Eternal, Conscious Torment, In Hell? Really? 

Thanks, Gary. Hopefully more and more people will see the truth and be freed from the lies.

You're welcome, and I hope you check out some of my other videos!

@@TheBibleSays I have been. Watched about 7 today!

Thank you 👍

Working on it!

People imagine things according to what they've been told, and according to illustrations etc they've seen. And there's possibly some demonic influence at work, too. Here's one way we can know these testimonials are fake. Jesus said there must be a resurrection and judgment before anyone goes to eternal life or to damnation: ■ "Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation." (John 5:28,29) Has that resurrection occured? No. Therefore all the "testimonials" of people in torment in hell are bogus.

Lies

Hi, this is George. You can find more of my videos on my RU-vid channel. Clicking the circle with the "T" should take you there.

@@TheBibleSays okay well now I know that your first name is George. 😊 So you don't have any other channel or any other social accounts anywhere? I am very grateful for what you have provided in this video and a few others. But they are not even in the category on this channel of being your videos it looks like they are just uploaded videos so it's a little confusing

Lazarus and the rich man is a parable, not a story: ■ But without a parable spake he not unto them: and when they were alone, he expounded all things to his disciples (Mark 4:34) ■ All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them (Matthew 13:34) Parables are situations (not literal) used to make or illustrate a point. What's the parable of Lazarus and the rich man really about? Jesus gave a hint when He said the rich man had five brothers. The "rich man" symbolized the Jews: their ancestral father (Judah) had five brothers (all six were sons of Jacob and Leah, Luke 16:28; Deut 35:23). The Jews were "rich" because they had a covenant with God, promising them blessings and the Kingdom of God if they obeyed. Lazarus was the Gentiles, "outside the rich man's gate" -the promised blessings were not available to them. The parable reveals that Gentiles -anyone who obeyed (just as Abraham obeyed, therefore Lazarus was pictured in Abraham's bosom)- would receive God's mercy and blessings and the Kingdom, and that the old covenant with the Jews (and the other tribes of Israel) would be superceded. Jesus gave a similar parable in Matthew 21:33-43. Jesus concludes in verse 43: ■ "Therefore I say unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof." Paul made comments on this in Romans 10 and 11. For example: ■ "Thou wilt say then, The branches [Jews, Israel] were broken off, that I [any believer, eg., Gentile] might be graffed in. Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again. (Romans 11:19-23) About 332 BC the Greek general Alexander the Great conquered the Jews - and most of the rest of the known world. He and his successors pushed their Greek culture -and pagan doctrines- on those they conquered. Jesus staged the parable of Lazarus and the rich man in the Greek mythology of that time, knowing His listeners would recognize the "torment in flames" doctrine as Greek and would look for the real meaning of the parable. The Jews knew their geneology well; the "five brothers" was Jesus' hint to the Jews that He was talking about them . . . and their unbelief. Question: if I told you a parable with elves, unicorns and talking dragons as characters, would you take the parable as confirmation that such characters are real? Remarkably, the pagan "torment in hell" doctrine is now so embedded in mainstream "Christianity" as we know it today that people now mistake the parable as confirmation of conciousness in an eternal fiery hell! More about that in a minute. People also mistake the parable as confirmation that we have an immortal, conscious soul after the death of the body. They take the parable literally and then say "Hey, the rich man and Lazarus were still alive after they died!" The idea that the rich man and Lazarus were real and conscious and talking after they had died is much like what the pagan Greek philosopher Plato taught: that we have an immortal soul that's alive after we die. Here's Plato: _"Do we believe that there is such a thing as death? And is this anything but the separation of soul and body? And being dead is the attainment of this separation; when the soul exists in herself, and is parted from the body and the body is parted from the soul . . . beyond question the soul is immortal and imperishable, and our souls will truly exist in another world!"_ (Plato, in _Phaedo,_ about 360 BC) That's not what the Bible teaches. At death, our "thoughts perish" -we are no longer conscious. We go to the grave, the "earth." We "know nothing" while in the grave. And we remain in the grave, "asleep" in death, until we are resurrected: ■ "His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish." (Psalm 146:4) ■ "For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten." (Ecclesiastes 9:5) ■ "And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt." (Daniel 12:2) ■ "Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation." (John 5:28,29) So, what really happens to the unsaved after their resurrection and judgment? They *_perish_* because they did not receive the gift of eternal life: ■ "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16) And how do they perish? They die again, a second time. It's called "the second death" in Revelation 2:11, 20:6, 20:14 and 21:8. Upon that second death they return to unconciousness and there is no further hope of life or resurrection. It's the end of them. That's what it means to perish. So, what about all the verses about hell? Hell was injected into the Bible by hell-believing translators. How did they do that? By taking three different Greek words (which have nothing to do with a place of eternal, conscious torment) and translating them "hell." I'll give you an example: ■ "And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:" (Mark 9:47) "Hell" in that verse is from that Greek word γεέννῃ or "gehenna." Gehenna was the dump outside Jerusalem. The trash and garbage thrown there was sure to be destroyed by the constant fire - "hell fire"- and worms (maggots) in the dump. *Jesus likened the fate of the wicked to the destruction of refuse thrown into the dump: they would face certain, final and irrevocable destruction.* They would *_perish._* So, what does the Old Testament say about the unsaved? They'll be destroyed, they'll perish and "shall not be": ■"When the wicked spring as the grass, and when all the workers of iniquity do flourish; it is that they shall be destroyed for ever" (Psalms 92:7). ■"The way of the LORD is strength to the upright: but destruction shall be to the workers of iniquity" (Proverbs 10:29). ■"As the whirlwind passeth, so is the wicked no more: but the righteous is an everlasting foundation" (Proverbs 10:25). ■"Knowest thou not this of old, since man was placed upon earth, That the triumphing of the wicked is short, and the joy of the hypocrite but for a moment? Though his excellency mount up to the heavens, and his head reach unto the clouds; Yet he shall perish for ever like his own dung: they which have seen him shall say, Where is he?" (Job 20:4-7). ■"For yet a little while, and the wicked shall not be: yea, thou shalt diligently consider his place, and it shall not be" (Psalms 37:10). Here's the apostle Paul in the New Testament: ■ "For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord" (Romans 6:23) Nothing there about eternal life in torment in some sort of hell. The unsaved perish in death, specifically that "second death" -after resurrection and judgment. In Matthew 25:46 Jesus describes the fate of the unsaved: ■"And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal." When a criminal is executed, the punishment is not "everlasting" in the sense of being ongoing, perpetual punishing. No, the punishment is "everlasting" in the sense that it is permanent, complete and final and irrevocable. It will be the same for the unsaved; they will destroyed and that will be the end of them. Their punishment is "everlasting" in the sense that it stands forever: it is finished and irrevocable. It's that "second death." It is not "everlasting punishment" in the sense that it is perpetual, ongoing, active punishing. The words "permanent" and "final" never appear in the KJV; "everlasting" is often used instead. It's a mistake to assume "everlasting" always means an ongoing, perpetual process. It can refer to a permanent, finished and irreversible condition. The "lake of fire" in Revelation is like the gehenna dump fire. It pictures final, irrevocable destruction. Even death and the grave (hades) will be destroyed -never to be or happen again- by being figuratively "cast in the lake of fire": ■ "And death and hell [Greek _hades_ -the grave] were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire." (Revelation 20:14,15) After the final judgment and destruction of the wicked, death is effectively destroyed -because everyone left will have received eternal life. And the grave is destroyed: no one who received eternal life will die, and no one will be left in the grave awaiting resurrection for judgment. Paul wrote: ■ "The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death." (1 Corinthians 15:26) Death and the grave will be destroyed -after the wicked have been destroyed through death and the rest have received eternal life.

Lazarus and the rich man is a parable, not a story: ■ But without a parable spake he not unto them: and when they were alone, he expounded all things to his disciples (Mark 4:34) ■ All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them (Matthew 13:34) Parables are situations (not literal) used to make or illustrate a point. What's the parable of Lazarus and the rich man really about? Jesus gave a hint when He said the rich man had five brothers. The "rich man" symbolized the Jews: their ancestral father (Judah) had five brothers (all six were sons of Jacob and Leah, Luke 16:28; Deut 35:23). The Jews were "rich" because they had a covenant with God, promising them blessings and the Kingdom of God if they obeyed. Lazarus was the Gentiles, "outside the rich man's gate" -the promised blessings were not available to them. The parable reveals that Gentiles -anyone who obeyed (just as Abraham obeyed, therefore Lazarus was pictured in Abraham's bosom)- would receive God's mercy and blessings and the Kingdom, and that the old covenant with the Jews (and the other tribes of Israel) would be superceded. Jesus gave a similar parable in Matthew 21:33-43. Jesus concludes in verse 43: ■ "Therefore I say unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof." Paul made comments on this in Romans 10 and 11. For example: ■ "Thou wilt say then, The branches [Jews, Israel] were broken off, that I [any believer, eg., Gentile] might be graffed in. Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again. (Romans 11:19-23) About 332 BC the Greek general Alexander the Great conquered the Jews - and most of the rest of the known world. He and his successors pushed their Greek culture -and pagan doctrines- on those they conquered. Jesus staged the parable of Lazarus and the rich man in the Greek mythology of that time, knowing His listeners would recognize the "torment in flames" doctrine as Greek and would look for the real meaning of the parable. The Jews knew their geneology well; the "five brothers" was Jesus' hint to the Jews that He was talking about them . . . and their unbelief. Question: if I told you a parable with elves, unicorns and talking dragons as characters, would you take the parable as confirmation that such characters are real? Remarkably, the pagan "torment in hell" doctrine is now so embedded in mainstream "Christianity" as we know it today that people now mistake the parable as confirmation of conciousness in an eternal fiery hell! More about that in a minute. People also mistake the parable as confirmation that we have an immortal, conscious soul after the death of the body. They take the parable literally and then say "Hey, the rich man and Lazarus were still alive after they died!" The idea that the rich man and Lazarus were real and conscious and talking after they had died is much like what the pagan Greek philosopher Plato taught: that we have an immortal soul that's alive after we die. Here's Plato: _"Do we believe that there is such a thing as death? And is this anything but the separation of soul and body? And being dead is the attainment of this separation; when the soul exists in herself, and is parted from the body and the body is parted from the soul . . . beyond question the soul is immortal and imperishable, and our souls will truly exist in another world!"_ (Plato, in _Phaedo,_ about 360 BC) That's not what the Bible teaches. At death, our "thoughts perish" -we are no longer conscious. We go to the grave, the "earth." We "know nothing" while in the grave. And we remain in the grave, "asleep" in death, until we are resurrected: ■ "His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish." (Psalm 146:4) ■ "For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten." (Ecclesiastes 9:5) ■ "And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt." (Daniel 12:2) ■ "Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation." (John 5:28,29) So, what really happens to the unsaved after their resurrection and judgment? They *_perish_* because they did not receive the gift of eternal life: ■ "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16) And how do they perish? They die again, a second time. It's called "the second death" in Revelation 2:11, 20:6, 20:14 and 21:8. Upon that second death they return to unconciousness and there is no further hope of life or resurrection. It's the end of them. That's what it means to perish. So, what about all the verses about hell? Hell was injected into the Bible by hell-believing translators. How did they do that? By taking three different Greek words (which have nothing to do with a place of eternal, conscious torment) and translating them "hell." I'll give you an example: ■ "And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:" (Mark 9:47) "Hell" in that verse is from that Greek word γεέννῃ or "gehenna." Gehenna was the dump outside Jerusalem. The trash and garbage thrown there was sure to be destroyed by the constant fire - "hell fire"- and worms (maggots) in the dump. *Jesus likened the fate of the wicked to the destruction of refuse thrown into the dump: they would face certain, final and irrevocable destruction.* They would *_perish._* So, what does the Old Testament say about the unsaved? They'll be destroyed, they'll perish and "shall not be": ■"When the wicked spring as the grass, and when all the workers of iniquity do flourish; it is that they shall be destroyed for ever" (Psalms 92:7). ■"The way of the LORD is strength to the upright: but destruction shall be to the workers of iniquity" (Proverbs 10:29). ■"As the whirlwind passeth, so is the wicked no more: but the righteous is an everlasting foundation" (Proverbs 10:25). ■"Knowest thou not this of old, since man was placed upon earth, That the triumphing of the wicked is short, and the joy of the hypocrite but for a moment? Though his excellency mount up to the heavens, and his head reach unto the clouds; Yet he shall perish for ever like his own dung: they which have seen him shall say, Where is he?" (Job 20:4-7). ■"For yet a little while, and the wicked shall not be: yea, thou shalt diligently consider his place, and it shall not be" (Psalms 37:10). Here's the apostle Paul in the New Testament: ■ "For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord" (Romans 6:23) Nothing there about eternal life in torment in some sort of hell. The unsaved perish in death, specifically that "second death" -after resurrection and judgment. In Matthew 25:46 Jesus describes the fate of the unsaved: ■"And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal." When a criminal is executed, the punishment is not "everlasting" in the sense of being ongoing, perpetual punishing. No, the punishment is "everlasting" in the sense that it is permanent, complete and final and irrevocable. It will be the same for the unsaved; they will destroyed and that will be the end of them. Their punishment is "everlasting" in the sense that it stands forever: it is finished and irrevocable. It's that "second death." It is not "everlasting punishment" in the sense that it is perpetual, ongoing, active punishing. The words "permanent" and "final" never appear in the KJV; "everlasting" is often used instead. It's a mistake to assume "everlasting" always means an ongoing, perpetual process. It can refer to a permanent, finished and irreversible condition. The "lake of fire" in Revelation is like the gehenna dump fire. It pictures final, irrevocable destruction. Even death and the grave (hades) will be destroyed -never to be or happen again- by being figuratively "cast in the lake of fire": ■ "And death and hell [Greek _hades_ -the grave] were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire." (Revelation 20:14,15) After the final judgment and destruction of the wicked, death is effectively destroyed -because everyone left will have received eternal life. And the grave is destroyed: no one who received eternal life will die, and no one will be left in the grave awaiting resurrection for judgment. Paul wrote: ■ "The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death." (1 Corinthians 15:26) Death and the grave will be destroyed -after the wicked have been destroyed through death and the rest have received eternal life.

Revelation 14:9-11: ▬ "And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand," The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:" And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name." (Revelation 14:9-11) Those who took the mark of the beast will have "no rest day or night." Why? Because they will "drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out . . . upon the men which had the mark of the beast." The pouring out of God's wrath on mortal men who worshipped the beast is described in Revelation 16; here are the first two verses: ▬ "And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth. And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image." (Revelation 16:1,2) Because of that "noisome and grievous sore" they'll have "no rest, day or night." Their final punishment (later) will be destruction (reduced to ashes) similar to the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah. The punishment of Sodom and Gomorrah was finished long ago. Destruction by fire in the future is described in Revelation 20:7-9. After the fire goes out, only ashes and smoke remain. The smoke does not disappear the moment the fire goes out: it continues to rise. Malachi describes this destruction by fire: ▬ "For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch . . ." ▬ "And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the LORD of hosts." (Malachi 4:1,3) That will be the end of them. Figuratively "cast into the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death" (Rev 21:8) they are destroyed. The "lake of fire" may also have literal meaning. When Jerusalem is surrounded by Gog and Magog what happens? ". . . And fire came down from god out of heaven, and devoured them" (Rev 20:9). I suppose it will literally look like a lake of fire has surrounded Jerusalem. The "lake of fire" ultimately pictures final destruction. Death and hell (the grave) will be cast into the lake of fire (Rev 20:14,15). After that point in time, death will no longer occur, and no one will go to or be left in the grave. All will have been resurrected for judgment and will have either received eternal life or will have been destroyed through the second death.

@@TheBibleSays thanks for clearing that up. God bless you

re: Rev 20:10 Satan is "cast into the lake of fire and brimstone." And what does that mean? It is *_defined_* as the "second death" -death after which there is no more hope of life or resurrection: it is the end of you: ⚫ "But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: *which is the second death."* (Revelation 21:8) Satan's destruction - by fire - is described in detail in Ezekiel 28:13-19. This is apparently the same event described in Rev 20:9,10. Here's an excerpt from Ezekiel: ⚫ ". . . and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee. All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and *never shalt thou be any more."* (Ezekiel 28:18,19) Hebrews 2:14 also indicates Satan's destruction, through death: ⚫ "Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he [Jesus] also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil" (Hebrews 2:14). ========================================== re: Rev 14:9-11 ⚫ "And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand," The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:" And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name." (Revelation 14:9-11) Those who accept "the mark of the beast" suffer God's wrath, described in Rev 16. For example: ⚫ "And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth. And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image." (Rev 16:1,2) Because of *_that_* - and the other portions of God's wrath - they "have no rest day nor night" (Rev 14:11). Ultimately they will be destroyed, reduced to ashes. My understanding is this will happen much later, when Satan leads all his followers in another rebellion and they are all destroyed by fire sent from God (Rev 20:7-10). After the fire goes out, only ashes remain. The destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah was similar. Sodom and Gomorrah are not still burning. But the smoke doesn't disappear the moment the fire goes out: the smoke still rises. The wicked will be reduced to ashes, and that will be the end of them: that will be their "second death": ⚫ "For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch . . . And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the LORD of hosts." (Malachi 4:1,3) Like Satan, they will be destroyed: "and never shalt thou be any more." ====================================== We either get the second death, and perish . . . or, we receive the gift of eternal life: ⚫ "For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord" (Romans 6:23). ⚫ "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16) ⚫ "The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance." (2 Peter 3:9) ======================================== The pagan "immortal soul" doctrine blocks many people from seeing/accepting the "second death" as the final and irrevocable end - the termination - of existence. The "immortal soul" doctrine has crept into traditional Christianity over the centuries, to the point where many professing Christians now believe what the pagan philosopher Plato taught: _"Do we believe that there is such a thing as death? And is this anything but the separation of soul and body? And being dead is the attainment of this separation; when the soul exists in herself, and is parted from the body and the body is parted from the soul . . . beyond question the soul is immortal and imperishable, and our souls will truly exist in another world!"_ (Plato, in _Phaedo,_ about 360 BC)

@@TheBibleSays ok, thanks alot for your input Sir!

@@johnblake5114 You're welcome!

Amen to that. "The wages of sin is death" (Romans 6:23), not eternal torment. Eternal torment paints God as a sadistic monster . . . another lie from Satan the devil. I'm sure many have dismissed Christianity as nonsense because of false doctrines like eternal torment in a fiery hell.

Hi, thanks for writing. I'm glad to hear the videos have been helpful. You asked in your comment on another video: "How do you contend with the Scripture that "...ALL Liars will have there part in hell..."?" Here's Revelation 21:8. Note that it does not say "hell" . . . it says "in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.": ■ "But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death." (Revelation 21:8) Why the emphasis on "all" liars? Because it will include the original liar: Satan. So, what happens to Satan? Satan will be destroyed, figuratively cast into the lake of fire (Rev 20:10) which is the second death (Rev 21:7). What literally happens to Satan? Ezekiel 28:13-19 gives the following description . . . "never shalt thou be any more": ■ "Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created. Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee. By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire. Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee. Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee. All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and *never shalt thou be any more."* (Ezekiel 28:13-19) The lake of fire, like the burning gehenna dump outside Jerusalem, indicates destruction of whatever is figuratively "thrown in." Note Rev 20:14,15. Here we see events/conditions such as death and the grave being destroyed. After the final judgment only those who received eternal life will remain . . . death and the grave won't happen anymore -they're destroyed, figuratively cast into the lake of fire.

re: Rev 20:10 Satan is "cast into the lake of fire and brimstone." And what does that mean? It is *_defined_* as the "second death" -death after which there is no more hope of life or resurrection: it is the end of you: ⚫ "But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: *which is the second death."* (Revelation 21:8) Satan's destruction - by fire - is described in detail in Ezekiel 28:13-19. This is apparently the same event described in Rev 20:9,10. Here's an excerpt from Ezekiel: ⚫ ". . . and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee. All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and *never shalt thou be any more."* (Ezekiel 28:18,19) Hebrews 2:14 also indicates Satan's destruction, through death: ⚫ "Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he [Jesus] also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil" (Hebrews 2:14). ========================================== re: Rev 14:9-11 ⚫ "And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand," The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:" And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name." (Revelation 14:9-11) Those who accept "the mark of the beast" suffer God's wrath, described in Rev 16. For example: ⚫ "And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth. And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image." (Rev 16:1,2) Because of *_that_* - and the other portions of God's wrath - they "have no rest day nor night" (Rev 14:11). Ultimately they will be destroyed, reduced to ashes. My understanding is this will happen much later, when Satan leads all his followers in another rebellion and they are all destroyed by fire sent from God (Rev 20:7-10). After the fire goes out, only ashes remain. The destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah was similar. Sodom and Gomorrah are not still burning. But the smoke doesn't disappear the moment the fire goes out: the smoke still rises. The wicked will be reduced to ashes, and that will be the end of them: that will be their "second death": ⚫ "For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch . . . And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the LORD of hosts." (Malachi 4:1,3) Like Satan, they will be destroyed: "and never shalt thou be any more." ====================================== We either get the second death, and perish . . . or, we receive the gift of eternal life: ⚫ "For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord" (Romans 6:23). ⚫ "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16) ⚫ "The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance." (2 Peter 3:9) ======================================== The pagan "immortal soul" doctrine blocks many people from seeing/accepting the "second death" as the final and irrevocable end - the termination - of existence. The "immortal soul" doctrine has crept into traditional Christianity over the centuries, to the point where many professing Christians now believe what the pagan philosopher Plato taught: _"Do we believe that there is such a thing as death? And is this anything but the separation of soul and body? And being dead is the attainment of this separation; when the soul exists in herself, and is parted from the body and the body is parted from the soul . . . beyond question the soul is immortal and imperishable, and our souls will truly exist in another world!"_ (Plato, in _Phaedo,_ about 360 BC)

@@TheBibleSays I get you are saying their end will be death. But the question I am asking has to do with how do you explain the “forever and ever” part in both of the verses I gave. It doesn’t help if you reply back saying they will die. That still doesn’t explain why these verses say they will be tormented forever and ever. Could you please explain this?

@@abideintheWord The "forever and ever" is similar to the "everlasting" punishment Jesus mentioned: ⚫ "And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal." (Matthew 25:46) When a criminal is executed, the punishment is not "everlasting" in the sense of being ongoing, perpetual punishing. No, the punishment is "everlasting" in the sense that it is permanent, complete and final and irrevocable. It will be the same for the unsaved; they will destroyed and that will be the end of them. Their punishment is "everlasting" in the sense that it stands forever: it is finished and irrevocable; it is not "everlasting" in the sense that it is perpetual, ongoing, active punishing. The words "permanent" and "final" never appear in the KJV; "everlasting" is often used instead. It's a mistake to assume "everlasting" always means an ongoing, perpetual process. It can refer to a permanent, finished and irreversible condition. "Tormented forever and ever" is punished, permanently.

@@TheBibleSays I’m sorry but I’m not seeing how “tormented forever and ever” is synonymous with killed once permanently. You are tying in Matthew 25:46, but that is not answering my question about how you explain the “tormented forever and ever” part. Tormented forever and ever is a very far cry from being destroyed once. Now if it said “dead forever and ever” I could see your argument and then your argument would make sense. But the thing that is hanging me up is the “tormented forever and ever” part. You are trying to say tormented is the same as being destroyed here when they are completely different words. So again, what I’m trying to get from you is how do you explain the being “tormented forever and ever” part with emphasis on the word tormented. If you are dead how can you continue to be tormented? You’re dead.

@@abideintheWord I understand where you're coming from. I'm looking at the other evidence of what happens to Satan as my justification for saying "tormented forever and ever" must mean punished, permanently: ▬ Satan is "cast into the lake of fire and brimstone" (Rev 20:10) which is defined as "the second death": ⚫ "But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death." (Revelation 21:8) ▬ In Ezekiel 28 Satan is reduced to ashes "and never shalt thou be any more": ⚫ "Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created. Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee. By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire. Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee. Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee. All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and *never shalt thou be any more."* (Ezekiel 28:13-19) "Never shalt thou be any more" tells me Satan is destroyed. Having been destroyed, Satan will not be actively "tormented forever and ever" -Satan would have to *_"be"_* forever and ever in order to be actively "tormented forever and ever." So I lean toward "tormented" meaning punished, by destruction . . . "forever and ever" meaning permanently and conclusively for all time . . . not actively and perpetually. This account of Satan being reduced to ashes ties in with Rev 20:9, where "fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them" . . . "them" being Satan and his followers. This would be the fulfillment of Malachi 4:1,3, where they are reduced to ashes. ▬ In Hebrews 2:14 we have another indication that Satan is destroyed through death: ⚫ "Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he [Jesus] also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil" (Hebrews 2:14).

Here's Matthew 18:9: ■ “And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire.” Like Mark 9:47, this is another example of the Greek word γέεννα or gehenna being translated as “hell.” γέεννα was the dump outside Jerusalem, where perpetual fire was sure to destroy whatever was thrown in. This was how Jesus illustrated the certain destruction of the unsaved.

@@TheBibleSays Amen. I believe the Rejection of Jesus Christ after Jesus was crucified and Atone for the sins of the world. Is Eturnal damnation. But some people think differently. They can believe the way they see it. You can't be someone else. Have a very blessed Day.

Those who worship the beast will have "no rest day or night" while the 7 bowls of God's wrath are being poured out. That "noisome and grievous sore" will rob them of any rest: ■ "And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth. And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image." (Rev 16:1,2) Regarding the lake of fire, we see it *_defined_* -twice- as "the second death," -not as eternal life in torment: ■ "And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire." (Revelation 20:14,15) ■ "But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death." (Revelation 21:8) The "torment" of the lake of fire may be an allusion to fate of those who follow Satan in rebellion after the thousand years: ■ "And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them." (Revelation 20:7-9) They are reduced to ashes, as described in Malachi 4:1,3. And that will be the end of them. Satan will be consumed by fire along with them, as described here in Ezekiel 28:17-19: ■ “Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee. Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee. All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and *never shalt thou be any more."* (Ezekiel 28:17-19) The "lake of fire" can be taken both literally and figuratively. Literally, it may look like a lake of fire has surrounded Jerusalem when God sends fire to devour the rebels surrounding Jerusalem. That consuming fire is like the "gehenna" dump fire that was outside Jerusalen in Jesus' time, devouring and destroying whatever was thrown into it. Figuratively, in a higher sense, to be thrown into the lake of fire means to be destroyed or ended. For example, we see both death and "hell" (the grave) being ended or destroyed . . . "cast in the lake of fire": ■ "And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. After the judgment no one will be left in the grave, and only those who received eternal life will remain. So the grave and death are both destroyed . . . figuratively "cast into the lake of fire," never to happen again.

Exactly . . . we wait in the grave for our resurrection.

John 3:16 . . . unless we receive the gift of eternal life, we will *_perish:_* ■ "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." So, how will the unsaved perish? ■ "For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord" (Romans 6:23) After resurrection and judgment, the unsaved will die a second time. It's called the "second death" in the Bible, in Revelation 2:11, 20:6, 20:14 and 21:8. After the second death there is no life and there is no hope of resurrection. It's the end of you. You'll never "be" again. That's what it means to "perish." And that's how God mercifully deals with those who reject Him. Here’s some examples of perishing from the Old Testament: ■ "For yet a little while, and the wicked shall not be: yea, thou shalt diligently consider his place, and it shall not be" (Psalms 37:10). ■ "As the whirlwind passeth, so is the wicked no more: but the righteous is an everlasting foundation" (Proverbs 10:25). ■ "The way of the LORD is strength to the upright: but destruction shall be to the workers of iniquity" (Proverbs 10:29). So, where did "hell" come from? The word “hell” appears in Bible *_translations_* because hell-believing *_translators_* put it there, paving over the meanings of three different original Greek words (New Testament). Those words have nothing to do with a place of eternal, fiery torment. Here’s an example: ■ “And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire” (Mark 9:47) The Greek word γέεννα (geena or gehenna in English) was translated "hell" in that verse. So, what was γέεννα, really? It was the valley (just outside Jerusalem) which was used as a dump in Jesus’ time. Constant fire and maggots there were sure to destroy whatever was thrown in. But translators said nothing about that dump. Instead, they translated γέεννα as “hell.” Using “hell” in that verse was grossly misleading. Jesus was not talking about eternal torment in some sort of fiery hell. Jesus was saying the unsaved would perish. They would surely be destroyed, just as trash thrown into that dump was sure to be destroyed. They would (figuratively) be thrown into the dump, and that would be the end of them. Translators (especially King James Version, 1611) made a real mess when they used the word “hell” in place of those three Greek words. They had inherited their hell concept, by tradition, through the Catholic church. By using “hell” they were twisting the meanings of the Greek words, making the Bible appear to support their doctrine of a place of perpetual, fiery torment. Some later translators have recognized this error. They've referenced the original Greek words in footnotes, or even used the original Greek words directly in the translated text . . . and not used “hell.” Young’s Literal Translation (YLT), for example, never uses “hell.” The damage caused by the translators continues to this day. Millions of reasonable people dismiss Christianity as nonsense when they are told the God of mercy will sadistically torment the unsaved forever and ever in some sort of fiery hell. People often struggle with the thought of perishing because they've been led to believe they have an immortal soul that leaves the body at death and lives - somewhere - forever. That's actually a pagan doctrine that has crept into institutional Christianity over the centuries. (It's a repackaged version of Satan's lie, "Ye shall not surely die" -Genesis 3:4.) Here's the pagan Greek philosopher Plato; see if this sounds like what most professing Christians have taught by their churches: _"Do we believe that there is such a thing as death? And is this anything but the separation of soul and body? And_ _being dead is the attainment of this separation; when the soul exists in herself, and is parted from the body and the_ _body is parted from the soul . . . beyond question the soul is immortal and imperishable, and our souls will truly_ _exist in another world!"_ (Plato, in _Phaedo,_ about 360 BC) The "soul" in the Bible is different: it only refers to your self, your person . . . not to some sort of immortal spirit component that floats out of your body when you die. Example: ■ "And we were in all in the ship two hundred threescore and sixteen souls." (Acts 27:37) The soul - the person - that chooses sin will die: ■ "The soul that sinneth, it shall die . . . " (Ezekiel 18:20) ➔ Salvation is not about "where you'll spend eternity." Wrong paradigm! *You won't even **_have_** an eternity unless* *you receive from God the gift of eternal life!* Otherwise, you'll perish in that "second death." There will be "weeping" and "gnashing of teeth" when the unsaved see others receiving the gift of eternal life and realize they, too, could have received eternal life. In Matthew 25:46 Jesus describes the fate of the unsaved: ■ "And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal." The punishment of the unsaved is "everlasting" in the sense that it is completed, final, permanent and irrevocable, like the execution of a criminal. The "everlasting punishment" is the second death, after which there is no life and no hope of resurrection. The punishment is not "everlasting" in the sense of being perpetual, conscious punishing.

There IS NO....eternal hell.

Eternal life is a gift of God to those who believe the gospel. "The wages of sin is death, but the GIFT of God is eternal life." Since the unsaved do not have eternal life, they cannot exist forever.