Ep. 313 | 7mm Rem Mag vs 7mm PRC - Is the King Dead? 

7 PRC fixes a non-existent problem. Won't be exchanging my 7 mag anytime soon.

The PRC family was developed for long range performance with heavier for caliber bullets. And they do that well. Myself being 64 years old, The longest game animal shot I have taken was a hair over 200yds. My 280 Remington in my 1985 Browning A-Bolt loves 160gr class bullets . I have taken from Red Stag down to small pigs and everything in between with one load. My 280 has worked exceptionally well over the years for me. I have no need for anything else.

The key statement in this video was “7 PRC is the turnkey solution”. In the hands of a proficient, experienced handloader, the 7RM will absolutely do everything that the PRC will and maybe a tiny bit more because of a slight advantage in case capacity. Same with 300WM vs 300PRC. The PRC cartridges are just a smart way of getting the performance of a handloader (almost) in a factory offering. They are very cool cartridges, especially for the non-handloader.

I think people would be interested in seeing you guys shoot some gel at a few different ranges. It would show why ethical hunting ranges are very important and how bullet expansion drops off when velocity drops.

I've shot the 7mmRem mag for 60 years. I've always been able to push the 175's well over 3000fps and 160 over 3100. My newest barrel is an 8 twist and throated long enough to seat them out. If indeed more, I have my 7mm Mashburn Super and a 8mm Mashbrn Super.

Hey there I have a 7mm-08 and I count it among the finest deer cartridges ever made. Super easy shooting, short action and it hits every bit as hard as my 270 does, my one and only issue with it is that for some reason that Browning A-Bolt HATES all factory ammo (3-5" groups no kidding) so I have to reload for it, but my 140gr Gamekings are hitting well under 1" every time. I own several deer rifles and the only one that really competes with the 7mm-08 for the perfect deer rifle is the 6.5x55 which is just perfection with modern loads.

These are my favorite when you get mark and Ryan talking about a subject and just having good time with it

I know multiple professional gunsmiths that all say they can get more out of the 7RM handloading than they can the 7PRC. The PRC is basically an off-the-shelf custom rifle for lack of a better explanation. Longer throat and high twist rate. If your 7RM can accommodate seating the bullet out a bit... you will get more out of it than the PRC. I actually love all of the PRC cartridges... but they aren't as fast as the advertisers say they are :)

I'd love to see a gel test at 600yds with these two cartridges. I have faith in Ryan and Mark to make the shot.

That PRC must be pretty great! Isn’t that the caliber Aram in Utah was using so didn’t need to range his 725 yard pot shot on the other hunters deer?

Have enjoyed Ryan’s words on so many podcasts, but as a older handloader , I’m surprised, and was surprised the first time I heard his thoughts on the 7mm rem mag. Especially hearing Ryan’s knowledge and respect of cartridge history. Oh well, guess we all have personal strong opinions. Keep up the great content fellas

That section where Mark asks about handloading, I have a slight caveat to add. Being that that throat is a lot longer (which is not a bad thing) in the PRC, you cannot optimize the lighter, more prevalent projectiles on the market in it. In the Rem Mag, you can handle all of the above. That's no bash. Now, I'm tempted to get a custom PRC reamer designed with a Rem Mag throat (because I handload) because it doesn't have a belt to mess around with.

If Ryan doesn’t like belted magnums how can he love Weatherby calibers🤔😳

The 7mm and 300 PRCs have along way to go to enjoy the popularity of the 7mm and 300 mags. While I haven't had either of the classic magnums for a while now. A ton of folks do. And if your 7mm mag or 300 mag is still putting in the work. Why would a guy reinvent the wheel? I think Ryan is right though. The advent of 7mm PRC Power point/Corelokt/Whitetail line of cup and core offerings, will certainly help more folks to jump on board. I just do not have a need for a long range monster where I hunt. So neither hold much interest for myself.

Unfortunately, I’m reading lots of guys aren’t getting the advertised velocity of the 7mm PRC. Additionally, hand-loaders are reporting clickers after a couple firings. I personally began experiencing this with my 6.5 PRC. The 7mm PRC is a move in the right direction, but it isn’t perfect. I really think your first choice in the .280 AI was wise, especially in a custom rifle. I used to shoot .280 AI years ago and I loved it.

Ryan reminds me of Jordan Peterson in more ways than one! Everybody has opinions and rectums and both tend to stink. And being an old timer who started shooting a seven millimeter Remington magnum….(I hate hearing sebumremmag)…forty five years ago in a beautiful Sako rifle and hand loaded nearly every round that I fired, I can testify that it truly is like Thor’s hammer. I’ve had many iterations of the the seven millimeter bore….7-08, 7x57, 280, 280 Ackley ad nauseam. And the Remington magnum is king of the hill. The newer PRC is probably a fine round but in reality, just a reinvention of the wheel. The firearm industry reminds me of detergent manufacturers with ‘new and improved’, ‘now with extra cleaning action’ etc. The truth is, they both want to generate new sales. So put it in a new box or case and tell the public, it’s the latest bestest etc. The seven millimeter express was the 280 in a new box but was the same bar of soap. The 7-08 is the ballistic twin of the ancient 7x57….pick your poison. The 6.5 creedless is the 6.5x55 in new duds. The 22creedless is a fast twist 22-250. Nothing wrong with the original offerings, nor any great advantage in the new. But from a marketing standpoint it generates new sales to a younger generation. You can sit back and tell grandpa he’s full of old man’s BS, but if you’ll invest your time and dollars, you’ll see what I’m saying is true. There’s no magic in the new PRC line. Not saying there’s anything wrong with them either. But if you own a seven millimeter Remington magnum and like it, don’t waste your money and trade it for a PRC.

Unfortunately, these guys are wrong about the tolerances. If they look at the SAAMI specifications, the freebore diameter of the Rem Mag is actually slightly tighter ( by .0001") than the PRC. If the rifles made had added slop, it was the fault of the barrel makers. The SAAMI spec of max tolerance, + .002" is the same for both. The 7mm Rem Mag was essentially a SAAMI-approved match chamber and well ahead of its time. Although Hornady said in a podcast that the tolerance really should be higher, they did not include that info on the drawing sent to SAAMI.

You guys are awesome! I thought you were going to be hornady fan boys but you proved me wrong. I have a custom 7 rem mag Tikka was considering changing to a prc. I was looking for support on the switch and you killed it!!! My rem mag has never failed me so I guess I stick with it. Thanks for saving me money.

Really ❤ listening to you guys and usually agree with 97.5% of what Ryan says but, Mark is right 7mm08 not a lead balloon!

Another Great episode guys! Keep these coming. Lead Balloon ... .307 winchester

I would like to see the 300 WBY with the 130 grain Barnes TSX shot into gel blocks

Not enough difference to create another cartridge. If you need a more powerful 7 mm with more recoil then get a .28 Nosler. The 7mm PRC is a great cartridge but not needed. Great video . I shoot 140 grain bullets out of my 7mm rem mag but I only hunt deer . I have never had a deer get away after being hit and my longest shot was 430ish . I guess it all depends what you'll be using your gun for if you are chasing larger animals I can see using a heavier bullet but for even large deer people have been killing them cleanly for almost a century with 130gr 270 Winchesters. Deer didn't all of a sudden get immune to light fast well placed bullets.

Own one of each and shoot whatever u want on any given day. As for me, sticking with the RemMag until ammo selection improves for the PRC and the price comes down

The problem with this entire podcast is the 7 PRC doesn't produce anywhere near its box velocities. I personally tested a 22" barrel 7mm PRC with the factory Precision Hunter 175 ELDX. The average velocity was 2805fps by LabRadar... Not 3000 fps like the box says. Let that sink in. I know 2 other people that tested with 24 and 26" barrels. They got 2840 and 2875fps respectively. I also personally own and loaded a 7 Rem Mag with a 28" barrel and throated long to accommodate a 175gr bullet at 3.590" COAL and hit 3180fps! When treated equally, the 7 PRC can't compete with a 7 Rem Mag, and it's not close. It's still a fine cartridge. But the hype of it and downplay of the 7 Rem mag is not only untrue but it's nauseating.

The opening statements pretty much sums it all up. Bought one in 83 I guess its been forty years whew where did all the time go. 🦌 deer season is in and ole Betsy is still hanging on the wall ready to go. I jump back and forth between 7x57 and 7 mm rem mag for whitetail. You guys help me decide today 7 mag it is.

The problem is their parameters. They should be weighted, putting higher value on different parameters based on the shooter needs. Average hunter, 7 rem mag all day, extreme long range 7 prc. They also put way too much importance on penetration and do not even care about frontal service area or hydro shock.

Attention: any animal unlucky enough to be hit with either is not going be around long enough to appreciate any minor difference in eithers performance. Dead is dead.

I have a 7 PRC. It shoots great out to 650 yards at local range. Ammo isn't hard to find. I've seen it in 3 big box retailers in the last 2 months and online. No knocks on 7 rem mag. Just figured I'd get the updated version. Figured it would be a great round for western game.

Ryan, something tells me the recoil difference between the two is due to less powder in the PRC. If I remember correctly you said there’s a 20gr difference between the two. But only a 10gr difference in bullet weight.

That debate on the Freebore is exactly the concept of handloading the rem mag. Use that headspace off the shoulder to stretch it out and use a longer, greater bc bullet and take advantage of the extra powder space.

My dad is a guide and outfitter for over 30 years. He's taken away more 7mmRM than any other cartridge. Not because it's not capable, but because it has a sharp recoil and people are SO confident in it because "it's a 7mmRM" like that suddenly makes them a good shot

Great podcast and video. But ugh, 7mm-08 is not a lead ballon !!! Keep the content coming.

I built my 7RSAUM a year too early. Had 7prc been out, that would have been the smart route.

18:10 😮 I agree, that's why I just bought a 7mm Rem Mag!

7rem mag is superior to the 300win mag. Favorite cartridge ever!

Not enough gain to make me want to change. I love my 7mm rem mag. It still has better expansion than the cx bullets tested ,with a 160 Sierra Game king boat tail. At 700 yards. But I do like the new copper bullets, they leave far less meat damage for some reason . I shot a big buck a couple years ago with a 6.5 Grendel loaded with 120 GMX copper and I hit it in the shoulder big bone broke it then a rib bone then another rib bone on the other side ,and the skin cought the bullet. And to my surprise the meat around the wound wasn't all shock damaged ,bloody at all., like maybe one inch larger than the pullet hole. But that is all my experience with the cx bullets.

🕵️‍♂️ Ryan, It Is Time To Pull Out The 280 AI For a Comparison! It Would Be Good To Try And Use The Same Exact Bullets (Make and Weight) For Each 7mm in Your Comparison (Apples to Apples) Too! 🤷‍♂️

I own both and am comfortable shooting either one in most situations however given a choice I am likely to gravitate to the 7mm PRC. I am considering rebarrelling one of my M70 Supergrades in 7mm PRC.

For Whitetails in south Mississippi my 7mm RM has been doing great for last 30 years. Are there better very possible. But I have no complaints

I built my 7 to do what the prc does years before it came out nowadays the prc offering save a lot of time of the reloading bench with time limited I definitely plan to switch someday.

The 7mm Weatherby Magnum still kicks some serious butt with downrange power. It is probably the most undervalued, mid-range cartridge you can use for North American big game.

🕵️‍♂️ You Saw For Yourself That The 270 Winchester - Using Copper Bullets - Penetrated Every Bit As Good As the 7mm's and Did It With 30% to 40% Less Recoil Than Either Of These Cartridges (To Help Me Put The Bullet Where It Needs To Go)! I Don't Need The Extra Recoil To Kill My Game and Have Killed Several Dozen Big Bull Elk To Prove That The 270 Winchester Is The Real King (Best Choice For Hunting North American Big Game)! If I Wanted a 7mm, The 280 AI Would Still Be My 1st Choice (I Don't Want All The Extra Recoil, For The Minimal Difference in Performance and Only 1" Difference in Bullet Drop and Drift at 500 Yards)! 🤑

if i didn't already have, and was heavily invested in, a 7RM, i'd quite likely be in the 7PRC camp.

The 7prc doesn't kill the 7 mag, it kills the 280 Ackley.

PRC copper almost looked over expanded. I bet they engineered the optimum expansion velocity for a greater distance than 100.

I would hate to think of 7mm 08 as a led balloon anymore than a 25-06 or 30-30, all of which work every well in their given areas of use.

My Savage 110 7 mm Rem shooting 175 grain Nosler Partitions has never left me wanting more gun on Blacktail and Roosevelt Elk.

For the felt recoil I may be mistaken but I believe I read that the higher the velocity then the better a brake can work so perhaps if the prc is going faster that could be a reason. Maybe take the brakes off and compare as well.

Ryan! 7-08 a lead ballon?!? We own 3 in this house. Perfect whitetail hammer!

I think you are spot on Ryan. I really believe cartridge design changes felt recoil.

A year and a half ago I came to the conclusion that bullets in the .270 - .281 diameter range are ballistically perfect. They have the flattest trajectories at the highest velocities with the slowest loss of velocity over distance, with the best penetration and accuracy anyone could ask for of a rifle cartridge. 7mm is as close to perfect as we are humanly capable of making. It gives the perfect package.

7mm08 amazing cartridge. One of best every made.

7mm rem mag has 10.7 grains more case capacity, if freebore section of your rifle is longer than factory, lets say like 6-8 mm longer, then the 7mm rem mag is completely in different category than 7 prc, it is actually pretty close to 28 nosler.

The 280A keeps getting brought into the discussion every time the 7prc gets compared to the 7mm rem Mag. If you are hand loading, you may as well throw the forgotten 280 Remington into the mix. It's a capable round available in the older light weight mountain rifles. My Weatherby Acumark has put a lot of meat on the table .

Co worker just spun up a Tikka in 7 prc subjective recoil I felt was lighter than the rem mag. I would buy a 7 prc before buying the rem mag personally.

If the shorter fatter case eases kick why does the 375 ruger kick twice as hard as a 375 H&H?-maybe not twice but the H&H sure doesn't bruise my shoulder like the ruger does

The one true statement that sums up this entire conversation is IF you're loading for 7 rem mag, there's nothing the prc can do that the rem mag can't. 175 grain berger elite hunter with a bc of .656 and a velocity of 2975-3000 fps? With accuracy of .22 inch group out of my sako S20.... tell me again how the 7 prc is superior ballistically to that? 🤔

The difference is counting on the prc reaching 3000fps… it actually falls a good 170-200fps short of that number making the rem mag virtually identicle out too 1000 yards. The reason they want to hit the 3000fps mark was to out run the 6.8 western which it doesn’t

Great Podcast 💯💥💥💥💥💥💥💥

I also would like to see performance results at longer ranges, obviously outside. In that situation, the 7 PRC will smack that backside of the 7 RM. Adam at Who Tee Who did a drop chart on a number of cartridges including 7 RM and 7 PRC to illustrate his point. Out to almost 500 yards, with the .308 being the worst, most of the cartridges people use are within an inch or so of drop. Past 500 yards, the 7 PRC shines brightly. Since so many people have hunted whitetail with 7-08 and 7 RM, it can obviously do that and the short range of whitetail is no reason to leave it at home. I have seen elk taken with 7 RM and I know the 7 PRC can do that, too. A great and all-around rifle. As well as good at long range. Adam said as much. Even though he got a 7 PRC (two of them), he may sell one of them and will still hunt with his 7 RM. Until this year, my rifles were all .308s. I never had a 7 before, never had a standard long action with a technically magnum round. Until I got the 7 PRC. And it is shooting very well with the Precision Hunter 175 gr ELD-X. Exactly as Ryan said. A turnkey "off the shelf" rifle that shoots great with factory ammo. And that is because, I think, the design and SAAMI spec. The minimal free bore requirement is such that any factory has to build a precision rifle. You can't have different COALs, so ammo companies have to be careful. And now Federal is making a 175 gr expanding hunting load. 7 PRC is perfect for me and anyone new to the 7s, long actions, or rifles that have good performance over distance. But if you have a 7 RM, you may not need a 7 PRC. But I know some are going to get one because "reasons." I don't think that is the only market for the rifle. People have hotrodded 7 RM and even .243 for decades. but that did not stop the 6.5 CM from taking off and taking over. In fact, I am willing to bet some lunch money that it is going to keep outselling the 6.5 PRC even though the 6.5 PRC might have better specs in some says. People are still shooting .300 WM even .300 PRC could win hands down.

Block of wood in front of the gel to simulate bone. Curious to see the CX expansion at lower velocities.

Coming back and watching this a second time and wondering if you guys checked the velocities on the prc. With the velocities they’re seeing with the alternate powder I wonder if that would have had an issue on the gel block results

“They jiggle”…hilarious!

Wish you would have compared the 7prc to some popular wildcats like the STW

This is like Marc Anthony at Julius Caesar's funeral: "I have not come here to praise Caesar, I've come here to bury him."...we all know how that turned out for the conspirators. 7MMRemMag ain't going' nowhere folks. How many times have they "buried" the 30-06?

I would think the cartridge that shot all at once over a shorter period of time would have the sharper recoil

For better or for worse the older designs tend to feed more reliably though. That squarish shoulder can get hung up more easily.

This is like watching Seinfeld of the gun world! I love it!

Bought a lightweight christensen ridgeline in 7 PRC for an elk hunt with the Hornady 160 CX bullets. Couldn't be happier with it

How about a talk on the 7prc vs the 28 Nosler

I just bought a tikka in 7mm rem mag. I was looking for something a little less recoil than my 300 win mag. I love the belted mags. The ballistic charts are very close.

I'm going to be honest... that is terrible expansion out of the 7mm PRC 160 gr CX bullet. And that is at 100 yards...

I agree with your theory on recoil, has a 300 wsm and 300 win mag, the wsm felt like a much sharper recoil imulse.

I hypothesis the shoulder angle of the brass creates a spike in pressure on ignition which would equal a sharper recoil pulse.

Once a Ferrari always a Ferrari…might be Miami Vice Ferrari, but still… Ryan, Weatherby is offering really well made factory 280ai ammo now, so for guys that like that cartridge but could never find good factory ammo, that might breathe a little life into it. It’s seems like they’re fans and onboard with the cartridge. They’re loading the hammer bullets in it as well, which would be a great choice. I do think ammo availability is an important metric. I understand what you guys are saying about not needing as many choices, if the available choices are ideal. The difficult part is, different gun shops or big box stores carry different brands…so availability can be important in those regards. I do think you’ll see less expensive options for the PRC in the future, but maybe not…that would be like seeing 28 Nosler federal Powershok…probably won’t see that one, ever.

Ryan, you sound like a closet lover of the 7mm rem mag. A helpful observation regarding forecasting the future is "Making predictions is risky, especially if they are about the future." I enjoy what you all do.

The PRC will never reach the level of market penetration that the 7 RM has, therefor it will never die. New cartridges are introduced not to fill a need, but to sell rifles and ammo.

7mm-08 is a lead balloon?? I turned around from my reloading bench and gasped! Ryan how could you, after all the respect I've gained for you 😭 I received a Remington 700 CDL in 7mm-08 on my 12th birthday and I've used the cartridge for well over half my life, from deer to predator to matches. I've shot steel at 1000 yards and deer at 10. Winchester honored it by placing it on their StaBall 6.5 powder canister, and my match load is that powder under a 162 ELD-M. Your episode DEFENDING the 7mm-08 from a couple years ago is one of my favorites. It may not be the most popular but it is still a favorite for many. I just sent my dad 40 rounds for the WISCONSIN deer season, which I grew up hunting every year but now unfortunately live too far away. The 7mm-08 is here to stay 😤

Looking to pick up a 7PRC myself.

Contemplating picking up a 7PRC. Ryan, what monolithic bullet would be looking at to handload? I am starting to gather components and was thinking the 168gr Barnes would be a good place to start.

I love .284 caliber I have 3-7mmags one with a custom JC barrel . And 28 Noslar can’t see any reason for PRC but I’ll get one anyway!!!

The PRC is better for it's chamber tolerances and long bullet use. Many 7mm Rem Mags will do the same as Ryan states for the most part. I shoot 175 gr. Accubond LR's in mine with a 1:8 twist and 5R rifling and it loves it. I have set the bullet out to maximum length to clear the magazine and even though Hornady says you cannot get accuracy from the Rem mag with long bullets, I've proven to myself I can. Some day I may buy a PRC anyway, but right now, I have lots of Jamison brass and bullets, so going to stick with it. ;) The PRC is limited as it doesn't shoot lighter bullets well. My rem mag is set up for out ot 1500 yards though also, so it's not really any improvement for long range.

Surely its the powder type rather than the column shape itself Fast vs slow burn would be more likely to feel different

What scope do you recommend for my 7mm Rem Magnum?? This would be my first vortex scope ??

I didnt have either, but i just got a 7 PRC. I think it will be better to reload (without the belt), its a bit more efficient, and i like the factory fast twist and factory ammo. I think either would be fantastic, but since i was buying a brand new, i decided to go with a newer cartridge

When do we see the 6.5 BC vs. the 6.5 PRC?

The 7 mike mike mag was used for years by USSS snipers. They claimed 700 yard range in custom Remington 700s with hand loaded ammo from Remington. Yes, HAND loaded from Remington.

🤔 The Reason Why the Recoil "Felt Softer" On the 7mm prc is Because The True Velocities (Which You Should Be Cronographing) Aren't What is Printed on the Box (Especially For the 7mm PRC)! You Should Also Pull The Bullet and See What Powders Are Being Used For Each, Which Will Influence "Felt Recoil"! 🤪

Mark, if you were starting from scratch today, and I offered you identical browning X bolts, your choice between 7PRC or 300 WSM, which would it be? Same question, but this time we're in a make believe world where there is equal factory ammo availability for both.

The Ammo industry continues to bring new products (made of the same material as their other products) to market to increase sales. Its advertising is designed to make you believe that you “need” this new and different product. Same brass, powder, bullet for the most part.

Chronograph the loads. I’m curious on the actual felt recoil from the rifles.

Hornady does not offer enough bullet weights and types in their propritary cartridges. Hornadies bullets for hunting are garbage and their monolithic ammo is insanely expensive and impossible to find on shelves. Shoot 6.5 PRC and 6.5CM into ballistic jell and you will see that the 6.5 PRC does not outperom the 6.5CM because the Hornady bullets can not hold together to take advantage of the extra energy and velocity the 6.5PRC has over the 6.5CM. Put a Nosler Partition or Speer Grand Slam or Barn's monolithic in the P6.5 PRC and watch it run away from the 6.5CM. Hornady makes terrible hunting bullets especially when looking at other companies controlled expansion bullets.

Mark, when you mention the recoil you also mention that both rifles had brakes. My theory is that the more efficient powder column of the PRC may have helped the brake to be more efficient in its recoil reduction. I see a kind of similar thing between my personal 5.56 AR vs my Grendel that i used to have. The Grendel actually shot softer even with both rifles having the same muzzle brake design and the grendel shooting a bullet more than twice as heavy. Granted there's a much bigger disparity in tegards to velocity and bullet diameter, but i think brakes work better on more efficient cartridges.

I wanna see this episode but also throw in the 28 nosler and 7mm stw and the 280 Ai

It’s been 2 years of me asking for the 6.5 rem mag cartridge talk lol come on!!!!!

I just shot a bunch of 180 eldms out of my seekins element in 7prc yesterday. It either shot so good that it was one hole or it struggled. I wasnt confident so i switched to the 175 eldx and the groups were around the .25 mark at 200 yards. Could cover all the groups with your thumbnail. My old 7mm in a Sendero package never grouped very well even though it shot 1000 well. There is no reason to leave the 7 rem just to get a PRC. BUT if you are looking at a new rifle, PRC is the way to go.

Ryan says he's sorry! Sounds like you have a reliable rifle that gets the job done.

Y'all should do a AR comparable episode 300 black 556 6mm arc 762x39 it's crazy how many of these small cartages are ending up in deer/hunting camp 6.8 SPC as well

I own a Tikka t3x superlite in 7 rem mag with a vortex viper HSLR and it's great 139 grain LRX is perfect for deer where I live.

Show Kramer some love too!