Ep. 235 | Terminal Ballistics on Game with Hornady® 

Jayden is a treasure trove of knowledge, and much like Ryan, explains complex details in a way that doesn't confuse laymen. Great podcast.

Absolutely one of the best Vortex videos made. When Ryan is quiet and all ears, you know whoever is talking possess an encyclopedia of knowledge in regards to bullets and ballistics. I could listen for another hour. Great job guys!

Incredible episode. Jayden is an incredible wealth of knowledge.

Hornady/Vortex pods are what we need more of

Mark asks thoughtful excellent questions. Thank you Mark.

Spot on gentlemen, and thanks to Hornady for their great products.

This must be one of the top 5 podcasts done by Vortex Nation! Great content, so interesting!

The eldx come apart bad up close. Shot 3 deer wtail, at 30,55,75 yards. I did kill the deer every time but no exit wound at all just blew apart after 6inches. And it was a slow gasping kill. I wasn't impressed. Def need a bonded option . Cx don't shoot good outa my gun. I now use federal terminal accent. Those things are hammers. Best I've seen ever!

Love the podcast! Really cool to see both companies working together to make an info-packed and entertaining podcast. I still would love to see a podcast about big-bore rifles and cartridges sometime!

This is one of the best discussions I have seen in a long time, thanks Mark, Ryan and Jayden.

My grandpa said “get as close as you can- sonny, then get 5 yards closer.”

Excellent discussion that covers the interaction between physics and physiology. Hats off to Mark and Ryan for the questions.

Everything was so well explained in this video. Thanks for the efforts made to simplify things down, much appreciated. I feel like I learned a lot from this video. Love the podcast. Sam

Definitely a top three favorite podcast you have done.

Bullet selection is the number one mistake hunters make. Then blame the caliber for poor performance

This was simply the most amazing and informative video on ballistics I’ve ever seen. Can’t wait for part 2, 3 or more! Loved how Ryan was soaking it all in.

Funny how The hornady says that you want 2 to 3 feet of penetration and don't want jacket core separation, but they still produce SST and ELD-X which shatter at close range

One of the best, and informative videos on the internet! Thanks so much, Jayden!!!

Another one of these is needed! Thanks for all of these podcasts

Absolutely epic, thank you guys for this. I could watch a 10 hour version quite happily! 👊🏻

This dude is a treasure trove of knowledge. These points should be considered required knowledge for anyone planning to hunt big game (or talk about it on the internet).

Just fantastic information. An absolute masters class.

You guys have become one of the most underrated channels. You are going to explode once people catch on. Keep bringing this top tier information. Great stuff

IMO an Excellent Podcast .. So many things were covered in terms of BallisticsPerformance and it was gr8 to get confirmation of what to use when and where and reconfirm uses for the different projectiles ..From this Podcast it helps to better identify Key facts that Hunters need to be aware of when chosing their desired Bullet. Projectile Placement is the precursor to Projectile Performance on Target. Velocity Determines Perforamnce up to the Maximum Distance that the Bullet is designed to Kiil at. ie Anything below that Number is where the projectile wont Mushroom/Open up and do it's Job properly in the Hunting arena. The more i read and watch these types of information sharing today as Hunters we need to realise we must as hunters and shooters understand how and what the projectile Will do--- out to your max hunting range whatever that maybe..it doesnt matter if it 100y or 500y Still each one has optimal range it will perform at some(Projectiles) more thans others. Their are a myriad of options today and it on us to get it right Thanks again i feel better informaed to make good call on my Ammo

I literally watched this five times, super informative podcast! So valuable, please set up another with him

Great video guys. Nice to hear you emphasizing choosing the right bullet for the job in hand.

Amazing, NO NOTES! This is all in his head! Wow

Incredibly interesting. Thank you!

Really great to hear from this guest speaker.

I only hunt woods, so I'm not much of a practiced long-range shooter, but I can say that I love the Interlocks and V-Maxes in my rifles and the XTPs in my handguns. All of those have given me good accuracy and consistency in my handloads. The 140 .277" Interlock is the only one of those I've taken game with, and the buck trotted 15 yards on a double-lung shot before laying down to expire -- great performance.

Best podcast you guys have ever done !

Great discussion…. Now I’m more aware of how little I know.., thanks for that!

Love it. More deep dive vids like this!

Best podcast so far!!!

Great episode!!! SO much knowledge. When is Hornady coming out with the 6.5 Grendel ELD-X???

Learned a lot! Thanks !!

Wow! I have learned so much about the CX in this podcast--awesome information from Jayden and it's characteristics! Thank you for doing this!!! 😀

What a great podcast!

One of the most informative and well presented videos I've seen on ballistics so far, what an interesting person, as someone who works as an engineer in another field this is fascinating, so many parallels drawn from my perspective.. I'd love to have heard more about how varmint bullets vary from the big game constructed bullets and how they work in detail as that's more my thing, especially the 17HMR which is a Hornady developed cartridge.. Maybe another time?

Loved the way you started this podcast. How do animals die (in hunting scenarios)

Excellent video, do another down the rabbit holes you touched on.

Love Vortex podcasts, love Hornady podcasts. Match made in heaven.

A++ Hornady and Vortex, two or the leaders in firearms technology providing a erudite discussion of pushing the boundarys and limits of post-modern firearms techn as we know it. More Please!

I primarily shoot factory Hornady and Barnes, I am not impressed entirety with the ELDX at closer ranges. But at medium to extended ranges the bullet has shined for me. For all ranges and game the Barnes TTSX has been the go to

Excellent Podcast. Loved every second. Thanks Hornady and Jayden for the great knowledge and information. I would love to see Jayden return. Thanks Vortex, Mark and Ryan, another great show.

We live in a great time for firearm technology including ammo. I know the first polymer tipped bullets I bought were very inconsistent but now they have them dialed.

Great information, very informative!

Interesting content, good advice on selecting bullet type depending on applications. Here as much as I test and research different bullets, calibers, etc.... the locations we hunt the good old fashioned plain base hard cast 405g bullet has worked for decades on my end, and a century plus some on the large scale. We see some gravitate back to these basic old designs in those that have the same application, but good to see advances in other applications that we as humans 100 years ago never really did on a regular basis.

I think this is a video every hunter should watch. Thanks. One question: where can I find the design velocity range of specefic bullets published?

Nice episode! I wish they would have touched on the ammo case design and the newer brass/steel base case, the steel base and stainless cases etc. that the military has now adopted. Explaining the huge advantage in higher case pressures and reloadablity. The bullet always gets all the glory tho :)

Awesome discussion!

I love Hornady 150grain spire points for my old 30-06.i loaded a ton of them back in the 1970s,with my dad.i still hunt with them.i have several ammo cans full .they are excellent for hunting deer and black bear .I trust Hornady bullets.

I’ve used hornady bullets on coyotes, wood bison, grizzly bear, black bear ,caribou and Yukon moose. I’ve always had great results with hornady bullets.

Fantastic!

One of your best.

8mm mauser train still chuggin

Thank you 😊

Have you ever noticed how different bones break in unique ways. Thats why I never shoot on the shoulder or the front leg. All those leg bones break like porcelain, pieces shooting all through the good meat. Whereas ribs kind of break like wood or branches, it kind of just splinters and cracks out of the way of the bullet. Theres also less meat around the ribs to waste.

Last year, predeer season, I reloaded some Hornady 140gr Monoflex Bullets. They were in a .308 Win at about 2650 fps MV. The first hunt out my grandson shot a nice 3x3 whitetail buck. The shot was taken at about 90yds and hit the deer high on the shoulder. The deer dropped on the spot. After that, every one switched guns so they could use that .308 for the continuing deer hunt. Over the one month Alberta season the results were 6 Bullets for 5 Bucks. One bullet was a complete miss. The range varied from 90yds to 130 yds. Two of the bullets were recovered with a retained weight of +90% . I highly recommend this bullet caliber combination. Thank you Hornady!

I know you are talking to Hornady, and I use the 308 Interlock bullets, never had a deer walk away form it, but the Nosler Partition and Accubond are great killers, close or far.

I think you should make this one a series if possible. I feel that internal balistics doesn't get talked about enough and should be a much bigger factor especially when choosing a rifle for hunting. After some unexpected bullet failure I am switching to premium bullets for deer as well as elk. Hornady is the only brand I have good availability for and what I have seen of the gilding metal monolithic bullets requires higher speeds for them to open well. Monolithic bullets are becoming a popular premium option but I think many don't think about the fact that if they had favored heavy bullets for penetration in the past they still probably want to step up lighter both do to the increased length but also needing that higher velocity at impact. Since they are going to penetrate better anyway higher speed will make for cleaner kills. For those who are realistic about their range many larger bores are actually going to make for the best option since do to the way internal balistics work they are going to give the highest velocity with the least amount of powder volume and shortest barrel length. Many magnums actually are loosing much of their advantage with short hunting length barrels anyway. The weight of the powder column along the jet affect of smaller bores is going to give them higher recoil to actual muzzle energy compared to the same energy produced by a larger bore and smaller case. What seems important is to keep the highest energy over the expected range and to pick a rifle that fits that in the weight and recoil a hunter finds best. This new long distance shooting trend has helped to make very light bullets be the popular thing but I think for many they struggle to see the whole picture and often pick a round based off of fewer factors than they should. It would be great to see more information get out there especially now when people are starting to realize that there is more to it than just how fast a bullet leaves the muzzle. With the right factory support something like the . 350 Rem mag using copper bullets in the lighter weights would have made this a fantastic elk rifle out to 300 yards but at the time it wasn't really ballanced enough with the factory ammo available. I think it would be great to get this information more mainstream since the average hunter doesn't sort through white papers and look for expansion studies at specific ranges although RU-vid has gone a long way to improve this.

The old spire point 129 in 264 win mag and 139 in 7mm Rem mag,I have seen lots of white tail and mule deer taken cross canyon shooting at 400 to 600 yards back in the 70s and 80s. Bullets recovered were usually on the off side hide perfectly expanded. On the other hand I have shot deer at close range and had three exit holes nasty destruction inside!

Liked it need more on game/ yardage/ bullet selection and caliber

Just recently rewatched this and another question I would have asked on the end would have been something to do with metallurgy. Great episode and all the respect. I think the metallurgy of modern (and legacy) projectiles could be an entire episode on its own.

Great guest

Great Video

Great video. Wondering what supersonic 300blk bullet would be needed for whitetail? I have used 135gr vmax out of a 10.3 inch with good effect on two deer, but shots are maximum of 75 yards. Now worried that I shouldn't be using it. 😕

I had to watch this episode like 3 times there's so much information to distill from the brains of this man.

Great conversation guys

Love the CX

I hope the next evolution in bullet design has to be something to replace a lead core in a bullet. I know that monolithic bullets have become pretty good specially in very high velocity loads, but in many calibers, they can't replace the old cup and core bullet. They are just too long for the weight. If they could design a new material for bullet cores that would be the same hardness (or softness) as lead but without the toxicity in could become a game changer for many hunters. To me that would be a big game changer. It would have the same effective maximum range for many existing cartridges and would be applicable to many more calibers.

Good one

keep gravitating back to the SST's I can't beat them.

My son just took his first whitetail with a 6.5 120CX loaded to about 2950fps 220 yards. This combination is lightning on deer. The damage was contianed completely in the chest cavity without excessive "collateral damage".

Awesome video, super informative. The Hornady ballistician truly is a wealth of knowledge. The ELD bullets are amazing ballistically but I do wish hornady would at least acknowledge the large amounts of ELD-X exploding at closer range/high velocity...

That was a great video! Thanks ONE QUESTION I specifically would have liked to have heard is at 1800 and 1600 fps what is the actual average expansion size or amount (%) in 10% ballistic gel? What does Hornady consider sufficient expansion, so to actually call it “expansion.” Is that expansion consistency the same across calibers and or weight? Ok, that was two questions. Nonetheless, great video.

22mag is a great round for small stuff. Dam near dead flat from muzzle to 100yards. My fav bird n squirrel gun as a kid

Interesting point about the accuracy of bonded bullets. I'd never heard that and thought the piss poor accuracy I got with bonded bullets in my .243 was just a quirk of my individual rifle.

Just heard that BTHP bullets don't expand; is that also true for shorter ranges & higher velocities, say 100 yards or less? If so, seems like terminal performance would be about the same as FMJ? I'm using 6.5 Grendel, 123 gr. Thx.

to add to his quote near the end "the technology advancements mean we constantly have to reevaluate what's possible" I'm curious to see if direct metal laser sintering (metal 3d printing) can be used in bullet design similarly to how it's used in suppressors and similar things where you can get internal geometries that were previously impossible with normal manufacturing processes and techniques. I think it's still going to be a long time before it's viable on a large scale, but imagine if you could have a CX bullet strategically "weakened" internally in a manner that would allow it to still hold together at higher velocities, but be capable of significant and reliable expansion at lower velocities.

I have a 22mag slung as i listen to this phone in back pocket walking my fence....thanks for the podcast

I hear if you just get a Nosler Accubond or Accubond LR all your issues just go away… and its fact checked true

That upside down rifle sling got me

The flat base bullets are really accurate with the 6mm ppc bench guns

I’m a Midwest straight wall hunter. I’m shooting .350 legend 180 grain power point. I’ve read conflicting opinions if this should be a 150 max vs 200 max round. Academic as most shots are sub 100 yards. Love the accuracy of these rounds

How do you find out the low velocity window where you beging to not get expansion? Is it the lowest velocity on the box?

The odd bullet out in terms of velocity required would be Barnes "Varmint Grenade". This copper-tin powder filled; super thin jacket will literally detonate even at sub-sonic velocities.

Sub-X would have been nice to hear about. Is there a way you guys can hit that one up?

Loads of great information here. One point I disagree with was the concept that a hollow point will work like an ice pick going right through. I've actually shot a mule deer with a hornady hollow point because I ran into a situation where I brought the wrong ammo box by accident. So I took what I had and made the shot. The hole going in was the size of the diameter of a pencil. The exit hole was the size of one and a half of my hands fully open with all fingers completely expanded, and it was not clean. In between the entrance and exit holes, all tissue was shredded in an expansive manner the further the bullet went through. It was very evident that as the copper of the bullet tore and curled back it was both compressing tissue and cutting it to pieces. I really questioned if it was also tumbling through compressing & cutting as it went. It didn't simply tear through slightly bigger than the bullet in a similar manner to the shape of an icecicle (long & narrow). As soon as halfway through, there was little left of entire organs. The heart, which was only partly in the path, was completely fragmented. As we're most of the vitals. While there was obviously little energy transfer (punch) impact transfered to the animal, most vital organs were obliterated. There were jagged slice tear marks all over the place on all vital organs. Maybe the bullet broke up and became shrapnel, sending pieces everywhere to slice everything up and still all exit creating the large hole. Though we ran into no fragments in processing or eating the meat. Looking from the exit side, it looked like a shotgun blast hole. It was far from a long, narrow icepick wound.

I watched this a while ago and found more value watching it again. I have been watching with interest the data and performance of 7 mm PRC and have decided to get one. Both as a general hunting rifle and longer distances, if I so choose. So, I could hunt with the Hunter round and later get into LD shooting with the Match round. Primarily that means just switching ammo, put on a 20 MOA rail, zero at 200 and then go for it. although I could put on a 20 to start, zero at 200 and any shot less than that will be in the MPBR and I could dial past that. Either way, I think it is going to be good. Aside from the itch for a precision rifle, and from what I have seen of the SAAMI specs, any rifle build for this has to be precise because of the miniscule free bore, there are drawn hunts in the western part of my state for mule deer and the state says you should be able to make a shot at least 200 yards. I could be ready for that. And maybe, sometime in my life, now that I am getting old, going on at least one elk hunt would be cool. And why the long shots? I have not seen anyone be able to harvest a mule deer or an elk by putting salt on its tail. And on the high plains and desert in the western part of my state, there are not a lot of trees to hide behind. You have to stalk from downwind, set your spot, wait for the right profile, and go. I am reminded of what Ron Spomer said about energy. It used to be that you worried about getting all of the energy into an animal. But there are cases of entry and exit wounds and the animal expired, even though the bullet did not leave all the energy in the animal. And I have read a story of a hunter that shot a deer and it got away. The next season, he shot at another deer and got it. When he examined it, it was the same deer that survived being shot before. How many deer and elk are killed from archery? Plenty. While you have a 200 grain head, the velocity is slower. The damage ocurred which caused the death. That being said, the archery head enters because it is razor sharp. The bullet enters because it is going really fast. I have several .308 W rifles and I have been hunting with one. Cheap and easy to operate, I don't even load for it. I just by factory ammo. At 225 yards and less, the variances that may cause 1 MOA drift are still within the danger zone. But there is a balance between twist rate and speed. I watched the Hornady Podcast #057 about one hole and the reasons for bullet dispersion. Excellent information. Now, I am going to get the 7 mm PRC and I think that is going to get any game animal that I want in North America. I have seen people such as Ron Spomer and others get elk with a 7 mm Rem Mag. I have seen a guy get a moose with 6.5 Creedmoor (Hornady ELD-X 143 gr) out of his Howa 1500 and Burris Eliminator III at quite a distance, with one shot. At first, the moose kept walking like nothing happened and so Rob Arrington waited. Finally he dropped. Sometimes a moose does not realize it has been shot.

Right tool for the job also applies to the sciences applied to the ballistics. The moment the Bullet strikes the animal, you have to start using Biology, and not just Physics.

A controlled expansion, consistent bullet, that passes through and through is the most important for me. I need full pass through for a solid blood trail. I need it to perform consistently at 40 yards or 400 yards. The Interlock BTSP, or similar (Nosler Partition) provide that. I hunt whitetail and hogs in deep south Texas brush country, where it's vitally important to anchor the animal where it stands, but if it runs, leaves a well defined blood trail into the almost impenetrable thorn brush. I tried SST's and in every case they failed to thoroughly penetrate the animals and in each case they animal some substantial distance. This resulted in my only lost animal in 50 years of hunting. I've recently purchased Precision Hunter ELD-X's, but have yet to see the terminal performance on an animal in the field. My opinion is that BC is a moot point at reasonable hunting ranges inside 1/4 mile (440 yards).

My 6.5 RUGER American hates the 143 eldx, but loves the 130federal terminal ascent and 120cx! Hornady must use a 30 inch barrel to get the velocity they want😂

This is gonna be good

Hey Hornady. Modern high b.c. bullets are fine and all but please offer more of those legacy bullets again. I use your 30 cal 220gr roundnose bullet. Those are really good even to 300yd. Excellent. Also we need more 338 cal 250gr and please make bullets for the 348win available.

When will the SST bullets get the heat shield tip?!

The answer might be don’t take game at over 400 yards or if you don’t have that kind of willpower take magazines of types of bullets for different ranges and game. Or they seem to say that Hornaday’s ELDX works at any range on any game?

Ryan, We’re you loading 130gr TTSX? Be honest!

I must be behind the times on hunting bullets. A 154 grain interlock from my 7x57 Mauser (loaded to the capacity of the Remington 700 I fire it from) Has killed every deer I've shot it at from 0-400 yards.

I reloaded 162 SST IN MY 7 WSM AND SAW SOME FLAWS , NOW WE LOAD 162 ELDX , VERY Happy with results.