Eternal Torment Believers Are Nuts 

Only Satan would want to eternally torture human being.

This eternal torment belief was making me to stay away from God.

Jesus, you have delivered me from false doctrine of "hell/eternal torment" and I praise your Holy Name for that, thank you for delivering me from a spirit of "religion" my God I am free, free from the chains that have bound me for so long (37 years), I see your Spirit moving to set the captives free, Jesus there are a lot of people commenting here that are still bound, my prayer today in front of God and man is that you will set free all who read my words, Thank you in advance, Amen! Love u God!

Yes, if you look in the Literal concordance Bible there is no everlasting torment for unbelievers but an Age Abiding Correction.

I'm finding that every person who believes in universal salvation has done years of studying it far more in depth than anyone refuting it. I believed in eternal hell as easy as a child believes in Santa, however I'm on almost 3 years of deep study and keep being more convinced of universal reconciliation. Yet I'm still in study mode. I don't think anyone comes to this position until they read God's words, meditated on it, searched out the scriptures and root words, prayed continually, and looked equally into all positions and studied church history, and learned God's character through His word. The refuting side offers much less and yes seems cultic, something passed down to be accepted without questioning it and when it's questioned they label you unsaved and a heretic. Just because your want to STUDY it!

Thank you so much. I thought I was all alone here. I've looked and looked and can find nothing Jesus said or did that would indicate a forever burning in hell. God bless you. and please stay strong on this topic. I'm sharing this with others now.

It took more than 50 years, but I FINALLY came to the conclusion that the wicked DON'T suffer for eternity. And I met an "eternal torment" NUT-job who called me a "blasphemer" for believing God is too merciful to EVER allow such a thing! A "blasphemer"! Someone like that CANNOT be reasoned with, and I don't waste too much time with people who are simply unteachable. Their minds are made up, and they REFUSE to consider ANY other option.

Common question: "So, you're saying we are free to sin it up and do whatever we want?" Response: "No, we are free to love people in spite of their sins."

Through my own experience, sin does degrade me. It took away the childlike innocence I once had! The wages of sin really is death!

One thing that always struck me as odd when someone looks at me and says "brother, have you heard the gospel? The good news?". It never seemed to be good news to me....your going to hell, and unless you suffer, deny yourself and learn to hate your life to follow Jesus, your going to burn forever...what in the hell is good news about that? It always struck me as odd that we have an enemy that wants to steal, kill and destroy...who wants to see us dead..and the only other option we have is a God...who is always angry with us...who sacrificed his only son so that when he looks at us through him, he is not angry. That if we do not keep the faith, if we screw up, if we ...like myself, were damaged and abused by a cult that ruined our lives and find it almost impossible to feel love....and constantly struggle with talking to and trusting God...even when we beg...will be sent to hell forever if we do not figure it out fast. One wants us dead and the other will kill us if we do not find the character and fortitude to be holy and keep the faith of someone who died over 2000 years ago for us.. ruined my life...and I cant find a way out.

As a very young child 5,or 6 yrs of age, I vividly remember not being able to reconcile a loving God with eternal tournament. It never agreed with my spirit. So refreshing to hear Martin speak out so boldly on this topic.

He's absolutely right. For my whole life, I was unable to resolve the doctrine of eternal torment in my mind with the character of God. In 2016 After analyzing John 3, I erroneously came to the more satisfying conclusion that people who do not accept Jesus were never real people at all, that they were never conscious on the inside, and that the devil had been making fake humans since the fall of man. This is what I was believing in the hours before I started to have a brief psychotic episode, by far the most horrific experience of my life for me and for my parents. I literally lost my mind. My mind did recover, and shortly afterwards I became a Christian Universalist.

Martin Zender - YOU DA MAN! I also was "brainwashed" into believing that false doctrine. Now, I see the love of God and its a whole lot easier for me to go to Him.

Nuts is going to far, I agree the idea is nuts, but they aren't. The people that are nuts are the ones that look at a bunch of evidence against eternal torment and don't want to believe. It's sick that some people literally WANT that. I used to believe in eternal torment, when I was younger. Then when I realized it was BS, I became atheist. But then I saw an article that proves eternal torment wrong, and I am now Christian.

It's taken me a long time of wrestling with this idea. The thought in my own head went like this, " If God created us in His image, and I would NEVER torment ANYONE for an eternity, then just how does God do it ". It's taken a long time, and even typing this it still feels a little uncomfortable to say, but I don't believe eternal torment is what the Bible teaches. Not anymore. I believe the Bible teaches that the nonbeliever will be destroyed. I think their are some scriptures that are difficult because of the many years that they have been applied to eternal torment. But if you read it, it doesn't " REALLY " say that, not exactly. I mean a person could reason it says that, but you can also reason it doesn't say that either. It just makes no sense that a loving God would torture His Son on the cross, in order to redeem humanity, only to send those who don't believe in that Son to a hell and torture them in the same way or worse. I can't get with eternal torment, but I can get with eternal destruction. Losing your right to eternal life make better sense. It actually makes sense. I don't believe that everyone is eventually saved. I don't think the Bible teaches that at all. Their is a reward for believing, and that reward is eternal life. I think nonbelievers are just no more, they have their right to existence stripped. That makes better sense.

God loves you. Just ask Him and He'll tell you as he stands beside the furnace waiting to toss you and most people into it forever. Yup, makes sense to me.

I'm sure God reveals the truth to at least a few people each day. Let us keep teaching. Let us keep helping people.Thank God for the internet and thank God for the scriptures.

Is it rare for a Christian not to believe in eternal torment? Or no? I see muslims questioning eternal torment as well as many other religions. Was this inevitable?

The scriptures do teach punishment but its not forever. Certainly its not for all eternity.

@555pontifex Speaking of ignoring scripture, you do just that by ignoring the context of Matthew 25. This is a judgement of living nations at the time of the Lords's return, and it determines their lot during the 1000-yr. Kingdom. It is most certainly NOT the eternal judgment of all mankind. Wake up and smell the context, dude.

i heard a radio program a long time ago that taught it like this, when one strikes a match, it burns, and it flames. but it eventually goes out, but that match is eternally burned. it isn't still on fire. i think it was J Vernon McGee ? i cant be sure.

perfect love casts out fear. There are two types of fear - terror, and respect. Does Yahweh, the God who 'is love' expect us to be terrified, petrified and live our lives depressed and broken. Or does he expect us to fear (as in honour, respect, love) him? A word study on the original Greek would benefit you much :P And you absolutely CANNOT disobey His commands and still be gods - no universalist would assert that. We keep His commands because it is for our own good.

Jesus was quoted as saying Gehenna eleven times, a word which we have translated as hell. Hell is also known as the valley of hinnom or Topheth. Jerusalem's garbage dump.

Not so much nuts more evil. They want anyone unlike themselves to suffer eternal torment and then tell you 'no we love and feel for them' etc etc.

It doesn't matter how far a person can wax lyrical with fancy apologetics to explain away the issue. Eternal torment and a perfectly loving God are two diametrically opposing, contradictory, antithetical ideas.

Mat 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels. If it is written, BELIEVE IT. If Jesus said it, BELIEVE IT.

Jesus's comment that God will "destroy" body and soul certainly sounds like final destruction rather than "eternal torment".

The idea of hell seems incompatible, illogical with a so-called God of Love. Which raises other problems...like how did Christendom come to include hell in its theology.

My wife died of cancer 4 years ago, Her main concern was ...was she going To hellfire, this occupied her for the last 7 Days of her life .yes she died in terror And fear of hell although she was a Lutheran. The jury is out with me although it is a dogmatic doctrine..

The book that helped me understand the restitution of all thing more than anything was a book by Andrew Jukes called the Restitution of All. It was written in the 1800s and walks you through the bible proving beyond a doubt Jesus was indeed successful in his commission from God.

1 Timothy 4:10 That is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, and especially of those who believe. The total victory of Christ has the answers to universal reconciliation, and it’s biblical, the word Aionon is used for ages past and future, and that’s the word they used for eternal.

K.J.V 1 Timothy chap 4 v 9-11 For therefore we both labor and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of ALL men, specially of those that believe.

Adam and Eve sinned and so God threw them out of Eden we are told in the bible. The reason given is that God didn't want them to eat from the tree of life and live forever in their fallen state. Eating from the tree of life would have made them eternal beings. So we know that mankind are not born eternal. So when my fellow Christians say that we are born eternal and that we either go to one place or the other they are wrong. When we die we go back to the ground from which God created us. At the time God chooses he will resurrect both the saved and the unsaved. The saved will go to heaven with Christ and the unsaved will be tossed into the lake of fire where they will be destroyed that is why it is called the second death.

Because "hell" in that passage is a mistranslation of the Greek word "Gehenna", NOT "Hades" (the grave/unseen/world of the dead). Gehenna was an actual place in the Valley of Hinnom. In Jesus' day it was where people took their garbage to be incinerated. (Today, it's a garden.) God is described in scripture as a "consuming (or purifying) fire". What does he consume? Sin! The parable of the rich man and Lazarus has nothing to do with avoiding "hell".

You are right on Martin. "God preached the Gospel unto Abraham saying, In thy seed shall ALL people be blessed - Galatians 3:8. Reading Acts 3:19-26 got me studying the Bible deeper. Yes, the Second Death is the death of death, Jesus being unveiled in us, then after that in Rev 21, you see the refined Bride.

As still a young believer, I'm trying to understand this all myself.All my Christian life, I was taught to think along the lines of eternal torment and had more of a reformed perspective.I'm not dismissing what's taught in this video, I'm just wondering if there is anyone who would be willing to take me step by step through this thinking process b/c my natural inclination is to think it heresy.(to be continued...)

Everyone quotes the bible that it says eternal and forever and nowhere in original texts does it ever mention anything as eternal or forever if ur bible has these words on it its a mistranslation

Eternal torment is a lie Ezekiel 28:18 makes it clear that the devil and the wicked will be annihilated in the Lake of Fire

In fact the greatest argument against eternal torture imo is this. God himself will be in hell for all eternity. By that I mean his heart is. This dawned on me one afternoon after over a week of wrestling with the idea of hell. Knowing that tens of billions of members of his creation are suffering in fire and chain and darkness and despair and hopelessness and devils and flesh eating worms without end would break his heart for the rest of his sad existence. That number includes people like: those who lived before Christ, those who never heard the gospel, those who never gave god a chance again because of genuine tragedy in their life, and your own unbelieving loved ones for whom you yourself would even go to great lengths to save if you could. In such a future, we the saved ones who supposedly have our memory of suffering wiped would be the only ones in complete joy. (But not really since even the idea that we can have true happiness whilst our creator is agonizing is ludicrous ) Also are any of you parents? Cutting off a relationship with your child if they had done something wrong (or even many things wrong) is painful and violates your innate sense of good parenthood. That goes true even without knowing that they are experiencing physical and mental torture at every second of every day of every month of every year for the rest of their existence. God the perfect father isn’t so bull-headed and malevolent as do the very thing that he ordained would violate your soul when he created your emotional complex.

Logical deduction. God wills all people to be saved God counsels all thing according to His will Therefor God will have all people be saved. Some are just self righteous who believe they're the only ones who deserve mercy because they perform some ritual. They don't understand the "agape" love of God. Either Christ is the savior of the world who took away the sins of the world, or He isn't. They want it both ways but it doesn't work like that.

Revelations is MASSIVELY symbolic. Unless you can explain what EVERY single detail means then you simply can't quote parts of it as literal. All sorts of cults and heresies have been built around literal interpretations of elements of Revelations. Do you even know what a lake of fire does? if death has already been destroyed? 1Corinthians 3:13 - 15 and "Everyone will be salted with fire" Mark 9:49

Hey thanks for the response, friend. I just know that people who believe in universal reconciliation have their own way of looking at the scriptures that claim otherwise and interpreting them. I'm not saying I accept their way, but I at least want to be open because I know I don't get things perfectly and could be wrong.But I did have uneasy feelings about this doctrine, but I trust the Spirit, as Jesus said, would lead me into all truth.

So you have no problem with billions of people being tortured forever?

How could you possibly know what a false Gospel is if you have no idea what constitutes the REAL Gospel?

Great stuff - back to basics common sense and what we all know in our heart of hearts to be true!

@PrepTard Mat 19:29 And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or children or fields for my sake will receive a hundred times as much and will inherit eternal life Mat 25:46 "Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life." Sudy to show yourself approved, May God help you.

Causing the children of the children of Israel to pass through the fire was an abomination that never even entered the mind of God. Are we really supposed to believe he would do this himself after declaring it as an abomination? Jer7:31 And they have built the high places of Tophet, which is in the valley of the Son of Hinnom, to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire; which I commanded them not, neither came it into my heart. Jer19:5 They have built also the high places of Baal, to burn their sons with fire for burnt offerings unto Baal, which I commanded not, nor spake it, neither came it into my mind: Jer32:35 And they built the high places of Baal, which are in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to cause their sons and their daughters to pass through the fire unto Molech; which I commanded them not, neither came it into my mind, that they should do this abomination, to cause Judah to sin.

Forever and Ever in most translation of the bible is a mistranslation. The word there in the Greek is the plural form of the word Aion, which means age. The Greek reads to the ages of the ages in Rev 20:10. Most bible interpreters believe in eternal torment so they believe the Greek phrase to the ages of the ages means forever and ever and thus paraphrase the text as such. This is wrong. Numerous times in the New Testament the word Aion has a beginning, middle and an end. There are aion(plural) in the past, we are in a present aion, and there are going to be aion(plural) in the future, there is also an end(singular) of the aion (plural), and an ends (plural) of the aion (plural). Aion means an age. You cannot have plural past eternities/forevers/everlastings, a present eternity/forever/everlasting, and future plural eternities/forevers/everlastings. But you can have ages (plural) in the past. A present age, and futures ages (plural) culminating in an end of the ages, in which the ends of the ages being complete (multiple ages began and ended until the final age which to will end). The ages will end. There is an end to the ages. Jesus did not offer people eternal life; he offered them age-abiding life. Understand this; you lose NOTHING by Jesus offering age-abiding life vs. age-abiding punishment. Jesus came to save all; those that have age-abiding life simply get into the kingdom early. The rest have to go through the age abiding punishment before entering into the kingdom. You don’t lose your salvation when the ages end, the rest who did not get age abiding life simply get their salvation later on, from sin and death by being made immortal and justified (he who is justified cannot sin, sin is not reckoned unto his account). Right now only believers are justified and are awaiting immortality. Eternal torment is the difference between Jesus saving 1% of the world and Jesus saving 100% of the world. Aion is the noun, which means an age. Aionios is the adjective form of the noun. [Aionios Life, Aionios Punishment] Wood is a noun; wooden is the adjective form of the noun. Something that is wooden has the characteristics of wood. Sponge is a noun; Spongy is the adjective form of the noun. Something that is Spongy has the characteristics of a sponge. Metal is a noun, Metallic is the adjective form of the noun. Something that is Mettalic has the characteristics of Metal. Hour Noun, Hourly Adjective Day Noun, Daily Adjective Week Noun, Weekly Adjective Month Noun, Monthly Adjective Yearly Noun, Yearly Adjective Aion Noun, Aionios Adjective Age Noun, Age-Like or Age-Abiding Adjective Compare that to eternity: Eternity Noun, Eternal Adjective You can not have a singular eternity and a plural eternities , you can not have eternities in the past, a present eternity, and future eternities, and an end of the eternities, you can have ages in the past, a present age, ages in the future, and an end to the ages, as well as the ends of the ages (multiple ages have come and gone culminating in the final age which also ends)! Ages in the past Ephesians 3:9 and to enlighten all what is the administration of the mystery having been hidden from the ages[aion plural] in God, the One having created all things, Colossians 1:26 the mystery having been hidden from the ages[aion - plural] and from the generations, but now having been manifested to His saints, The present age Galatians 1:4 who gave Himself for our sins to rescue us from the present evil age[aion - singular], according to the will of our God and Father, 1 Timothy 6:17 As for the rich in this present age[aion - singular], charge them not to be haughty, nor to set their hopes on the uncertainty of riches, but on God, who richly provides us with everything to enjoy. The Future Age to come. Luke 18:30 will fail to receive many times more in this age[aion- singular noun] -and in the age[aion - singular noun] to come, eternal[aion adjective singular] life.” Ephesians 1:21 above every principality and authority and power and dominion, and every name being named, not only in this age[aion - singular], but also in the one coming. Future Ages to come Ephesians 2:7 in order that in the coming ages[aion - plural] He might display the surpassing riches of His grace, demonstrated by His kindness to us in Christ Jesus. Luke 1:33 and He will reign over the house of Jacob to the ages[aion - plural]. And of His kingdom there will be no end!" By the way Jesus STOPS rulling and reighning in 1 Cor 15:22-28, pay close attention to verses 24-25, where Jesus stops rulling after having perected the universe. Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, and today, and to the ages[aion-plural]. The END of the age (this age)! You can not have an end of eternity, forever, or everlasting Something that is everlasting can not end by definition. Matthew 13:39-40 39 and the enemy who sowed them is the devil. The harvest is the end of the age[aion-singular], and the reapers are angels. 40 Just as the weeds are gathered and burned with fire, so will it be at the end of the age[aion-singular]. Matthew 24:3 3 As he sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things be, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age[aion - singular]? The end of the ages 1 Corinthians 10:11 Now these things happened to them as types and were written for our admonition, to whom the ends[plural] of the ages[aion - plural] are arrived. Hebrews 9:26 26 for then he would have had to suffer repeatedly since the foundation of the world. But as it is, he has appeared once for all at the end[singular] of the ages[aion- plural] to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself. In the end there will be no more sin in the universe at the end of the ages. Now what about the lake of fire? Revelation 20:10 And the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur, into which the beast and the false prophet had already been thrown. There they will be tormented day and night forever[aion - plural] and[and is not in the greek, the word inbetween the first aion and the second aion is the greek word ton which is the diffinite article and means the] ever[aion -plural]. Here is a more literal Translation Youngs Literal Translation and the Devil, who is leading them astray, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where are the beast and the false prophet, and they shall be tormented day and night -- to the ages of the ages. Concordent Literal New Testament And the Adversary who is deceiving them was cast into the lake of fire and sulphur, where the wild beast and where the false prophet are also. And they shall be tormented day and night for the eons of the eons." Emphatic Diaglott and the accuser the one deceiving them, was cast into the lake of the fire and of the brimstone, where both the wild-beast and the false-prophets; and they will be tormented day and night for the ages of the ages. Rotherham Emphisized Bible and, the Adversary that had been deceiving them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where [were] both the wild-beast and the false-prophet; and they shall be tormented, day and night, unto the ages of ages. Barean Literal Bible And the devil, the one deceiving them, was cast into the lake of fire and of sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet also are; and they will be tormented day and night to the ages of the ages. proof that hell is not forever, the reason it says so in most bibles is a mistranslation of the words olam/aion/aionios www.hopebeyondhell.net/articles/further-study/eternity/ www.hopebeyondhell.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/UPDATE-Hope-Beyond-Hell-Chapter-1-AION1.pdf www.iswasandwillbe.com/what-is-aionios-life/ makepeacewithjesus.org/7-the-septuagint-part-2 goodnewsgospel.info/Studies/EHC/The%20Ages.html www.askelm.com/doctrine/d041101.htm www.askelm.com/doctrine/d041201.htm www.askelm.com/doctrine/d050101.htm thathappyexpectation.blogspot.com/2019/03/the-meaning-of-aion-in-new-testament.html thathappyexpectation.blogspot.com/2019/03/the-translational-inaccuracy-of-forever_11.html www.biblestudentsnotebook.com/bsn852.pdf [the pages are out of order] general links The guys below teach the 2 gospels truth (I can be wrong about this, but this is what I currently believe, first link explains the 2 gospels) ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-_lfwl_AP8k8.html goodnewsgospel.info/ thathappyexpectation.blogspot.com/ www.concordant.org/ www.gracetruth.co.uk/ martinzender.com/ www.concordantgospel.com/ www.biblestudentsnotebook.com/ www.studyshelf.com/videos/ www.reddit.com/r/ConcordantBelievers/comments/l7v56t/some_concordant_resources/ [lists youtube channels that teach this stuff] saviourofall.org/ livefaith.tv/richards-books/ goedbericht.nl/category/algemeen/ www.bibleanalytics.ca/index.html The guys below mix the two gospel into one, but their is much truth here bible-truths.com/ www.askelm.com/ www.iswasandwillbe.com/ godskingdom.org/ godsplanforall.com/ tentmaker.org/ makepeacewithjesus.org/ Save the links to a notepad documents and bookmark them for further reading.

Wow! I wouldn't have gone quite that far, but I have to say you are right! Do we as humans have more love for our children than God has for his??

Thank you for sharing you're thoughts Martin! I would like to comment on them. Mark 9:43-44 And if your hand offend you, cut it off: it is better for you to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: Where the worm dies not, and the fire is not quenched. Revelation 14:10-11 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out undiluted into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: And the smoke of their torment ascends up forever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receives the mark of his name. Revelation 20:14-15 And death and hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. It's evident that the final destination is the lake of fire (the second death) to those whose name are not written in the book of life. In other videos you posted saying that being dead means not to exist because you're dead...The scripture tells me that those cast into the lake of fire the second death have no peace day or night but are being tormented forever and ever. Torment is for those who are alive. Why Torment someone who is dead? So apparently the scripture has another idea of the second death then you do, and you cannot apply you're limited understanding of death as doctrine against the Word of God that speaks clearly of everlasting Torment that is the second death. The fact that scripture says the smoke of their Torment goes up forever and ever is the strongest opposition to you. Please respond to this.

Well, everyone, the bible doesn't really show eternal conscious torment but, only for certain groups like those who take the mark of the beast (Revelation 14:10-11), the devil, the beast and the false prophet (Revelation 20:10) and possibly the goats who didn't help the least of Jesus' brothers and sisters (Matthew 25:41-46) depending what is meant by eternal punishment. Now, depending on what is meant by eternal fire in Matthew 25:41 it may well be eternal conscious torment for all unrepentant sinners or just those groups I mentioned but I'm not sure. God is good!

The problem most people have is that they more often than not are reading from the KJV which is filled with errors and mistranslations. It's taken mostly from the Latin Vulgate which is another gross translation. When one reads the literal translation of the original Greek version of the Bible, the ultimate love and grace of almighty God is revealed. And it's bigger and more powerful than we ever could have imagined. His love and grace is inescapable.

The last two there are typical of eastern languages - full of exaggeration. Jesus is talking to the Pharisees, referring to the literal Valley of the Gehenna. Emphasising how shameful their end will be (funeral and honour are a big thing in Judaism). Well, day of judgement 70AD as many as 1.1 million Jews from Jerusalem (Pharisees, Sadducees etc) were killed by the Romans. Their literal bodies were piled up in the literal valley of Gehenna - read up on Jewish Roman history :P

i agree with him what kind of a loving merciful God would burn our loved ones in hell forever would any of you burn your children in hell forever how can anyone love a God that would do such a evil cruel thing like that i say to all of you who believe that God would do this are all liars saying you love God

Apo20:10And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are,and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever Apo20:14And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire.This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire Mat10:28And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul:but rather fear him which is able ...

I liked his comment that how a sane family consisting of man, woman and their children would ever consider putting their children into an everlasting torment of fire because of disobedience. It is only through a religion would they ever consider doing this. Taken for example from the bible where the Jewish people, those that God chose to be His people for all eternity, disobeyed God and were sending babies to death by burning them alive to the pagan god, Molech, in the Valley of Hinnom ( the same place becoming Gehenna in Christ's time in reference to the biblical Hell) of which God called a hideous abomination and punished Israel extensively for doing this. He is right! Only through a religion, being pagan or Christian, it is all the same results! Totally centuries brainwashing!

@xWhiteLightning Man I wish we can organize a debate between advocates and disputers of this teaching, it would be really interesting to hear both perspectives on verses like this and ones like them.Thanks for the response, friend.

The eternal torment (euphemism for torture) people will bring out the power hitters on their team and dish out the theological snow job. It's going to be a tough debate but I am convinced we have scholars along with scripture in the original language to win. Getting off the defensive end is a good place to start.

Hell is false !! But that doesn't give us the right to live sinful you still can be punished

AIONIOS (root AION- , aionos, aiona, aionou, aionion, aionwn, etc.) If aionios mean eternal, everlasting or an endless time, then "sunteleia tou aionos" mean "end of an endless time". When aionios comes after "sunteleia" the translations don't translate aionios as "endless time". They usually use "world" but not meaning the planet but an age, a system of things, a finite time. There is more verses with "tele tou aionion" (tele also means end). It is not eternal but have no mistake, what one sow, one will harvest. Some exemples from ASV: Matthew 013:039 ο δε εχθρος ο σπειρας αυτα εστιν ο διαβολος ο δε θερισμος *συντελεια του αιωνος* (sunteleia tou aionos) εστιν οι δε θερισται αγγελοι εισιν and the enemy that sowed them is the devil: and the harvest is the *end of the world*; and the reapers are angels. Matthew 013:040 ωσπερ ουν συλλεγεται τα ζιζανια και πυρι κατακαιεται ουτως εσται εν τη *συντελεια του αιωνος* (sunteleia tou aionos) τουτου As therefore the tares are gathered up and burned with fire; so shall it be in the *end of the world*. Matthew 013:049 ουτως εσται εν τη *συντελεια του αιωνος* (sunteleia tou aionos) εξελευσονται οι αγγελοι και αφοριουσιν τους πονηρους εκ μεσου των δικαιων So shall it be in the *end of the world*: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the righteous, Matthew 024:003 καθημενου δε αυτου επι του ορους των ελαιων προσηλθον αυτω οι μαθηται κατ ιδιαν λεγοντες ειπε ημιν ποτε ταυτα εσται και τι το σημειον της σης παρουσιας και της *συντελειας του αιωνος* (sunteleia tou aionos) And as he sat on the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what [shall be] the sign of thy coming, and of the *end of the world*? Matthew 028:020 διδασκοντες αυτους τηρειν παντα οσα ενετειλαμην υμιν και ιδου εγω μεθ υμων ειμι πασας τας ημερας εως της *συντελειας του αιωνος* (sunteleia tou aionos) αμην teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I commanded you: and lo, I am with you always, even unto the *end of the world*. Hebrews 009:026 επει εδει αυτον πολλακις παθειν απο καταβολης *κοσμου* νυν δε απαξ επι *συντελεια των αιωνων* (sunteleia ton aionwn (plural)) εις αθετησιν αμαρτιας δια της θυσιας αυτου πεφανερωται else must he often have suffered since the foundation of the *world*: but now once at the *end of the ages* hath he been manifested to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself. Download the free program Manuscript4u to check for yourself all the occurences of aionios in the Greek New Testament and in the Septuagint. sourceforge.net/projects/manuscript4u/files/?source=navbar

the one question is have ALWAYS pondered on this specific subject is this : Why are so many believers and followers of christ so concerned with a place they truly do not think they are going? secondly if they truly believe in christ does it matter if they believe in HELL and eternal torture? I cant find anywhere in the bible where it states he who believes not in hell witb go there.... it does however say ... he who believes on me Jesus shall be saved. THE END

You are absolutely right. He does not want most people to find Him in this age, or eon. But at the end of the eons, He shall be all in all. Avail yourselves to qualified teachers, who struggle with the Word, so that other might grasp it more easily. --MZ

Noone will be lost, not even satan

When terrorists of Islam commits a heinous act, people act like they’re the most barbaric people in the world, even though those individuals were acting based on their personal convictions because of what the Quran teaches. But when someone has a problem with a loving, compassionate, empathetic God tormenting a person forever, those same people who called the terrorists evil, starts to justify the greater act of pain and suffering. The terrorist acts only lasts for a moment, but the acts that we associate with God will allegedly be forever. That thought bothers me as well. I’m not professing any truth, I’m just saying that doesn’t seem loving and just to me. If you search your hearts honestly, you’ll see what I’m saying.

Right on Martin... in my small community of believers I dare not breathe the revelation shared with me while deep in study with the Spirit and the Word. It should be rejoiced throughout the body of Christ, that what He did was so amazing and does extend to all of the human race as Paul declares in Romans 5. But as you say the indoctrinated church dwells in the misery and eclaims the limited atonement of Christ through His blood, His sacrifice is minimized and they are comfortable in that position. To those who will reply. Don't give me verse, I probably know them better than you.

Notice he didn't come to the conclusion from prayer and reading God's Word, but from his own feelings. Not at all a subjective approach...

Just Imagine God getting His Way 🎉

If you were stuck alone on an island with your HOLY BIBLE and none of those fancy translations (which I refer to as per-versions) I wonder if you would come to the conclusion that the Word IS IS IS just what it says it is???

It's funny that every person with a certain belief says every other person with a different belief is crazy, and part of a cult.

When you play with words, you get many different interpritations... the pharisees studied this way, and they missed the manifestation of Gods words standing in front of them... the spirit does not disagree with itself...but peoples minds do... peace.

Thank you! The song is "December" by Collective Soul. --MZ

JohnLilleyTV nailed this on his channel with this vid "Hell Is Mistranslation" Yes, burning in hell is devil ascribing his attitudes and wishes to God.

Doctrinal beliefs of eternal torment and universal reconciliation are both false and have no solid basis with the Biblical scriptures. "The soul that sinneth shall die".

Amen brother!

2 Tim 4:3 Preach the word; be prepared in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, and encourage with every form of patient instruction. 3 For the time will come when men will not tolerate sound doctrine, but with itching ears they will gather around themselves teachers to suit their own desires. 4So they will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.…

Clearly, you have no idea. Why must Christians always point out that He is Jealous or Angry. At times, yes, He is. But so many point them out as if they are as eternal as His Holy and Loving nature, they aren't. They are very temporary moods. Lastly, Jesus did not die to save us from the wrath of God. He died to save us from Death. But if you actually KNEW the Gospel, the real one, you'd know that.

Got my thumbs up.:)

Wouldn't Satan want us to believe there is no eternal torment so that we keep on sinning?

He doesn't believe in eternal punishment! Hell is more real than this life we live in now.

There are many many scripture that says ALL FLESH WILL receive from God the gift of eternal life. Only a few below I have a LOT MORE #1 John 17 ) 1These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee: 2As thou hast given him power over ALL FLESH, that he should give (ETERNAL LIFE) to as many as thou hast given him. 3And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. 4I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do. 5And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was. 12While I was with them in the world, I kept them in your name: those that you gave me I have kept, and (NONE) of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.( My comment all flesh has to take in animals) #2 18Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. 19For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous. 20Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound: 21That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord. #3 What is he saving them from?1 Timothy chap 4 v 9-11 For therefore we both labor and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of ALL men, specially of those that believe. # 4 ALL means ALL not part of LUKE C 3 V 6 And (ALL) flesh shall see the salvation of God Webster's Dictionary SALVATION= The act of saving; preservation or deliverance from destruction, danger, or great calamity. 2. (Theol.) The redemption of man from the bondage of sin and liability to eternal death, and the conferring on him of everlasting happiness. #5 Below shows the unbelieving going into the Kingdom of God right after the believers. . 31Whether of them twain did the will of his father? They say unto him, The first. Jesus saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That the publicans and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before you. 32For John came unto you in the way of righteousness, and ye believed him not: but the publicans and the harlots believed him: and ye, when ye had seen it, repented not afterward, that ye might believe him. #6 1 John 2 2And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. (PROPITIATION) means The act of appeasing the wrath and conciliating the favor of an offended person; the act of making propitious. PROPITIOUS means The act of appeasing the wrath and conciliating the favor of an offended person; #7 Now how could he be talking about ALL flesh in the NEW WORLD and HEAVENS will come worship before him in Isaiah 66 below? As it says in 1st Cor 15/ 50Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God;) So it has to be saying ALL flesh that ever lived on the old world will come worship before him in the NEW WORLD. The BIBLE says we will be giving a spiritual body. 44It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. #8 Isaiah 66 22For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain. 23And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall (ALL FLESH) come to worship before me, saith the LORD. #9 1st cor 15 50Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. 51Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not ALL sleep, but we shall ALL be changed, 52In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. 55O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? 56The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law. 57But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

tentmaker org :P Covers pretty much the whole Bible.

Jesus was both man and God at the same time

please don't quote verses so wildly out of context. You have to remember Jesus came to save from 3 things - 1. to save the lost sheep of Israel - before the worldly judgement; 2. to save people from the unloving brokenness of sin; and 3. to save people from eternal physical death. But you're absolutely right - NOTHING is saved except by Christ. No one can save themselves - people are spiritually dead before Christ gives them faith. The dead know not anything and CANNOT choose to be saved!

Rev 22:11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still, Behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life.

Revelation 14:11 Revelation 20:14&15 says different.

Not so sure I agree on this one . First off all there is plenty of solid scripture supporting eternal fire damnation such as Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life >>>>thats just 1 . Seems to me that satan would rather you preach no hell in order to let your guard down . You cant sit there and use Gods awesome love as an example of why hell does not exist and your second death theory is weak up against the rest. Even jesus said >>>Better to cut off your own hand or pluck out your eye if it causes you to sin . Thats a warning of severe consequences of sin

There is destruction of souls and they are no more period.

universal reconciliation is totally biblical

Wow, it's obvious this guy doesn't actually read the Bible.

argumentum ad hominem, is an attempt to negate the truth of a claim by pointing out a negative characteristic or belief of the person supporting it. en.wikipedia org/wiki/Ad_hominem

@transquesta It has to look like we've a choice, but the truth is God IS in charge. He creates opposition to his will to make himself known. Some people seemingly "choose" not to believe in the real God (or in any god), but the truth is God hasn't granted them belief; he's hidden his true self from them in order to reveal himself later, locked them in stubbornness in order to show them mercy. (See "Free Will and the 'Oh Well' Creed" on MZ's website; he explains it well.)

Good word. I believe God is wise and All things are in the process to completionThe masterbuilders blueprint has no flaws.

Don't forget this paradox Martin. The false prophet must come first otherwise there is no glory when the truth comes. The paradox is, even the false prophet has his own glory. Light has no glory unless it's dark. The lie glorifies the truth....

@Efesios6141 What is your point? The proper translation of "forever and ever" is "for the eons of the eons," and death is to be abolished (1 Corinthians 15:26).

1 Timothy 4:10 (and for this we labor and strive), that we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, and especially of those who believe. Isaiah 45:23 By myself I have sworn, my mouth has uttered in all integrity a word that will not be revoked: Before me every knee will bow; by me every tongue will swear.

It seems eternal torment os fading fast but I am hearing more christians saying that once we go to hell we are not tormented but become unhuman. Basically a 10 tb harddrive wiped

@MyDickiebird - They are not ALL divided on key issues. There are some denominations that hold varying views on some doctrines (underwater baptism, sprinking, etc). But there is a large group of denominations that hold strictly to specific Christ centred views (His literal existence, crucifixion, resurrection, etc.)

“If anyone worships the beast and his image and receives his mark on the forehead or on the hand, he, too, will drink of the wine of God’s fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. He will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment rises for ever and ever. There is no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and his image, or for anyone who receives the mark of his name.” (Rev 14:9-11)

@Chonn23 Over 40 thousand denominations in churchworld,All divided on key issues like-Is salvation for everyone?,can Gods grace be resisted?,once saved always saved?e.t.c-seems pretty unclear to me

Correct.. People believe in eternal conscious torment because they misunderstand the scripture. Now dear brethren, the devil isn't an eternal fallen Angel, for those who believe that angels can sin, and actually rebel against God are to be compared to eternal torment believers. Understand this, that sin is in the flesh, human nature, and is rewarded with death. For the lust of the flesh, that we inherit from Adam, and what Jesus defeated, is the devil.