@@fredrickkenley674 Punching people in the face used to be societies way of fixing itself. Call it what you want but people weren't assholes when they got popped in the mouth
On IMDB, on the Trivia page for this movie, it says that this scene was almost word for word what Escalante really said to ETS. The real Jaime Escalante helped write the script.
+Explosion Pvp Yea I was sad to hear bout his death. My math teacher showed us a video bout him when I was in 6th grade and after seeing it I can see why so many students wanted to b in his class. The man was beyond a math legend
+Hamzah Elsulayman I read after the movie was released, enrollment jumped in his class. Sadly, however, there were a lot of failures. Maybe the kids thought the class was going to be easy?
Hamzah Elsulayman Oh, definitely not. He was the epitome of a teacher, someone who had passion not only for teaching but for making a difference in the lives of his or her students.
They were the ones accusing, they were the ones with the "burden of proof." You can't just go around asking people to prove YOU wrong, you have to prove YOUR accusation.
the "burden of proof" lies with the students. the STUDENTS make the claim that they can perform well on the test. these people suspect cheating, and there isnt any way to prove they arent cheating without a re-test in a controlled environment. it's essentially saying "_we do not accept_ your student's claim that they can perform well on this test (because the result was an anomaly and was taken in an uncontrolled environment)." this is in the same way as say, a psychic. "the burden of proof" is on the psychic, so they make a pencil fly through the air and bend a spoon with their mind. someone accuses them of "cheating", it isnt your job to prove they arent psychic, so to prove it they have to come do it in a controlled environment and suddenly their magic powers are gone.
@@AVERYhornyMrDinosaur thats two claims you are confounding. students claim is one, and accusations of cheating is another. the first is proven by the scores, and the second must be proven by the accusers. so no, that is an invalid argument.
@@26183 & @Ben Mercer my replies dont seem to stick when i send them, but no.. idk how you ding dongs dont understand how this works. the burden of proof doesnt just switch to the person who "calls bullshit" on someone. your allowed to say "nuh uh" and require more proof. otherwise EVERYTHING claimed is then already inherently proven, and the burden of proof goes right back to the skeptic and not the initial claim.
@@AVERYhornyMrDinosaur nah, you're wrong. Person A requests a demonstration of ability. Person B demonstrates an ability. Person A must now accept or provide an explanation of how such demonstration was flawed. Ets should have had to prove that the student's demonstration, i.e. the test, was invalid.
@MrDodger As shown in the film, ETS's excuse was "the unusual agreement of incorrect answers." Escalante responds that they are therefore accusing his students of not knowing how to cheat properly. His explanation is that they were all taught step by step the same way, which is a more plausible explanation for the matching wrong answers than whatever ETS is trying to claim as the reason. In any case, we'll never know because, as Escalante mentions -- loudly -- ETS refused to show him or anyone the evidence of cheating. We're supposed to trust their objectivity and judgement without questioning. I understand their reasons for taking that stance but expecting us to blindly accept it isn't reasonable.
Really? What are their reasons? What is "understandable" about it? There is a reason why the right to face your accusers is a part of our justice system. If they refuse to provide evidence, their claims have ZERO validity.
@@Skyblade12 I would think they could sue in response to the false allegations after they proved them wrong, and some top lawyers would love to take on the case.
@@Skyblade12 'fuck you, that's why' was their entire reasoning. School choice vouchers cannot come fast enough. Schools have been trash for generations now.
We watched this in Spanish class, and my teacher said he was saying "If I see you on the street I'll kick your ass" but now that I watch it in English I know what he actually said lol.
There is no better translation to be fair, here in my country we say "te saco la mierda" but that is a local expresión that is far rider than the english version " I'll kick the shit out of you"
Being hispanic 2 of my daughters were accused of cheating in their pre-calculus final exams. No questions, no trial, then they were forced to repeat the entire year. The white students that copied from my daughters were never questioned nor suspected. Yes, it still happens today.
What I found interesting was that, when I watched this movie in school, in California, I asked my teacher if he thought it was a racism issue, and he said he did not think it was racism. When I saw the same movie in Spanish class, in Mississippi (because I moved), I asked the same question to my teacher, and she thought it was racism.
Shit didn't seem racist to me. From Cali btw. An area or school that was on a regular basis doing very poorly academically this year turns out to score well above average? I mean it'd be stupid for them to assume that "hey they must have had a really good teacher all of a sudden that just broke this pattern". If they had not investigated it and let's say they were cheating and were found out tons of people would be on their backs for not investigating it int he 1st place when the irregularities popped up.
P1imp0logy101 That is racism when you accuse a GROUP of wrong doing. In the richer areas they would only accuse single kids even if they didnt have high scores and suddenly did they would not accuse the whole group of cheating, now go back and rethink racism THANK YOU!!
+SunsetSideVet accusing a group or suspecting a group for wrongdoing isn't racism. "Believing all members of a particular race posses characteristics or abilities specific to that race, especially so to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race" is. Statistically speaking their community had been known or seen to underperform on a regular basis. There's a saying that "numbers do not lie, people lie, politicians, and promises are lie, while numbers are the closest thing we have to the handwriting of God" (kudos to anyone who knows where that's from lol). If the numbers don't add up then they most definitely should have done an investigation. If a richer school with all while students had the same statistics (underperforming then suddenly doing good) then they should be investigated all the same. And please don't tell me about racism. I'm black, not only am I black but I'm African ( Nigerian) to be precise with an accent as thick as Kim Kardashians booty. I've heard all the racist insults, been discriminated upon, followed through stores, pulled over because I matched a "description", had jobs given to people less experienced and less qualified ( I'm a nurse by the way), and even discriminated from people who I would have thought to be accepting ( black people). I know full and well what racism, I may even know it better than you but I'm not going to speculate on your life experiences.
The problem with demanding a retest under a controlled environment is the environment is not “controlled”, especially I a situation where you have students who previously struggled with the subject , had little confidence in their ability, and their confidence now is very new and tenuous. Demanding a retest is going to sow confusion and effect the confidence of a test taker. Someone used to success will embrace the chance to reprove themselves, but someone for whom success is a new thing being told they have to try again is going to cause them to lose faith in themselves and/or the fairness by which they are being tested I have never even heard of this movie before and this is just the second you tube clip I have seen (the first is the negative 2 plus two scene) but I know enough about math, statistics and teaching remedial students that those two suits are confident that they will be able to manufacture lower scores on the second test using these tactics and by denying the psychological effect “prove” that the first test was under UN controlled conditions (cheating), while in fact it the second test that has already been manipulated. Further while there will be consequences to the teacher and students if the second test is lower , there will be zero consequences to them (the suits and whoever is motivating them) if the second test is consistent or even better than the first one. That’s why the teacher is right to refuse to allow the second test, it’s a unfair situation where he and his students can only lose or tie, while the other side can only tie or win
Great scene, movies today just make one bad, one good, that's it. It's clear each side is trying to do their job. He has a valid point about the two kinds of racism, while the teacher also has valid points, and it is scenes like this that are actually thought-provoking.
Something EVERYONE can remember: There are two kinds of racism: singling out a group because of their skin color and not singling out a group because of their skin color
"maybe not but I catch you on the street and I'll kick the shit outta you". That is how it's done What happened to men,what happened to having balls like this and actually standing up for what's right AND be able to back it with concrete facts
What I don't understand is why not, instead of forcing a test on these kids and questioning everything, simply interview them, put up a semi-hard problem and pretend like you're having a hard time figuring it out (some kids will see through the charade but some won't) and they'll solve it for you. They'll show that they know the math! Then based on that, recommend to your bosses that these kids know their material.
Anybody else remember the KFC commercial with this black dude in it, claiming to be Gus wheeler from Wisconsin and a franchise owner? The moment I saw him I knew he was in Stand and Deliver!
I've always thought there must be a deleted scene that took place after this where Garcia's character and Jaime come to some sort of understanding because at the end of the film, when Jaime is trying to get the principal to call again for the test results, he tells the principal to ask for Garcia's character, believing he will help them. Based on this scene, Garcia's character would not be likely to help someone to kick his ass and I doubt Jaime would expect him to.
...these days he would have been accused of being racist just for being alive while white. He should be thankful it took him doing his job to be accused of racism.
@@RantingRamsay the sad thing is, is that he even told the students he came from where they did too, so he should know what it feels like to be like them. Idk if he’s playing a white character or Mexican .
Es la verdad, that’s the truth bro. Por eso le piden el apollo a todos los demás en contra nosotros los Latinos. That’s why they ask help from everyone else against us Latinos.
ETS should have at least offered an incentive. Offered a 5K college scholarship to every kid that got comparable scores a second time. Even if they offered nothing, the students should have just retaken it after getting a promise from every major newspaper that they’d write a front page article about racism if they got comparable scores. Probably would have guaranteed them all admission, if not scholarships, to most colleges.
0:04 Either he was wrong, or he was lying. Once somebody calls the cops, they take you to jail, and you have to wait until evidence proves you didn't do it unless somebody bails you out.
What's funny is there was a school that went through this exact thing in real life but the twist was, they did cheat, all of them, with the teacher at the lead. They made an HBO movie about it called "Cheaters". They too tried to claim that the only reason they were being questioned was because they were from a poor neighborhood to get out of it.
So...the investigators are right though. Cause the students knew the material and passed the retake, but in the real story, students did admitted that a piece of paper was passed around with a flawed solution. So they did cheat. Even though they didn’t need to.
Actually, your post is not completely true. You are referring too nthe justification the proctors used to accuse the student investigation. Proctors knew the students passed around a piece of paper with 30 seconds or so left on the exam with a POSSIBLE solution. The student claimed they were worried about his/her response and wanted the other students to check their work AFTER the exam. That student in fact passed it a few seconds before the test was "over". Observers felt there hadn't been enough time for the other students to copy the response nor was that response repeated on the exams however, it became the basis for justifying the investigation when students scores were found to be higher than average.
