WOW am i glad i found this channel and subscribed,your explanations using precise calculations is hard to find,most will just say this or that sounds better,and respect to them for their work,but hearing it explained the way you do is convincing Thanks for the 2 videos,i now feel better about not being allowed to put holes in my ceiling.i have always thought about the axis problem,but i am so new at this hobby that i did not have the confidence to speak up.Nor the knowledge or language to explain my concerns. Here is my issues/problem now tho,now that you have convinced me of the importance of the axis. i have already ordered and paid for my 2 sets of speakers,the 1st set is on the way Monitor audio Bronze 1,and pre ordered the new Monitor audio up firing speaker(Released in July). The original thinking was in ceiling was best,but i cannot cut my ceiling,so up firing are a good compromise to in ceilings.So i ordered those atmos.The up firing were going to be to my left and right on top of the bronze 1. But now i have some remorse(but fixable) about this decision(More the placement than the purchase decision tho). You have convinced me to go on axis down firing from the ceiling.From part 1 video,here i decided on one speaker 5-6ft in front of me,the other 5-6 ft behind me.Did i understand that correct mate? But here is the issue,i may have one set of speakers too many? Unless i can use the Monitor up firing atmos on a ceiling mount firing down at me on axis? Can such a speaker be used for that in that way? Or i could mount the bronze one from the ceiling on axis,but where else could i use the Monitor up firing? i am worried i may have a set now that i cannot incorporate into my system,wasted money. If i can mount the up firing atmos to shoot down at me from ceiling,where would you suggest i put the Bronze 1? being paid for in full and on the way i hope i can incorporate both sets here Thanks for your videos mate
Ever since I reconstructed the arm-mounts for my height speakers. Basically giving them an extra 6-in distance from rear wall to the back of the reflex ports,, I swear the bass I'm now experiencing has improved quite noticeably... ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-xvdqI5qZa6g.html
Good tests. Happy I installed our four Atmos ceiling speakers a little closer to the couch front and rear. The rear two are close to just behind our heads. The front two are about four feet in front of our heads. Not had a chance to listen to them as I just installed them yesterday and our replacement AVRx4500H has not yet arrived.
Setup the AVRX4500H and a 100w x2 channel amp for the FL/FR. Had to order a $24 rca type Ground loop isolator to deaden the speaker hum. 2ch amp at 35% (Audesy added +12db for the FL/FR speakers) Any more volume from 2 ch and the hum is noticable. If I unplug the RCA pre outs from AVRX4500H to 2 ch amp the hum is eliminated. (No FL/FR speaker then of course) When playing music or watching movies/TV the hum is not an issue from low to our loudest volume setting (rarely turn past 65 at loudest) Oh yeah...the 4 in ceiling Ci160ER speakers sound great in the 7.2.4 setup.
Paradigm in ceilings are relatively affordable with a 30 degree angle. I have those klipsch for my kids atmos setup and I did what you said I brought them in closer than specked to make sure they are on axis. I think they are 15 degree but the tweeter itself is much better and you can aim it directly at the LP. Klipsch also makes metal back boxes for them for a fresh install. that are only $45 or so.
Interesting! I haven't researched Atmos yet so I didn't even know if you wanted those speakers to be direct or more ambient. From your presentation you clearly want direct. I guess it's time to start designing the Atmos speakers!
This was an incredibly helpful video. So for a 5.1.2 setup, would having the two in ceiling speakers directly above the main seating couch be ok? Maybe placed above the ends of the couch pointing straight down, or set slightly inside the ends of the couch?
Thanks for the info. Still a bit confused. If missplaced, an av receiver, lets say Denon X3800H or better should be able to compensate the DB loss with EQ tuning, mostly for the tweeters/highs due to low dispersion angles. In the audyssey app it can be tuned further. For 1 or 2 seats it should work but not for 2 rows. So in theory, if i got the logic right, volume can be compensated. That means, it shouldn't matter if the speakers are angled towards mlp or not. The difference here is, you are building home theaters for many, I'm building it for myself 🙂
The avr can in no way fix poor placement or placement issues. Everything in the video exists before and after room correction. Sure room correction can boost if something is far off axis or blocked but you can only boost so much and if at all safely. You also have to understand the on axis is now heavily boosted and far louder at those frequencies which can bring various issues. See the video on toe in and dialing in aiming which explains speaker dispersion in more detail. This is all relevant for one seat or more.
Great video. Planning my second theater currently. Will have 4 JBL SCS-8's on brackets for my atmos speakers. The have a 120x120 degree dispersion pattern. With 2 rows of seats, should I still place in front and behind the MLP (which is first row) or put them above each row directly? 9 foot ceiling (so about 8ft to the front of the speaker once mounted). If not directly above the rows, should I still angle both all speakers at the MLP? I'm wondering if I were to angle the front heights (if in front of the row) towards the MLP and the rear heights straight down so the 120 dispersion is heard by both rows. Thanks for the input if you see this. (My surrounds are JBL 9300 and LCR are JBL 4722n if that helps at all)
Make sure the 4722s are at 60 degrees and not behind the screen. I've gone through a cinema speaker phase myself. For atmos lay them out for the main row. Everything in the room needs to be laid out for that row. You can angle the atmos to get both rows in the dispersion window as best as possible. If you need help with layout and DIY panels and placement see the description to contact me.
You want speakers mounted ad per dolbys diagram. Something like the Polk owm3 work great and can be aimed towers your main spot with cheap mounting brackets
If I want to place my 4 ceiling speakers at 45 degrees from my ears is it as simple as measuring vertical distance from ear to ceiling and matching the horizontal point to that measurement?
Thoughts on using Definitive Technology UIW RCS II, all angled toward the center seat? Top Front and Rear in line with bottom L/R. Top Middle moved over to Surround Height. position.
Thanks for all your great content. I'm in the process of building a home theater. What do you think about and inwall speaker but building the ceiling "box" out 45° and just mounting a good in ceiling speaker instead of flush mount take care of the off-axis issue? Would save a lot of money.
How about tripole overhead speakers? I have a full MK Sound 5.2.2 setup and use the SUR55T as top middle and it sounds very good to me. But wondering how to place them if I would go for 4 overhead speakers?
What would be the perfect size for a dolby atmos setup 11.2? I am going to build a house this upcoming year and am wondering this specific question. What would you say is the perfect size for sound?
Hello, great video I was going to get the RSL, but due to the epidemic they are temporarily closed . I was looking at either the Triad’s IC82 speaker or the Episode Signature 3 Series Point Speaker. any thoughts on which one?
I'm bias to Triad but I'd definitely look for an option with more angle. The rsl is special because it has both an angled baffle (15or 20 degrees) and a pivoting tweeter and it's so well priced. Triad does have a few LCR models on a 45 degree and also a round In ceiling with a 45 degree baffle and laser aiming but it's quite a bit more.
So angled ceiling speakers are better for Atmos than straight down-firing? Crutchfield recommends the straight downfiring ones for better dispersion. What to choose?
Have you finished the video? It will answer that. Its very easy to hear in the video and see what happens off axis. Even Dolby recommends you be on axis. Crutchfield is trying to sell speakers so take their recommendations with a grain of salt. Using dowfiring for better dispersion doesn't even make sense. Many times the reps that answer the phone at Crutchfield have very vey little actual knowledge.
@@hometheatergurus Got it. Thanks. Yeah I was impatient and was skipping around the video. So angled it is! I already have some Elac Debut ceiling speakers angled at 30 degrees I can use. What do you think?
@@menash41 you're welcome. I'd recommend you watch the video as it will really answer that question and even demonstrates audible what even being 20 degrees off axis sounds like which is about what you'll be using a 30 degrees pivoting tweeter. That said it's definitely better than something with no angle. These look promising as they have a 15 degree angle baffle but the tweeter also pivots so they "may" get that tweeter on axis. I need to contact them and see if I can get some to take some response sweeps off axis. rslspeakers.com/products/c34e-edgeless-in-ceiling-speaker/
Hey Anthowine, if the drivers are large enough to produce the needed spl they work fine assuming they're placed correctly. In my designs I usually have behind the screen subs placed using modal analysis hidden behind bass trap walls.
I love your channel first off and I'm in a unique position when placing my in ceiling atmos speakers and would love some feedback! My theater room is 14'wide and 18'long with a steeple shaped ceiling! Its at a very shallow angle though. Wouldnt this combined with those 8" round in ceiling speakers that have a 20degree or so pivot be ideal to aim at the 4 sweet spots? I'd had the added angle from the roof to better aim them really perfectly at the ideal position right sir? If love to give a better visual of my dilma if I can. I'd appreciate any feedback, really. Thanks for your vids I liked, subbed, etc.
Question: I’m using 5” bookshelf speakers for the bed layer. I plan on using the same brand and line speakers for Atmos. I know you said use identical speakers. Should they be the same woofer size as well? I have 5” woofers for the bed layer and would like to use 4” woofers for Atmos because they are smaller bookshelves.
That's perfectly fine. The comments about ideally being all identical are based on what Dolby recommends. It's not always doable. Choosing good speakers, proper placement and being on axis would definitely be things that matter more.
Thanks for the video - what about Kef uni q’s - I have R300s for mains and they are very wide dispersion - I am going to go with ci130qr in ceilings for mid top placement. When I get them run rew off axis measurement and see when the angle impacts the sound (putting them in custom boxes as I am contending with ventilation in the ceiling) but that will allow me to test the off axis performance should be interesting.
You'll be able to easily hear the highs drop off off axis. And they will. They're just a coaxial so they've made the marketing sound magical but it's just like any other coaxial.. You get the same dispersion 360 degrees around it. In my video on down firing atmos I was using a coaxial so these will react the same. If your custom boxes can be made to angle the Speaker at the mlp that would be far better.
Thanks - it will be interesting to see how much is hype- Will be taking your advice to configure with an angle to reduce the off axis to the seating area - good work really appreciate your channel - I always thought ceiling speakers same width as fronts was always a bit weird especially if the ceiling is not as tall as the distance to the front speakers then how would the imaging work the same - I think it would produce a blank space or at least sound thin between just like when fronts are to wide apart in stereo
Quick question. When measuring pink noise with spl meter to confirm 75db, avr volume nees to be on reference level which is 0 right? Or am I missing something? Thank You
@@ourlittlecakery9177 I use an old radio shack digital meter and umik-1 with REW so I'm not up to date on stand alone meters. I'd do a search on amazon for calibrated spl meters and look at reviews.
So do you think front and back heights would give better on axis coverage for all listeners than ceiling mounted if they can't be angled? I'm trying to figure out which way to install. Using same speakers for 4 atmos channels as base layer surrounds and can either install them in ceiling but only straight down firing or front/back wall as heights there I could use slight angling.
Hi Guru :) I've watched this episode and episode 3 several times, and then again. Having in-ceiling speakers, you say rather than having 45 degree angel, you would move it close to like 35 degrees. But a smaller angel means further away, so moving it closer should rather be like 55 degreee, correct? In episode 3 you talk about the 30 degrees to top front, that's further away than 45 mentioned in this episode. Would love the recommended in-ceiling placement, as asked below, in a 5.1.4 system with the top mid right above you. Love your videos, thank s alot.
@Home Theater Gurus yes, so the 45 degrees is ahead of you, and the 35 is the sideway placement. So your statement is true, by moving it in close from the sides, the degrees will narrow in. Thank for the reply, greatly appreciated. I have two options, but just outsite of the 0,7 x width of the distance between L and F. 1. in-ceiling 55 degrees to the side and 38 degrees to the front and 30 degrees to the side. Distance from mid top and front top is 2,5 meters (8,2 feet). This giving me the best seperation, but also loosing high-tones in front. 2. in-ceiling 55 degrees to the side and 45 degrees to the front and 39 degrees to the side. Distance from mid top and front top is 1,8 meters (5,9 feet)
If you're running 0.0.2 then just in front of mlp with speaker facing you as much as possible. If you're running .4, then look online for atmos placement.
Hi, wondering whether you could give me an advice. Planning to install some ceiling speakers. My room is 10 feet width by 13 1/2 feet length (wall to wall measurement). Using a 100 inch projector requires an optimal distance of almost 10 feet which requires me to position the couch close to the end. Currently, running 5.1 setup and planning to install some ceiling speaker. Would you suggest I install 4 ceiling speaker or 2 speaker. If I go for the 4 speaker setup, I would be force to install the 2 set ceiling speaker almost directly on top of the couch (90 degrees) and the other two sets around 35 degrees in front as I do not have enough space behind the couch as its too close to the back already. Hope to hear some advice from you. Many thanks..
Hi, I have 7.2.2 setup with Yamaha RX-V3085 receiver which can amplify 9 channels with 11 channels processing. I was looking to upgrade to 7.2.4 setup but I will need a external 2 channel power amp. I was thinking to buy active bookshelf speakers instead of buying speakers and amp separately. Do you think its good idea to use Edifier S1000db as Rear Surrounds? www.edifier.com/au/en/speakers/s1000db
Yes those should work well. Also check out the JBL LSR305. It's measurements are what others dream of and has beaten some serious speakers in blind test.
@@hometheatergurus Thanks, I really appreciate your reply. I recently started watching your videos and I just love your work :) One more question: If I decide to go for additional 2 channel Power Amp for my rear height ceiling speakers, what will be the best budget amp? I am from Australia and we don't get enough cheap 2 channel amps here.
@@diamondjiwanpuri on the budget side Emotiva Basx as long as you don't have power hungry speakers and need reference levels. Also the crown xls 1502 if you do need some serous kick in the butt. You'll notice in my theater walk though I use a Basx a700 as my speakers are sensitive. Also the used market is a good place to find reasonable amps from parasound, etc.
@@hometheatergurus I think using external amp and speakers will blow out my budget. I will stick to your proposal of getting Powered Active bookshelf speakers for Rear Surrounds - JBL LSR305 MII. I can get these for around $375 AUD for a pair. Thanks, Diamond
Hi, one more question please, will adding another receiver solve my purpose? 2 channel amps are very expensive in Australia but this 5.1 receiver is on special price today. www.harveynorman.com.au/yamaha-htr-2071-5-1-channel-av-receiver.html
holy cow!!! listen just throw in some in ceiling speakers at listening center of room and put a damn movie on ! NO METERS ALLOWED WHILE WATCHING MOVIE ENJOY!
@@jayshad06 those are bipoles/dipoles. They could be used as bipoles are approved only for the bed layer. You are also supposed to sit on axis between the two lobes so even if you used them they'd need to be angled. But they do look nice just not right for the application.
Thanks. And I wanted two rows because I wanted two rows. We had over 20 adults and kids in that room several times. Usually kids parties and sleepovers. But the new one we're only doing one row. It's definitely cheaper and the kids can have the floor.
