Ep. 8 - Subwoofer Setup | Stop losing OUTPUT! Gain matching | Home Theater Gurus! 

Great video, thanks for sharing the knowledge

I been playing with calibrated 🎤 and REW for a few days. I finally set it up nicely on my position. Then I decided to move microphone 🎤 to 2nd seat next to me. Measurements were all over the place. Just 3 ft makes a huge difference in my basement

I’ve probably learned more from your videos than I have in the last year about HT and I’ve watched a lot of videos and did a lot of reading. You use 3 aspects of teaching (explanation, visual, and demonstration) which proves to be quite effective. Thank you for making this channel.

I do everything you have laid out But I don’t move subs in the room . I get rid of the room modes by putting the mic close to the sub driver ,12 inches. By having the mic near the sub the room effects are not Influencing the gain

Should I ajust the SPL of my speakers with white noise or pink noise?

this is a very informative video. Can REW be used to level match multiple sub or must it be done with an SPL meter? I own 4 SVS PB 2000's and A SVS SB 4000 Ultra, but I'm curently only using the Quad PB 2000's. My room is rectangular and i have two SVS PB 2000's stacked in the front left corner and two in the front right corner. I Just purchased the mini DSP HD and the Umik-1 mic. I would like to know if level matching is necessary for matching subs? Since my subs are sitting in the front left and right stacked, would i need to invert any of them using the mini DSP HD? My current Avr has parallel outputs, but in the near future I'll be upgrading to an AVR or Processor with independent Sub outputs, so that i can integrate my SB 4000. PS: A video of my setup is in my channel

Hey bud. I probably went this with one one of your episodes. But I have 2subs with one output (wired together internally on my Denon) not good. Lol. But what I forgot to mention is one of my subs is wireless and of course the other ones wired, if I do Odyssey EQ would it be better if I hardwired the other one? One is Directly behind our sitting area, and the other one 12 foot behind the TV. I tried to get a match him like you said in episode eight, but the one behind the couch is blowing my freaking head off. So of course I turn the game down and it does sound better. When you get a moment, just tell me what you think. Thanks for all your help again bud. I hope your house is doing well. Ps. Really ridiculous question coming. But where do u buy your v- neck tee’s?peace man!!

Doing this Friday (ep7 and ep8). Do I run Audyssey first then do ep8 and ep7? BTW, I have 2 identical subs...Elac Debut 2.0 sub3010 and they only have an app and in that app it has volume and gain.

If the subs are the exact same model, do they still need to be gain matched?

If I have two identical subs do I need to gain match them?

What about stacking subwoofers? I'm about to do that since I don't have room in my condo to put a second sub anywhere else. I just bought a slim Dayton Audio 1000L that's going to be laying flat making it down firing and I'm going to have my ported front firing sitting right on top of it. Both are 10 inch 100 watts but different make and model. Thoughts?

if i have 2 of the same subs, do i need to go through gain matching?

I cannot get any sound to pass through my minidsp. I have the LFE channel from my processor going into Input 1 and my 2 subwoofers are on Output 1 & 2. No sound passes through the minidsp. I have followed your Video #8 so I know it is set up properly. Just no sound passes through to my subs.

Are you in Texas?

So basically I don’t have to do do this at all if I have to identical SVS PB16 ultra?

for 2 SB-2000, do I chose pink noise or frequency ? if they are identical, adjusting the gain one is enough?

Is this necessary for a case where you have subs with a digital volume like SVS-4000 series? If they are identical models, can you just make sure they are both set to 0 or -10 or -15?

Hi I whanted to try out 4 subbs in my room. I have 2 svs pb4000 now and i could borrowed Home 2 XTZ 12.17 Edge subbs. Im trying one in each corners if i like 4 subbs in my room i probloby get 4 matching subbs but i could get my hands on 2 xtz for now youst to try it out. How would you recomend to set them up and drive them i can have them all ports open or have them seald. Maybe better to try seald in my small room 1500 Cubic feet concreat seald. Can i set up my mic were my best seat for movies and volume match them from there.? I have a Arcam avr550 whit Dirac Live. So if i go in to my computer and dirac live i can messure my subbs one by one is this ok or is my room going to do bad things to the sound that way and i need to put the mic up front against the drivers one by one and messure that way..? Arcam avr550 reciver youst messure for one subb. So after volume matching them and i calibrate it youst calibrate for one subb for al my 4 subbs. Hope you not what i mean you have done a great video to explain but feelt that in need to ask anyway sorry.. ☹ I youst watch movies in this room.

INTERESTING, I came up with a way to gain match my subs, please tell me what you think? I own a Yamaha rx-a3070, it has dual sub outputs and can EQ them using ypao, my subs are 2x emotiva basx s12 300w class D r/ported and 2x accusound 8.6xd 12" 200w class A/B r/ported, configuration front/rear, yamaha feeds front emotiva and accusound daisy chained to it, emotiva left front and accusound right front, rear once again yamaha feeds emotiva and it's at chest hight with accusound daisy chained to it, it sits mid way on the right side of room, in setting gains on subs, I run ypao, I then go straight to results, then to levels, looking at subs results, say front ypao is turning them down 2db, I go to gain on subs and turn them down a bit, this could be either way depending on results, I'll run ypao a number of times until sub level results show me font/rear 0.0 db , this would mean I've gain matched the subs at the subs using ypao, yes? My results, the emotiva rear is at a lower gain level compared to front, by 2.5 notches on gain, the accusounds I've matched the gain on them. The only thing I'm not doing is spl of emotiva and accusound to compare and match the out put levels of each, should I do this?, being different amp types, power and sound would this come into play too? As it is now I'm getting a great response and chest slam that can take your breath away LOL.

I think I'm missing the point. If you place the second sub in the same position and set it to match the first sub, wouldn't the output change if you place the second sub in a different location? I have dual SB-1000 pro subs, one outputs greater than the other due to its placement.

Great video. Super helpful. I have 2 extremely different subs 1) a Paradigm PS1200v.3 ported 12" and 2) a Martin Logan Dynamo 700 sealed 10". I followed your excellent directions very closely making sure to place each sub in precisely the same location over and over. It took several tries to find a test tone that both was not in a room mode and was "representative of overall response". I thought I had it at 53 Hz; but eventually found that gain matching at 75 Hz gave me the best alignment across the majority of frequencies from 23 Hz (the tuning point of the PS1200) to 100 Hz. It's impossible to align the ported and sealed subs below about 30 Hz. Surprisingly the tiny 10" sealed sub has increasing output (with a sine wave sweep) below 31 Hz. I guess the point of my post is to share that if you have very different subs, you should keep experimenting with test tone selection when gain matching until you get "best alignment" across a range of frequencies (not just at one frequency).

Thanks for the video, and the whole series, it's a fantastic help. One question: I have 4 sealed subs for my room. 2 15" in the rear corners, and 2 18" in the front corners. I put larger in the front because they're further from our seats. I wasn't expecting to gain match all 4 subs (left and right yes), I thought I'd have the fronts playing a bit louder, before then time aligning them all with the miniDSP, as per episode 7. Are you saying that I should limit the SPL of my 18" subs to match the 15", or should I allow the 18s to go a bit louder (because they can, and they're further away)? Many thanks

I have a dual sub setup at my front left and rear right. The rear right one is very near to me (next to the couch). I did this gain matching and then EQ my subs as with Ep. 7. The sub closest to me became too loud, to the point that I can hear/feel it coming from the direction of where it is. So I reduced the near field sub gain by 3db and EQ them again. They sound more natural and non-directional now. Has anyone encountered the same issue?

Thanks for all the great videos! You indicate place all the subs in the same location for gain matching. If this were impossible due to the fact that one sub is in a permanent location in a closet as I didn't want a 12 cubic foot box in the room, where should I place my other subs for gain matching? In front of or next to the permanent one would be my first choice. Btw the wall is cut out so the driver is firing into the room. Thanks again.

If I had veins popping out of my biceps, I'd probably tell people to move their heavy subs around as well, LOL! Nah, I kid. Good stuff . . .now, back to Ep 7 . . .again!

Great video! Quick question though. If I'm placing a third sub nearfield right behind my listening position, will I still leave the sub behind me playing at a higher level since it will be gain matched with the two subs from farther distances away? And would this lead to localization issues or other negatives? Thanks man!

So greatful to stumble across this & episode 7. 👏👏

Are you gain matching at the listening position or gain matching the subs to each other . In you example, the rear sub is closer to your listening position than your front sub so it will play louder at the listening position if it’s gain is matched to the front sub.

Have two new subs coming in a couple weeks and just received my umik-1 and downloaded REW . Thanks for all the good info !!

dumb question alert: how do i measure the volume of a down-firing sub. do i try to put umik-1 under sub, or turn sub on its side?

I can't believe I've never thought about this. I've just been letting Audessy do the matching.

Thank you, this was exactly what I was looking for. You made this very easy to follow. Great job!

Ughh, thanks for the videos I guess, you've now completely sold me on the mini dsp hence the ugh and I guess. At least they're not too expensive but I thought I was done spending money on my low end. I hope mini dsp cuts u some checks fellas. Good job

What if you have multiple subs running off one amp getting the same signal

Hello, I have two identical PSA subs. Does the gain knob on each sub have to be placed identical or if one HAS to be set higher or lower because one sounds lower than the other, does this mean the lower sounding sub is bad?

Thanks for another helpful video - and as after watching Episode 7, I have questions. 1. I have 2 down firing and one front firing ported sub. You indicated putting the mic right in front of the drivers. My SVS cylinders are down firing with the ports at the top and have a plate on the bottom below the driver. Must I disassemble them and lay them on their side or is there another way to address this. FWIW the front firing is a much more capable sub than the 2 cylinders that are pretty evenly matched and it's ports are on the front of the sub below the driver. 2. If there is not an option other than removing the plates from the bottoms I assume I would have to elevate them so that the drivers would be the same height off the floor as the front firing sub no?. 3. One cylinder and the front firing sub are native 20 Hz tune. The other cylinder is native 25 Hz but can be tuned to 20. Assuming I'll be employing a Mini DSP and Audyssey should I tune the 25Hz sub down to 20 to match them as most conventional approaches suggest or leave it at 25 so it's operating (assumably) optimally within it's native range? 4. . Having 3 subs and a challenging space I was going to attempt an Earl Geddes approach for placement. Any opposition to this or alternatives you'd suggest? Geddes work is really the only substantial reading I've found on 3 sub configurations. FWIW the room is 13' x 21' x 8'. Yes - I'm backward. I have no option but to have the mains along the long wall. Thanks again for another great video. I hope I haven't worn out my welcome with all of the questions. I just don't want to find out I've made the wrong choices down the road after aligning - EQing - Audyssey. I know it will take time but I"m trying to ensure it's the last time I'll do this for a while.

Hahahaha this guy is the bob ross of home theater videos 😂🤘🏼 good stuff

Do I run my AVR's calibration before or after gain matching both subs?

I have sliders on my 160lb SVS subs so I can just slide them around :)

Great video's. But the editing makes it hard ro understand sometimes. Choppy.

Your videos are knowledge bonanzas... I am learning a lot from them. And it is helping great deal in doing my own room corrections. Thank you very much and hats off to you for taking time and sharing your knowledge with the all.

so if you don't have a mini dsp. should I gain match my 2 subs like in this video and then run ypao?

I have both my subs at either side of the tv, how do I gain match them, do I pull one out to a spot in front of the listening area, measure it then the second sub, then put both back into place? Am I on the right direction.

God I love your videos and the empathy in your face and expressions in moving your 100 lb. + subs to gain match them properly 🤣. Thank you for all the work you've put into this series. Your definitely my hero for this year for sure !!

In a two driver enclosure, when measuring 1 driver, the combination of both drivers should be +3DB, theoretically.

Hi, so basically can I conclude that if I have two exact same subs and miniDSP can set subs at 12 o'clock , the AVR at 0 dB, and adjust the SPL from the miniDSP?

I have def tech 8060 towers and a single PB-2000. The subs in the towers roll off at 40 hz. Would it be beneficial to match them all using a 50 Hz tone. The subs in the towers just have a volume knob and not a true gain knob. Thoughts?

Hi Steven. I've gain matched the plate amp on my 2 identical subwoofer. Now the 2 subs are in different locations (1 is much closer to me than the other and my Yamaha pre/pro has independent sub outs). I am not using the minidsp but was wondering if each of the sub channels should have a different level setting in the pre/pro because of their location?

Where do you set your gain to start? Once you've gained matched them do you never touch the gain again? I say this because I currently like my gain on the subs at - 10 and my AVR trim /level at - 11.

So if all my subs are the same , and using the same amp , is gain matching not necessary?

Nicely done thanks, I have 4 Klipsch subs 2 12” SPL120 and 2 RW12d, the 2 12” spl 120 are at the front of the room and the RW12d are at the rear of the room, my Marantz SR 8012 has 2 subs pre outs using 1 pre out with a splitter for the 2fronts and second preout with a splitter for the rears. The avr is set to mono for the subs, is this the best way to go?

@Home Theater Gurus what do you think about what the AVRant podcast said about this video? here is the video ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-J3IiG9LOFsk.html starts at the 30:03.

My subs are built into the attic, there are four of them, Infinite Baffle manifolds with 2 x 18” drivers. They are located a 1/4 into the room as dr floyd recommended. My main seating position is just forward of the rears. I’ve set each one to 75db from listening position.

If you have to measure your subs with the umik1 close up to the cone if you can't move your subs around in the room - do you have to change the calibration file in REW to the non-90 degree calibration file? Or just leave it on the 90 degree calibration file? Thanks!

Does this apply at all if I'm using the exact two subwoofer and place their volume dial at the same exact position?

I’m confused, why use DSP? Can’t I just adjust everything in the receiver? (Yamaha A2070)

Should we put the subs to gain match in one of our dedicated spots we put the subs?

I must be doing something wrong. I’m using the tone generator in REW and I’m playing a 50htz tone and I get 85 dB on sub 1. I then remove sub 1 and put sub 2 in its place and I read 85 dB, but when I adjust it in the mini DSP for sub 2 on output 2 nothing happens in real time. Only when I adjust output 1.

Would you level match the subs after gain matching them?

I was looking for a little advice. Equipment: Emotiva RMC-1L, MiniDSP 2x4HD, 2 SVS PB2000 Subs, DIRAC room corrections. I Did the alignment, and then ran the DIRAC room corrections software. It seems off. I’m concerned the EQ from the DIRAC is messing with the MiniDSP alignment. I put in a house curve for the miniDSP, but it doesn’t seem to do anything at the lower volume settings, as opposed to before the MiniDSP, I had a Harmon curve in the DIRAC EQ and the low end came through nicely at lower listening levels. any Help would be great. What am I doing wrong.

So you don’t even need your theater setup or theater room? Just measuring SPL with the same sub location and mic placement etc?

Planning to use my PSA S1512 near field and to add a PSA S3012 on front. The S3012 is essentially a “double” version (dual woofer and twice the amp power). Would you gain match the smaller sub higher or leash the bigger sub down? I guess the smaller sub being near field won’t need to work hard anyway and bringing things down is protecting the hardware in a way? Thanks your your videos!!

THIS WAS THE WORST WORKOUT VIDEO I'VE EVER SEEN! HE DIDN'T DO ONE SET??! LOL 😆 .......

Very enlightening, thank you! Regarding the alternate to place the mic at the sub vs move the sub.........I have a front facing driver and a floor facing driver (SVS PB-2000) . Is the mic placement a viable approach with the floor firing sub and if so how place the mic. Thanks.

So do you do this before or after running Audyssey? If before, do you then ignore Audyssey telling you to adjust gain to get in the green zone? (All based on not having a minidsp)

My main listening position is a few feet closer to my rear sub than the fronts. They are all identical make and model. I spl matched them to the mlp before time aligning. Was that wrong? Should I have left them just gain matched and reading a different spl at the mlp instead? If I gain match different model subs in location A, when I place them in their final position a,b,c before time aligning, they will have different spl readings at mlp. This is the right way?

I have 2 of the new SVS PB-1000pro subs, which have a digital gain control, is this step still necessary? if I can go into the app on both Subs and set both to the exact same gain level?

Great content on your channel👍🏽..I just subscribed. Can you tell me which plugin you are using on your MiniDSP? I have a MiniDSP( not the HD or the balanced unit, just the original MiniDSP ), and use the 4 Way Advanced plugin. Is there a better plugin that I should be using? I run four subs, all different than one another. My current plugin doesn’t let me make use of the two sub preouts on my Marantz SR7013 AVR, which I would like to do, it only allows for one input to be used. Is the plugin that you use in this video only available on the MiniDSP HD? Thank-you for your help.

Really appreciate these videos! Probably a dumb question, but I'm building 2 devastators which will be running off a single channel of a 2 channel amp (at least for the time being). Do I need to gain match these since everything is identical? Thanks!

I have a miniDSP 2x4. Is it normal that it reduces my sub volume by 10db vs the tone directly from my Onkyo??

If I'm level matching all speakers to -75db. Should I use my Umik-1 or my digital VLIKE Sound Level Meter?

Awesome video Steve. Question, when doing this with umik do I change the file to noun 90degree file? I do know when measuring from mlp you select the 90 degree file.

Do we need to do anything different for a back firing sub like the M&K MX 5000? It also has two 12" drivers in push and pull configuration.

Just curious, I gain matched my two subs and one needed to be bumped 7db. Is it normal when looking at the output volume for that sub and it be a few db higher compared to the other because I had to boot it by 7db? Or should both look like they are outputting the same level?

Thank you for getting back with me trying to set my subs up. So is gain matching the first thing I want to do. I have 2 subs on the same wall one is a svs pb 16 and a pc 4000. It’s a down firing sub. Yes I can’t move them they are 2 big. In your video you said put the mic 6 inches from the driver. Then play a tone. I’m sorry but what is a tone. Is that the sound on rew when you do a reading. If so where would you put the mic for my svs pc 4000. Would you just put the mic 6 inches from the speaker as you would do the pb 16. Remember the pc 4000 is a down firing sub , so the driver is on the bottom of the speaker

Stacking 3 subs on top of each other, kinda like a DIY version of the REL 1508 predator stack. 6 subs in total, all fed off 3 XLS2002’s. Do I gain match each sub, or gain match each stack against each other? Same boxes, same drivers (SI SQL15’s on order) same power, 1050w @2ohm to all 6. Thanks and great videos.

I have one 15" sub in the front and two 12" subs against the couch. the two 12" subs are daisychained how should I messure them?

I've 4 subwoofers going into my new room. 2 of them will be wall mounted passive dual 10" subwoofers behind the screen and 2 will be powered sealed 12" at the rear of the room. How would I go about gain matching them?

Great video. I have 2 subs- 1 x12" rear port and 1x8" down-firing. The 8" (Definitive Tech 400 series) sub has a built in crossover (so only a gain knob on the back) @ 140hz. Will this 8" sub create issues for tuning these 2 subs together or will my minidsp HD be able to manage this? Wondering if i should ditch the 8" and get a proper 2nd sub sub with dials on the back? Cheers

Simple question. If using 2 of the same subs, like SVS. Using the digital app and setting the subs to the same gain level in the app would do the same thing right ?

I have 4 subs 2 pc 2000 and 2 pc13 ultra so do I need just to level match 1 of each in the same spot and just put the same settings on the other 2

I have four matching JBL.Powerbass10 subs. My room is 14' x 24' x 7' almost exactly 2000³ feet. The driver is floor loaded and the port side loaded. As far as the setup goes my system spans the long wall and I prefer aesthetically pleasing because I'm married for 33 years and the benefits outweigh the costs of powered subs being placed where the performance is tweaked to the nth degree. That being said, does the direction of the port master at all in sub placement when the driver is hiring level loop carpet that is glued to the concrete floor? Would it be advisable to make a solid acrylic (think corian countertops) plinth under each sub for better dispersion? I don't know how sound waves perform especially at the lower freqs. I could literally make some 4" thick slabs and cut a parabolic some on the CNC if I thought it would net results. Your opinion means a lot and I have a lot to learn. Subbed this channel for sure!

Lost me on this one, gain matching two subs, but put gain at 50% and leave it. 180 if sub behind you. Im lost. 😞

This assumes the subs are equidistant from the seating position right? If one or two are closer to the seating position then they will be much much louder than the ones furthest away. Am I wrong about this?

Wouldnt it be the same if they're identical?

this is a very informative video. Can REW be used to level match multiple sub or must it be done with an SPL meter? I own 4 SVS PB 2000's and A SVS SB 4000 Ultra, but I'm curently only using the Quad PB 2000's. My room is rectangular and i have two SVS PB 2000's stacked in the front left corner and two in the front right corner. I Just purchased the mini DSP HD and the Umik-1 mic. I would like to know if level matching is necessary for matching subs? Since my subs are sitting in the front left and right stacked, would i need to invert any of them using the mini DSP HD? My current Avr has parallel outputs, but in the near future I'll be upgrading to an AVR or Processor with independent Sub outputs, so that i can integrate my SB 4000.

Thanks very much! You taught me awesome information which I didn't know before! Excellent!

Have a small doubt, we should gain match the subwoofers after or before audyssey?

With 2 matching subs with 1 having a longer wire run than the other, will that sub need a bigger gain to compensate for the extra resistance in the wire?

Interesting. So when I play the tones on my subs and get them both to hit 80db...what am I doing? Is it not the same as this? Oh and both of my subs gain are at half way. On my receiver my left sub is at -4.5 while my right is at -2.0 Also my left speaker is about 13.1 feet from listening position while my right is 13.5 feet

GREAT Video! Could I gain match my subs if they are NOT in the same place? My 175 pound subs are exactly the same distance from my MLP, just on each side of my entertainment unit. Could I set up my SPL meter so that each driver cone is the same angle from the meter? Or will room gain play too big of a factor?

Thanks man for this update from Ep 7 nicely done.

Is there a problem having subs of different sizes? Say a 10" & 12" or 10" & 14"?

I'm very confused. This appears to be level matching not gain matching. You are adjusting the gains in order to get a similar SPL level. I have seen people talk in circles about these terms on forums and frankly I just learning what the difference is. It would just be nice to get a definitive answer on whether the technique in this video is actually gain or level matching. EDIT: I now see the last couple minutes talk about level-matching too. It still appears that moving subs into the same place and looking for similar SPL levels is/should be called level-matching.

so shortly, this video is for you, if you have different brand subs or different models/sizes..? But if you have same brand and size, then just turn the gain knob to the same, and your all set?

Man I wish I found your channel years ago. Any advice for gain matching with an IB set up (4 drivers that can't be moved) and dual subs?

You say I can use a 50-60Hz tone, but to make sure I don't have any nulls in that frequency. How would I know? Would I need to run a 10-100Hz sweep or something first? You also mentioned I can use Pink Noise instead. Pink noise is 20-20K Hz right? So this would still be OK?

Steven...What if my subs vary? I have 2 Jl Fathoms (front facing single subs) and Two power sound audio XS30Se (dual driver opposing faced). How would you measure properly to assure gain match? Thanks in advance

If I have different subs i.e. SVS PB2000 and a Martin Logan 150watt 10 inch should I still gain match even if the subs aren't a matching set? Will the ML not limit the SVS severely?

What’s about lvl matching? If I have 3 walls and subs placed asymmetrically, should I match lindens using an SPL meter before doing any measurements?