For me the strangest episode so far. I think it had its moments and those worked pretty well, but it struggled between those quite a bit. I still thought it was decent and I can see that one might enjoy the episode, but it could have been done better. The potential is there and not reaching it full potential feels unfortunate. What do you people think? Shout-outs to the artists: Kimberly80 Ted Nasmith Jenny Dolfen Art
This series is empty. And I'm not talking about bad acting, over-CGI photography, generic dialogue, or generic soundtrack. I'm talking about not having that epic aspect, that timeless mythology theme. They may say: "But there's not enough written material" And I say: "Yes, there is! They are in the myths and archetypes for the construction of characters, concepts, events". I thought Sauron would be a (pseudo) Promethean figure generating religious engineering in Middle-earth. I thought they were going to show Harad and Rhûn inspired (as Tolkien said in 1966) in Africa (Ethiopia + Saracens) and Asia (Middle East, China, Japan, etc) That Galadriel was going to develop into the Philosopher Queen archetype to ideologically oppose Annatar's ideas. That Númenor was going to be a discussion about death vs. human nature.
I loved how Durin told Elrond he could not even speak of Mithril outside the mountain, but Elrond can just walk around with refined Mithril metal in the outside world. I'm sure nobody will notice him with it.
@@Steven_Edwards he walked around with a Ring of Power on his finger for a thousands of years, the West is just lucky it had the power to cloud the mortal and Immortal mind. Seriously, all I'm saying is the scene is inconsistent about how important Mithril is.
@@ThePhilosophersGames forgive me for making two replies, but I shouldn't have to rely on having read the complete works of Tolkien to understand the motivations of the characters, especially since they have stated they are doing their own vision of the work. Example, I don't think the Elrond of the books would trick and lie to Galadriel to send her back to the Undying Lands. Of course in the books he couldn't do this since she is barred from returning until she redeems herself in the Third Age by refusing the One Ring.
I think my main complaint is the stale dialogue. The prose of Tolkien could hardly ever be matched but Game of Thrones has dialogue that runs circles around this show’s script. The characters don’t feel mythical and eloquent like they did in Peter Jackson’s films. IE: the films that relied on Tolkien’s direct words.
Yeah, buying a drink for a girl or taking a girl to a date night feels like 21st century thing, not something you'd expect in that age. Totally amateurish writing, takes you out of the show
I am at the conclusion that this is the first ever 'improvised drama'. The cast were simply told to do 'whatever you want' on the set by the Director. There is no script, or screenplay.
The episodes could well have been a bit longer overall. Pretty sure they had plenty of matrial but were forced to cut down many sequences of dialogue or events. Or even some pauses in between, like how thirty seconds of just looking at places wouldn't have hurt.
this season feels a lot like season 1 of The Expanse, the first four episodes of which were purely worldbuilding where the story quite literally did not advance whatsoever, but then from episode 5 on it was fine. So honestly this season could still go either way for me.
Yeaaah. This is the first episode that has me jaded. The first two episodes felt magical because at least there was a lot of interesting set-up and settings! But now that the plot is starting up, it just feels like they're racing through obligatory plot points, and less like a naturally progressing series of events. They have multiple seasons, I don't know why they're doing it this way....
Yes I think that some story points feel so artificial in this episode is the biggest problem. I think you can ignore it, and have a still a good time with it, but if not, you might scratch your head. It's strange, because I would still say the big moments worked pretty well for me, so I would be lying when i said I hated it. It was in a way decent, but it could have been much better. And that is maybe what feel so unfortunate.
I think Adar could be Maeglin. Maeglin was corrupted by Morgorth, scar in face from his fall into the fire at the end of Gondolin, as son of Eol who hates the Noldor, after Tuor arrived in Gondolin he raised issue with men, for sure was able to speak quenya... I would not be suprised, if the show runners decided that Maeglin "survived" the downfall of Gondolin. And honestly speaking, his charakter arc has potential for an antagonist storyline, as canonically he tried to kill Earendil, the father of Elrond and Elros, hence connecting some different plot lines in the show.
It's an interesting idea, but often with those First Age characters we have completed story arcs. Maeglin was cursed by his father that he would meet the same fate him and he did. His story ends there. Further he also did not share the ideas of Morgoth, but he wanted Idril. What would be his motivation to go on? Same With e.g. Maglor. Due to that i hope those theories are not true. In addition Maeglin and Maglor are as far as I know not mentioned in LotR.
You make some valid points in terms of the pace of some of the storylines, and the development of some characters, particularly Galadriel, but I am so enjoying being in Middle Earth that I am not too judgemental about these. I hope they do hone down the main thrust of the tale soon, and that the characters are all a bit more enriched, but I still look forward excitedly to every episode. 😎😎 Thanks for the review! 😊😊
That's my main criticism. It lacks elegance and fluidity. It's tiresome to always mention GoT, so I'll mention The Expanse and Outer Range, also on Amazon. They're elegant series, with intelligent solutions. Elrond feels more Elrond than Galadriel feels Galadriel. I think it makes dramatic sense for Galadriel to fall for Hallbrand, seeing he can be Sauron or a Sauron's friend.
I have been enjoying the show thus far, although there are some issues here and there. I’m waiting to see all 8 episodes to analyze the characterization of every major player. This is mainly a plot-driven show, with the first 4 episodes introducing the characters in multiple locations, each having different motivations. I believe the next 4 episodes will move the story further but it’ll still be setup-heavy not just because of the sheer number of characters but also because the writers have to juggle the payoff for multiple plot lines and introduce the main villain, Sauron, and his story. Writing this type of multi-scale, multiple character story is not an easy task, especially in a visual medium. I think four episodes in a five-season show may be equivalent to reading the beginning chapters of a book. The major players have just been placed into the game and given motivations. I feel the main story is just about to begin. If this was a character-driven show just focused on Sauron, the story would be much different. But the show is trying to capture the Second Age and the main events that unfolded in this time. I’ll wait till the last episode to see whether the setup will have a nice payoff. If yes, that’s good news!
Yes I'm also not completely negative. I still the potential. But it so far feels like if they would have reduced some story points (like the Galadriel on the sea), they could have been in a better position in episode 4. That feels a bit unfortunate.
@@ThePhilosophersGames I agree. Galadriel on the sea was an unnecessary plot point. I'm not sure what purpose it served other than the chance meeting with Halbrand. Gil-galad sending her as an emissary to Numenor may have have been better. But then chance meeting with Halbrand and his backstory wouldn't happen the same way, perhaps? I am not sure. It will be interesting to see how they flesh out the the story between these two characters and the impact its going to have on the main plot.
This was one the worst episodes imo. What you highlighted were defo the same weak sauce parts of the episode for me too. When Aarondil was sent away with the message and the young’uns decided to forage for items - the show totally telegraphed that Theo would get into trouble and be saved by Arondil - that’s bad writing - when you know the big moment is essentially telegraphed & then plays out exactly as expected it makes the show’s story so pedestrian. For the first time I felt the hour was totally a bad generic episode not worthy of TV let alone related to Tolkien. Conventional & poor TV imo.
@@bloxa makes no sense Galadrial is behind bars for 'sedition' but the lad going 'took er' jerbs' is not punished for the far greater degree to which he is openly committing the same crime++ like wth, maybe not call Galadrial's actions seditious. Just googled some synonyms and rabble-rousing at least feels a word befitting fantasy genre. They did opt for 'tempest' & not 'electrical storm' moments before.
Chris, it's the writing. I was never expecting a lore fest... its Amazon, by Eru! The most I was hoping for was a good-looking, high fantasy, with a good story, and occasional loving nod to the Professor. I wasn't expecting too much, but have gotten very little. OK, it looks good... but that's it for me, because the writing, the most important part, the part that underpins everything else, is sloppy, seeming more concerned with ticking boxes and shoehorning story-beats with no care for how they get there. It feels very contrived... its not developing organically... for which I blame the multiple viewpoints. If they'd have stuck with one story, Galadriel's or Arondir's, say, and then introduced the other characters one by one over a season or two they may have had a chance. As it is, because they've tried to introduce all these parallel storylines, create an instant 'sweeping epic', they have bitten off more than they can chew.
Having watched it twice now I think this was the strongest episode yet. I thought the pacing was good, apart from Miriel's abrupt change of heart at the end which seemed a bit rushed. Elrond and Durin's friendship, and the veiled intrigue between them and their races, is engaging. The rape of the Southlands as Sauron grows his empire is convincing. There were great performances all round. There were no major new outrages regards the disrespect of canon. Despite the inappropriately multicultural groups, the dire representation of Galadriel (not the actress's fault), and the absence of Celeborn, it gives me hope for future episodes. Neither the low-brow Halbrand (I hate the way he interacts with Galadriel), the bumbling Stranger, nor the disfigured and disheveled Adar better turn out to be Sauron, or else I'll be greatly disappointed. Sauron must be a character immaculate, regal, and compelling from the outset.
@@ThePhilosophersGames lmao. It was just all the polls! Felt like a machine gathering data lol. If i catch ya guys next round ill be less of a loudmouth doofus. Cheers
@@lynnm6413 Lol heyy, I remember you! Lol, I'm glad you enjoyed my dancing monkey act, it comes very naturally for me. I enjoyed chatting tho! Was way more entertaining than the episode by miles haha.
Hi, you won the raffle. Congratulations ^^ We need to get in contact, so I can give you the code. Do you have Twitter/use Discord? You can also write me a mail ( info[at]tphgames.com )
This was theorized in the past, but imo his story is completed and his lore is too huge. In addition Tolkien implied in a letter that he potentially drowned.
@@ThePhilosophersGames Letter 131, and also in Concerning... The Hoard: "The other two Silmarils were also taken by the Valar from the crown of Morgoth. But the last surviving sons of Feänor (Maedros and Maglor), in a despairing attempt to carry out the Oath, stole them again. But they were tormented by them, and at last they perished each with a jewel: one in a fiery cleft in the earth, and one in the sea." Implied as well in later writings.
The only time I enjoyed the show when Elrond and Durin's storyline was played. Everything else feels written by some low class writer who can't even publish any of his writing in the local newspaper.
Galadriel, thousands of years old and one of the most powerful beings in Middle Earth, has been saved from drowning twice and been given lessons in etiquette and diplomacy by someone who should be a gibbering wreck in her presence. The actress is superb, but she's wasted here. The writers have pitched her incorrectly.
@@filipaantoniabaratadearauj1749 I don't buy it. They're trying to graft a human life-cycle onto an elf. She should be regal, self-assured, independent, a fully-grown Queen married to Celeborn, and far less angry and far less driven by emotion.
@@yangtze2000 There would be no arc whatsoever if this Galadriel was that Galadriel. I've issues with not even a bit of magic being associated to her, though. Elrond is better written in that regard.
@@filipaantoniabaratadearauj1749 the arc should be whatever is written in the canon. And if that's no arc at all then so be it. Not every character has to conform to formula, and not every story is about how a character grows. That kind of thing is laid on with a cookie cutter in Hollywood, sadly, whether it fits or not.
That is not true. The Harfoots also mourn their dead. I don't get why people exaggerate this one detail so much. Largo and his family was not banned by them or left to die. It was just on them to keep up with the rest. The potential cruel part is, that they did not delay their migration and that nobody offered help to them besides Poppy (maybe because nobody could spare any Harfoot strong enough to pull a cart, which might be a reasonable problem, though it was imo not well established).
@@ThePhilosophersGames the love that I saw pour out of Adars face as he had to put his orc son out of misery ..was beyond anything the harfoots have ever showed, or likely will show. It contrasts harshly with them laughing about the dumb harfoot who died of anaphylaxis from Bees. The orcs even said a little prayer over their companion before taking him off screen. Very interesting to see
Poppy and Nori and some of the others cried as well over their dead. The mention of the Bees did not strike me as making fun of somebody. More like to brighten the mood a bit. If one knows a relative or close friend very well, one might be allowed to make a light "joke", even if in grief. I remember a funeral and the daughter of the deceased person made a "joke" that her father was not always on time and so he also did not not die when the doctor said he would and lived a bit longer (she found really good words to express that). All laughed a bit and it was not considered unfitting. Got similar vibes from this "bees" comment.
@@ThePhilosophersGames yeah maybe you right. But after that little Orc prayer I like to think they went out to the field and burried Glog. That's what I named him. "Though he had but few years to walk Middle Earth, Glog was an old soul, a fierce warrior, and an even better friend." May Glog rest in peace.
But I agree, the portrayal of the orcs was also pretty interesting. I think this "leave people behind" concept gives the Harfoots am weird twist, which I find interesting, though it could be, like Tim (Hello Future Me) said, just not intended.
Yes red this idea a lot, but I don't think so. Imo Maglor's story as son of Fëanor was already told and completed. Bringing him back would be not fitting. I guess even though hec committed many terrible deeds, he paid the price for it. Making him into a bad guy looking out for revenge would feel cheap and out of character imo.
I know that this theory has a lot of issues (especially lore related issues) but I'm 70% sure that Adar is Maglor in ROP. I really hope I'm wrong. There are many things ROP are doing that are brutally changing or disrespecting Tolkien anyway. But here are my reasons for thinking this. 1. Adar asked Arondir if he was born by the "Mouth of the river"? And said he went there once when he was young. So Mouths of Sirion? Elwing possessed a Silmaril and dwelt at Mouths of Sirion - Third Kinslaying. 2. Adar has a gauntlet with spikes on one hand but not the other - burned hand maybe from the silmaril? 3. He could be called Adar because he adopted Elros and Elrond and was like a "father" to them. Kind nature. As I said before, I hope I'm wrong.
Galadriel is the main problem with this show. She is extremely one dimensional and one note and becomes tiresome to watch. Also, to he driven by revenge or vengeance to me seems to be a very un-elf like quality. She honestly bears more resemblance to Thorin Oakenshield in terms of personality than she does Galadriel and behaves more like a dwarf than an elf. She also solves every problem with violence or aggression and is snarky and confrontational with almost everyone she meets. This makes her extremely unlikeable. Again, the writers have plenty of time to turn this around but it's so odd they chose to write her like this from the beginning. I love mostly everything else. Elrond is brilliantly written and the actor is perfect. Khazad Dum in general is an good storyline. Arondir is actually my favorite character so far.
Yes in a way she is closer to some of the First Age Elves, like Fëanor and his sons, which were also driven. I think with the later ages and after the War of Wrath Elves became wiser and so out perception of those also defines how we expect them to be and the Galadriel in RoP subverts our expectation greatly. Like if this would be a First Age show and it would be not Galadriel, but let's say Fëanor, we might have praised the writing.
@@ThePhilosophersGames exactly, she seems like an 18 year old Bruce Wayne who just saw his parents murdered in front of him a few years ago, his quest for revenge feels more understandable. She does not seem like a semi-divine creature with thousands of years behind her. She seems to have almost no wisdom. Hopefully she learns some over the course of the show.
At the End of All Things, someone should get the courage to say this to Mr. Bezos: "You are a delivery guy. You figured out how to deliver packages efficiently. This made you a billionaire... but that doesn't mean your are cultured or sophisticated or smart. You are, and you always be a a delivery guy. So, stay with you know best, deliver gizmos, get richer, enjoy life. Stop publicly embarrassing yourself messing up with cultural concepts you cannot ever comprehend by hiring puerile incompetents to paint your comic-book visions ."
You are aware that Amazon is a mega corporation, which makes most money with cloud services these days and that Bezos did not write the The Rings of Power script? He paid for it I guess. Further film making is always a team effort 😅
Sorry to disagree but to each their own. I personally love the series and find it engaging. I have been a Tolkien fan since 1977 and will be watching this series moving forward.
I will also continue to watch and so far I liked episode 2 and 3 most. 1 was also decent. Only episode 4 felt strange to me. I wish they would have brought Galadriel earlier to Númenor so they could do what Galadriel did in episode 4, in two episodes instead of one. I would also say some of the big moments in episode 4 wer done pretty well and I enjoyed them, but just some stuff happening in between felt off. But glad you enjoy the show!
Thanks Chris. I value your opinion and it's great to hear what you thoughts. I guess my own expectations are a bit less and I haven't found much to be disappointed about so far. But I understand your reasoning too. I know what you mean about the feeling of being already half way through the first season and it hardly feels like it's getting started. I wish there were at least 12 episodes in each season... maybe more.
Yes the show at times feels like they plan on 15 episodes per season 😂 But I also see some good stuff in it. But glad you enjoyed the episode. I e.g. now liked episode 5 much more and look forward to episode 6. (Also sorry for the late answer)
The visuals of the show have been stunning and there has been nothing in the show that has offended my Tolkien brain yet. I am in a seeming minority who actually really likes Galadriel’s character so far. All that said the writing has been lacking for me too, I hope it is just the attempt to set up enough for 4 more seasons. I’m cautiously optimistic.
That is quite weird, but interesting somebody likes Galadriel! I mean...even in the book her early character was overtly proud and she was using people and entire races just to her will as pawns.That is not nice so i can see why they paint her as arrogant and zealous. But they also show her as socially inapt, as immature, as borderline self-hurting (sea ju,ping!)..they really do everything to make her look unlikeable. The only person she connects with, apart of Elrond, is Halbrand who should be the last person to actually trust... but she pretty much insults everybody elsye and gets thrown in prison 😂
@@Aurora2097 Her trusting Halbrand certainly feels a bit off to me, but the rest of the things you listed feel to me very much like PTSD. I love that her trauma has resulted in a fight or flight response that she will have to overcome throughout the show in order to become the character we all already know and love.
I like how you are still able to be quite neutral in the opinion about the show, for me this show is more and more showing that the creators are incapable of removing their modern political ideologies and worldview and create a Tolkien story, for Galadriel she is the "hollywoodian" stereotypical girl boss, who they (showrunners) want to forcefully make female characters to act as males, and with the actress not being great (the faces she makes... ugh) it makes a character that has the potential of being a great lead they turned her into a more or less joke. For plot conveniancies, they are to be expected there will be more of them, they are predictable and they will not improve. As for Halbrand, well he is... you know who... they will make him into a never better Aragorn just to then suddenly twist him into... you know... As for things like timeline and book relevancy, this episode just moves it even more away from the source material, and it will get worse. Expect next episodes to be some "flashy" action, that will again be full of plot convient events
I think their political views are not the problem of the show. Galadriel is also imo not a "hollywoodian stereotypical girl boss". She is just bad at diplomacy and very angry. I don't like how she is written either.
Well it's a matter of opinion vs opinion I guess, but we will probably agree that they messed up a lot of characters For me fantasy is still the way to escape from real life problems, dramas, etc, but when they start putting it into my fantasy settings I just get angry, and from this episode go to the Pharazon scene, the only thing that I missed in the end was him saying "we shall make numenor great again"
The series is a “spectacular” but empty, useless vessel . Too much CGI, terrible dialogue and it’s much too busy jumping all over the place with no time for any one storyline to develop fully. It’s pretty enough if briefly looked at from afar but if you slow down and REALLY examine it, the illusion fades and it doesn’t hold up 🤷
