hard to walk through without stepping on something. So were pot values being kept track of, or whatever was lying around being used?
That's an interesting story. It's hard to say what level of tech knowledge he had acquired at that time. That may have been during his experimental stage.
From what research I’ve done it seems that very high-end (or high performance) amplifiers are extremely sensitive to the relationship between the output transformer and the speakers. I can’t even begin to claim that I understand how that relationship affects the entirety of the amp though.
Great great tone insights episode. I really hope they make a movie based on Eddie's talented career. A movie focus on his musical skills. Similar or even more music oriented like the Fredie Mercury recent movie. One focused on his talent and influence on musicians. If they do it, he wont be easily forgotten.
ilthe difference between potted vs unpotted pickups is huge..if you want/need to replicate a good paf, youll never get it w potted p/ups. they are a lot airier sounding & lots more dynamic & touch responsive.
I’m so confused. If Eddie hated mids like they say he’s quoted as saying. Then why on earth are his 5150 amps literally cranked mids. You can’t even scoop them out with the mid knob.
You gents deserve more than a beer. And to a great year gentleman! Cheers. The volume pot sounds right. Just like changing the volume pot on your guitar. Dog hearing and a willingness to be your own man... Everybody these days are busy being cookie cutter followers. The juice is worth the squeeze
"Scott Brockway If the plate resistors drift up you get more gain, sometimes drastically more." Resistors don't typically drift....up. They drift DOWN!
great show guys. anyone what is the best amp for all styles i play a jvm that is the best i found i was a fender guy most of my life never tried a dave amp
I think...... Super D for first album. And we know the Shaffer Vega Wireless is in play VHII onward. There's the SD59 or PAF boosted. The hair and gain from a low output pickup. Because the 59 has everything but the drive factor until you get here. Just my theory. JB still doesn't hold water for me. It just doesn't. I actually never like that pickup. I tipped off Rockstar Mark Abrahamian on the Super D. At first he was like no way. I have the emails before the Rockstar Mod 5 happened between me and him. The 59 also has it just lacking drive..... Output gain knob on the Schaffer Vega and 250k pot. Problem solved💁
When you are talking about the tuning for Unchained,...the whole mastered song might be a little slower and giving the lower tuning by approx 30 cents. As a guitar player,I can tell you that you aren't going to want to use a whole bunch of tunings that are different by 30 or 50 cents. It's likely just mastering tricks to combat ear fatigue for the listener,.....as that 30 cent difference will hit the ear different than the song 2 tracks prior that was "right on the button" of Eb..............but for tracking,and overall "ease of use" you're going to want to stick with a stock tuning,...like Edward's 3 cent to 9 cent tweaked Eb tuning.Then when he changed to using an E standard tuning,that minor 3 cent to 9 cent tweak translates well......and then you just use the same mastering tricks to do anything more drastic. 30 cents worth of slowing down isn't going to be really noticeable on the tempo of the track in mastering,or whatever you want to do. Just my opinion as a guitar player that has enough to remember without having to remember 30 cent shifts in tuning from song to song.
I have a Seymour Duncan EVH (Evenly Voiced Harmonics 😉) 8.8 to 9K Alnico II 22 guass direct mounted in an old 80's strat, no volume pot, super brown. Not sure of the strat body wood but it's a light guitar and the wood is soft . Anyone have experience with this pup ?
Sounds like swamp ash. It can be very light, and dents easy. Alder is more consistently medium weight. Ash has a course grain that you may be able to make out through the finish.
@@TheBman13298 Ash is light colored with a medium brown coarse grain. Yours could be basswood. I'm not that well versed in that era, and country of origin Strat's. The Japanese guitars I have owned from the 80's have all been very well constructed. If you could find some of the old marketing literature it would tell you. Otherwise, search forums on the subject.
Your pickup is the 335 PAF that Seymour rewound for Ed back in the 70’s. It is the BEST pickup by far you will find for old VH. I have tried them all. By the way this is straight from Seymours mouth and M.J. In the custom shop will back this up. The alnico 2 pickups just drip with tone you will never get from an alnico 5 or ceramic magnet.
@@chrisjones8977 Thanks for the info. That is awesome. I totally agree, it is the brownest pup for that early tone...just lower the b string a bit and wow. All my other pups don't come close...JB, Wolfgang (Mexican, have not tries the USA ver) , SD custom full shred...
Has anyone checked Ed's tuning on the albums after he retired Frankie and used only the Ernie Ball guitars? I highly suspect he didn't use the oddball tuning system described in this video because the intonation on the EB guitars were far superior. All of his trashy DLR era guitars had terrible intonation which is why he did the compensated tuning so much
@@tone-talk True, And if you think about it, the guitar is an imperfect instrument. Those B string notes on a "properly" set up and tuned guitar are NOT in tune to begin with, except open and the 12th fret. Just today I checked with my tuner, those B string notes on say Dance The Night Away are actually correct in relation to the other strings when i altered its tuning. Runnin',, same thing. I know he didn't use a tuner in the studio, but still, he made it be in tune where he needed it to be in tune. My best friend growing up and playing in bands most of my life, would tune to certain chord shapes and didn't play different shapes of the same chords. I picked his guitar up one day, and DAM! It sounded like shit, but when he played it it sounded great.
Love this…and hate to correct Friedman!!! but it’s off “topic” so fuck it…but….Lynch’s tone was NEVER better than on Back For The Attack….am I wrong? :)
