Ep50: Mind-blowing New Archeology of the Mountain Meadows Massacre 

My relative, Ira Hatch, was involved in this massacre. I am also glad to see this horrific crime continue to be brought to light. I still desire for the Mormon church to be held responsible. May your uncle and all who lost their lives rest in peace.

I am a descendant of one of the survivors.

Mine as well.., Member of the Meek Family

@@tewtravelers9586 how is the “Mormon church” responsible exactly? Please explain who and what you mean by that statement. The men who carried this out are long gone and no doubt have been held accountable by God for their crimes. “The church” (I presume you mean the presidency of the church at that time) did not condone nor sanction their actions. This was planned out by only a few men. The rest were ordered to participate by their military commanders (each settlement had its own militia at that time) and most of those were unwilling participants at best. They were acting on a military level and went against direct orders from their local church leaders to leave the emigrants alone. There are religious zealots in every group. To condemn an entire religion for the inexcusable actions of a minority is irresponsible and unfair. “We believe that men will be punished for their own sins and not for Adams transgressions.” Should I hold you responsible because your ancestor participated? Are you even aware that the modern LDS leaders already issued an apology and funds from the church (tithing paid by members) are used for preservation of the sight and monuments. What more do you want? 🙄🤦🏻‍♀️

@@samitty7192 incredible display of confidence combined with ignorance. Not worth it.

Hector McLean was Eleanor's estranged husband, not her ex-husband. So Pratt was killed for messing with another man's wife. John D. Lee was tried twice. In his first trial, church leaders instructed witnesses to protect Lee, so Lee was not found guilty. Afterwards, because government prosecutors were putting more pressure on Brigham Young and other church leaders to answer for the crime, Young decided to make Lee the lone scapegoat. Prosecutors agreed to try and convict only Lee in exchange for not pursuing other perpetrators. In actual fact, Lee was not even the highest ranking Mormon involved in the incident. Lee was a branch president. Two others, William Dame and Isaac Haight, were stake presidents.

It’s a complicated story. Hector McLean was reportedly an increasely violent alcoholic wife-beater, who blamed his wife’s new religion much more than he blamed his own behavior for her finally leaving him. The custody battle over their two children was unusually brutal, even for that day and age, with frequent attempts made by Mr McLean to get his wife locked up in an insane asylum. Eleanor finally made her way to Utah, where unfortunately, many of Parley Pratt’s other wives blamed her for his death. I would say Mormonism didn’t help the situation, but that Hector latched onto her new religion as something to blame, rather than his own boozing.

I quit buying LDS books written by leaders after they wrote the "saints." They have gone through the history/stories with a fine tooth comb only releasing their narrative. Only what they want the world to know. Well the truth is out. Truth will set you free.. I have over one hundred books, i should sell them.

Thanks for sharing this history. I had no idea ..

Interestingly, it's true that Oaks stated, they do not have to apologize, because, it's not in the Bible. Their great example to the members.

There is a new book out about the massacre by Turley and Brown about the massacre which is a faithful rendering of the massacre compared to Will Bagley’s book Blood of the Prophets. We hope to do an episode comparing arguments between the two books so look forward to that in the future.

@@mormonishpodcast1036 Thanks.

The Mountain Meadows Massacre was the product of teachings and policies which were implemented by Joseph Smith Jr. beginning in 1832.

Liar. You rape and kill innocent Mormons...then threaten to do it again...and you get killed? You got what you deserved.

@@randyjordan5521 The Latter-day Saints suffered much persecution because of non-members who were influenced by corrupt individuals outside the Church. Which is why the headquarters of the Church is in the Salt Lake Valley. How about you people do a series on the persecutions inflicted on the Latter-day Saints by corrupt, ignorant anti-LDS? I doubt you’ll do that. By the way, how’s that book coming along? You know, the one that compares to the Book of Mormon.

It was an extremely moving experience for us, especially Rebecca who had to face the role her ancestor played in the massacre. Unbelievably, when the church paid for the restoration of the site they hired BYU to identify where the bodies would be!!! The school named after the man at a minimum who was responsible for setting the tone for the massacre and then covering it up!

@@mormonishpodcast1036 Brigham Young did far more than just set the tone. He personally presided over the meeting in which the attack was plotted, and he personally told the Indians that they could have all of the cattle that were being herded to California.

One night, the Prophet Joseph Smith was pulled from his bed in the middle of the night, and tarred and feathered by the mobsters. Joseph’s family spent the rest of the night getting the tar and feathers off him. The next morning, the Prophet presided over the Sunday meeting as usual, and he could see the mobsters sitting in the congregation. A small child that Joseph and his wife were caring for died from what happened the night before. I wonder what situation those mobsters and many others are in right now that persecuted the Latter-day Saints for years. I have an idea.

@@randyjordan5521 I know for a surety that Brigham Young was a Prophet of God, the same as Joseph Smith. Because of persecutors of the Church, Brigham Young had to move to about half a dozen different places in about a two-year period.

@@herbofallon965 The "mobsters" who attacked Joseph Smith and Sidney Rigdon were their own followers who opposed Smith's and Rigdon's demand that they sign their farms over to the church. Those people knew that that idea was just a plan for Smith and Rigdon to steal their land. Smith and Rigdon were later forced to flee Kirtland in the middle of the night because of the failure of their illegal bank, in which many of their followers had lost all of their money. More than half of all Mormons left the church over that incident. Smith and Rigdon then fled to western Missouri, where the only other group of their church members had settled. There, Smith and Rigdon attempted to institute the same type of communal "stewardship" plan which had gotten them run out of Ohio. Some of their followers there, including Oliver Cowdery, David Whitmer, and Lyman Johnson, refused to go along with the plan. So Smith and Rigdon formed a group of loyal followers called the Danites, and ordered them to drive the dissenters out of the area. The Danite mob then began attacking and plundering non-Mormon settlements to try to drive those people away. Smith and Rigdon's actual agenda was to drive everyone out of western Missouri so they could build an agriculture-based economic empire there, with them at the head and reaping the profits. That agenda of crime and violence, caused solely by Smith's and Rigdon's orders, is why the governor of Missouri ordered the Mormons evicted from the state en masse. You will never hear those true facts mentioned in your Mormon Sunday School class. If you want to know the full story of why Smith and Rigdon were dragged out of their homes in Kirtland and tarred, I suggest you watch a video titled "The Tar and Feathering of Joseph Smith | Mormonism LIVE! 093".

Thank you for listening!

Great point!

Too bad the loyalty, service and commitment of your ancestors is not a genetic trait. Thanks for leaving so we didn't have to throw you out.

@@johnlee1352 Thanks for your insightful reply. I’m curious, is JOHN D. LEE your namesake?

@@DanielEarth1 Of course.

@@johnlee1352 Are you a Danite?

@@DanielEarth1 Why?

Surely you realize that euro-descendants are being conditioned to pay restitution with their lives..

I don't think Hamblin was there. He and John D. Lee had a falling out, and Lee gave a list of participants, and Hamblin was not on the list. Lee would have been happy to put him there if he had been there.

I read your article And it was brilliant.. thank you!👍

@@dogdad5264 Thank you. I try to give "Just the facts, ma'am."

Just Google list of victims of the meadow mountain massacre. That's the easiest way. My family name is there.

Glad you enjoyed it! We appreciate you watching!

He covered alot of ur concerns in the video. You didn't watch the whole video did you. Can tell from your comments

When captors separate the men and older boys off from the women snd children, that is NEVER a hopeful sign for any captives.

"(Someone familiar with the site and erosion control may be able to answer this.)" Yes. It was answered by Everett Bassett in this very presentation, who showed himself to be very familiar with both.

​@@Tina06019I wonder about rape also.

As the saying goes, "A system gotten up in lies must be supported by lies."

The Mormon Church has never acknowledged that Brigham Young received much of the wealth from murdered families in this wagon train. This was the largest and richest wagon train ever to come to Utah Territory. Young saw them when they came to Salt Lake. Over 900 longhorn cattle were branded with the church brand. Young gave his favorite wife a fancy carved carriage and jewelry from the massacre. I wonder if he told her where they came from. If he was so appalled by the murders why would he celebrate robbing the dead by lining his own pockets with the gold and silver stolen from the families?

​@@skylark1250Mormons lie

Agreed.

If you weren't so lazy in your research, you probably would still be a member. But I'm so glad you are lazy. As a result, your weakness and confusion are on full display. Thanks for leaving so we didn't have to throw you out.

Brigham Young was too cheap to buy the immigrants wagons so they had to push carts across the plains and Rockies and many died as a result.

Then most recently you have George floyd. It's a thing

I read that book wow what an eye opener 👀 !!!

The group that ordered this ar long gone. Everyone’s entitled to an opinion. I would ask the same question,why would anyone give a shit what you think blaming people today for something done nearly 170 years ago.

Humm says who? Their leadership was not.,

@@henochparks no one..!!i feel that its like.oh we were persecuted..so we can somehow justify it...great episode..thank you...

They were terrorists. They poisoned the streams and killed some of the natives. They threatened to rape the Mormon women children.

The leadership of the Fancher/Baker party had no affiliation with the church and were completely innocent victims. Your inference that they had done anything to warrant a massacre of their party is completely unjustified!

@@henochparks All of the assertions that members of the Fancher party had committed offenses against any Mormons were made up by the Mormons who murdered them.

Please introduce yourself to us. We will be there!

Will do I’m so excited to go to this. One of my family was John D Lee. I’ve got family that has lived since pioneer days in the Cedar City, Enterprise, St George area. See you there.

The LDS church says it was local leaders acting on their own that ordered the murders. The truth is much more complicated. Although the Fancher wagon train was probably picked because of its extreme wealth there are many other contributing factors. First the LDS church had set up a theocracy in Utah with Brigham Young as territorial governor and Indian superintendent which was a presidential appointment. Based on the church controlling the territory the President ordered a new nonMormon governor to replace BY. BY refused to be replaced and the President sent an army to escort the new governor to make sure he was seated. BY then sent apostles to Southern Utah telling the Mormons to defend the territory from the army that was coming to “destroy” them. The Mormons then refused to sell goods to the non-Mormon wagon trains passing through Utah causing tensions between Mormons and the wagon trains. BY intended to shutdown the emigrant trails to demonstrate his power to the government to show them that only he could keep the trail open in order to retain his governorship. The Mormon followers believed BY wanted the wagon train massacred based on the rhetoric from the apostles in order to demonstrate his power to the nation. Additionally the wagon train came from Arkansas where apostle Parley P Pratt was killed weeks before and the Mormons were duty bound to exact revenge for Parley’s murder based on temple oaths they had made. There were many factors that combined that resulted in this massacre but the local leaders were scapegoats, they had been encouraged by their leaders.

@@mormonishpodcast1036 You're correct on every point, but another motive was that the Mormons wanted the Fancher party's goods to help arm and supply their own people in their insurrection against the federal government at the time. And the MMM wasn't the only such incident: the Mormons colluded with local Indian tribes to attack wagon trains as far north as present-day Idaho during that period. Here's some material I compiled more than 20 years ago: "This policy of robbing the passing emigrant was clearly a part of the general war tactics, since, for the time being, all 'Mericats' [Americans] were considered enemies. "As president of the Southern Indian Mission, [Jacob Hamblin] was responsible for the conduct of Indian affairs; as military commander of the area, Haight had sent these men to work with the natives in carrying out the war policies. With Zion standing against the world, and with the Indians as allies, they were prepared to prey upon every passing emigrant company as part of the contribution to the war." (Juanita Brooks, "Mountain Meadows Massacre," p. 122, 131.) "Huntington's mission to the Shoshonis exacerbated the violence that had already set the northern road to California ablaze from City of Rocks to the Humboldt River. By early September horrific accounts 'of the almost total destruction of an immigrant train, by the Indians,' filled California's newspapers. Indians had attacked a small train at Stony Point, a black man named Scott reported, and killed five men and a child. A woman was 'shot in several places, scalped, and left for dead.' Remarkably, she had survived, and her head almost healed. Emigrants had no doubt as to who was behind these assaults. On reaching California, overlanders recounted 'many sad evidences of outrage and murder' that they swore implicated the Saints. For three hundred miles emigrants had to run 'the gauntlet of Indian attacks and Mormon treachery,' Richeson Abbott complained. His party was ambushed at City of Rocks, and he was 'satisfied the attack was led by Mormons, as he had heard them cursing in regular Mormon slang, and calling out to them to get out of the country, as they had no business there.' The Saints boasted they would kill them all. Panicked reports claimed hundreds of emigrants had been killed. For the press in California, it was 'an undoubted fact that the Mormons were at the head of most of [the] outrages, and instigated the Indians to commit the murders.' Louis Fine said white men supposed to be Mormons led an Indian attack on Samuel Beller and B. Redman of Arkansas near City of Rocks. For the next three hundred miles they were fired on or attacked almost every day. The emigrants 'all appeared to have more fear of the Mormons than of the Indians.' Their general feeling was that 'the Mormons led the Indians in their attacks and murders.' Angus McLeod of Arkansas left Salt Lake on September 4 with Louis Fine's train. He was attacked fifty miles from town by ten or twelve men mounted on newly shod horses. McLeod believed they were white men or Mormons. His party was assaulted again near City of Rocks, where forty or fifty Indians killed Oliver Bailey and drove off some seventy head of cattle. At Salt Lake, a man named Pierce heard 'vague declarations of a threatening character' that 'next year the overland emigrants must look out'; and it was intimated that the last trains this year might be destroyed.' A woman with the eastbound Mormon wagons evacuating Carson Valley warned, 'The last trains of this year would not get through, for they were to be cut off.' " ("Blood of the Prophets," Will Bagley, p. 93.) "A member of the Dukes train, S. B. Honea, stated 'that he passed through Great Salt Lake City on August 17, that he saw everywhere preparations for war, that the company were harassed by Indians all the way, that in southern Utah they hired Mormon guides and interpreters to the sum of $1,810, and then were robbed on the Muddy [River] of 375 head of cattle.' [George B.] Davis described the Indians who stole the cattle as having among them some with light, fine hair and blue eyes, and light streaks where they had not used sufficient paint. He gave the number of cattle taken as 326 head.....On October 17, the first members of the Duke train of emigrants arrived half-starved at San Bernardino with the Mormon theft of their cattle to add to the tale of the massacre." (Brooks, pp. 125, 126, 146.) "It was from the lips of Charley Fancher, soon after his arrival from the vicinity of the tragedy, that I heard the first story of the massacre. In his childish way he said that "some of the Indians, after the slaughter, went to the little creek, and that after washing their faces they were white men." (Josiah Gibbs, "The Mountain Meadows Massacre.")

Typically Mormons were cattle thieves, from wagon trains passing through and from the US army in Wyoming. The new governor appointed by President Buchanan to replace Young never became governor. Heavy snows in Wyoming kept the troops from getting to Salt Lake to enforce a change in power. So the Utah war never happened. And Mormons refusing to sell the food would have been a no brainer because poverty and starvation were a big problem among the Mormons in Utah territory. They really did not have much to spare. That’s another reason for the attack-all those cattle.

We have not. Did he write about MMM?

Gibbs' book is on-line. I read it over 20 years ago when I began researching the MMM.

I have owned a few copies of his MMM 1909 book. I kept the best one.... That map was conjured up by Mormons and it mislead many a truth seeker. And I have 2 copies of Kawiches Gold Mine. In it are some amazing photos of caves with gorgeous stalagtites and mites and the Mormons held polygamous marriage ceremonies in them. He says the caves are in the Grand Canyon. I have tried to find where/what they are but found nothing. Some spelunkers must know.

There is actually a giant barn in the Hyrum, Utah area that had it’s hardware made from melting down of the metal from 18 stolen wagons of the Fancher party.

What about Mormon homes, property and lives lost as result of being driven out of the Country. When can we expect compensation for that? There is no excuse for what happened at Mountain Meadows, but what happened to an innocent group of pioneers from Arkansas, happened to an innocent group of Mormon pioneers time and again and there are two sides to every story.

Lived in Cache Valley for years- had no idea!

@@jamesbaldwin7676 What about it? Deciding to move because locals will no longer tolerate the destruction of their printing presses or polygamy and Smith's declaration of Marshall Law in Illinois isn't comparable. I don't recall the locals in Navoo storming into Mormon homes, dressed as Indigenous peoples, to slaughter entire families and steal children... Smith was the only one dismantling families in Illinois. You're not a persecuted people... your founders were PROSECUTED. There's a difference.

@@jamesbaldwin7676 The Mormons were driven out of every area they lived in because of their CRIMES---not because of any religious beliefs. The Mormons were NEVER "innocent" in any incident of alleged "persecution".

When church president Gordon B. Hinckley dedicated the new memorial in 1999, he said this: " This is not a time of recrimination or the assigning of blame. No one can explain what happened in these meadows 142 years ago. We may speculate, but we do not know. We do not understand it. We cannot comprehend it...I sit in the chair that Brigham Young occupied as President of the Church at the time of the tragedy. I have read very much of the history of what occurred here. There is no question in my mind that he was opposed to what happened. Had there been a faster means of communication, it never would have happened and history would have been different. That which we have done here must never be construed as an acknowledgement on the part of the Church of any complicity in the occurrences of that fateful and tragic day." Critics believe that the church's lawyers had Hinckley say that because if he admitted institutional responsibility, the victims' descendants would use that confession to sue the church. Hinckley's other remarks were completely disingenuous, because we understand EXACTLY why the incident happened, and we know that Brigham Young personally approved and plotted the attack on the wagon train.

@@randyjordan5521 Well said - thank you. I certainly disagree with Hinkley when he said "no one can explain what happened here..." LDS has never been able to out-run history and logic. We know the truth of the matter and understand the reprehensible conduct of the mormons, that's not the question. The question becomes what does this 'church' plan to do for the victims' families? They have amassed over 100 billion dollars for what?

@@nerdnul As I wrote above, the LDS church will not do jack-shit for those people, because if they do so, they will be admitting that the MMM was the product of the institutional church. LDS church leaders portray their past prophets as being guided by God in every footstep. If the leaders admit that Brigham Young plotted and approved the MMM, that will harm their image.

Every time a lawsuit is brought, when the judge quits laughing, it is unceremoniously dismissed. Reparations? Are you that woke? wow

Did you even watch this? It’s amazing how people will make comments without even watching what they are commenting on. Next time watch before commenting.

Truth is way more interesting than fiction. Learning about REAL Mormon history from the thousands of archives is like opening Pandora’s box…it never ends.

I've seen this same response to alot of videos that anything to do w mormonism. Why are the members so hostile to ppl who may just be watching a video and know nothing of that religion 🤔. This actually happened and the church has acknowledged it what's the issue ?

Hahn's Mill was most likely precipitated by our LDS Mormon attacks on both dissenting Mormons and none Mormons. For one example; Nauvoo was a wild lawless open town with Joseph Smith. Counterfeiters, thieves, murderers both Mormons & none Mormons flocked there for to escape the law, because Joseph Smith as Mayor, passed a law that no one could be arrested without his permission. Joseph Smith also was raising a Militia Army to keep County, State and Federal Agents out of Nauvoo (and to try to overthrow the Federal Govt). There is an island across the river from Nauvoo that a Colonel Davenport lived. Mormons did a home invasion on him and killed him and his wife and stold their belongings, and fled back to Nauvoo for safety from the law. Joseph Smith had always advocated stealing from none Mormons and he had first rights to the loot. Study the history. :.

There is no other side when it comes to murder. Rebecca’s revered ancestor was the senior member of the high council in Cedar City and voted to go forward with the massacre (that does not make her on his side). His role in the massacre was to hunt down on horseback the men and women who escaped the initial slaughter and shoot and club them as they ran for their lives. He remained a Mormon for the rest of his life and was a revered member of the community. The men, women and children who were murdered at Mountain Meadows had nothing to do with Haun’s Mill and therefore this was was not a tit for tat and Haun’s Mill should never be used as a justification for this horrible act. We appreciate your comment and we will look at doing an separate episode on Haun’s Mill but understand we will cover the entire climate of the area that led to Haun’s Mill including the Mormon leader sanctioned Danite attacks on the Missourian’s that created the environment that led to attack. In the Haun’s Mill case the Mormon’s were also attacking the Missourians which is something the church conveniently leaves out when they tell the story. Again thank you for watching.

@@mormonishpodcast1036 Oh my goodness I was not trying to justify the horrible massacre. There was no justification for that act of evil cowardice. I do realize there were a lot of bad feelings and a lot of raw emotions because of things that were done to the Mormons but not even that could ever justify what was done. I was saying that MMM was one side of the story and Haun's Mill was from the opposite direction or as I had put it "side". I am very well aware that Rebecca is not on her ancestor's side and I didn't think that I had implied that. I am coming from the point of view that there has been a lot said about MMM and other bad Mormons acts but not so much is said about Haun's Mill and other acts against the Mormons. I think it would be good if you do a video on Haun's Mill. The good the bad and the ugly. But remember that no matter what the climate in the area was, it is not justifiable what was done to these men, women and children any more than it was for what was done at MMM. No matter which side of the coin you are looking at, evil is evil.

@@mormonishpodcast1036 Mormons were attacking at Haun's Mill. Liar!

That would be a great episode as well we are going to put that on our list to do and we understand you see MMM as an evil event as well. I think we are on the same side on this and you are right that the Mormon War, Haun’s Mill and Parley P Pratt’s murder by the husband of a women he claimed as his wife all contributed to the story of MMM and deserves to be told. Thank you for the suggestion and we’re glad you enjoy the podcast!

So, the 120 men, women, and children got their just deserts for carrying all their worldly goods across sacred Mormon territory. Goods that were stolen by the Godly Mormons? And 17 children were stolen & intended to be raised by the Mormon murderers. That all just part of the "war" that these immigrants weren't aware they were participating in? Why did these Godly men hide who they were and attempt to blame Indians? THEY KNEW WHAT THEY WERE DOING WAS UNJUST and feared retribution not from God, but from men and the law.

That is true they all played a role in MMM but it is surprising how little people know about the circumstances that led to Haun’s Mill. Again there is two sides to that story as well and it should not be used to justify this massacre of innocent people who had nothing to do with incident at Haun’s Mill.

@@mormonishpodcast1036 No justification what-so-ever but the Nation and the Mormons were on the brink of war and the Arkansas immigrants were threatening to join the Federal troops if the Mormons refused to resupply them. The way they were massacred was the same way Mormons were murdered at Haun's Mill and the same way that John D Lee lost his young son. BTW, John was forced to sit on his own open coffin while being shot by firing squad. Neither Mormons or Gentiles were willing to touch his dead body.

I'm sure you're unaware that the Haun's Mill massacre occurred because the Mormon Danite band had just raided and pillaged the non-Mormon towns of Millport, Gallatin, and Grinder's Fork. Other local non-Mormon villagers were warned that the Danites were about to attack their area as well. So, a local, unauthorized militia band attacked the Haun's Mill settlement in retaliation for the Danite raids. Of course, it was horrible for them to kill the 17 Mormons, but you need to understand that the entire conflict was caused by Joseph Smith's agenda: "The plan of said Smith, the prophet, is to take this state, and he professes to his people to intend taking the United States and ultimately the whole world. This is the belief of the church, and my own opinion of the Prophet's plans and intentions.....I have head the prophet say that he should yet tread down his enemies and walk over their dead bodies; that if he was let alone, he would be a second Mahomet to this generation, and that he would make it one gore of blood from the Rocky Mountains to the Atlantic Ocean; that like Mahomet, whose motto, in treating for peace, was 'The Alcoran or the Sword,' so should it eventually be with us, 'Joseph Smith or the sword.' These last statements were made during the last summer. The number of armed men at Adam-ondi-Ahman was between three and four hundred." (Affidavit of Thomas B. Marsh, "Correspondence, Orders, Etc.," Missouri, 1841.)

@@randyjordan5521 I'm aware of no such thing and according to Wikipedia, Haun's Mill was the result of the battle of Crooked River where the Missouri Militia shot and killed 4 Mormon men, while the Mormons injured one Militia man (viciously with a sword.) Upon hearing exaggerated accounts. the Governor called for more militiamen and issued an "Extermination Order" making it legal to. "exterminate" (kill) Mormons. After that it was open war. Whatever Joseph Smith said was certainly in response to the intolerable situation in Missouri. But neither Joseph Smith or any Church leaders, have ever advocated armed conflict with anybody. They did however, preach and teach self-defense. Joseph Smith was even the general of a Mormon Militia (a fully armed and trained army) which also, never killed anyone. And the affidavit you're quoting, was from an excommunicated member, an avowed critic of Joseph Smith, as well as an active anti-Mormon.

@@jamesbaldwin7676 You need to read a little further than Wikipedia. Here are the actual facts as stated by the participants and historians: "One of the attackers, Charles Ashby, a state legislator from Livingston, said the Missourians attacked because Mormon dissenters fleeing into Livingston warned them that the Saints at Haun's Mill were planning an invasion of their county. Local citizens decided they must act to prevent Mormon soldiers from overrunning Livingston County as they had done Daviess. 'We thought it best to attack them first,' Ashby told fellow legislators. 'What we did was in our own defence, and we had the right to do so.' "The Livingston troops were joined by companies from Daviess and Carroll counties, Many of the Daviess men wanted to even the score for Mormon depradations in their county. Capts. Nehemiah Comstock and William Mann, whose troops had been harassing Mormon emigrants and settlers, also brought their troops into the field." ("The 1838 Mormon War in Missouri," Stephen LeSeuer, U. of Missouri Press, pp. 163-164.) Here's what the Mormons had done to non-Mormons which enraged them to commit the Haun's Mill Massacre: "The Danites were taught to take from the Gentiles and consecrate to the Church. Nearly every person who testified at the trial against the Mormon leaders made mention of this fact. John Clemenson stated that 'it was frequently observed among the troops at Diahman that the time had come when the riches of the Gentiles should be consecrated to the Saints.' Jeremiah Myers testified that 'the consecrated property...was dealt out to those in need' by Bishop Vinson Knight." (A History of the Latter-Day Saints in Northern Missouri, p. 385-387.) "Danites struck at Gallatin and two other towns, Millport and Grinding Fork. The three onslaughts occurred simultaneously and had a crushing impact on the Missourians who were unaccustomed to Mormon resistance. When Captains Lyman Wight, David W. Patten, and Seymour Brunson rode into Far West at the head of their companies, the sight of wagonloads of plunder was offensive to a number of less aggressively inclined Saints. That night they gathered their families together and abandoned the settlement. Among the defectors were two of Joseph's most trusted followers, Thomas B. Marsh and Orson Hyde, both members of the Council of Twelve Apostles. The two men fled to nearby Richmond and blurted out everything they knew." ("Orrin Porter Rockwell," Harold Schindler, p. 54.) "The Mormons were two hundred and fifty men by the time they reached Daviess County...The bulk of the forces went out in search of the gentile opposition. They marched through three settlements, including Gallatin, repaying the Missourians in kind, looting and firing stores, homes, and barns, before their anger spent itself.....When they returned with their loot, many of their own people were appalled and frightened. Thomas B. Marsh, Brigham Young's superior as President of the Twelve, let it be known that he did not approve such retaliation, and he left the church." ("Kingdom of the Saints", Ray B. West, p. 86.) "There was much mysterious conversation in camps, as to plundering, and house-burning; so much so, that I had my own notions about it; and, on one occasion, I spoke to Mr. Smith, Jr., in the house, and told him that this course of burning houses and plundering, by the Mormon troops, would ruin us; that it could not be kept hid, and would bring the force of the state upon us; that houses would be searched, and stolen property found. Smith replied to me, in a pretty rough manner, to keep still; that I should say nothing about it; that it would discourage the men...I saw a great deal of plunder and bee-steads brought into camp; and I saw many persons, for many days, taking the honey out of them; I understood this property and plunder were placed into the hands of the bishop at Diahmon....The general teachings of the presidency were, that the kingdom they were setting up was a temporal kingdom...that the time had come when this kingdom was to be set up by forcible means, if necessary. It was taught, that the time had come when the riches of the Gentiles were to be consecrated to the true Israel." (Testimony of George M. Hinkle, "Senate Document 189".) "Smith replied, the time had come when he should resist all law...I heard J. Smith remark, there was a store at Gallatin, and a grocery at Millport; and in the morning after the conversation between Smith and Wight about resisting the law, a plan of operations was agreed on, which was: that Captain Fearnaught, who was present, should take a company of 100 men, or more, and go to Gallatin, and take it that day; to take the goods out of Gallatin, bring them to Diahmon, and burn the store...On the same day, in the evening, I saw both these companies return; the foot company had some plunder..." (Testimony of W. W. Phelps, "Senate Document 189").