This episode was creepy as hell. I watched it the first time, but all the other times I have watched it I fast forward because I just cannot watch the clown scenes except for the end.
The shooting of that is actually genius. In the scene theres a rotating wheel of tapestries on the wall. They framed the shot perfectly so he would be in front of it as it was rotating. A great point of set design for function and form.
Janeway whispering to me is more terrifying than Sisko being sharp tongued...or Picard laying down truth for all time...or Wolf having aggressive tendencies...or Data having a 3.12 second break in his programming....or Riker and being billy bad ass awesome...or the Borg Queen herself standing before toying with assimilation. Oh yes, assimilation into the Borg is less terrifying than a whisper from Captain Katherine Janeway.
Id rather be yelled at by Sisko, pulled into Picards ready room, or wear a red shirt with Kirk, then be whispered at by this badass. Any day. The other underated badass is CPT Archer.
@John Doe and she doesn't. She gets shit on because the writers often tried too hard to compensate for her being female and so she comes off as schizophrenic. Instead of being consistent they just do whatever necessary to make her tough in every situation so she isn't seen as a stereotypical fragile woman.
***** it's okay dude. I was saying fake in sense as not the real deal. when it comes to Startrek I know they often refer to holographic expieriences as fakes. That's basically how the Doctores arc starts.
To be fair, her solution was partially copied from the TNG episode "Masks". In this episode, Picard is playing the role of the "moon" and he convinces the alien manifestation of the "sun" to step down, because it's the natural order of things that the sun will be conquered by the moon each day (in the evening). Same here: Janeway argues that fear only exists to be conquered eventually.
If you want to be really precise, Masaka wasn't any real person's reflection as Janeway's hologram was of her. She was a fictional character that likely never lived; a mythical figure that existed in a lot of people's minds because everyone in this civilization probably knew the story of Masaka and attached a meaning to it. It can be argued that the collective thoughts about Masaka brought her into existance, not unsimilar to how the collective fear brought "fear" into existance in the Voyager episode. (Although, admittedly, the actual process by which Masaka became the dominant personality inside of Data isn't explained in the episode.)
I have never interpreted it like this, I always assumed that Masaka was a constructed rather than a real personality. We have to disagree on this. ;D Evidence: the other personalities that Data exhibits are also more like fictional characters (they are kind of one-dimensional, not deep as real people are). So, I always assumed, that all of these characters were purely fictional; Data may have absorbed the minds of real people, but somehow the fictional characters proved to be the strongest and manifested through him. Of course neither interpretation can be proven.
I love the way Janeway approaches fear when she fist appears on stage. She walks towards him staring him down. She's such a good actress -- full of depth.
Janeway was the right captain for the right time, mission and ship. Kate Mulgrews performance was nearly flawless and she grew into the role as the show progressed.
Ladies and gentlemen, the final verse from the Book of Fear: "Fear Itself dared to look in the mirror to revel in its perfection. Instead it saw Janeway staring back at it. And lo, Fear feared Janeway, and cringed at her words, the last words of whisper Fear would ever hear before vanishing forever: "I KNOOOOOW" Then Janeway returned to her own realm, and continued her voyage, righteously self-confident in the fact that all future opposers would come to realize: Janeway not only conquered Fear. Janeway...IS Fear." Here endeth the lesson.
Indeed! I recently attended a lecture given by Brian Greene on String Theory&Kate Mulgrew was there also and both answered questions all through the lecture and after. I taped a couple short clips, I didn't think of it at first ; / But, she was also going to sign her book after "Born with Teeth" her autobiography! She's so Freaking Hilarious; p BUT, the best part was I went to the restroom after&I hear her come in and start talking on the phone. So, I hurried to wash my hands&primp And said Hello to me as I was leaving but, since we were alone I, stopped and told her what a strong female role model she was for so many women and how much her character helped me pull myself through seeing my Fiance die in front of me. I isolated and rewatched Voyager&Deep Space nine to help me learn how to better cope with such grief mostly on my own and saw courage, gratefullness and moving forward. She told me it's women's stories like my own that have enriched her life as well And hugged me....Geek out *,* Lol
liz Moore that's the Janeway we all love. Kate is a great actress. Thanks for sharing and sorry for your loss. Hope you've found peace and your life is good. 💚
The Thaw is such a great philosophical episode. It always reminds me of TOS. I could picture Kirk having the same interaction with a personification of "fear" and even felt she was invoking Kirk when Janeway said Starfleet Captains won't often succumb to fear.
Interesting thought. IIRC, TOS had some unused stories owing to its early cancellation. Makes me wonder if this was an old, unused story or screenplay that was adapted for Voyager. Edit: the Wikipedia entry mentions who wrote the story and screenplay. No mention of it being adapted from another story. I’d say it’s original. But I can see why someone would think otherwise, a lot of similar elements.
@@lancer525 Two things about Decker: 1, he was a commodore, not a captain, and 2, he didn't succumb to fear, he succumbed to horror as he inadvertently caused the death of his entire crew while thinking he was saving them.
@@drolgh8 Picard would have some blend of philosophy and logic that would conclude that Fear did not exist. Sisko would punch Fear, as you said, and Fear would never come back to DS9. And Archer? Well... he'd insist Fear was a Vulcan construct of some kind designed to mock Humans for having emotions, and then Trip would hit Fear with a wrench and he'd somehow die. Because, plot.
Dude, I dunno how anyone could say Janeway wasn't one of the best Captains in Star Trek history. When she says "I know..." dude, chills. Kate Mulgrew WAS Captain Janeway, and she was an excellent captain.
I personally thought that a lot of the time that Janeway was poorly written as if they couldn't define how they wanted her to act. Fortunately, the role was saved by the acting of Kate Mulgrew. Here Mulgrew got a script and version of Janeway truly worthy of her acting skills and she brought her A game.
@@danielhaire6677 my main problem with many episodes was how they didnt really have an ending. they just stopped at what felt like right in the middle of the plot and never picked up again. janeway however is my favourite captain ever. that woman is made from steel.
Fuck, this scene was good!!! The writing, the acting, the directing, everything worked perfectly in this episode. One of the best in all of the Star Trek history.
One of the best-written episodes in television history. Original, unique plot, and I could actually feel the fear in the characters. Love the music as Janeway strides in. Something epic is about to happen.
That Episode creeped me out the first time I watched it (I made the Mistake watching it at night) and it still gives me shivers. The Acting by McKeane and Mulgrew, the bizarre setting (and how it disappears, leaving nothing but darkness) the dialogue and David Bell's dark, dark Music. It just fits together!
It creeped me out too. I never really thought about clowns, until here. The chaos of the setting bothered me as much as the clown. I have only watched this one time all the way through. I fast forward through the chaos.
Yeah, but the writers were getting cagey, so it's a good thing it ended when it did. They were going to kill Naomi's mom "just because" if the series went on another season. Hell, they killed that poor Engineering Lieutenant mere weeks before the crew got home, "for the impact." The series' writers became very dickish and it never sat well with me.
I love that he got a taste of his own medicine in the end. They were right when they said that fear was one of the most honest emotions. It reveals a lot about a person. Are they cowards or do they face their fears head on? Is it a rational fear or is it a insecurity? Will they admit they are scared or will they deny it? These two acted so well together! They really did make you feel the emotions behind it.
I saw this when it came out in April of 1996, in my mid 30's. As others have commented, the "I know." whisper gave me chills and goosebumps. Then, the 'Drat!' cracked me up. Still, in those two words, Kate Mulgrew showed just how much power two whispered words with no threat in them could have. Now it's 2021 and I'm in my 60's, and they still give me chills. Makes me want to go rewatch the episode. The sad thing is, that 'drat' no longer cracks me up, it's just mild amusement. Wish they'd hurry up and legalize it here.
I was in 5th or 6th grade when startrek came out. I still like to re-watch it from time to time. What current shows do you currently watch? I'm genuinely curious since I don't really talk to anyone outside my age group. Curious to know what the elder crowd enjoys.
@@user-ol6bc5ke2c Actually, my taste in shows hasn't changed much at all. However, I no longer watch TV, although I do have Paramount Plus for my Star Trek fix. I do watch the occasional movie, and those are typically SF, 'thriller', and the rare drama.
People dog this episode, but it was good. Janeway just doesn't give a f**k. My favorite captain of all time. She'll blow up her ship if she has to. Probably the most gangsta captain in Star Fleet.
So many critics were harsh about this episode, but I was reminded of the older stories from the '40s. It was thought-provoking and scary via your own imagination. Brilliant.
TOS? Really? Faced with the physical personification of fear Kirk would have either tried to kill it or screw it. Those were his two coping mechanisms.
I have to admit I was not keen on this episode but I think the resolution was excellent - the moral of the story was that to overcome psychological torture you have to confront and overcome your fear - ie take the power back within yourself. Very well acted by Kate
Janeway did not confront her fear, she confronted a manifestation of the fear of others. And she did so with applied technology, hacking, deception, and misdirection. With a whole support team. She never "lost" (or even risked the loss of) any power to have to take back within herself. But, yes, I agree that her acting was excellent in this scene.
Except that there are some very tight and unbreakable limits to that. Your "mind" is an emergent property of your brain. Your mind can't do anything that your brain can't do. And the human brain is physiologically incapable of being consciously rational. Your hindbrain makes ALL decisions, unilaterally...and then sends them to your "conscious" mind, which does nothing but expand on their details...it chooses absolutely nothing at all. That exchange is always one-way, and the delay between them is measurable. . Any belief otherwise is pure self-delusion.
This scene still gives me chills. I like that the background starts spinning, like as if Fear is experiencing vertigo after realizing that his life is ruined. And the slow fade out to black is haunting. It's an excellent visual of life being snuffed out. The whole process is foreboding and ominous. An excellent representation of death and nonexistence. I wouldn't be surprised if this scene caused a few viewers to have an existential crisis.
This was the first episode of Star Trek I ever saw when I was a kid and it scared the absolute crap out of me - I avoided every series of the show for about 5 years after seeing it because I thought this was the general theme of them. Ironically, when I got older and discovered my deep love for the setting and eventually re-watched this, I realised that this was pretty much the only episode which would have scared me so badly and that (as Harry Kim quotes in the episode) "the only thing to fear is fear itself" - I let my fear take over instead of confronting it and, as a result, spent years missing out on stories which I would cherish for the rest of my life which got me through some rough times and inspired my love for all things sci-fi.
Captain Janeway is my favorite. She can both badass and compassionate and everything in between. Voyager was by far in the most difficult position. Support from Star Fleet was very rare.
one of my favorite episodes also. the way she says "Let them go" at 1:21 is one of the most commanding moments in all of Star Trek history. Picard is my favorite but Janeway's best moments are definitely at his level.
We may have gotten a different Janeway every other episode... but no matter who was writing her that day, one things was constant: Janeway was NOT someone you wanted as an enemy!
If this scene isn’t a better resume to be a pure legendary bona fide bad a** starship captain in all of starfleet right there next to Captain Kirk, captain Picard, Captain Sisko, and Captain Archer I don’t know what is. She quite literally defeated “FEAR ITSELF” now who can say that they have done that.
"The Thaw" was one of the best _ST:V_ episodes there ever was. Kate Mulgrew's and Michael McKean's acting were both spot-on, plus there is the fade-to-black ending which kicks you in the junk: "I'm afraid." "I know." "Drat." _Damn!_
English class totally failed when they tried to define "femme fatale" for me. It's not skin tight leather or sexual in any way. It's this. A leader with intellect as the dagger in her back pocket, yet graceful all the same.
Ao 青 Well, no, a femme fatale is a just character archetype (and it involves being sexy). Not all badass women are femme fatales, and that is very much for the best.
... Yeah, no. Femme fatale has nothing to do with attire. It has to do with actions. A femme fatale is like a Black Widow. Its alluring and attempts to seducr its prey before striking, taking advantage of it. The most important part of a femme fatale is the fatality in it.
I've always understood it to be seductive death. So powerful you can't help but be drawn in, risking defeat in the process. Alice does this perfectly as the Borg Queen.
Janeway actually is often rated as the best leader of the captains by management experts. Things like that (developing human resources) and the fact that she seeks input from her crew. Picard and Kirk in are also great leaders, but they're more distant from most of their crew and less democratic in decision making. Then there's Archer, lol.
The "I'm afraid!"-"I knooooow." exchange at the end of almost every Voyager review makes me laugh every fucking time. I think SFDebris' portrayal of Janeway as a secret megalomaniacal supervillain makes me like her even better.
I would never have expected something like your inner fears becoming a real thing that not only hounded you but would kill you for fun. This was a good, dark episode!
Voyager had its moments of inconsistency, but, this final scene is by far one of the most cinematographic in all of Trek. The set, the lighting, the tempo and pace of the lines. Superb acting ties it altogether.
This scene gave me chills and was the only part of the episode I enjoyed. The Thaw to me was creepy..a little too creepy if you ask me. But I loved how Janeway went off on this Clown!
