Ep. 201: IFR Low Enroute Charts Explained | Basics Part 1 

How did it go

SAME

Same

@@slimgoodman Who fails from checkrides? :D

@@TarHelcaraxe many people don’t pass on the first time…nothing wrong with that specially on the instrument check ride where messing up in real life could put you in a life or death situation

Thanks! Glad it helped! Check out the website for some other helpful videos too! www.fly8ma.com

Good luck to you!!

Good luck!

Good luck to you with your ifr training!! Check out the site and the rest of the channel for more helpful vids

Thanks Ryan, good luck to you with instrument!

Always here to help!

Glad I could help!

Best of luck!

Sure thing, Vonny!

Glad it helps! Good luck with training!

Thanks Johnny, I appreciate it!!

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Now it is 6-axis gyro with GPS for kids and none would know what to do with Diesel Oil Beacons now ▬ NDB were over-the-horizon? Let say we are to ferry a P-38 to Okinawa and alight on the runway my father built working for CB-s ••• I have to imagine carrier-ships for en-route with me explaining ACARS to one of them ~ that was before when CDC-7700 was seven-bit and I can only guess that ferry pilot would not have LORAN

My instructor has me navigating using both VOR with CDI instruments and GPS.

I'm glad it helped a bit!

Not a problem! glad to hear you enjoyed the content!

Sure thing! Fly Safe!

Thanks Ash! Check out our other videos on www.fly8ma.com !!!

@@fly8ma.comflighttraining199 Will do!!

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Glad it helps! Fly Safe!

Much appreciated!

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Glad it helps! Fly Safe!

Thank!! Feel free to share it around with your flying friends!

S G qq

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Well, how did it go?

How'd it go?

​@@masterchiefgtxable I passed, and I'm an Inst6rument instructor now in Atlanta :)

@@aayushpanda9 I passed, and I'm an Inst6rument instructor now in Atlanta :)

Yes! here's the link: fly8ma.com

The dashed ones?

Blackhawkpilot14 Actually, you can use an OROCA altitude on a Low IFR chart as a reference. You have to file for the odd/even altitude equal to or above the quadrant altitude, but ATC will likely assign you to an appropriate altitude. You are limited to an altitude below 18,000'. The course can be direct from your departure airport to an IAF for the approach to your destination. The equipment would need to be an IFR certified GPS or RNAV unit. See Rod Machado's Instrument Pilot's Handbook, page 16-9, Flying Direct Routes, for the explanation.

You are specifically prohibited to use the OROCA for direct route flight planning by the FAA. See the Instrument Procedures Handbook FAA-H-8083-16A page 2-27 "OROCAs depicted on en route charts do not provide the pilot with an acceptable altitude for terrain and obstruction clearance for the purposes of off-route, random RNAV direct flights in either controlled or uncontrolled airspace." The Semi-Circular rule of FAR Part 91.179 specifically states that mandatory odd or even directional altitudes for IFR flight applies to Uncontrolled airspace. That does not mean that ATC will only use those altitudes, remember that you can file for any altitude you want it is up to ATC to clear you for it.

Blackhawkpilot14 I guess you didn't read my note correctly. The book does not say it is prohibited! Read past the sentence you quoted. It says in the following paragraphs that ATC can except an altitude below the OROCA, MEA...you are responsible for your own obstacle clearance, but that isn't real smart, is it? If you read my note, you will see that I said it can be used as a reference, and fly the next higher IFR altitude depending on the course flown. How do you fly a direct route between waypoint fixes? Carefully! If you fly for a commercial operator, your operation rules most likely say 'not authorized'. The IPH does not specifically say it is prohibited. Maybe obstacles grow in the dark or clouds, I can't say for sure. Maybe the FAA knows that the OROCA's are really 1000' and 2000' above all obstacles, but they are covering their ass. In the non-mountainous areas, it is a good idea to check the NOTAMS for that most recent new tower along your route of flight. I've never seen a 2000' tower depicted on top of a 10,000'+ mountain in the USA West, but I'll check when I fly over the Cascades IFR directly above that mountain. We usually avoid flying in a direct route over the volcanos, but the airlines fly well below those higher OROCA's because they are on the Victor routes, or approved Terminal arrivals. It really isn't rocket science!

"OROCAs are intended primarily as a pilot tool for emergencies and SA." Proper flight planning for direct route flights I agree are not rocket science but are perfectly safe if the aviator is not lazy in the planning phase. I have logged over 5,000 as a military aviator and many of these were IFR between fixes. I fail to see how the phrase "do not provide the pilot with an acceptable altitude for terrain and obstruction clearance" does not mean that you cannot use this number to plan. Using a current VFR sectional means also updated using NOTAMS and the Chart Bulletins section of the Chart Supplement you can safely select an acceptable altitude well below many OROCAs. It is simple to find your highest obstacle round the altitude either up or down to the nearest hundred foot increment, 49 feet or less down 50 feet or more up, then add your 1000 or 2000 feet according to FAR Part 95. Any pilot should know and are warned by the FAA that OROCAs are NOT flight checked and the information that they were established with may not be as yet verified.

Blackhawkpilot14 Yes, I agree with your first sentence. We had to use OROCA's for emergency descent protocols when I did my High Altitude endorsement at American last fall in the 737-800. We had to take an emergency course off-route to avoid other airway traffic should we lose comm, and then make sure we reached a safe altitude above terrain. That was the emergency procedure practiced from FL350. What is not mentioned is what is a minimum direct altitude when there IS an OROCA? The problem is that structures have penetrated the 1000' OROCA altitude in the past without immediate notification of the FAA. It seems that permits are required well in advance of construction at this point and NOTAMS list these; with electronic charts and obstacle clearance terrain software, a more reasonable safety SA is possible. Since in the West all OROCA's on charts are 2000'+, making a mistake off a sectional is too risky. A couple from Minnesota did just that near south side of Mt Baker and hit the Twin Sisters in the summer of 2015, on the same day another pilot did the same on the north side over the North Cascades trying to duck under clouds or the overcast. Neither did their homework and were several thousand feet below the OROCA which is 13000'. Their appropriate VFR altitude was 14,500', and IRF minimum would be 14,000' or 3200' above the highest obstacle. Both are oxygen required altitudes, but these pilots got into partial or limited visibility in scattered or broken clouds, and did not do a 180. The guy on the south was at about or below 7100' when he hit, and the other impacted at around 87-8900'. Both altitude and navigation were issues, had they been at least at the OROCA, they would have survived...SA! Fortunately, the grand daughter of the north side plane walked out. The most serious CFIT accident here was years ago, prior to GPS, when Seattle approach forgot about the RC135 and left them vectored into the Olympic Mountains in IMC. My cousin's husband was on the TWA flight into Dulles in 1974, when ATC goofed and cleared their descent. That is where strict step-down altitudes on approaches and OROCA's became policy due to that accident.

Jon Willson That‘s the minimum GPS reception altitude.

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