Ep67: Is There Shrinkage? LDS Attendance Numbers Debunked with Simon Southerton 

That is such a great point!!

They won't let you record the services like other churches, what does THAT tell you?!?

@@samsmom400 Well, that I understand. I grew up in the Church. They believe that meetings are relatively special/sacred. But, I do agree that if you are willing to say something, it should be viewable for all to review.

@@krismurphy7711 I'm ExMo. I went back once after I left the "church" maybe about 8 years later and just after I had surrendered my life to Jesus. It was really weird. I actually took notes. Each speaker talked about the reason why "we" were put on this earth was to baptize the dead. It was in a ward in CA, not the one I escaped from in FL. It felt so godless and empty. While it seemed familiar, I couldn't believe that I used to listen to all of that and think it was true. "Sacred, not secret", I remember. No, the Lord wants EVERYONE to come to Him. There's nothing too sacred for His children, that really doesn't make any sense. Everyone is His creation, but only those who believe in Jesus Christ are His children. "Believe" has a completely different meaning then most people know and understand. If you are in the Mormon "church", you don't "believe".

@@samsmom400 I find myself defending The Church and TBMs from time to time…this will be one of them. Good, active Mormons are good Christians. They just happen to be burdened with a lot of add ons which really dont conflict with Christianity in making them less Christian. The Temple Ceremonies I think are a complete fabrication. I hate the idea of secret handshakes and passwords and ridicule the very idea, BUT that is an add on. All Members, as you know, accept baptism and take the sacrament each week. This is 100% Christian and baptism is one of the few To-Dos that Jesus did. They do focus on “work for the dead.” But that is 100% charitable and does mirror baptism at least. Overall, Mormons DO more than most Christians. Is it necessary or from real revelation, I don’t believe so.

Evidence for Book of Mormon in ancient America- none Evidence showing Book of Mormon is a 19th century religious fiction below: No wheat, no barley, no goats, no steel found in the Americas, no metal smelting furnaces, no metal armor, no temples, no steel swords, no skeletons of these warriors, no graves, no cities (it would be impossible for a city the size of Zarahemla to leave no trace), no cattle, no chariot parts, no Nephite coins (listed in book of Alma as being used for a thousand years), no Jewish relics from supposed jews, no metal plates like Nephites supposedly had, no artifacts whatsoever, no Nephite "reformed Egyptian" writings; and no evidence the book of Mormon "prophets" ever existed. There is zero archaeological, anthropological, topological, linguistic, or DNA evidence to support the Book of Mormon. It would be impossible for highly advanced civilizations (Jaredites, Nephites) with millions of people to have vanished off the face of the earth. The whole face of the land had become covered with buildings” (Mormon 1:7) “Two million Jaredites slain” (Ether 15:2) 38 cities are catalogued in the Book of Mormon, along with iron, steel, brass, metal swords, breast-plates, shields, armor, or chariots. Yet, not one item mentioned in the Book of Mormon has ever been discovered in America. The Book of Mormon speaks of sheep, swine, goats, wheat, barley, silk, and elephants-even though they weren’t brought to America until centuries later by Europeans in post-Columbian times. Again we see that Joseph Smith was thinking about things in his current day as he was fabricating the Book of Mormon. CAN WE TRUST OUR HEARTS as to book of Mormon since there is no evidence? Maroni chapter 10:4 says: "he will manifest the truth of it unto you" But: THE BIBLE WARNS YOU about trusting your own heart. Jeremiah 17:9 "the heart is deceitful above all things". Proverbs 28:26 "He that trusteth in his own heart is a fool." Please don't be a fool. The entire belief system and premise of Mormonism is based on a false claim the Bible was corrupted and "plain and precious parts" were removed by early Christian translators sometime after the apostles had all died. This is a very dangerous claim to make against the word of God, especially since God promised us his word would never pass away and would be with us forever (Isaiah 40:8; Psalms 100:5; Matthew 16:18, 24:35; 1 Peter 1:23-25). An Objective Test of the Bible and Book of Mormon The Claim: In the Book of Mormon, the prophet Nephi has a vision the Bible was corrupted after the 12 apostles preached it and after the formation of the “great and abominable church” (1 Nephi 13:26-29). Most Mormons believe this to be the Catholic Church which was formed early in the 4th century. Nephi claims this church was founded by the Devil to lead souls to hell (1 Nephi 14:3). So let’s objectively examine both the Bible and the Book of Mormon to be fair and test if any have errors. Bible: The earliest Dead Sea Scrolls have been historically dated by three different dating techniques to as early as 350 BC. Included in this discovery was the Great Isaiah Scroll, which is the oldest known complete copy of the Book of Isaiah and is dated to approximately 200 BC. Study the dead sea scrolls which are over 2,000 years old and see if they have Joseph Smith's uncorrupted version. They should if Joseph Smith was correct and the bible had been corrupted over time but, no they do not. They are the same today as they were over 2,100 years ago with only minor spelling or punctuation differences. Joseph Smith was wrong. The bible had not been corrupted. “You are my witnesses,” declares the Lord, “and my servant whom I have chosen, that you may know and believe me and understand that I am he. Before me no god was formed, nor shall there be any after me.” (Isaiah 43:10) If Mormonism is true, then God could not make the claim that there were no gods before him, for he was just a man at one point; nor could he claim that no gods would come after him, for that is the goal of every member of the LDS church. The new testament has not been corrupted either. Take for example John 1:1 a very important verse than Smith changed to make Jesus a created being. A papyri known as the Bodmer Papyri which is almost 1900 years old of the book of John. (this papyri was written not long after the apostle John would have died and it shows joseph smith changed the book of John, not that it got corrupted later as he alleged) John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God. ΕΝ ΑΡΧΗ ΗΝ Ο ΛΟΓΟΣ ΚΑΙ Ο ΛΟΓΟΣ ΗΝ ΠΡΟΣ ΤΟΝ ΘΕΟΝ ΚΑΙ ΘΕΟΣ ΗΝ Ο ΛΟΓΟΣ I post this in love. The manuscript and archeological evidence for the bible is the greatest of anything in antiquity. I pray that you know the real Jesus, real peace, love and true salvation. "But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed." Galatians 1 One is a Jesus who is not eternal and was the spirit brother of lucifer in pre-existence & a God the Farther who was once a man - an exulted man. The other is the eternal Word, the Alpha and Omega- Jesus, by whom created all things, seen and unseen. And a God the Father who says the He alone is God, nor any god before, not any god after. There is no way for the Biblical account of Jesus to arrive at the account of the Book of Mormon. Mormons have been taught that the bible was corrupted. I hope to open eyes that God is much greater than the humanoid that you have been told about. He is the creator of all creation not just this solar system. Jesus said all scripture shall not fade away but many wolves and false prophets will come and try to add to the word. It pains my heart to see mormons fall for the lie that Satan first told Adam and Eve that we can be like the most high. Genesis 3 Joseph Smith sold the same lie. Another lie, a Temple like Solomon's Temple built in America does not exist. 100% impossibility as we would have some remains and there were no Levites in the Americas to serve in the temple so it would have been against Jewish law which book of mormon says were kept. If you study the bible you know this. Mormon's own the Hill Cumorah yet they do not excavate it because they know there is nothing there from previous digs. An excavation would be a grand embarrassment and would prove the religion is a lie. It did not happen. Look at Mormon Chapter 8 the evidence for it does not exist and evidence would exist if it happened. Why did Joseph Smith condone polygamy as an ordinance from God (Doctrine and Covenants 132) when the Book of Mormon had already condemned the practice (Jacob 1:15, 2:24)? Why did Brigham Young teach that Adam is “our Father and our God” when both the Bible and the Book of Mormon (Mormon 9:12) say that Adam is a creation of God (Journal of Discourses, Apr. 9, 1852, vol.1, p.50)? If Brigham Young was a true prophet, how come one of your later prophets overturned his declaration which stated that the black man could never hold the priesthood in the LDS Church until after the resurrection of all other races (Journal of Discourses, Dec. 12, 1854, 2:142-143)?

How did you get to meet General Authorities?

Know the Jesus of the Bible and know his peace instead of the works doctrine of Mormonism where you are trying to become a god. Bizarre as we are all broken sinners in need of a savior. “…To a professional historian, for example, the recent translation of the Joseph Smith papyri may well present the potentially most damaging case against Mormonism since its foundation. Yet the ‘Powers That Be’ at the Church Historian’s Office should take comfort in the fact that almost total lack of response to this translation is an uncanny proof of Frank Kermode’s observation that even the most devastating acts of disconfirmation will have no effect whatever on true believers. Perhaps an even more telling response is that of the ‘liberals,’ or cultural Mormons. After the Joseph Smith’s papyri affair, one might have well expected a mass exodus of these people from the Church. Yet none has occurred. Why? Because cultural Mormons, of course, do not believe in the historical authenticity of Mormon scriptures in the first place. So there is nothing to disconfirm.

@@brettpinion4233 tell us about yourself ? Are you saved ? If so by the speaking of tongues or not ???

​@@mikelawlor1533 John 3:3 Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again[b] he cannot see the kingdom of God.” 4 Nicodemus said to him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born?” 5 Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 Yes, I am born again and trust in Jesus for my salvation. I pray that all my words show love for all and I repent of the times they do not. 1 Cor. 12:30 Do all have gifts of healings? Do all speak with tongues? Do all interpret? 1 Corinthians 13:1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. The human body is made up of many parts, all with different functions, yet there is a basic unity throughout the body. So it is in the church which is Christ’s body. All believers, without distinction, are introduced into and united in that body through the baptism of the Spirit. The same Spirit dwells within each one (12-13). Many parts make up the body, and all are necessary for its proper functioning. Those without more obvious gifts should not think there is no place for them in the church. In the body of Christ, as in the human body, each part has its own special task (14-20). God has so designed the body that no matter how important one part may be, it cannot function properly without dependence upon all the other parts (21). People with more obvious gifts should not look down on others. Certain parts of the body may appear at first to be less important, but the body cannot do without them (22). Other parts of the body are less presentable, but they are the parts we clothe more attractively. Just as there is harmony between the various parts of the body, so there should be in the church (23-25). In addition, there should be unity. When one part of the body suffers, the whole body suffers; when one part is honored, the whole is honored. There is no competition (26). It is clear, then, that all Christians are part of the body but their gifts vary widely, from the more important gifts to the less important (27-28). All gifts are necessary, but not everybody can do everything (29-30). Christians should desire the higher gifts, but there is something greater than even the highest gift that all, whether great or small, can have, and that is love. Paul will explain what he means in the next chapter (31).

Agreed. I think reported statistics are probably nicer than reality.

Interesting....

Agreed! Simon is just wonderful! We hope to have him on again!

Evidence for Book of Mormon in ancient America- none Evidence showing Book of Mormon is a 19th century religious fiction below: No wheat, no barley, no goats, no steel found in the Americas, no metal smelting furnaces, no metal armor, no temples, no steel swords, no skeletons of these warriors, no graves, no cities (it would be impossible for a city the size of Zarahemla to leave no trace), no cattle, no chariot parts, no Nephite coins (listed in book of Alma as being used for a thousand years), no Jewish relics from supposed jews, no metal plates like Nephites supposedly had, no artifacts whatsoever, no Nephite "reformed Egyptian" writings; and no evidence the book of Mormon "prophets" ever existed. There is zero archaeological, anthropological, topological, linguistic, or DNA evidence to support the Book of Mormon. It would be impossible for highly advanced civilizations (Jaredites, Nephites) with millions of people to have vanished off the face of the earth. The whole face of the land had become covered with buildings” (Mormon 1:7) “Two million Jaredites slain” (Ether 15:2) 38 cities are catalogued in the Book of Mormon, along with iron, steel, brass, metal swords, breast-plates, shields, armor, or chariots. Yet, not one item mentioned in the Book of Mormon has ever been discovered in America. The Book of Mormon speaks of sheep, swine, goats, wheat, barley, silk, and elephants-even though they weren’t brought to America until centuries later by Europeans in post-Columbian times. Again we see that Joseph Smith was thinking about things in his current day as he was fabricating the Book of Mormon. CAN WE TRUST OUR HEARTS as to book of Mormon since there is no evidence? Maroni chapter 10:4 says: "he will manifest the truth of it unto you" But: THE BIBLE WARNS YOU about trusting your own heart. Jeremiah 17:9 "the heart is deceitful above all things". Proverbs 28:26 "He that trusteth in his own heart is a fool." Please don't be a fool. The entire belief system and premise of Mormonism is based on a false claim the Bible was corrupted and "plain and precious parts" were removed by early Christian translators sometime after the apostles had all died. This is a very dangerous claim to make against the word of God, especially since God promised us his word would never pass away and would be with us forever (Isaiah 40:8; Psalms 100:5; Matthew 16:18, 24:35; 1 Peter 1:23-25). An Objective Test of the Bible and Book of Mormon The Claim: In the Book of Mormon, the prophet Nephi has a vision the Bible was corrupted after the 12 apostles preached it and after the formation of the “great and abominable church” (1 Nephi 13:26-29). Most Mormons believe this to be the Catholic Church which was formed early in the 4th century. Nephi claims this church was founded by the Devil to lead souls to hell (1 Nephi 14:3). So let’s objectively examine both the Bible and the Book of Mormon to be fair and test if any have errors. Bible: The earliest Dead Sea Scrolls have been historically dated by three different dating techniques to as early as 350 BC. Included in this discovery was the Great Isaiah Scroll, which is the oldest known complete copy of the Book of Isaiah and is dated to approximately 200 BC. Study the dead sea scrolls which are over 2,000 years old and see if they have Joseph Smith's uncorrupted version. They should if Joseph Smith was correct and the bible had been corrupted over time but, no they do not. They are the same today as they were over 2,100 years ago with only minor spelling or punctuation differences. Joseph Smith was wrong. The bible had not been corrupted. “You are my witnesses,” declares the Lord, “and my servant whom I have chosen, that you may know and believe me and understand that I am he. Before me no god was formed, nor shall there be any after me.” (Isaiah 43:10) If Mormonism is true, then God could not make the claim that there were no gods before him, for he was just a man at one point; nor could he claim that no gods would come after him, for that is the goal of every member of the LDS church. The new testament has not been corrupted either. Take for example John 1:1 a very important verse than Smith changed to make Jesus a created being. A papyri known as the Bodmer Papyri which is almost 1900 years old of the book of John. (this papyri was written not long after the apostle John would have died and it shows joseph smith changed the book of John, not that it got corrupted later as he alleged) John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God. ΕΝ ΑΡΧΗ ΗΝ Ο ΛΟΓΟΣ ΚΑΙ Ο ΛΟΓΟΣ ΗΝ ΠΡΟΣ ΤΟΝ ΘΕΟΝ ΚΑΙ ΘΕΟΣ ΗΝ Ο ΛΟΓΟΣ I post this in love. The manuscript and archeological evidence for the bible is the greatest of anything in antiquity. I pray that you know the real Jesus, real peace, love and true salvation. "But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed." Galatians 1 One is a Jesus who is not eternal and was the spirit brother of lucifer in pre-existence & a God the Farther who was once a man - an exulted man. The other is the eternal Word, the Alpha and Omega- Jesus, by whom created all things, seen and unseen. And a God the Father who says the He alone is God, nor any god before, not any god after. There is no way for the Biblical account of Jesus to arrive at the account of the Book of Mormon. Mormons have been taught that the bible was corrupted. I hope to open eyes that God is much greater than the humanoid that you have been told about. He is the creator of all creation not just this solar system. Jesus said all scripture shall not fade away but many wolves and false prophets will come and try to add to the word. It pains my heart to see mormons fall for the lie that Satan first told Adam and Eve that we can be like the most high. Genesis 3 Joseph Smith sold the same lie. Another lie, a Temple like Solomon's Temple built in America does not exist. 100% impossibility as we would have some remains and there were no Levites in the Americas to serve in the temple so it would have been against Jewish law which book of mormon says were kept. If you study the bible you know this. Mormon's own the Hill Cumorah yet they do not excavate it because they know there is nothing there from previous digs. An excavation would be a grand embarrassment and would prove the religion is a lie. It did not happen. Look at Mormon Chapter 8 the evidence for it does not exist and evidence would exist if it happened. Why did Joseph Smith condone polygamy as an ordinance from God (Doctrine and Covenants 132) when the Book of Mormon had already condemned the practice (Jacob 1:15, 2:24)? Why did Brigham Young teach that Adam is “our Father and our God” when both the Bible and the Book of Mormon (Mormon 9:12) say that Adam is a creation of God (Journal of Discourses, Apr. 9, 1852, vol.1, p.50)? If Brigham Young was a true prophet, how come one of your later prophets overturned his declaration which stated that the black man could never hold the priesthood in the LDS Church until after the resurrection of all other races (Journal of Discourses, Dec. 12, 1854, 2:142-143)?

Hahaha 🤣

Oh I’m sorry. Tragic for you and your family. Good that you gained insight and some healthy distance even though there’s no solving to these problems ..with fundamental disagreements on what matters most in life.

If someone has an addiction of any kind, we have to just take a step back and, sadly leave them to it. We can be kind, but we have to take care of ourselves.

Her “fix!” 😅 A fine word for folks who are so invested in the church…something that can't be proven. Sometimes, it can't even rationally be discussed with others.

Exactly. I have MANY extended family members that are Mormon in name only. Baptized at 8 and undoubtedly still on the rolls but haven't had anything to do with Mormonism since they were kids. This includes two of my three siblings, both my parents, and at least 10 cousins and their kids that were baptized at 8 because their grandma and grandpa insisted. All completely moved on and not Mormon in any way, but still counted as part of that oh so impressive 17 million number.

The way to go is to remove their tax exempt status in the US. this would be it.

Love the anecdotal evidence! I admit, every Sunday when I'm driving around I check for the number of cars in the LDS churches I drive by! Thanks for watching!

I check their parking lots, they aren't even half full. Years ago (preCOVID) cars used to be parked in the street.

I think that is telling. Are people converting to the church or western culture? Great insight!

Simon is great and we hope to have him on again!!!

It's just too bad that his claims as far as the DNA evidence against the Book of Mormon has been disproven. 😥

@@mormonishpodcast1036 if you do you might want to have an objective critical thinking person double-check his claims before you have him on again. 😉 You know just to make sure that he's not sharing information that is a decade out of date like with the DNA evidence.🙂

​​@@theatreguy1850Absolutely wrong. There is no substantive evidence the Pre-Columbian inhabitants of the Americas were descended from settlers from Europe and/or the Levant. There is no archaeological evidence for sustained (beyond the short term occupation of the Norse in Maritime Canada) old world to new world contact or settlement before Columbus. Finally, the concept that refugees from the Levant created the New World's complex cultures is racist because it implies Native People's were intellectually incapable of creating complex societies on their own.

@@timhazeltine3256 I am talking about his claim in the 2000s that the Native American DNA is 99.6% East Asian.This evidence was used to try and disprove The Book of Mormon by saying that there was no Israel DNA in the Native Americans. But this was later disproved and we now know that a third of the Native American DNA is from Europe and the Middle East. I'm not exactly sure what your comment is talking about but maybe you could explain it a little further. 😊

I agree 100%. I have deep mormon heritage and can testify as to the mental illness and psychopathy rampant in my family lines from mormon generational trauma. I revel in the church's decline because it gives Utah a better chance to heal and hopefully better separation between church and state here. Outer darkness is a great position from which to explore the universe, I look forward to it!

There will be a lot of us in outer darkness with Simon but one things for sure, we’ll all know where Rebecca is because of those bright shiny teeth and that big bright smile!!! Thanks for the comment!

That musical really resonated with me as the whole post Mormon experience! Thanks for the comment!

How long ago was this?

@@jamestrek2570 We visited there seven months ago.

That's good news!

This is wonderful news. And ' self- reported adherents' might not actually even attend the church. Attendence could be even less!

@@Themanyfacesofego I know that where I live, the parking lot that used to be full-isn't. It has a scattering of cars.

Actually, that’s a pretty good idea! The government gives tax credits for child daycare why couldn’t the church give tithing credit for stay at home moms? Of course I think they might stop encouraging such large families if they did! Lol. Thanks for the great comment!

They would only gain members who are draining funds instead contributing funds. That is not a formula for success... There is already a very large number of people who join in developing countries because they recognize the benefits and resources available for those affiliated with a very wealthy western organization and have very little if any interest in attending and contributing

​@@jessedewellit takes a lot of spending to drain the funds of BILLIONS of dollars.

Keep up the good work!

Part of that is to launder money to real estate and their own construction companies.

@@WatchingwaitingG2D all you do is criticize and don’t bring anything of substance. he’s right you’re wrong. They launder money and are collapsing as we speak.

@@WatchingwaitingG2D you’re not even original. It’s well documented JS is a charlatan - he even cried and apologized to his first wife’s dad he’s a fraud and can’t see/divine anything out or rocks. But of course you can’t I guess this needs repeating to you : rocks don’t talk.

​@@WatchingwaitingG2DYour comments are contrary to the Christian concept of humility.

It gets the numbers up, and shows diversity

There's a video clip out there from several years ago in which Gordon B. Hinckley (IIRC) was in a meeting where he said that the church gets a lot of its growth numbers from third-world areas like Africa, but get very little tithing. I think it was the book "The Mormon Corporate Empire", published back in the '80s, which estimated that the church gets 92% of its revenue from the US and Canada. That money funds the new buildings and missionary efforts in third world areas.

I wonder how the situation with the coup in Niger has affected missionary work, church operations

The church has come for their gold fillings, tithes, and required offerings. Strengthen God’s children through unnecessary sacrifice and suffering. Why does this feel wicked to me? Every time I look to the prophets, it’s SO much worse than I thought.

The first thing an increase in temples does is to encourage non Mormons to look up the temple ceremony online (channel NewNameNoah). And then laugh about the "bakery convention". 😂

Ha ha! Always do what Simon says!!! He is great we want to get him on again!

That’s interesting. Impressed that you could share such pivotal change in this concise comment. Your cognitive dissonance has resolved, yes?

Jesus is real. He really is. He's a relationship not a religion. I'm exmo and now I'm a follower of Jesus Christ. I don't go to church, but I watch different pastors on RU-vid. Jack Hibbs is good, he's got a great sense of humor.

A lot of the church's growth over the last few decades can be attributed to the fall of the Soviet Union and other oppressive regimes, and American religions being able to move into those areas.

Wow and that was in the 70’s. Must be much lower than that now so that supports the cellphone numbers. Thanks for commenting!

No but they do keep you on the rolls until you are 110 years old if they don’t know where you are so that is a lot of dead people on the rolls! Thanks for watching!

​@@mormonishpodcast1036Well, that strategy could further enhance membership figures by raising the threshold to 150 years of age.

Glad you enjoyed it!

I hadn’t considered that. Do you know the decline in the general population? It would be interesting to compare that to the decline in the church’s numbers to see if they parallel each other.

Evidence for Book of Mormon in ancient America- none Evidence showing Book of Mormon is a 19th century religious fiction below: No wheat, no barley, no goats, no steel found in the Americas, no metal smelting furnaces, no metal armor, no temples, no steel swords, no skeletons of these warriors, no graves, no cities (it would be impossible for a city the size of Zarahemla to leave no trace), no cattle, no chariot parts, no Nephite coins (listed in book of Alma as being used for a thousand years), no Jewish relics from supposed jews, no metal plates like Nephites supposedly had, no artifacts whatsoever, no Nephite "reformed Egyptian" writings; and no evidence the book of Mormon "prophets" ever existed. There is zero archaeological, anthropological, topological, linguistic, or DNA evidence to support the Book of Mormon. It would be impossible for highly advanced civilizations (Jaredites, Nephites) with millions of people to have vanished off the face of the earth. The whole face of the land had become covered with buildings” (Mormon 1:7) “Two million Jaredites slain” (Ether 15:2) 38 cities are catalogued in the Book of Mormon, along with iron, steel, brass, metal swords, breast-plates, shields, armor, or chariots. Yet, not one item mentioned in the Book of Mormon has ever been discovered in America. The Book of Mormon speaks of sheep, swine, goats, wheat, barley, silk, and elephants-even though they weren’t brought to America until centuries later by Europeans in post-Columbian times. Again we see that Joseph Smith was thinking about things in his current day as he was fabricating the Book of Mormon. CAN WE TRUST OUR HEARTS as to book of Mormon since there is no evidence? Maroni chapter 10:4 says: "he will manifest the truth of it unto you" But: THE BIBLE WARNS YOU about trusting your own heart. Jeremiah 17:9 "the heart is deceitful above all things". Proverbs 28:26 "He that trusteth in his own heart is a fool." Please don't be a fool. The entire belief system and premise of Mormonism is based on a false claim the Bible was corrupted and "plain and precious parts" were removed by early Christian translators sometime after the apostles had all died. This is a very dangerous claim to make against the word of God, especially since God promised us his word would never pass away and would be with us forever (Isaiah 40:8; Psalms 100:5; Matthew 16:18, 24:35; 1 Peter 1:23-25). An Objective Test of the Bible and Book of Mormon The Claim: In the Book of Mormon, the prophet Nephi has a vision the Bible was corrupted after the 12 apostles preached it and after the formation of the “great and abominable church” (1 Nephi 13:26-29). Most Mormons believe this to be the Catholic Church which was formed early in the 4th century. Nephi claims this church was founded by the Devil to lead souls to hell (1 Nephi 14:3). So let’s objectively examine both the Bible and the Book of Mormon to be fair and test if any have errors. Bible: The earliest Dead Sea Scrolls have been historically dated by three different dating techniques to as early as 350 BC. Included in this discovery was the Great Isaiah Scroll, which is the oldest known complete copy of the Book of Isaiah and is dated to approximately 200 BC. Study the dead sea scrolls which are over 2,000 years old and see if they have Joseph Smith's uncorrupted version. They should if Joseph Smith was correct and the bible had been corrupted over time but, no they do not. They are the same today as they were over 2,100 years ago with only minor spelling or punctuation differences. Joseph Smith was wrong. The bible had not been corrupted. “You are my witnesses,” declares the Lord, “and my servant whom I have chosen, that you may know and believe me and understand that I am he. Before me no god was formed, nor shall there be any after me.” (Isaiah 43:10) If Mormonism is true, then God could not make the claim that there were no gods before him, for he was just a man at one point; nor could he claim that no gods would come after him, for that is the goal of every member of the LDS church. The new testament has not been corrupted either. Take for example John 1:1 a very important verse than Smith changed to make Jesus a created being. A papyri known as the Bodmer Papyri which is almost 1900 years old of the book of John. (this papyri was written not long after the apostle John would have died and it shows joseph smith changed the book of John, not that it got corrupted later as he alleged) John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God. ΕΝ ΑΡΧΗ ΗΝ Ο ΛΟΓΟΣ ΚΑΙ Ο ΛΟΓΟΣ ΗΝ ΠΡΟΣ ΤΟΝ ΘΕΟΝ ΚΑΙ ΘΕΟΣ ΗΝ Ο ΛΟΓΟΣ I post this in love. The manuscript and archeological evidence for the bible is the greatest of anything in antiquity. I pray that you know the real Jesus, real peace, love and true salvation. "But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed." Galatians 1 One is a Jesus who is not eternal and was the spirit brother of lucifer in pre-existence & a God the Farther who was once a man - an exulted man. The other is the eternal Word, the Alpha and Omega- Jesus, by whom created all things, seen and unseen. And a God the Father who says the He alone is God, nor any god before, not any god after. There is no way for the Biblical account of Jesus to arrive at the account of the Book of Mormon. Mormons have been taught that the bible was corrupted. I hope to open eyes that God is much greater than the humanoid that you have been told about. He is the creator of all creation not just this solar system. Jesus said all scripture shall not fade away but many wolves and false prophets will come and try to add to the word. It pains my heart to see mormons fall for the lie that Satan first told Adam and Eve that we can be like the most high. Genesis 3 Joseph Smith sold the same lie. Another lie, a Temple like Solomon's Temple built in America does not exist. 100% impossibility as we would have some remains and there were no Levites in the Americas to serve in the temple so it would have been against Jewish law which book of mormon says were kept. If you study the bible you know this. Mormon's own the Hill Cumorah yet they do not excavate it because they know there is nothing there from previous digs. An excavation would be a grand embarrassment and would prove the religion is a lie. It did not happen. Look at Mormon Chapter 8 the evidence for it does not exist and evidence would exist if it happened. Why did Joseph Smith condone polygamy as an ordinance from God (Doctrine and Covenants 132) when the Book of Mormon had already condemned the practice (Jacob 1:15, 2:24)? Why did Brigham Young teach that Adam is “our Father and our God” when both the Bible and the Book of Mormon (Mormon 9:12) say that Adam is a creation of God (Journal of Discourses, Apr. 9, 1852, vol.1, p.50)? If Brigham Young was a true prophet, how come one of your later prophets overturned his declaration which stated that the black man could never hold the priesthood in the LDS Church until after the resurrection of all other races (Journal of Discourses, Dec. 12, 1854, 2:142-143)?

A gold mine.

They have no other choice since they won't be honest and upfront about the biggest problem in the Church. Elder Holland even lied and said the staggering growth, double digit stakes every week was the biggest problem in the Church. He just couldn't admit how pathetic the real numbers actually were.

I think there is evidence that the massive temple construction is solely done to boost Nelson's ego. There are episodes on Rameumpton ruminations (EP 57,58) discussing this. Up to Nelson, temples were built according to membership numbers in an area. Since Nelson, they are built because Nelson announced them, with no connection to objective numbers.

I live in North Idaho and there are definitely droves of Mormons leaving California for the PNW, so migration has got to play a roll in why temples are going in here.

They've gotta try to somehow give the illusion of growth.

@@Max_Johnson It's actually very similar to Scientology. Their version is called "ideal org scam", where the boss builds their "wards", which are more like classrooms, but most of them are empty. Then, everyone feels ashamed that their org is empty and not working, when in reality this is true for every org on the planet. It's all a scam.

I think they have dialed it back but they don’t correct it so most still believe that they are.

How sad.@@mormonishpodcast1036

I wonder if their skin is any whiter 😂 I’m Polynesian and I woke up long ago

Lol, I had this exact same question! Genuinely curious about this.

Sour grapes on the church’s part. So childish.

That was a unique situation arranged outside the normal "calling process". Nemo explained why on his "Mormon Stories" episode and it only put his local leaders in the UK in the best possible light.

I'm an active member of the Church. I know these videos are mostly watched by ex-mos, or anti-mormons. But I think 7 million active members is way too much. There are probably about 17 million members on the records world-wide, but I think there are roughly 3 million "active " members in the whole word.

@@fernandoramirezlugo2972 Well, if you say so I will give him the church. The benefit letter might be more. I just got my letter. Church records Maybe a month ago maybe a little longer I don’t know haven’t been paying attention. But they said get a hold of the bishop or the stake President if I wish to re-join. I’m like I went and took my name off I was planning on re-joining.

So they should be showing up in the data there. Are they? Is that where all the "missing Mormons" from all over Europe are as well? 🤣🤣

My EX sociopathic, schizophrenic, pedophile, wife-beating, con-artist, TEMPLE RECCOMMEND CARD CARRYING husband dropped dead, that was at least 3 personalities right there.

Elderly

They tried to use trumped up charges of an affair. He told this story on Mormon Stories podcast.

Simon’s book, Losing a Lost Tribe, came out in August 2004.

@@user-og2wt3le4jthat still doesn’t answer the question of why they ‘excommunicated’ him when he was already resigned.

@@sweetafton5655 That's because if they have already issued a letter for a church court or an investigation has been started, you can't get away by just resigning your membership. The church court will still take place. It sounds illogical, but then again...

@@user-og2wt3le4j did you use the word ‘logical’? Lol

Mormon god( HF ) does have a physical body so it's probable ! Dr F. Stavrakopoulou wrote [ God : An Anatomy] agrees with her interpretation of Isaiah 6:1 as God's Gigantic dick appearing in the Temple. Both R total fictional and Fringe scholarship but appropriate for Mormonism.

Evidence for Book of Mormon in ancient America- none Evidence showing Book of Mormon is a 19th century religious fiction below: No wheat, no barley, no goats, no steel found in the Americas, no metal smelting furnaces, no metal armor, no temples, no steel swords, no skeletons of these warriors, no graves, no cities (it would be impossible for a city the size of Zarahemla to leave no trace), no cattle, no chariot parts, no Nephite coins (listed in book of Alma as being used for a thousand years), no Jewish relics from supposed jews, no metal plates like Nephites supposedly had, no artifacts whatsoever, no Nephite "reformed Egyptian" writings; and no evidence the book of Mormon "prophets" ever existed. There is zero archaeological, anthropological, topological, linguistic, or DNA evidence to support the Book of Mormon. It would be impossible for highly advanced civilizations (Jaredites, Nephites) with millions of people to have vanished off the face of the earth. The whole face of the land had become covered with buildings” (Mormon 1:7) “Two million Jaredites slain” (Ether 15:2) 38 cities are catalogued in the Book of Mormon, along with iron, steel, brass, metal swords, breast-plates, shields, armor, or chariots. Yet, not one item mentioned in the Book of Mormon has ever been discovered in America. The Book of Mormon speaks of sheep, swine, goats, wheat, barley, silk, and elephants-even though they weren’t brought to America until centuries later by Europeans in post-Columbian times. Again we see that Joseph Smith was thinking about things in his current day as he was fabricating the Book of Mormon. CAN WE TRUST OUR HEARTS as to book of Mormon since there is no evidence? Maroni chapter 10:4 says: "he will manifest the truth of it unto you" But: THE BIBLE WARNS YOU about trusting your own heart. Jeremiah 17:9 "the heart is deceitful above all things". Proverbs 28:26 "He that trusteth in his own heart is a fool." Please don't be a fool. The entire belief system and premise of Mormonism is based on a false claim the Bible was corrupted and "plain and precious parts" were removed by early Christian translators sometime after the apostles had all died. This is a very dangerous claim to make against the word of God, especially since God promised us his word would never pass away and would be with us forever (Isaiah 40:8; Psalms 100:5; Matthew 16:18, 24:35; 1 Peter 1:23-25). An Objective Test of the Bible and Book of Mormon The Claim: In the Book of Mormon, the prophet Nephi has a vision the Bible was corrupted after the 12 apostles preached it and after the formation of the “great and abominable church” (1 Nephi 13:26-29). Most Mormons believe this to be the Catholic Church which was formed early in the 4th century. Nephi claims this church was founded by the Devil to lead souls to hell (1 Nephi 14:3). So let’s objectively examine both the Bible and the Book of Mormon to be fair and test if any have errors. Bible: The earliest Dead Sea Scrolls have been historically dated by three different dating techniques to as early as 350 BC. Included in this discovery was the Great Isaiah Scroll, which is the oldest known complete copy of the Book of Isaiah and is dated to approximately 200 BC. Study the dead sea scrolls which are over 2,000 years old and see if they have Joseph Smith's uncorrupted version. They should if Joseph Smith was correct and the bible had been corrupted over time but, no they do not. They are the same today as they were over 2,100 years ago with only minor spelling or punctuation differences. Joseph Smith was wrong. The bible had not been corrupted. “You are my witnesses,” declares the Lord, “and my servant whom I have chosen, that you may know and believe me and understand that I am he. Before me no god was formed, nor shall there be any after me.” (Isaiah 43:10) If Mormonism is true, then God could not make the claim that there were no gods before him, for he was just a man at one point; nor could he claim that no gods would come after him, for that is the goal of every member of the LDS church. The new testament has not been corrupted either. Take for example John 1:1 a very important verse than Smith changed to make Jesus a created being. A papyri known as the Bodmer Papyri which is almost 1900 years old of the book of John. (this papyri was written not long after the apostle John would have died and it shows joseph smith changed the book of John, not that it got corrupted later as he alleged) John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God. ΕΝ ΑΡΧΗ ΗΝ Ο ΛΟΓΟΣ ΚΑΙ Ο ΛΟΓΟΣ ΗΝ ΠΡΟΣ ΤΟΝ ΘΕΟΝ ΚΑΙ ΘΕΟΣ ΗΝ Ο ΛΟΓΟΣ I post this in love. The manuscript and archeological evidence for the bible is the greatest of anything in antiquity. I pray that you know the real Jesus, real peace, love and true salvation. "But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed." Galatians 1 One is a Jesus who is not eternal and was the spirit brother of lucifer in pre-existence & a God the Farther who was once a man - an exulted man. The other is the eternal Word, the Alpha and Omega- Jesus, by whom created all things, seen and unseen. And a God the Father who says the He alone is God, nor any god before, not any god after. There is no way for the Biblical account of Jesus to arrive at the account of the Book of Mormon. Mormons have been taught that the bible was corrupted. I hope to open eyes that God is much greater than the humanoid that you have been told about. He is the creator of all creation not just this solar system. Jesus said all scripture shall not fade away but many wolves and false prophets will come and try to add to the word. It pains my heart to see mormons fall for the lie that Satan first told Adam and Eve that we can be like the most high. Genesis 3 Joseph Smith sold the same lie. Another lie, a Temple like Solomon's Temple built in America does not exist. 100% impossibility as we would have some remains and there were no Levites in the Americas to serve in the temple so it would have been against Jewish law which book of mormon says were kept. If you study the bible you know this. Mormon's own the Hill Cumorah yet they do not excavate it because they know there is nothing there from previous digs. An excavation would be a grand embarrassment and would prove the religion is a lie. It did not happen. Look at Mormon Chapter 8 the evidence for it does not exist and evidence would exist if it happened. Why did Joseph Smith condone polygamy as an ordinance from God (Doctrine and Covenants 132) when the Book of Mormon had already condemned the practice (Jacob 1:15, 2:24)? Why did Brigham Young teach that Adam is “our Father and our God” when both the Bible and the Book of Mormon (Mormon 9:12) say that Adam is a creation of God (Journal of Discourses, Apr. 9, 1852, vol.1, p.50)? If Brigham Young was a true prophet, how come one of your later prophets overturned his declaration which stated that the black man could never hold the priesthood in the LDS Church until after the resurrection of all other races (Journal of Discourses, Dec. 12, 1854, 2:142-143)?

I believe what you say is true with some people, but you can’t include all mormons many Mormons are devoted to Jesus Christ and talk of his gospel quite a bit. I get your point though.

The gospel enriches families only if everyone in a family agrees to believe exactly the same. If any member of the family chooses to believe differently or is born gay the church then teaches families to shun that member, to isolate that family member and to weed them out…the church teaches to choose the organization over the family member which is exactly why the church is losing members so fast…people are choosing family over the church and are not allowing a bigoted, intolerant organization to dictate the live they feel towards a family member! Ironically, the churches stand against non-traditional families will be it’s undoing!

Actually, he did plagiarize another man's work and use it in the BOM. You don't know that?

​@@mormonishpodcast1036the only thing that should really matter is the most important thing, JESUS Christ, THAT'S what the LDS LTD gets wrong.