I walked the Fugitive’s Trail from Isandlwana to Rorke’s Drift. It was not easy going. It would have been horror with hundreds of Zulus intent on stabbing the devil out of you
Stirring stuff, Chris! I for one, prefer to believe that they were truly carrying out their duties as assigned to them. I cannot begin to imagine how anyone could really unravel the last thirty minutes at Isandlwana, it must have been pure chaos. Your delivery was as ever outstanding, thanks!
I cannot imagine what those last 30 minutes or so must have been like. Surely survival instinct would have kicked in ? Let's face it, there were many soldiers trying to get down Fugitives Trail not just these two men.
@@lyndoncmp5751 Did anyone who survived witness Colonel Pulleine ordering either of the two to save the colours? Officers and Sergeants are instructed to shoot any of their men who run away, or ride away as this pair did.
I personally think that in such horrifying circumstances, one should give those two brave officers the benefit of the doubt and consider their actions as those of men doing their duty, and nothing else. Both Melville and Coghill were highly respected and experienced officers, Melville in particular, so in my mind there is no doubt at all that they were following their orders given by Lieutenant- Colonel Pulleine and were attempting to do their duty by saving the Queen's Colour. Sadly, both were killed in the attempt but by good fortune, the Standard was found and rescued - therefore these two courageous officers had indeed fulfilled their duty to the end.
As a former solder of 1RRW B company 24th ft and combat veteran, these men were vastly outnumbered and must have been absolutely terrified. Brave no doubt, but a few VC's were handed out for political reasons. Its easy to comment, but unless you have witnessed combat then you can only imagine in your worst nightmares what it must have been like in the heat of battle. Excellent presentation, thank you.
I'm a retired, 3 war, 24 year US Army combat vet. This battle doesn't even come close to modern warfare. I agree with your comment, but there is one thing to consider. Modern warfare isn't personal, like Isandlwana. Your enemy rarely gets close enough to smell their breath. There it did. It was a fight for survival. Hand to hand. Against a brutal enemy using spears. Lastly, vastly outnumbered. If you were on foot, your fate was being used as a pin cushion/ hacked to death. Very unlike war today. Cheers.
Lt Edgar Anstey a young Australian subaltern broke out of the mayham of the camp with 60 redcoats . He led his men under intense pressure down the fugitives trail losing half of them , out of ammunition the survivors formed square and we're overwhelmed . The Zulu indunas were so impressed by his courage and leadership , he came close to getting his men to safety , that they forbade his ritual disembowelment a normal Zulu practice . His family were so angry that alone of the dead his body was brought back to England and buried in Working . No medal for him but his regiment placed a brass plaque on his impressive tombstone fairly recently l saw it myself . People are only concerned with V. C. winners but his story should be told .
John, thanks for commenting. I cover Lt. Anstey in a little more detail in my recent video about Isandlwana. The first Australian born soldier to die on active service outside of Oz.
I have often wondered what acts of heroism and courage were committed on that field but are lost to history as nobody survived to commend them. The few Zulu oral accounts that I have seen recorded suggest that the fighting was very hard and hint at remarkable tales such as "The last of the 24th" fighting from a cave on the hillside until early evening and the 1/24th company that formed square , had their officers s step out before them, shake hands then lead a bayonet charge into the heart of the Zulu formation once their ammo was expended.
Im sorry mate this is mostly nonsense. There was no square formed on fugitives trail although his corpse was indeed intact. Anstey's whole family is English his body (the only body that was repatriated from Isandlwhana) was repatriated to the family vault in Somerset, England.
I have heard that the custom of disembowelling the dead was meant to release the warriors spirit from his body. Zulu's would do this to honour dead foes. Multiple stab wounds meant that other warriors could share in the killing of the brave warrior. Apparently it just our view of this that makes it a horrible desicration of the dead.
The colour was a heavy cumbersome affair. Extremely difficult to hang onto while traversing Fugitives Trail. Anyone just saving their skins would have dumped it at the first opportunity. Carrying the colour absolutely hampered Melville's escape. Yet Melville clung onto it to the very end, even when he ended up in the drink. He risked his life to save the colour. Well, he gave his life for it. Coghill risked his life to help save Melville and then gave his life to that rescue attempt when he could have escaped to safety. Both VCs were absolutely justified.
Indeed. It must have been very difficult to keep hold of it through that difficult terrain while being chased by Zulus. I think I would have got rid of it and saved myself.
Yeah, Lyndon has the right take. The Colour was found in the river. Fugitive's Trail is a pretty long and arduous trek, Zulus or no Zulus, and Melvill clearly reached the riverbank with that awkward, top heavy, and heavily embroidered item. He could have ditched it. Those scenes from "Zulu Dawn" where M & C are racing the Colour to and across the river is some of the most dramatic and heart-stopping footage in all of film! The composer, Elmer Bernstein, really outdid himself with his amazing score - you can hear the bells toll for these doomed men. Unforgettable images!
Jul Bro, Yes that's the way people should see it. Thanks for the agreement. Some people didn't even stop to help other escapees, nevermind clinging onto something so cumbersome for miles through terrible terrain.
No-one saw them with the colours, the two aristocrat cowards rode away, deserting the infantrymen who they had led into the battle. The colours were found days later in the river.
@@keithhallam1155 And your proof is ? You do know there was a third witness, Higginson, who survived. But there is so much shit talked about the battle. They cant agree on the British numbers and several reference sources say the Colours were lost, but yet they were found and restored.
@keithhallam1155 There were witnesses. Williams at the headquarters tents in the camp saw Melville riding past from the front where the fighting was. Melville was carrying the cased Colour. He had fetched it from the guard tent in the Saddle and taken it towards the fighting, almost certainly ordered by Pulleine in an attempt to make a rally point. This clearly was not possible so Pulleine likely ordered him, as he was the Adjutant of 1st Battalion and thus the Colour was his responsibility, to not let the Zulus get their hands on it. On Fugitives Trail, Brickhill rode with Melville and Coghill for a while and he was adamant that Melville was struggling with the Colour, still holding it. Another witness, Higginson said that when Melville fell in the river that Melville was still trying to cling to the heavy waterlogged Colour. Coghill helped Melville and saved him while he, Higginson, left them both and rode to safety. Melville then remained with the injured Coghill when they reached shore. Melville and Coghill were awarded the VCs for trying to help save the other. They were both brave men and deserved their VCs.
This was really interesting, and you ask a lot of very pertinent questions. It had to be very terrifying. One thing that I love about British military history is that the soldiers seem to have a full sense of duty no matter the circumstances, and will try to accomplish their mission regardless of the circumstances they must overcome.
Wow Chris, great story and it made me think of them as men and not just historical characters. I myself ,being initiated into these battles by ZULU and Zulu dawn, have always thought of them as heroes. Also my condolences to all of you on the loss of the queen. I'm a Yank, so I do not know all of the rules that govern such things. Thank you Chap.
I have learned one thing in my time with the US Army, sometimes you just need a hero even better, which is two heroes, selflessly sacrificing themselves for the greater good. I like to think their reasons for writing down Fugitives Trail where are partly for both reasons, one to save the regimental colors the other to save their own necks. When he rode back to save the other officer, his reasons were no longer in question because he made the ultimate sacrifice for his fellow brother in arms. Kudos to you for another excellent episode of the Zulu War, amigo y vaya con Dios 👏 🙌 👍
Yes they received the VCs for trying to save the other. Coghill saved Melville in the river when he could have escaped and saved himself, and in turn Melville stayed with the injured Coghill after reaching shore when he could have escaped and saved himself.
I've been looking forward to this since you mentioned it in the previous video. I've been really enjoying these videos on the wars in South Africa. Definitely an area I didn't know much about until watching your series!
Excellent presentation History Chap. The Zulu wars, Battles of Isandalwana and Rork's Drift in particular, I find most interesting and your presentations are most enjoyable to watch and learn. Thank you for posting. I'm a Navy Veteran. I couldn't imagine the terror and carnage witnessed by those soldiers fighting the Zulus. Absolute terror at its absolute worst.
Captivating as ever History Chap! I'd like to think they acted as heroes personally, that is unless we can be certain it was otherwise. I visited the museum at Brecon last week as you recommended and it was excellent! I do wish they covered all the battles of the Anglo-Zulu war and not just Isandlwana and Rorke's Drift, but excellent nonetheless👍
Excellent and moving presentation Chris! As usual, I would say. I agree with most of the people here. I shall give the benefit of the doubt to Coghill and Melville. I am sure they were brave and honourable men. The paintings and watercolours of Alphonse de Neuville (1835-1885) are wonderful. A French critic described him very well when he wrote: "De Neuville is a poet, a moving and tragic story-teller; he animates and dramatizes everything he touches"
@@retriever19golden55 yep for sure they liked to divide their forces, Durnford when he left the camp he was supposed to reinforce but then again so did Chelmsford.
As a fellow Drumcondra boy as Neville Coghill I would like to think he died a hero. Coghill was not a company officer on that fateful day and was not out on the perimiter serving with the six lettered companies of the 24th. that perished to a man. He may well have been instructed by Col. Pulleine to accompany Melville. Both officers were also good friends.His behaviour at the river proves he was no coward. Incidentally, Drumcondra is now a northern suburb of Dublin City, about two miles from the city centre on the direct route from the city to Dublin Airport about 5 miles to the north. Back in 1852 when Coghill was born it was a tiny village near the Belfast / Dublin rail line.
Paul, thanks for sharing your Drumcondra connection. So many British soldiers had an Irish connection. You are right that Melvill & Coghill were good friends. In fact Coghill knackered his knee cap when he & Melvill were larking around trying to capture a fowl.
@@tomfarrelly4552 More than likely. It was established in 1759 as a halt on the stage coach line between Belfast and Dublin . Another survivor from Coghill's time is Drumcondra Church and Graveyard just a couple of hundred yards from the "Cat". Neville Coghill was baptised there and I am sure played among the gravestones in the eerie graveyard just like me and my mates one hundred years later. That graveyard by the way was creepy enough for a scene from the 1964 Dr. Fumanchu horror film starring Christopher Lee to be filmed there.
@@TheHistoryChap No problem Chris. We even managed two VCs at Rorke's Drift. One to Surgeon Major James Reynolds from Dun Laoghaire (Dunleary) and the other to Private John Fielding (enlisted as John Williams) and who was one of the four heroes who really deserved their VCs for their valiant efforts in the burning hospital. I think John Fielding was the last surviving VC winner of the garrison. Incidentally I may possibly have upset some Welsh neighbours claiming Fielding to be Irish. He was admittedly born in Wales but to very recently emigrated Irish Catholic parents both of whom hailed from Co. Cork.
Another great video! Coghill was incapable of fighting on foot due to his injury so it makes total sense he would be sent to find any reinforcements he could muster at Rorke's Drift. At the time he departed it would be reasonable to assume that what remained of the force could mount some kind of defense within the camp so any distracting help from Rorke's Drift would be valuable - They were not to know that a force leaving Rorke's Drift would be picked off in the open before they got anywhere near Isandlwana. I also doubt Melvill would have left the battle without orders and his aim was indeed to save the colour. If he just wanted to save his own neck he could have conveniently lost the colour quickly making his "escape" a lot easier. Coghill showed amazing courage when he went back into the river to rescue the others when he could have carried on and survived. I honestly don't think either of them would have departed the battle purely to save their own neck. Imagine if the camp had somehow survived and someone could confirm that they had simply deserted. If they weren't shot, their future lives and those of their families, would be worse than death. That said, Harward nearly got away with it at Intombe Drift until Wolseley added his own opinion to the acquittal
The usual suspects, when cowardly officers deserted their men: - "Going for reinforcements", "going to report to HQ" and now we have "saving the colours".
@keithhallam1155 Give it a rest. Neither were "cowards". Coghill could have gotten away but he went to the rescue of Melville. Likewise, Melville could have escaped when they reached shore but he chose to remain with the injured Coghill. Both men sacrificed their lives to help the other. That's bravery. Melville, as Adjutant, would have been ordered by Pulleine to save the Colour.
Another great video Chris thank you, I personally think they were trying to save the colour as it would have been the thing to do in those times. Whatever the truth they were still very brave men, stay well.
There is a memorial on the field of iSandlwana, it is dedicated to the fallen of the Natal Carbineers who perished there in 1879. However, I feel that some of the wording is apt as far as Lieutenants Melvill and Coghill are concerned: Not Theirs To Save The Day But Where They Stood, Falling To Dye The Earth With Brave Men's Blood For England's Sake And Duty. Be Their Name Sacred Among Us. Neither Praise Nor Blame Add To Their Epitaph. But Let It Be Simple As That Which Marked Thermopylae. Tell It In England Those That Pass Us By, Here, Faithful To Their Charge, Her Soldiers Lie.
You make a very good point. Also the lack of coverage of Sgt. Kambula and his men getting across the Buffalo in good order and trying to provide covering fire for the fugitives.
The Natal Carbineers are rightly honoured. They lost 22 out of 29 men and officers. Durnfords Natal Native Mounted Contingent however, had a circa 90% escape and survival rate. This was above and beyond any other units. They only lost 1 officer and 27 men out of 6 officers and 257 men. The NNMC fled en masse when it got dicey. Henderson's troop of NNMC got out before the road to Rorkes Drift was even closed off. Indeed they wouldn't remain at Rorkes Drift either.
Well done Chris, loved the video and have watched it many times, just a quick question. With Coghill returning to save Melville and both staying together at the end, did they know each other from their time in the army and do we know if they where friends.
Interesting video and thanks for posting My personal take on the controversy is that Melvill was indeed acting on Pulleine's orders. I discount the possibility of using it to rally forces as in that case it would not be in the covers. On him, I think Wolsely was unduly harsh (, a common thing with officers not in his "ring"). Coghill is more difficult to exonerate. The idea he went for reinforcements is stirring but Pulleine would have known it took the Column 10 days to reach Isandhlwana, did he expect his men to hold off for a week whilst the 3 companies amass and march? Unlikely in my opinion. A better bet would have Chelmsford',s column who had several officers attempt to recall them. I question Coghill's motivation but acknowledge his bravery at the river. In attempting to save Melvill and Higginson
A very good assessment and observation. I agree that even if Coghill was intend on summoning reinforcements, they could never have reached Isandlwana in time and in sufficient numbers to have had any real impact on the outcome. However, Coghill's actions at the river were very heroic.
He might just have been judged the best man to deliver news of the situation down the line given his infirmary and what would clearly be a desperate need for every able man, his ownership and ability to ride a house despite injury and possibly his status as an officer to nip in the bud any doubts about the correctness of the news he was delivering.
Coghill had wrenched his knee and was left in the camp to recover; and, as he was 1st Battalion, "his men" (he was an adc or adjutant to Col Glyn) were with Chelmsford. He made the far side and then turned back to help Melville.
For me, an officer riding back into harms way to save a fellow officer, then - when he couldn't go on - make a stand together with that same officer is worthy of 'hero-status' for both ... wether he was saving a flag , albeit a very symbolic one, or not doesn't really matter. Wether they were on horseback fleeing or following orders doesn't really matter either. Everybody was fleeing from an onslaught there and then. Their last moments do matter and they both lived them well.
This was the British Little Big Horn and strange that both were in the same decade. Plus both commanders underestimated their opposition and didn't exactly know where the opposing forces were located. Add to the fact that both commanders were seeking to make a name for themselves.
@@anthonycaruso8443 Thanks for the comment. You're right, plus he was hanging John Mosby's prisoners and he stopped when Mosby started hanging prisoners he captured.
I’m truly amazed by the physical toughnesss of the Zulu warriors. That they could run 60 miles and fight a battle is incredible. And besides that they were running in bare feet. My bare feet don’t even like walking out to fetch the newspaper in the morning
greetings from the USA. -- I know so very little of Britains history in Africa - outside this movie I find myself watching - but story time with the history chap is so compelling I can't help but listen in - and even learn a thing of 2. Well done and Huzzah!
Everyone seems to forget one VITAL point - at the time of the battle, Melvill was 1st Battalion’s adjutant and as such had ultimate responsibility for the colours as well as helping Pulleine to control what was happening on the firing line and in the battle overall!! As such he wasn’t directly responsible for any particular line company…
You are correct. So he might very well have been given the Queen's Colour by Pulleine or taken it on himself to either save it or try to use it to rally the men. I guess, we will never really know.
@Coll Maxwell would you have a source for this as I’ve never read any of this anywhere…?! Several officers are said to have commented on the lack of defences which went against Chelmsford’s own orders…but I’ve never read of Melvill doing so.
Its amusing how Coll Maxwell words this: "denying a senior officer of another unit a request for assistance" My goodness. Durnford BLATANTLY flouted the orders Pulleine was given to act on the defensive, in his attempt to get two companies of the 24th to accompany him on his rash adventure to hunt down retiring Zulus.
Sean Ford According to the regimental history, on the 21st of January Melville is said to have remarked to Major Dunbar, the Field Officer: "I know what you are thinking by your face, sir. You are abusing this camp and you are quite right. These Zulus will charge home and with our small numbers we ought to be in laager, or at any rate be prepared to stand shoulder to shoulder." The protestations by a certain Coll Maxwell that Melville should have, but failed to, pre-organise a rally point is astonishing considering that his favourite officer (THE senior officer at Isandlwana), Lt-Col Anthony Durnford, not only failed to do the same for his 2nd Column but also failed to even make preparations for where his own ammunition supply would be located in the camp. Durnfords NNMC men were the first combat unit to bolt en mass instead of rallying and enjoyed a circa 90% escape and survival rate.
The Colour was initially taken from the guard tent in the Saddle to the left front of the camp in an attempt to organise a rally, because Private Williams, who was near Glyns tent in the centre, actually saw Melville ride past with the Colour, coming from the direction of the left front of camp and riding towards the Saddle. Pulleine likely ordered Melville to save it when the rally attempt failed.
I never knew the colour was saved at all. I will definitely go and see it. Ive actually been to the site of the battle and the monument at rorkes drift.
Three years before in 1876, in America, another large tribal force wiped out a US Army column led by Gen. Custer. There were no colors to speak of, only controversy over why Custer and his group went alone, and why were the other cavalry units not with him. Both armies underestimated their foes.
Thanks Chris, I have been reading about the battle and the withdrawal/retreat and was fascinated by your description and thoughts on Melville & Coghill. Really enjoyed your telling and I wait for the next one, cheers
Andrew, thank you. At the end of the day, we will never know what was driving their actions. All we do know is that one carried the colour to safety, one rode his horse back into the river to save the other, and both then died fighting the Zulus.
@@TheHistoryChap I agree, it's a really interesting period of European/British history, and how it shaped that part of Africa to this day. Keep bringing out the content, Cheers
One of the most famous battles between the Zulu and the British. Truly a part of history that stirs up interest and keeps you on the edge of your seat until the final climatic ending.
Did they ride to save the Queen's Colour or just themselves. I believe you answered that. In order to save the Queen's Colour, they had to try to save themselves. Once they had lost the Colour in the Buffells River, they were then free to try to save themselves. Obviously, they couldn't go back to the camp as it was already overrun, so they tried to reach the troopers giving covering fire, but due to Coghill's knee, they couldn't and died fighting. That the Queen's Colour was found three weeks later made no difference to what happened. Besides, no one but Melville and Coghill will ever know what they were thinking at that time, but based on the fact that British soldiers would die rather than lose the Colours, really answers the question. Doesn't it?
Fantastic presentation Chris 👍 I’m most certainly going to give the Officers Melvill and Coghill the benefit of any doubt and the respect I believe they deserve, as they attempted to fulfill their duty and orders, paying the ultimate price. The Colours being saved, albeit not the way intended. The route taken by the Soldiers down ‘Fugitives Trail’, must have been horrendous. No quarter given by the advancing Zulu’s, knowing the inevitable outcome, especially if on foot, the burning heat, dehydrated. Thinking of family and decisions made in life. Having to face certain death and how you are going to die. The Regimental Museum of the Royal Welsh in Brecon is superb and well worth the visit, also a nice town 👍 🏴
I find it difficult to cast judgement on men in that situation. That kind of chaotic, desperate, brutal, battle of life or death could make cowards act bravely and brave men cowards. If we can never know the real truth, I would rather think them heroes because they cannot defend themselves in death . I must say again , you make these stories and these long dead men become alive again with the way you tell them. You make me remember why I became so drawn to history so many years ago
Thanks for your kind words. I only started telling these history stories 2 years ago and am loving the journey and meeting (virtually) so many lovely people. You are right to say that battles make cowards act bravely and brave men cowards.
You wonder what motive people would have to rubbish Melvill and Coghill after such an event as Isandlwana. I noticed the flag at 11:10 is a little confusing as the 24th is correct yet the flag appears to be upside down, or maybe its me. Anyway very nice video many thanks.
I really enjoyed this thanks, you really brought this story to life. I think that for whatever reason nobody could find fault in these two officers for trying to save themselves. The camp had been over ran and all hope was lost.
Id like to add as well that Melville must have brought the Colour from the guard tent in the Saddle, where it was kept, to the left front of camp in an attempt to organise some kind of rally because Private Williams near Glyns tent in the centre saw Melville ride past with the Colour, coming from the left front of camp back towards the Saddle area. Pulleine, knowing the battle was lost by then almost certainly ordered Melville to take the Colour to safety after the rally attempt failed.
I've been going through my books after listening to this. I was certain Melvilles movement could be placed by Williams, seeing as Williams was at the headquarters tents in the centre at the back, and not at the Saddle where the guard tent was. Melville definitely already had the Colour when he rode past Williams from the front left of camp towards the Saddle. 👍
We can piece it together from the known facts though. We know the Colour was brought from the guard tent in the Saddle to the left front of camp. Presumably in an attempt to rally, which obviously failed. Private Williams then saw Melville riding back with the Colour from the left front of camp towards the Saddle. It's almost certain that Pulleine had ordered Melville to take the Colour to safety. Pulleine was alive at this point because later on Brickhill overheard Coghill having to tell Melville that Pulleine had been shot and killed.
When you mention other escapees catching up with Melville and hence he must have left before them, my understanding was that until the colours had left the field, nobody else could leave (other than as cowardice). So to me there seems little doubt that he was trying to save the colours....and all those that caught up with him had similarly done their duty by waiting for the colours to go. Not so sure about anyone who left before Melville though!
What an excellent video and really exciting way you describe what happened, I imagine how terrifying it must have been, no radio or phone to call in help or an air strike or artillery support, just terror probably going past comrades dead and wounded, if you fall....you die, they should make this into a movie
I think it must have been terrifying and all your animal / self preservation instincts would kick in. True "fight or flight" and both were on display. What would I have done? Quite frankly, I really don't know...hope I never have to either.
Regarding heroes, a US Army Vietnam vet once pointed out to me that the US military has a tendency of sometimes awarding our highest military medal, the Medal of Honor, in actions that are military disasters. The attack on the USS Liberty and the Battle of Mogadishu are two examples. General MacArthur's Medal of Honor could fit into that category, but most consider it a political award instead of a military disaster related award (that's one of the reasons why it's still a controversial award to this day). Perhaps this was the case with the VCs for these two Lieutenants. Regarding combat, I was with the US Army in Iraq in 2004. We all knew that being captured meant being killed but we didn't dwell on it much. I think that the more combat time that you have, the better you can deal with this "fight or flight" conflict that every military person in combat deals with. You didn't dwell much on the combat experience of these two lieutenants, but I bet if they were combat veterans, the odds are that they were fighting their way to the river instead of fleeing from the fighting. I really like your videos. They are excellent! I am learning a lot about the British army and British military history. I worked with some British soldiers in Afghanistan in 2011. They were cockney Brits. Even though they spoke English and I spoke English, I couldn't understand a word they were saying, and they couldn't understand a word I was saying. It was interesting (that when I learned that you can join the British Army at 16; in the US, it's 17).
An excerpt from Michael Glover's 'Rorke's Drift' (1975): "At the camp the struggling islands of scarlet were flooded one by one by the irresistible black tide. The last group of all were sixty men of Captain Younghusband's company. It made a final stand high on the southern face of Isandlwana hill. At last, when they had fired their last rounds, they made a despairing charge downhill led by Younghusband, whirling his sword round his head. They had no hope and chose to die as a body rather than be hacked down one by one. One man only escaped, and he climbed the hill and established himself in a small cave. With his rear protected and a few rounds of ammunition, he lay there, fighting off the Zulus until he was shot through the head" - pg 81 That last line in particular always makes me emotional. I don't think we know that lads name, but he was likely the last man to die within the immediate surrounding(s) of the camp. He was almost certainly one of the few to die completely alone with no prospect of salvation (on the trail the men at least could run until the assegai caught them, and they were often within sight of a comrade - a small comfort). Having your back against a wall as a wave of assegai's stabbed towards you, completely cut off, is one of the more chilling ways for a soldier to die in the service of his country. God bless that lad and his memory.
I know if I was a British officer i would have issued myself a racehorse and a group of 8 very large men on very large, but slightly slower horses to ride behind me as i heroically turn tail and boldy run away with the colors while the other 8 heroic shields, soldiers i mean, not shields ride behind me. But really I want to know the significance of the 2 men not being disemboweled. Was it a time issue? Or was it respect for the men's fierce last stand. A Zulu account would tell a lot. Men fleeing only concerned for themselves aren't likely to go back for one another and to fight like demons. I know id be likely trying to surrender even if I thought it 90% the Zulu wouldn't take a white prisoner. 10% surrendering is infinitely better than 0% fighting
Coghill was NOT with Melville when he left the camp. Coghill was already across the river before he saw Melville with the Colour. If he had not looked back he probably would have survived the battle. He turned back to help Melville, which is what killed him. Coghill was injured earlier in the campaign so badly that he could not walk without help. It was justifiable for him to leave the field early because he could give no meaningful contribution to the defence, except as a messenger.
Neither man can be accused of cowardice if and from what’s been proven they were order to undertake this mission of saving the Colors which any man servicing in the King’s Army would support. As for the supposed witnesses who survived the battle and made any inference of these two officer’s cowardly withdraw, would they themselves not similarly be guilt of running from the enemy.
Its a shame we cant see the story from the other side, I would be an interesting comparison with other underdog fights against that happend around the first half of the 20th century
@@TheHistoryChap A fragmentary history is better than no history, lots of brave people doing what they where told was right those days. And the bravery of men with spears fighting the outnumbered red coats is a story that will live on for very long i do believe
The flags show the location. The bugle sounds orders. Such as attack, hold in place, fall back, retreat, etc. On that day, it sounded like a call that many would never want to hear, Run Away. The only thing more important than victory is survival.
'Those red soldiers at Isandlwana, the stood like stones' A Zulu chief, that is enough for me also I believe the fight lasted longer than the brief time we are told, squares formed, some small yes but some of the larger ones much longer if they had the ammunition then add Anstey's company it would take much longer for them to reach a mile past the camp coming from the firing line than 30minutes uphill keeping in a square which they must have off done. Just my thoughts after reading goodness knows how many books on the subject.
They both died in action, and were found together. I think that it's a little churlish to try to find dishonourable motives to impute against them. The exact truth can never be known. The fact that they died with the Regimental Colours isn't disputed, I presume?
1:45 Poor Pulleine! Definitely the wrong man in the wrong position. Also, unlike his colleague Durnford, Pulleine's mortal remains were never positively identified.
I HAVE TRULY ENJOYED YOUR PRESENTATIONS HERE IN NEW JERSEY! AS THE SON OF A USAF MAJOR AND THEN HISTORY TEACHER, YOUR THOUGHT PROVOKING WORK IS VERY REFRESHING, AND STRUCTURALLY, YOUR SEGUES INTO FUTURE OR OTHER PRESENTATIONS ARE ON POINT! BE WELL AND CARRY ON SIR...
Another Brilliant Episode Chris , For me it's Probably a bit of Everything, Fogs of War Clearly Melville was under orders to save the Colours , Cornhill I Suppose is Harder to Evaluate, but as I have Said in the Fog of Battle people see things that are possibly not what they seem, Coghill could have rode away , However he went back to help fellow officers and died with Melville that alone is a brave act. But it seems to me in that era from the Crimean war until after World War 1 a lot of Backstabbing was part and parcel of the Officer Generation, Bad blood and Relationships festered over many years .
Michael, I guess when you are in the heat of battle so many emotions and thoughts must occur...and not always logical either. I think it must have been terrifying.
@@TheHistoryChap Chris Probably the Casing point is the Relationship between Sir John French , Douglas Haig and Horace Smith Dorrien , And there thoughts and Bad blood between them especially in the Retreat from Mons and Smith Dorriens Stand at Le Cateu and the lack of Support for Fellow Officers again the Fog of war .
You (whether a Colonel, or a General) cannot order Infantry Officers to ride away and leave their men to die; this is not allowed in any British army instruction manual. The usual nonsense of "reporting to HQ", "going for reinforcements" or "saving the colours" does not excuse bolting. Officers and Sergeants are usually instructed to shoot soldiers who run from a battle.
Even though they were eventually heroic in trying to save the colour and each other, I do agree with Wolseley. But I suspect he singled out these 2 officers to shame the other officers who fled/ ran/ retreated and survived.
The More i learn the more i see lots of spin I think the truth was the Zulu was better on the day and it was every man for themselves and a story was created to try and pull back some credibility
one will never know the truth, let us live with the story it sounds better; there was a number of things wrong i.e. picket's spaced to far apart and to far in front, it could have been a different story upon that day, volley fire would have seen the attack broke and besides you would not let the press print the truth as it would have upset the people back home.
History Chap, I am hoping you can help me or steer me to the right location. I am trying to find out what unit my great grandfather Charles Joseph Byrne was with during the 2nd Boar War. I am assuming he was in an Irish unit since he was born and raised in Dublin. Ireland. And I am assuming he was in The Boer War because he was still a soldier when he married my great grandmother. On the marriage license occupation was soldier. Marriage was in 1905 in Dublin. Need more information just let me know. Leland Aucompaugh US Army retired
Hi Leland, trying to have a conversation through YT comments gets very messy. Please drop me a line through my website: www.thehistorychap.com and we can explore possible options.
The selfless acts of (a) plunging into the river to assist Melville and (b) remaining with the injured Coghill provides enough motive for the award of the Victoria cross. However, if those two events hadn't occurred i still wouldn't be looking down on those men because they were doing what any intelligent person would do when the chips are down ... Attempting to escape with their lives. In a situation as desperate as that all other considerations should, quite rightly, disappear from the mind. The saving of a piece of coloured cloth bears no importance when measured against the saving of one's own life.
The disembowelment was likely beyond ritual. It was sensible. A corpse left in the sun soon starts to rot. Gases trapped in the stomach cause it to swell and rupture. Obviously this is a potential way for diseases to spread. By disemboweling the corpse the Zulu could minimise the risk of potential disease, speed up decomposition and make it easier for wildlife to cleanly dispose of the mess. There's also a psychological effect. Over time this practice would easily gain a spiritual and religious connection.
Nice to see British military history being shared with passion and erudition and not the usual jingoism ... Dan Snow should watch your shows ... he could learn something ... Thank you,
@@TheHistoryChap To be clear, I'm not trying to imply that they were cowards, in all likelihood not, since they didn't hightail it out of there early enough to make a difference and even if they had run wouldn't automatically have made them cowards either. Thank you for the interesting content.
Melville was most likely ordered to save the colors . Coghill ? Honor was paramount back then . There is a great scene in the series " Sharps Rifles " Where Wellington is told by the cowardly commander of the South Essex , Col. Henry Simmons , that Major Elliott must answer for the loss of the Kings colors . Wellington answers angrily , " Sir , Major Elliott has answered with his life " . We will find out when we finally cross the Buffalo River ?
