EPIC Janeway argument - if animals had a voice... 

I always hated those aliens for being so smug.

Sorry, these labrats are fighting back, classic line from Captain Janeway

yeah, the whole argument is great and all, but since they specifically chose to experiment on a foreign starship and not their own citizens they pretty much know what they are doing isnt ethical

Loved this episode. The actress that played as the "scientist" was fantastic at playing her in a kind of eery cold but "nice" emotion that played to her character's ego and self righteousness.

I love Kate Mulgrew, such a great actress!

One of the best episodes of Voyager. It had everything: suspense, social criticism, action and fun. Perfect episode with a brilliant Janeway.

This was such a great episode. The flaw in the scientific method is the appeal to greed. The lure of information about objective reality can often be tempting and that makes some scientists willing to ignore suffering to obtain that information in their experiments.

There were plenty of other shadowy, super-evolved aliens who've used a Starfleet crew as lab rats, but they were typically quite inhuman in their looks and behavior. These aliens though were the scariest of them all, because they looked and comported themselves like Federation scientists. Their calm, kindly-voiced, but sociopathic "bedside manners" and very human-like appearance made them quite unnerving. It's a shame they never reappeared.

"You're exaggerating!" "Alright, let's put you through some stuff of our own, after all, I'm a scientist too, right? We need data as well"

The Actress who plays the alien , is really good .

A good episode. Janeway's solution was both risky and brilliant.

Anyone hear a slight tremble in her voice? Poor Janeway was on the verge of breaking down. Imagine what would have happened if it went on for another day or two?

they wanted to test Janeway under stress? They deserve her reaction! Great!

It was vindicating seeing one of their ships get blown up at the end of this episode, and all because they tested Janeway's nerve too much.

1:42 Janeway measuring alien for a coffin

"There's the right way, the wrong way, and the Janeway."

this whole episode was proof why janeway was the most bad ass captain ever.

Excellent acting! Both actresses played their roles well. Cold and direct..

I must give Janeway the moral high-ground here. I'd fight them too, scientific research or not. Great episode, greatly acted out.

That's exactly what we do with our test animals. Only that they can't defend themselves, not even call for help. When you realize this situation, it's just horrible for our test animals.

This is what happens if you mess with Captain Janeway

The dialogue between Janeway and thay hostile alien woman was superb acting.

btw, in the starfleet time period, animal testing, would be pretty much obsolete, not even from a morality perspective, just that we'd be able to simulate animals using holodeck-esque technology, animal farming will likewise be obsolete due to replicators being able to create meat

back when star trek was good

This species is advanced enough to develop stealth technology that allows them to be literally invisible, but for some bizarre reason not advanced enough to conduct experiments on humans without poking and prodding them with primitive tools. How about some type of bioscanner that allows you to understand the workings of human physiology down to the cellular level

_Star Trek: Voyager_ had a lot of _terrible_ ideas, but it also had a lot of _really_ good ones, and they include this episode. I mean _look_ at this race. They don't pop up _anywhere_ else in _Star Trek_ but you _love_ to _hate_ 'em. "I don't like causing people to suffer, but sometimes it's a necessary part of my work." Listen to how high and mighty she sounds. Listen to how smug. But of course you _know_ they know their research is unethical. That's why they're not conducting this research on their _own_ people and _that's_ the part that _really_ pisses you off! "What kind of work is that?" "Medical research. We're scientists, like you." Not like them. _Absolutely_ not like them. When you _really_ identify with someone, you see them as _analogous_ to you and _refuse_ to justify any treatment of them that you refuse to subject _yourselves_ to. "Our techniques are as _benign_ as we can make them." An obvious lie. They could, of course, choose not to _conduct_ them. That would make them _much_ more benign. "Please understand that there's a purpose to our actions." Then conduct these experiments on your _own_ people. _They_ will understand, _surely._ See how much of them _you_ are prepared to tolerate. "We're really more similar than you care to admit." Something _protagonists_ never say. "You're a _remarkably_ strong-willed individual. I've been very _impressed_ by your self-control over the past several weeks." 🤦 _Oh,_ well I'm sure her approval gives Janeway a _warm fuzzy!_ You see? There's that smugness again. "If you make no further attempts to interfere, I assure you that the fatality rate will be minimal, though there may be some deformities. And I would be willing to share our final data with you." 😠😡😤🤬 Ohhhhh! The _gears grind!_ "You can't possibly expect me to accept that." "If you don't, then the entire experiment and its subjects will be terminated." So let's put this in more well known parlance. "If yous cooperate, we'll rough yous up a bit, bust a few kneecaps, break a few fingers and kill just a _few_ of yous, see? But if yous don't, you're all _dead,_ now. Capische?" I mean that's it. That's the long and short of what this woman just said, but with the kind of detached calm that made it _so galling!_

I always like to imagine how the other captains would have reacted to this alien. And the one i want to see most is Sisko

Rosemary Forsythe as the alien is one of the two greatest performances ever. The other is Gladys Cooper in the Twilight Zone episode Nothing in the Dark.

Me if i was janeway: Computer cut all life support from the cell an erect a level 9 barrier Her: what you doin Me: oh a experiment see how much you can live with out life support

Was I the only one who was expecting to hear some weird animal sound thrown into the clip?

The aliens fail to realize that harming sentient life forms such as humans to forward their scientific agenda is immoral to us. They don't take our feelings into account, even though they fully know we can convey to them "Please stop."

Stark Trek triumphs again in using "entertainment" to get as all to think further about the big moral questions of our times. This episode was well written and the character of the "scientist" well played in that she appears calm and rational and talks to Janeway as if she expects her to come on board with the aliens actions being a "fellow scientist". She seems genuinely suprised and a little disappointed that Janeway doesn't agree to go along with the experiments once she is aware of them. One of the more cleverly written episodes of Season 3

First she says that the experiments are benign, then she says that the fatality rates will be minimal but there will be some deformities.

This is when Voyager is actually good not boring. In the unknown, I wanted the Voyager crew to face the unknown and with negative outcomes which was the challenge that Brannon Braga refuse to explore. This one episode is when Braga is not involve and we finally see Janeway becoming more like Ellen Ripley.

This sounds EXACTLY like the arguments of the Big Pharma executives. Chilling. ha.

An amazing episode on many fronts!

Never piss off Captain Kathryn Janeway she will win everytime

Captain, throw it out the airlock.

This kind of mentality is a great way of finding new enemies. One day, they would run into someone who's capabilities they underestimate, and who have the mentality of klingons. Would that be a sight to behold, their entire species getting their comeuppance.

This always happens. I watch one of these clips and immediately need to find the episode and watch it.❤

Also the Aliens had turned the Voyager in a kind of a Concentration Camp. Back in Nazi days people were not only gased there, lots of absolutly unhuman experiments were done there also.

I love this scene and this whole episode. "... though there may be some deformities" LOL! :-D

I know the reasons, complete control over crew, but it would be a cool experiment to see “Is your life worth saving?” and proceed to torture this creature? Maybe keep firing more and more phasers into the area and getting closer saying they can depressurize the cell at any time and this is a test for her ability to handle stress. Maybe use plasma to see how she handles burns.

This could be happening on you right now. That headache that has lasted a few days. That pain in your foot. And other niggles...

I'm surprised we never learned more about this species. Even the Malon gave some background about their culture. I would like to have seen Janeway take it to the extreme to stop them.

I wonder if the borg have encountered these aliens. And if they did I hope they assimilated them since these aliens are a bunch of sadistic !@$%&*!#.

Janeway is one of my heroes !! When I die I want to go to a starship !!

THIS IS WHY I LIKE JANEWAY

I would torture the hell out of that alien

Who's the actress playing the alien becuase her voice sounds really familiar but I can't find her name on any lists?

I Remember this part

Animals do have a voice. Humans.

There is only two reasons for harming a animal or killing a animal 1 self defense 2 for food Harming or killing a animal for the purpose of fun or sport is not ethical or right...

what season is this

aw man, I totally forgot what she does in response.... :D I wanna see this episode now.

So then she flew them into a sun. Classic Jameway move.

0:00 to 0:09 Silence of the Lambs shout-out.

Question... During the captains interview of the scientist in the brig, am I the only one who wanted to see Janeway bitch-slap the tar out of that smug scientist? 😁

I really wanted them to come back to this species. Perhaps to bring the wraith of the federation upon them or something.

Alien: Then the entire experiment and its subjects will be terminated. Janeway: Janeway to Seven. Yes, the Sisko Maneuver.

Got us an active PETA supporter here lol love this episode tho.

I just could never get behind Janeway being a hero

This is one of my favourite episodes of Voyager. Like Janeway will do everything in her power to escape an experiment, I'll do anything to avoid pharma diagnostic and vaccines medicates. I decide what goes in my body - no government or private company has the right! ;-)

What kind of freaking protocol is that?!

When I ear the scientist's "excuse", my brain shouts "Dr Halsey!!!"...I wonder why... Oh..."the ends justify the means" usual bs...right...

The Srivani should be happy that Janeway no longer had the Tri-Cobalt Torpedoes...or that they weren't dealing Sisko.

I wish the final confrontation on the bridge had been with this particular alien so Janeway could have really stuck it to her smug face. I dont remember exactly the details of the episode and why it was another alien in that scene.

Would've been a lot more epic if voyager had a male captain.

Art imitating Life = Brilliance !!

Let me conduct my own experiment, how much energy could your alien cranium take from a phaser set on the lowest setting but continuously fired until the power cell runs empty?

I has sleep apnea for 2 years and felt the same way Janeway was that entire time. I wishes that my suffering could have been used to help millions. For Janeway to say staying awake for over 3 days to help millions is ok in my opinion.

If animals had a voice, they wouldn't be food animals because they would be sapient beings. Some would say sentient, but sentience is the ability to feel, not the ability to reason, therefore all conscious animals are sentient. If they were capable of reasoning conversation, no one with an ounce of empathy would even consider them food.

Talking to you in outside of my protocol. Well having my crew experimented on is out of Star Fleet protocol. So . . . Looks like we are both coloring outside the lines.

This lady played Adrian Monk’s mother-in-law in “Monk”.

Rosemary Forsyth's performance could not be more perfect.

They always omit the most obvious arguments in these shows. I wonder if it's intentional.

I swear, the Delta quadrant had an inordinate number of abhorrent species and cultures. I hope the Federation and their Klingon allies pay them all a visit in the future...... "Regardless, we now know of the existence of your species, and how to imprison you. Please bare that in mind..." ~Jean Luc Picard. How great would it be for Admiral Janeway to show up with a fleet to put a stop to attacks like the one in this video.

Perfect.

If that's the way it's got to be...

it is obvious lives on the voyager has decent intellect and are communicatable, diplomatic. Why the far-advanced alien don't know ethics ? Did the alien skipped Ethics class , but rush into Chemistry and Physics ?

"NOT MUCH!" Love it!

This is the greatest scene in all of Star Trek-dom.....imho

Research is required to advance medical science. But it is only to be done after a brief of the research is sent to an ethics committee for approval. The committee will probably require some adjustments. They want the research project to be: . Safe . Ethical . Relevant . The results have to be reproduced Participants must be given a full brief of the research that they'll participating in; what it is,the purpose, the risks involved, how much time is required for the research etc. After this,potential participants can decide whether or not to proceed or they may have a physical or mental health condition that means researchers have to remove them from the project. What this species was doing would be considered dangerous and unethical; they had no history on their participants,no consent the research would be disallowed due to it's unethical nature.

Voyages was pretty fun... Great respect to the original and TNG, but I'm one of the weirdos that loves DS9..... I love voyager because they got thrown into the unknown... Loved DS9 as a space station and not knowing the other side of the worm hole thing... What goes in and what goes out.

The arrogance lol. She talks about how the most important thing to Janeway is the welfare of her crew and how she'd even kill to defend them. THEN goes and threatens to kill them all, really seams like a very arrogant and stupid thing to do.

It’s unethical for us to experiment on animals.

_yes captain janeway you had just_the animalls had a good thought and proper language_archaicxn lord

Janeway is my spirit guide.

This is a very cleverly concealed take on animal testing. Imagine that Janeway is the lab rat and the alien is one of us... The tables are turned. I wonder how animal testing labs reacted to this episode.... JW3HH

So I guess it’s on.

If you want to get technical, the crew of Voyager are the aliens. Alpha Quadrant to Delta Quadrant! Neelix & Kess are the only 2 from that Quadrant!

Wait, isn’t serotonin responsible for triggering the aggressive impulse?

It would be called the world wide web

"Doctor, the sperm whale on Earth devours millions of cuttlefish as it roams the oceans. It is not evil; it is feeding."

she played the part of ray barones wifes sister on everybody loves ray took me a while to figuer it out

Nothing like overconfident androgynous aliens.

this aliens must conduct experiment to the borg.hahaha

Even their ships were attached to voyager like transient entities - just like the renaissance painting of Raphael the archangel shows the blue ethereal smoke under him and by his crown

If someone did something like that to me I would get a hammer and go to town.

This is the one thing I consistently don't like about Star Trek. The absolute, all out, zero tolerance NEEEEEEEEEEED for one side to be morally superior. DS9 came closest to ethical ambiguity being an accepted idea, but even it never got closer than "well, I guess the bad guys aren't all bad, and we aren't all good." It's arguments like this, where they can't just assert events as they are perceived and be done with it. no no no..someone has to be a victim, and someone has to be an evil oppressive force. No room to just say "We disagree. Have at thee." It has to be "I'm right, and you're bad."