Episode W - Living with the Missoula Floods w/ Jon Shellenberger 

As an older non student that stumbled onto your site pre Covid, I cannot express how much I have discovered about the area that I was raised and continue to live. The back story content that you include is why I have continued to stay hooked on this wonderful learning site. The community and guests that actively contribute to this content is proof that you are on the right track. Thank you.

Holy cow nick, those letters were fireworks! That explanation and drawing of the lower coulee is gold, and then the back and forth. We need a few more episodes.

Just want to say I have lurked here on a regular basis for a long, long time. In 1960s my husband and I migrated to Vancouver BC and spent '64 - '67 (with a year out in Texas) camping / exploring the #PNW. I found your site when searching for Klamath stories ... and have attended class ever since. Thank you from an old teacher for both the topic AND the teaching style. It has been entrancing finding out so much I wish I had known when I was there, especially the First Nation information. VERY grateful to you, your contributors AND my fellow students' contributions.

The idea that only indigenous people should have an intimate, reciprocal relationship with the land is a continuing tragedy that lets the rest of us 'misc' people off the hook. It's not just *their* responsibility, even though we should all be grateful for their militant advocacy. Absolutely everyone should think of the land as their mother and other animals as siblings, because they are, even scientifically speaking; it's the only way to get your mind right in respect to environmental values. Thanks Jon, you rock.

You two must make a series about geology and old wisdom combined!

Two thumbs up for delving into the recently discovered notes and documents from Bretz, Large, et al. It's fascinating stuff for all of us who are not geologists. It's a great story about the passion of scientists who devote their lives to discovering truths about our distant past. Nick, your genius for story telling is a wonderful gift. Thank you.

JON - Thanks for the great stuff. Look forward to Nick's future collaborations with you. And SO AWESOME to have DFW staff working their "homelands". Thanks for working to save the sagebrush environments that are left. NICK - I personally LOVE all the letters and articles. You can rattle on as long as you want with that stuff AFAIC. Re your question from previous episode re how we watch: I'm usually multitasking with something while sitting in front of my Samsung tablet, streaming in replay. I caught more live during the pandemic. I'm retired so I can manage the 3 hr vids. Very much enjoying this series and your approach.

YES! BRING BEAVERS BACK!!! I 100% AGREE. 😊❤

THESE LECTURES TEACHES US ABOUT OUR PAST AND HELP US TO UNDERSTAND THE RICH ROCK HISTORY THAT YOU ARE DUSCUSING, EXPLAINING AND TEACHING US, SO THAT IN TURN WE ARE ABLE TO LEARN HOW TO LIVE AND APPRECIATE OUR WORLD. BRETZ AND ALL EARLY GEOLOGIST STILL HAVE A VOICE IN THESE DISCUSSIONS. THANK YOU TO ALL.

@nick Since you ended our program today with a Mr Rogers moment, I'm going to share with you my favorite Mr Rogers quote. "On our program I try to look through the camera into the eyes of a single child and speak to him or her, trying to be fully present to their feelings and their needs" - We Zetnerds in many ways relate to you as the Mr Rogers of geology. Thank you again for just being you!

Really a treat to hear John’s perspectives and oral history

I hope you do get a chance to do videos with Jon. It is a viewpoint we seldom get to see.

Jon is so compelling. I enjoyed this so very, very much, Nick.

I love "preserve and protect the land FOREVER." Also respect to ALL languages.

Oh yes! I look forward to field episodes with you and John S.!!!!!❤

Matt from Topsham, Maine! I’ve watched every episode in replay! Thank you Nick!

I loooove the old time articles, maps, stories!!!! Keep them coming.

Oh wow... I just have to say wow!! I enjoyed the visit with Jon, thank you!💗💫 Sharon, Ken,,,, many other viewers just like us that have contributed to this series in their/our own ways, it's just magnificent...💫💞 Nick's story time reading those letters of the early 1930's between Harley, Davis, Flint, and Large, is just wow amazing, and tickles my vivid imagination!! I have to say time after time, thank you for sticking with us all these years!!💞💗😄✨

I made it right to the end! It only took me close to 5 hours while doing other things 🤣 great show, I very much appreciate Jon coming and sharing the history and stories of his peoples. I’m very interested in learning more. I love the correspondence between the different people in the form of letters, it really humanises these people we are learning so much about, I also really enjoy the way they use their language. It’s great. Keep it up! 👍

Most when confronted, may have given up. Bretz however never even considered defeat. Bretz truly was a man ahead of his time. Thank you for leading us toward a understanding of the scientific process. Professor Zientner for you hard work and time. Stay safe ALL

Congrats, Nick, on an incredible series!!! I just let the series keep playing after we finished with Z today. I kind of want to go back and redo the whole series AGAIN, even though I've already watched every episode in replay at least 1x. Thanks for helping put The Oregon Territory's geologic history into Context!!!

(1:43:20 in the above video) Hey, Nick. Just a little something I noticed during the live stream where you were showing the cover of Bretz's paper that was sent to Flint. The title of it was "ALTERNATE HYPOTHESIS FOR CHANNELED SCABLAND" (Bretz, JH. (1928a). Someone had penciled in a correction to the word ALTERNATE. You said it appeared that there wasn't a typo, and wondered why Flint would want to insert the letter "N" for some reason. When I saw it, I thought it was a correction to add the letters "IV", which would change the word from ALTERNATE to ALTERNATIVE in the title. I wondered if Bretz did the correction himself due to a printing/publishing error, and if this "correction" showed up that way on any other existing copies of it. If not, I wonder why Flint would feel the need to change the title. (At the urging of Bretz? Snarkiness?). It would slightly change the meaning of the title. If that is Flints own penciled in line underneath it reading "The most informative single paper", it doesn't seem like he'd feel a need to correct anything at all. Like I said, it just makes ya wonder! Thanks, Nick. EDIT: The penciled cursive writing looks like Bretz's handwriting. Anyone else think so? EDIT #2: I think "ALTERNATE" was a mistake from the printer/publisher of the copies. I found these in the Journal Of Geology showing the titles using "ALTERNATIVE". Alternative Hypotheses for Channeled Scabland. I J Harlen Bretz The Journal of Geology, Vol. 36, No. 3 (Apr. - May, 1928), pp. 193-223 Alternative Hypotheses for Channeled Scabland. II J. Harlen Bretz The Journal of Geology, Vol. 36, No. 4 (May - Jun., 1928), pp. 312-341

What a great stream. I love to see the tie between cultural anthropology, archaeology, and geology. We have so much to learn outside our ingrained perspectives.

Nick, I just finished watching Episode W Feb 8, just a wee bit behind. You finish your sessions with a "here's to you" callout and I want to give one in return. In addition to your great informative presentations, I really enjoy your enthusiasm for your subject. I know there are very many of us who are grateful for the time and energy you put into these great episodes. I look forward to finishing to Z and going through some of the research provided to find a few more nuggets. Thanks.

After years of watching nicks shows, This is the one i have been waiting years for,

Excellent show. I love all the old letters and your take on them. Keep up the good work. Thx also to Jon.

Funny, there has been a big push by environmentalists in our area of SE PA to remove low head dams(left over from old mills). I was able to save our dam when I discussed with PA beaver expert and learned there should be a dam every half a mile on our creek...dams were the natural way...beaver dams.

Hey Nick & Team! You Few are Special, Amazing, Loving People. Loved your Solo Nick. I think it speaks to your Character. Thank You All Very Much!!!!

I love everything you're doing. You're a pure hearted academic.

Takes me awhile, thank you. loved every minute.

1814 and already Easterners are marveling at the Grand Coulee! Think about it! Only nine years after the Lewis and Clark "Voyage of Discovery". I think that's remarkable!

The letters in question are INSANELY valuable as historical documents. As a general rule, historians would crawl over broken glass to access this kind of correspondence related to historically significant events.

The Stories are the Best! 🙂

I enjoy your videos so much. Thank you.

Watching the replay😎😎😎😎😎

Thank you Jon, thank you Nick.

Thank you, nick!!! Missed it.. had family issues ... needed loving prayers, all morning... will catch up.. so sorry, I could not be here 😢

I studied geology at Madison and we were still using stereoscopic aerial images in 2003. You don’t have to go all the way back to 84 to find that.

You are my friend, you are special, Nick! Ba ba bum ba da da dee dee do 🎶

Thoroughly enjoyed ALL of this - thank you, Jon, Nick & all contributors!

Save the sage steepe! Loving this.

Your approach on this keeps me very interested in learning more. I live at the bottom of Glacial Lake Columbia and all of the information you've provided helps me understand what I'm looking at on my hikes. It also increases my curiosity to understand it better. At first it made no sense as to why I could find so many different types of sediment, till, loess, basalt, etc, in such a haphazard mix. Thank you.

I'm just getting started here and I'm thrilled to hear this perspective. My background is in philosophy and for years I've been scratching to understand what people were thinking in societies that hadn't developed writing. So, studying oral traditions as a means of getting at that history has been a matter of special intrigue for me. The use of songs to record history seems like a particularly brilliant development in human evolution. The more we learn about this, the better off we all are. But unfortunately this has been looked upon with disdain by arrogant "Western" academics who have seen it as less-than-civilized or worse. The oral traditions of many societies have suffered a kind of "book burning." It's a tragedy to human collective understanding. That's my perspective having just begun watching. I'm going to be hanging on every word!

Very satisfying Nick. thank you

Thanks again Nick! Thoroughly enjoyable to the bitter (kidding) end! Loving the letters, enjoying the playfulness of Bretz’s accounts, and unfortunately recognizing the less-than-forthright tactics of Flint’s description of Bretz’s supposed support of Flints alternative hypothesis…. That and the Hodge-ites…. Conflict like that would suck the joy out of it all for me in a heartbeat…. Bretz was clearly more resilient than I!

Wow amazing interview. I’m looking him up, thank you Nick

Hola from Spain … stayed with you … Thanks Jon for sharing … thanks for sticking to your “value” system.

Right back at you

Omg! I so loved the spontaneous reading of Bretz's letter!!! So delightful 😂❤

I am getting a little lost in all the digressions, but I love the historical stuff and the human story. I presume that when you do your public lectures you'll have a summarized version of the main facts about the floods and I'll be able to bring it all together. I hope someone does write a book about this rather grand, sweeping scientific adventure.

At 2:30:01........ Ken at Sand Point ....Thank You Sir, A beautiful map with wonderful details ( read / study the Map Legend First ).

About the “Alternatve Hypothesis” typo correction…. I believe the correction is not an N but is the letters IV. It looks like an N, but the writer is changing the word from ALTERNATE to ALTERNATIVE. IMO.

Imagine when the Beavers were 6 foot tall…that would mess up a rivers day lol

It was a long time getting there, but it went by fast.🤣. Thanks Nick.

Bravo !

Let's find out who this character Hodge was. If you make any headway on that one with the Zentner sleuths, please let us know in a future episode. Meanwhile, stay well, oh Fearless Leader! ❤ back atcha!

This is an epic.

Wouldn't it be marvelous if someone could unearth a recording of Bretz's radio broadcast? Something similar happened with Edward R. Murrow's famous broadcasts from London during WWII. At the time, CBS's corporate policy strictly prohibited affiliates from recording network news feeds. In contravention of that policy, KIRO in Seattle surreptitiously recorded Murrow's and other CBS News reports on 33 1/3 wax disks in the days before recording tape had been invented. In the late 1950s or early '60s a University of Washington student intern working at KIRO discovered dusty crates of the WWII disks languishing in the station's transmitter building on Vashon Island! Realizing the historical value of the recordings, KIRO donated them to UW's Communications Department where they were painstakingly transcribed onto audio tape. To my knowledge, they are the only surviving recordings of Murrow's and other CBS war correspondents' reports in existence today. Could the Bretz broadcast have been similarly recorded, and be mouldering away in some radio station's basement? Maybe an enterprising member of Zentner's sleuths can dig it up it. What a find that would be!

❤❤❤❤

Kamiak pronounced: Cam' ee ack Almota pronounced: Al moh' tah Colfax boy always glad to help with local names!

👍❣🦫💯 Looking forward to more with Jon. I miss Randy. Love his stories❣

I don't think the general public can imagine the competitive spirit of some scientists. I once was at an endothelial cell conference where all the talks in the am were on why nitrous oxide was the main controller of respiration...the afternoon talks were why it was not...a lot of heated debate and discussions ensued. It was my first conference and I came away in awe. The really big well funded labs would buy all the chemicals needed for certain controls so other labs could not run the experiment....lot of tooth and dagger stuff.

"old stuff" is great.

John S. Shelton / R.F. Flint at Yale. Hey, Nick At 2:12:32 in the video, you had a little laugh wondering if John S. Shelton may have been a student of R.F. Flint while at Yale. Well, he may have. I found a PDF showing a pic of faculty member Flint with grad student Shelton together on campus in 1938 (pg. #16 of the PDF). Also, on page #14 there are a few paragraphs about R.F. Flint. It seems fitting, in "our" case here, that the last 2 sentences about Flint are : "He was also the losing protagonist in a long-continued debate over the origin of the channeled scablands. Flint ridiculed J Harlen Bretz's suggestion that the unique topography resulted from a catastrophic flood and he was overly dogmatic in his rejection of the idea". The original article appeared in the Geological Society of America Centennial Special Volume 1 - 1985 The title of the article was: "Rummaging through the attic; Or, A brief history of the geological sciences at Yale" by Skinner/Narendra. I don't know how else to get this to you, so I'm posting the link to the PDF: earth.yale.edu/sites/default/files/files/Dana%20Club/Skinner_Narendra_1985.pdf Hope this finds you. Thanks, Nick.

I really enjoy the letters. In the sentence that you were reading where you were not sure what the word was and said, "something" caused me to replay that section and zoom in on the letter. To me, the word looks like "moraine." If you substitute the word something with the word moraine, would the sentence make sense to you?

Toppenish WA

At 1:57:19: Into the elephant grass with only a pocket knife..yes. This hand drawn map on U of C stationary shows the Pinto Ridge anticline, an unnamed anticline, and Lenore Canyon, ect. Fast forward to 1978, Wa. Dept of Natural Resources Bulletin No. 71, by Grolier and Bingham.The study area was from Dry Falls to Pasco. Pages 61 - 68, Bretz is cited/mentioned at least twice for the two anticlines on the U of C stationary map along with the "Bacon Syncline" ( which Bretz named subsequent ). Some structures in the Grand Coulee area trend NE to SW. Further south the fold and faults trend NW to SE. Ok.... enough is enough...waiting for Sunday.

DID BRETZ EVER TALKED WITH THE FIRST PEOPLE , ABOUT LINGUISTIC HISTORY OF ICE AND FLOODS?

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So why bother to collect all this information just to bury it? Being buried is what has happen to it already.

The talking is a more part of the series, facts are out there, the talk says so. Keep sharing all that 'stuff'. Thank you, it's your mistake to make!

Your singing sounded much like Gene Wilder in Willy Wonka & the chocolate factory 🍫🍬🍭🥂😊

The Alternate hypothesis has a IV added to make it Alternative which is better.

Native history in the Americas has been moved back to a time before the last ice age to a time on no ice by palentolog, study of fauma in ice age and archeology. Selah!

What all the stuff about proprietary knowledge I thought the whole idea with science was everything is open to discussion and review???!!

That's "alternative"

In one way I’m looking forward to episode Z, But it also means you have Finished 😢, which is very Disappointing.