Absolutely. NACS is just a cosy Tesla led cartel. Silly apps and accounts with no proper competition. With CCS you get contactless payment, the default method for all small payments nowadays. No apps or accounts are required and anyone can set up as a charging provider. In the UK alone there are loads of providers and that will eventually lead tto price competition just like with petrol or diesel. NACS is an anachronistic dead end.
I think the idea of adapters being a major pain-in-the-ass is a bit overblown. I've had CCS and J1772 adapters for our Tesla for a few years now, and it's really no big deal. You plug in the adapter then plug into the car. Quite easy. As far as susceptibility to damage, I've dropped my adapters on hard concrete and they work just fine. In addition, I've never noticed a drop in charging speed while using an adapter.
It maybe fairly easy for me or you, but I can tell you it's not for my wife. She recently took a long out and back road trip in her Model Y where she had to charge once at a Supercharger. The only 2 backups were a couple of Chargepoints along the way. As the day approached, I thought, she needs to learn how to use the CCS to NACS adapter and get the Chargepoint app on her phone. I took her to a Chargepoint charger and had her do the whole process with the app and adapter. I can tell you that she struggled with it, even though she finally did it. The degree of difficulty for using a big adapter maybe only a 2 of 10 for you and me, but for my wife and some other women it's more like a 4. And that means in buying an EV, needing to use a big adapter every time you charge is a deal-killer for her. So no CCS ports for her.
I believe there's also a segment of EV users who charge 99% at home anyway. For them, the Teala supercharger network would be less of a factor in their purchasing decision
I have 2 CCS cars. We only fast charge 2-3 times per year. Having an adapter is no big deal. Even if I had a NACS port I would still have a CCS adapter as a back up plan.
I have a NACS port and I don't have a CCS adapter. There's basically zero point. The number of NACS chargers totally dwarfs the number of CCS chargers. I mainly use my car for road trips & probably supercharge ~40 times per year
I was surprised to research that there is no such thing as an adapter for the older and much less common Chademo standard. so if you buy one of the few remaining Japanese who still persevere with it like the Nissan Leaf, you can’t get an adapter.::
@@ouethojlkjn I think there IS. I have a set of connector charging tails that enable me to charge at a CHAdeMo charger with my Type 2/CCS car. I am not sure about it working in reverse but I would reckon there must be adaptors.
@@petesig93 Thanks for responding - I was all set to buy an older Nissan [chademo] in the UK assuming there were adapters but all the research I did said "not possible" and in the end I did not buy. I would be very interested to know if such a thing does indeed exist. But I could not uncover it. There are few Chademo adapters in the UK compared to the much more common CCS.
The charging standard argument is an American thing. Here in Europe vehicles are sold with Mennekes connector plus CCS, this goes for Teslas as well. (Nissan Leaf is still sold with ChaDeMo, but that is an exception to the rule).
I don’t disagree long term with the need for a single standard, but at the same time in the last 12 months I’ve solely charged my Q4 (CCS) at home in my garage. The one road trip I did, i just used our ICE car.
CCS is the common standard in Europe and the UK. The cable is a bit heavy and awkward, but no big deal. As long as adapters are available, I guess both types will hang around. I think is more important is the Tesla supercharger network which was around first and is everywhere you would like them to be is now open to non-teslas. It also lends credence to the assertion that Tesla is trying to electrify transport because if I were a competitor and in the lead I certainly wouldn’t be giving the competition the means to try and catch me up.!!
I believe that it won't affect those outside North America, those that charge at home 100% of the time, don't take long distance trips very often and plan to keep the car for over a decade.
Millions successfully travel to foreign lands to find differing wall outlets and socket styles. Very few panic and go back to the airport when they realise nothing fits. They just buy one of the many simple adapters designed to effectively remedy the convenience barrier, and resume their day. No different with EVs.
Agree, CCS2 does support high power AC charging up to as bout 20 KW (240V three phase at 30A). I have a friend who had this installed in his garage for about $2,000. I use a simple 240V 15A GPO which easily handles 3KW charging. Installation cost was $600. It has proved more to han adequate for our needs. The slimline CCS2 AC only connector is quite light, comparable to NACS It's only the DC component that adds weight due to the heavier conductors needed for up to 250KW vs those for 20KW.
I’m looking at getting my first EV (in the US) in the next few months. I’ve decided I’ll just lease a Tesla Model Y for the next three years, then consider what to buy. The reason is waiting for everyone else to start using NACS. Historically, I’ve bought new and kept cars for a LONG time - I’ve only owned two cars in the past 25 years. So committing to anything else right now feels foolish, but I don’t want Tesla to be my only choice. I test-drove an Ioniq 5 and was very impressed, and in three years I might be able to get a Rivian R2!
We have had a Tesla model Y for nearly 2 years in the UK and you won’t go wrong it’s a brilliant all-rounder. I have to say in my view, check out Tesla first, and if it really doesn’t work for you opt for something else. As a long-term proposition, I don’t see anything being better than Tesla.
@@dp1927 Yes, the Tesla lease is a bad deal. I think all leasing is a bad deal, considering my habit of buying cars new and keeping them for over a decade. But right now, Tesla is the only available car with NACS charging, which is clearly the Future. Non-NACS is a legacy system, and I don’t want to be tied to a system that may be hard to find and unreliable in ten years. Three years from now, most of the EVs on the market will have NACS charging, and there will be more affordable choices (“affordable” for me means under $60k). Early washouts and walking dead legacy vendors will be more obvious, too. Three years from now, I will have non-Tesla choices that I can feel confident are future-proofed. That’s worth putting up with a few years of a lousy lease deal.
@electricviking this is not at all relative for nz and Australia which use the cc2 standard and that won’t be changing any time soon as it is the main std that has been adopted and used by everyone including Tesla. Nacs will likely be a charger port upgrade for many evs in North America for those who don’t want to use an adaptor and heck even using an adaptor is no big deal at all.
This is EXACTLY why I just leased my 2023 Ionic 5 for just two years. The lease allowed me to get the $7500 discount. By limiting the length of the lease to two years I figured there would be enough battery changes that I'd want to take advantage of. The change to NACS, which happened a few months after I started my lease was just the icing on the cake. The only mistake I made was not selling my 2020 Leaf when I was offered $31,000 from the dealership I leased it from. I ended up selling it seven months later for $14,000. Oh well. I did get a much better deal on the Ionic by waiting those seven months so I suspect it's pretty much a wash. I'm certainly looking forward to what will come in June 2025!
Hyundai has had a massive spate of issues with the ICCU, causing a 5 amp draw on the starter (non traction) battery. ICCU units are backordered for months. These cars are becoming too computerized for my liking, I don't need all of these bells and whistles in a car. Just be reliable first and foremost.
@@silverdale3207 I had a three year lease and then bought it at the end of the lease. Owned it for about six months before I traded it in on the Ionic. Wish now I had sold it at the end of the lease!
17,000 miles with our 23 Bolt ev and no real problems - actually it's been superb. Chevrolet came through on all promises: they paid for our home charger and house rewiring, they have provided all the ev promised and so far service cost seems fine.
GM has announced they will stop production after Dec 20, 2023. So no more Bolts will be made, they were losing $2 k per Bolt made. Factory is being retooled for other EV models.
This did not happen and you know it did not happen. They paid to rewire your house eh? give me a break, you EV bots are everywhere. It is being rejected and this takeover will fail.
Again, Americans making statements about the world that's only applicable to the American market, while the American market becomes more protectionist and isolated. He is right about one thing, John's comment is ridiculous.
@@markthomas7279 as he said this only applies in the US, it does not appliy in EU for example. because in EU Tesla is using the CCS and by some miracle can still use all of the Tesla gadgets. So the way forward is that this only applies for US.
@@phillipbanes5484 except here it's specifically targeted at John because he's only talking about the short sighted American government funding bill which should not have implications for the rest of the world. Tesla is great but there are so many other EV brands that the parochial American exceptionalism does not even allow to exist.
I've got a 2023 Chevy Bolt EV and I just read that starting in February GM and Ford owners will have access to Tesla's entire Super Charger network in the USA. Apparently Tesla will start selling adapters to GM and Ford EV owners around that time. Gr8 vid as usual.🚗🇺🇸🔌⚡
Would it be surprising if many CCS models are still selling in the US in two years time. These companies tend to move at glacial speeds when making significant changes.
John's comments are on track for North America. My limited experience in NZ with public charging is that Charge net in Wanganui and Palmerston North, had 50kw chargers with two connectors: one CCS2 and one with Chademo. The owner of the Tesla model Y , who wished to charge at the same time as we were charging our MG4, had to wait a few minutes for us to put in 20 minutes charge before he could connect, as both chargers were in use or the Chademo plugs were not suitable. It seems for practical purposes, NZ and Australia should consider the NACS connector as a global standard. We should make the changes now to be ready for the needs of our grandchildren.
I agree. At the moment, in North America, Tesla is head and shoulders above the competition. They already have the NACS chargers, and years of experience making EVs. I have a Bolt and a Tesla. GM's 7-8 years of experience with EVs is not in evidence in my 2023 Bolt. Perhaps some manufacturers have great offerings, but they rely on dealers who are at best surly about EVs, have the wrong charger, and have sketchy experience with batteries. Look at the apparently great Hyundais with stories of CDN $50k+ replacement fees after minimal damage. The price is likely wrong, but also the news about these replacement fees seems to stem from dealer inexperience with batteries or unwillingness to understand batteries.
@@alexj-787 The difference is that most of the world uses 240 volts, 3 phase AC. The US and Canada are using 120 volt, 2 phase AC. I'm not an electrical engineer, but apparently that's why the number of pins necessary for AC charging is different
This guy makes so much sense. The tech in Tesla vehicles are so much better engineered proven iterated on. Better charging network better software availability in the future even if you don't get it initially. Long pack life's due to battery management far developed beyond competitors. Other cars will not be supported by bankrupt OEMs. Lighter, faster, safer and better software experience.
Actually not. Outside the US we have a wide choice of EVs many of which are superior tto Tesla's offerings. Here in the UK the Tesla charging network is most certainly not the best.
I am buying a CCS Bolt tomorrow because it only has 14000 miles, a brand new battery, and cost $12000 after a $4000 rebate. It's almost a new car for that price! A used Tesla cost way more and will be out of warranty. I'll use the adapter for that deal. My other car is a LEAF with CHADEMO.
Our family have operated both a TM3 and BYD Atto3 for well over a year. They are in many respects very similar: 150KW power, 60KWHr batteries, 400-450km range, 5 seats, CCS2 charging etc. Both are generally speaking very practical vehicles and inservice have been very reliable and dirt cheap to operate. The differences are: TM3 has much better acceleration and handling and faster fast charging rate. However, the Atto has much better ride, a much better range of accessories, much better ergonomics (particularly as set up for right hand drive), much better access (much easier to get in and out), more cabin space, better screen and software and in my view better fit and finish. To boot the Atto is $15,000 less costly. You buy what you need but to my mind the choice is fairly clear.
We have a M3 and test drove the Atto 3. The minuses for us were that the Atto3 didn’t offer one pedal driving and the fixed front head rests were extremely uncomfortable. I haven’t heard any reviewers mention this latter point strangely.
@@robsengahay5614 Not uncomfortable in our Atto 3. Not perfect, but nothing we would complain about. Whilst one pedal driving would be a good option if BYD could add it via software and have a slider control for driver preference, it's not for everyone, but an option would be nice.
@@robsengahay5614I normally drive the Atto using adaptive cruise so it is no pedal driving. As for seating, it is strange. I find the Atto seating very good
Let’s not forget 85-90% of EV charging will still be done at home where if you currently have a CCS connection you will be fine. I wouldn’t loose sleep over this change to NACS if you currently have a CCS EV.
I was charging my '23 Kia EV6 Wind and a new tesla owner Mod 3 told me all the gripes he had, bad fit of panels/glass near window pillars, range. The only positive thing was he says was the $189/mo lease price. Told him checkout my new EV6 Wind RWD, looks and rides almost like a Model S and 320 to 365 miles of range, the GT gets about 285 mi range but is FAST and looks awful sharp, in and out.
I have a 2022 ioniq 5 which I bought 18 months ago. The only thing I do not like about the EV experience is the CCS plug and cable. Too heavy and hard to plug in. I am so happy the NACS will be the standard. I am confident Hyundai or someone else will have a dongle available sometime in 2025. It will be much easier to plug the dongle into my CCS port and then plug the lighter NACS cable into the dongle.
The headache of fast charging a vehicle in the US with non-Tesla charger are ridiculous. I travel up and down I-95 and much fewer CCS chargers and often times broken or reduced charging or lines due to few chargers.
I own both Tesla and Fisker, Fisker is my preferred ride right now, and I have much better handling, driving, and attention to detail interior and exterior. Mu h better and Fun to drive. It charges %20 to %80 in about 25-30 min. And Fisker's car insurance costs less than Tesla. With Jonas logic Apple is using Usb-c plug for charging right now that means Samsung is better than Apple. 😂
As you noted there will be an adapter and the other automakers will have to adjust/modify their software - as long as the software is good, no problem. I don't see this as a big deal. My smaller and Much Less Expensive GM Bolt will work fine as it does now and it actually has buttons to control a lot of the driver functions rather than having to interface with a giant iPad-like screen while you're driving (STupid in my opinion). I think the main allure for a Tesla is that massive tire wasting acceleration, whereas my Bolt zips around just fine. It is Far from perfect (it is a Chevy) but to base your purchase decision just because of a certain plug (which you don't need at home - you adapter just STAYS in the car) seems rather short sighted. Musk is a good sales/hype person, but it's the head start and enthusiasm of his engineering teams that have made Tesla the dominant player. If you're planning on buying a BEV I would consider my needs, wants and likes for everyday use rather than that plug.
Good post. We own both a Tesla Model Y and a Chevy Bolt. In many ways, the Bolt is the better car. It is the one that we drive the most for around town driving. The Tesla is much, much faster but that is the only area in which it is unquestionably better even though it cost more than twice as much.
I never understood why the bolt was never imported into the UK because I thought it would have sold like hotcakes. Instead I opted for a model three standard range, but have not regretted it. The screen takes about two seconds to get used to. You also have voice commands for everything, so you don’t need to be hunting for a button. But if the bolt had been in the UK for an attractive price, I certainly would’ve got one.
Lease a Polestar or EV of choice that offers the lease option! In 24 - 36 months I'll turn it in for the next iteration which will have better range and faster NACS charging. I won't have to worry about depreciation or obsolescence, and my monthly payment is significantly cheaper than buying. Because EVs are advancing in leaps and bounds on an almost per-fiscal-quarter basis, to me leasing made more sense.
Yes, a lease payment is less than buy-in (assuming a purchase plan less than 7 years, and Tesla offers up to 8 OAC). However, on a lease you get no equity into th vehicle, so that locks you into leasing or buying another vehicle much sooner than most people otherwise would have done. It's like getting a loan with 100% financing or interest and no principle payment. Non-teslas will offer you a "discount" to buy the previously leased EV, but realistically anyone should be able to get that price for the used EV. Given that an average investment of money would get you 6%, which is around the level of price inflation some years, it's a huge net loss. Any car lease is basically burning money unless it provides you tax refund incentives or business expense write-offs. Even then, more efficient expenses (ones that actually hep make you money) could be used instead, so it's not the best alternative. I would need some beneficial connection with the car manufacturer or an edge in how the vehicle improves y imgehomake such a sacrifice. If you lot for such a thing in n EV, there's nobody better than Tesla, so that's another argument why losing still makes no sense.
As far as the US is concerned…yep. CCS was a total pain in the ass…I preferred to burn gas rather than try to plug in my CCS PHEV. Now we are on NACS and it just works flawlessly. Once Hyundai/Kia switch to NACS, it’s game on though. They have great EVs.
No, sorry, I must dispute. Using an adapter shouldn't be a big deal for most people. If most of your charging is done at home, it's not relevant there. So, it's only needed when you're charging on a trip far enough away from home, out of town, and there are a lot of people who don't really do that too often. They'll be fine. But what about. . . Depreciation? Will it charge at full speed? Will the software be any good? Okay, you can ask those questions, but then you can ask most of the same questions about the upcoming non-Tesla NACS-equipped cars as well. We haven't seen how well those car makers are going to handle the transition. You might hold out and wait for a NACS car from Ford, GM, etc., only to find that the first NACS cars they put out haven't really solved all their problems either. Nobody's got a crystal ball, and many of these companies don't have a great track record thus far, especially with software.
I always look for cars that have depreciated and get good deals. My first EV was a LEAF for $8000 and second a Bolt for $12000 with a brand new battery.
people often will buy a cheap adapter, and we all know what happens with cheap products....just think of a cheap iphone cable VS a decent one that is MFI cert.
EV owners typically have home charging/and or own second ICE cars, and would be crazy not to, so road charging is much less important and can be planned ahead for road trips, and of course an adapter is a small price to pay for the occasional road charge….
I’m getting an affordable 2018 with a new battery. By the time the new standard cars are affordable (pre owned) in 2028, I’ll be ready to upgrade. Home charging can meet all my needs until then.
The man is right. Why would you want to buy a used EV with an outdated charging port arrangement? Believe Sony had the same problem when North America standardised on VHS years back.
Don’t worry, the whole discussion is entirely pointless in the rest of the world: It’s CCS2 everywhere except the US and since the US is only the third largest market for EVs, there’s no reason at all to expect all the rest of the world would convert to NACS. The video is misleading in that sense that there is no „secret protocol advantage“ in NACS over CCS: my Tesla in Europe works totally fine with its CCS2-port, all features are there. This is a US-only debate.
Well in Europe it is CCS all the way and CCS is the standard on Tesla cars sold in Europe. Tesla is the winner in one segment, but brands like VW can offer electric cars in several segments. The Id BUZZ van is very popular in Norway. You will see thousands on the road. The 8 seaters from Stellantis and Toyota are popular in Norway. The Ford Transit and Transit Custom are popular cars. The new Renault Master can drive over 400 km on one charge.
I don't think the NACS standard supports three phase charging from home as you need more than two contacts to support that type of charging. In Australia that's a big thing as it makes the difference between being able to charge your car at home in 2 hours versus 8 hours.
the chevy bolt is probably the most underrated vehicle right now. the prices are plummeting too. it's cheap, small and fast. it's important to realize how impracticle EVs are. however, the smaller the vehicle, the better. The sheer size of the battery on a Tesla makes it a ticking bomb. I love the Bolt because of the parking and the space. It zips around town and you can navigate through traffic like nobody's business... it's a good golf cart, which is the real purpose of electric vehicles.
Well I recently got a Bolt EUV and I LOVE it except that I have to charge for an hour for every 3 hours of driving on the highway. That's stopping for a meal and it requires some planning. I AM grateful that there are enough free CCS and J1772 chargers that I've paid virtually nothing to drive the first 7000 miles on it. That wouldn't be an option if it had NACS, at least I don't think there would be many free DCFC options. I'm eager to hear about the adapter plan for us CCS owners and I'm not happy about the depreciation except that maybe it'll make acquiring more used CCS cars cheap in the near future.
Newsflash: there is a world outside of the US - where we use CCS! Even Teslas outside of the US are delivered with CCS contacts in the car. AND, in the US, Tesla is now equipping Superchargers with adapters so that CCS equipped cars can charge there. Really weird to see this video where one is supposed to think that there is totally unthinkable that there could actually be an EV market outside of the US....
If you always charge at home it won't matter if it's CCS. However, if you invest in a wall charger for the garage don't get a CCS only one. Get the Tesla Universal Wall Connector because it has both plugs available so you can use it with your CCS car now and with your next car also.
I charge my Tesla using the in-garage CCS charger that was installed for our Chevy Bolt. All of this really doesn't matter as much as it is being made out to.
Most BEVs will be charged at home anyway, so it really does not matter much. I have CHAdeMO connector on my PHEV and used in only once in 4 years and only to see how it works. It makes absolutely no sense to overpay for electricity while using public chargers unless you are on some long trip somewhere once or twice a year. For some frequent travelers the message is clear, get the Tesla and for anyone else, I would say get what you want as all connectors will be compatible sooner or later either directly or via adapter. Even CHAdeMO DC charging plug is now almost available for CCS chargers.
It's simple - just incorporate the adaptor head required into the charging station unit. Enter the car type on arrival into the charging station screen and the unit then releases the head type needed ... It's not up to the owners to carry around adaptors. On another note - once countries adopt the NIO power charging infrastructure and swap model all problems will be solved. Move on Viking. Please let your subscribers know any underlying interest you have in Tesla. I'm tipping you're a shareholder. Bias everywhere again Mr Viking.
Total rubbish on all counts. Nobody's interested in paying for battery swapping. And Sam is not a Tesla shareholder. Get some grounding and skip the righteousness
Wrong. he NIO model is an economic disaster. The invertory of charged batteries waiting for customers but doing notthing is crippling. Swappable batteries are a dead end.
Hi Sammy! And I've just bought BYD Seal. So far, everywhere it is CCS. And if the future is NACS? Well? Adapter it will be! For me! No any other way! Unless? -- to swap it for Tesla? As for now? --- I am happy with Seal!!! Have a Happy New Year Sam. Adam from Adelaide. Bye. All the best.
Plus, you'll be charged higher prices when using a Tesla Supercharger. If you try to use an alternate charger, you may have to pay double what you would at a Tesla Supercharger.
We all agree that Tesla isn't the only best EV maker. However, there really aren't many other choices especially in the US. I would still choose Tesla from the fact that it has longer range than most other brands and access to the supercharger network. I know I mainly use my Tesla for commuting and I rarely charge it other than home. But, my recent interstate trip from Florida to Colorado proved it that the SCN is the very most reason to get Tesla! Since, I now live in an apartment, I charge at the nearest supercharging station, and it's always working and quick. If someone can come up with a scoring system to compare EVs by model and brand, I think the public charging availability is the biggest factor in valuing EVs. Thanks for the video, Sam.
the bolt is $10k cheaper and actually qualifies for an immediate $7500 discount in America . A Tesla is certainly worth more than a bolt , but not double.
All technology becomes obsolete. This argument seems valid in North America. Australian tesla comes with ccs China and Europe have no plans to change. Something to watch but as I have an EV I wont scrap it yet. How complicated would it be to put a different plug/socket on the car? I only need to charge away from home on holidays an adaptor seem a modest inconvenience.
The logic in inescapable. My personal plan is to keep my (very nice) ICE vehicle running for another two years. By that time, the price of new EV's will have dropped very significantly, as will the price of used EV's. At that point, I will be buying a Tesla. Don't particularly care about self driving, but do care about cutting edge technology, reliability and the best odds of owning a vehicle supported by a manufacturer that is still in business. .
John Goreham is crazy to make such a broad spectrum statement. My dad is interested in getting an EV for his next car but could never drive a Tesla due to his neuropathy and arthritis. Touch screens are impossible to use for many disabled drivers, stalks are necessary for directionals and wipers for those with limited dexterity, and square wheels are hard (therefore dangerous) to manipulate when backing up, for people with limited coordination. And I don't even think my dad could get into a Tesla if he had to fiddle with a card. But, one thing he could do is plug in any type of connector in his garage, he'd never drive more than 30 miles in a day. This might be representative of only ~7% of the driving population, but that's still millions of cars.
The NACS standard being implemented for North America I can understand as it makes a lot of sense to standardise the plugs used to charge all EVs. However, NACS doesn't support three phase charging as we have in Australia, NZ and I would imagine many countries in Asia and Europe. I read an article on the NACS standard being adopted here in Australia and I read that it wasn't possible because of the way our power distribution is set up which is very different to that in North America. It is a pity that the world doesn't utilise the same standards but in reality, European, Asian or Aussie cars are never going to drive on North American roads so really, it's a bit of an irrelevance.
That simply shifts the sales of CCS cars to Europe, away from the US. RHD countries have their special treatment, as does China with its own charging standard. International car manufacturers still have to provide different standards - just US consumers get a uniform experience in a vastly greater network.
It’s all irrelevant in the biggest markets China/SE Asia/Oceania and Europe. Tesla is of America by America for America and the only customers listened to are Americans. Roundabouts matter…….but Americans doesn’t have them. Dummkopf !
The only country outside of North America that's likely to go NACS is South Korea. They use the same 120V AC standard as the US and Superchargers there are Tesla plugs not CCS. Korea uses CCS1 which is essentially dead, pushing up the daisies, kicked the bucket, shuffled off 'is mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin' choir invisible. Now that Hyundai/Kia have gone NACS in the US it makes no sense for them to stay with CCS1 at home. 240V countries are stuck with CCS2 forever. The EU mandated it so Tesla never had a chance to develop a three phase version of their plug. The same pressure for an alternative isn't present in the EU like it was in the US. The CCS2 networks mostly work, the US CCS1 networks don't. If Electrify American hadn't made a dogs breakfast out of their network NACS never would have happened. If Jim Farley hadn't tried to do a road trip in an F150 Lightning NACS wouldn't have happened either because the management of the legacy automakers were blissfully unaware of how bad EA was.
Tesla Superchargers in the US run on a three phase 480 volt supply circuit. They convert the AC supply to a DC supply inside the supercharger and supply DC current to the car, unlike the level 2 charges that provide AC current to the car where the car's internal charging unit convert the current to DC. There in no reason that the NACS charging standard can't be adapted to any of the voltage standards used worldwide. Australian residential voltage standard is single phase 220-240 volts at 50 HZ (US is 60 HZ). the current Tesla level 2 charger already supports both 50 HZ and 60 HZ.
I see you don't know how US houses are wired. Incoming power to the breaker box is three phase, we just split the 240 v three phase into two sets of 120v single phase single breaker. But if you use 2 breakers (line 1 and line 2) you return the source to 240v three phase for level 2 charging.
They should make the charge ports recessed and have an adapter that fits over the recessed port for chademo, CCS or NACS then it will always be upgradable to whichever standard or country the car goes to. (Although the best part is no part so perhaps that's a bad idea)
So while I totally follow the argument of higher depreciation, what I DON’T get is the claim that this „is not only about the plug but a protocol“. Outside the US there IS NO NACS. Everyone, including Tesla users CCS 2 outside the US and as a driver of a Tesla I can attest that they are able to deliver each and every feature over CCS quite successfully. So what is it that this protocol isn’t good enough in?!? What exactly is the problem here? (Mind the gap: what the rest of the world has is CCS2, the US has CCS1; I do not know the difference.)
Buying a Tesla is a low stress decision for most folks, especially in USA. The car has navigation fully integrated with the Supercharger Network… plus a lot of destination charger. Very efficient in electric use. The UI is simple and easy to use and software upgrades are smooth. Quality is improved and is now very reliable. Negative is the spartan interiors.
My beautiful simple spartan Tesla interior is the best car interior I’ve ever owned in my 35 years of driving. Better than any interior I’ve had in my 2 Mercedes, 2 BMWs, 3 Volvos, 3 Lexus , 3 Toyotas, 3 Fords and 1 Chevrolet.
Hail the monopoly. Everyone should drive the same car - Tesla and use the same phone - iPhone. All it takes for government to control your life is to order these two companies to hand over their data centers.
Currently driving a 2017 Chevy Bolt EV...was planning to hold onto it for a while, but the CCS charging network sucks! I'm seriously considering moving to a Tesla Model Y...but it looks like I've still got 1-2 years to make that call :)
I’m getting a 2018 Bolt EV with a brand new battery for $15K that I plan on charging at home and using as a commuter car. We have a hybrid rav4 for camping, skiing, and and road trips. I am replacing a 2006 Honda with NO safety features 😂 and mostly wanted to save money. I am very happy with the car.
I LOVE my Bolt! Bought it new, had it for nearly 7 years (~85k miles driven). It's a great car, I also charge it in my garage (Level 2 setup) and it works great! With the dealer battery replacement, I regularly get 275 miles from a single charge, but I'm a conservative driver (started with a 2014 Fiat 500e that only had 87 miles of range...).. Good luck with your Bolt!@@ladyeowyn42
Yep, John's right. Tesla is so far ahead of other automanufacturers, there's really no contest. Elegant design in engineering is what to look for, and Tesla is on another level compared to other manufacturers.
What "auto manufacturers" are you referring to? BYD? SAIC? GWM? CHANGAN? NIO? XPENG? WULING? DEEPAL? MG? ORA? If not you don't know the global EV market. The world is not America.
Sure I have a charger at home, but why buy a car you can't use for trips when you can buy one that can? There is just no reason to limit yourself. @@windowman9665
@@sunrisejak2709 Taking all manufacturers throughout the world into account, Tesla has more elegant engineering than all of them. I'm not saying every vehicle should be a Tesla, other manufacturers offer great vehicles. Still Tesla engineering is more refined and advanced.
I hate the fact that Tesla uses the name Tesla. Nicola Tesla invented an alternative fuel car that wasn't the environmental horror that we currently have with EVs.
Chargers are added to and removed from networks all the time. Why is it a problem to add a whole bunch all at once? What sat nav system doesn't have this feature? Maybe the new cars without the new standard connector will be reduced, providing an incentive to buy them now. That wouldn't be especially surprising. Imo, that's not a valid argument. Having to carry an adapter is a valid point, but it's not a very big issue, imo.
Would never buy a Tesla. Too many things stuck forever in beta and not working. Basic things like windscreen wipers and parking sensors don’t work. Now they’ve removed indicator stalks. Crazy. Makes the car unbuyable. As for charging, don;t think I would ever use a public charger. 99% of my driving is journeys of 30 miles or less.
@@Tschacki_Quacki Yes, the point I make is just because a current EV does not have the charging plug that is no reason to not buy it if all other things in regard to said car are what you want. Thank you.
@@christopherj2231 I agree. What people seem to forget in the NACS adaption debate is the fact that Tesla is also upgrading their chargers for CCS capability.
Just bought a Tesla Model Y long range AWD. Friends told me I should by a hybrid - not an EV since I live in CO and want to take road trips to MT, AZ, CA and so on... But I was lured into EVs because I have a solar panel system and I like the technology. However, it appears that Tesla are the leader in technology and gave the best range for the price. Then there's the Tesla Supercharger network. I looked at the other charging stations networks and they're a joke relative to Tesla.
Admitting I'm an EV-dummy for the moment (still a petrolhead): do I understand correctly that not all public charging stations are useable for a specific type of car? So that in fact, I may pull up to a charging station with a near empty battery and simple not be able to connect? If so, how awkward is that...
There's no point in making the choice based on charging on the road if you charge at home most of the time. The few times you need to charge on the road, an adapter (and the Tesla app if it's a Supercharger) will do. Cars are depreciating assets, who cares about resale value? As long as your downpayment is strong, you'll get as ahead of the depreciation curve you're gonna get with EVs.
Nissan Leaf, which still has Chademo charging plug, is still selling well in Norway. CCS2 has been "the standard" for years over here, but customers doesn't seem to care. There are a lot more CCS chargers than Chademo, and no CCS-to-Chademo adapters, so in my eyes this is much worse than the CCS/NACS in North America. The NACS-to-CCS adapters looks pretty small and easy to use, so I wouldn't see this as a big problem.
They're right, just wait till 2025 when NACS ports are in the other EVs, it will make your life so much easier. My R1S reservation is ready to go but I won't pull the trigger on it until NACS is in place. 7.5 years of Tesla ownership (X, 3, Y, S) and lots of road trips. I'm not doing it without NACS and I don't want to mess with adapters.
I agree 100%. I currently own a Tesla and did an experimental road trip using only CCS. It failed. I had to fall back on Tesla SuperChargers twice or wait over an hour to even plug into a charger. I wanted to buy a non-Tesla, but for now I'm staying with the Tesla until I can get something with native NACS charging. Why would I have a car for the next 10-15 years that I have to screw around with an adapter that may or may not work well. Better to just wait for a year. I think the other car makers really screwed up in waiting so long to switch, and then taking over a year and a half to possibly finally deliver a NACS vehicle.
CCS is not dead... It's being supported along with NACS and has to be, because so very many CCS cars are out there now in North America. This isn't like Chademo, where only a very small number of BEVs had that charging port; at least 1M CCS cars are on the streets of the US, and counting. CCS won't be replaced in any American-sold non-Tesla BEVs for another year or so, and that roll-out might be slow (i.e., many might not get NACS ports until 2026). So the number of CCS cars in the US is growing rapidly. The US federal funding for chargers will mandate both NACS and CCS chargers. As for it being "dumb" to buy a BEV that's not a Tesla, I can argue that it's "dumb" to buy a Tesla if buying a BEV. So many other BEVs are just made better and safer, and they don't have the stigma of Elon Musk attached. Most people use their BEVs entirely (or almost entirely) within a hundred or so miles of home and charge exclusively at home -- using either a PHEV or an ICEV in their stable for longer trips, or simply renting an ICEV for out-of-town travel. Only the very few who venture out on long road trips in their BEVs may wish they had a Tesla (vs. pre-NACS non-Tesla BEVs). The interiors and exteriors of Teslas really suck in my view, and in the views of many others. Most people want physical buttons/dials for climate controls, etc. (indeed, the federal government should ban the touching of touchscreens while the car is in motion, just as states have done for cellphones), most people don't want all-glass roofs, most people don't want retarded electronic receding door handles, and most people want a good instrument panel in front of them.
Good Idea to switch to NACS, but I believe more important is for any charger to take a credit card instead of using an app. ( From what I understand though is that Tesla cars can be recognized by the charger and without any input of the driver, the charger can bill the car/driver automatically )
That is the problem. You are tied into a cosy Tesla led cartel. Here in Europe chargers are CCS2, accept contactless and do not need accounts or apps. Automatic billing is an illusory advantage.
I agree. It would be like buying a computer before they put ethernet into them for Internet connections. You need enough cameras on the auto for FSD in the future. Most don't have cameras and are not even planning for AI self driving.
In Australia the near-universal charging standard is the Type 2/CCS. All Tesla chargers are this one. All EVs use this. Only Nissan Leaf seem to be the odd one out, using CHAdeMo I think. Government regulations on EVs have specified some things as standard here, like all cars (including EVs) must have immobilisers fitted (since about 2000), all EVs must activate brake lights when regen-braking. I reckon the charging type is unlikely to change any time soon. Anyway, if it did, you just need to have the requisite tail to connect.
I've seen 2022 model y performance for 40k. You can't Beat the amount of range and speed for it. I do wonder when Tesla is going to have a solid state battery. I wish they had a model 3 hatchback in America.
The Supercharger network (and NACS charging, by extension) is the primary reason I bought my Model Y this year instead of any other manufacturer's vehicle. But to predict doom and gloom for existing cars that use CCS is just hysterical drama. It is certainly beneficial for everyone that new cars are adopting NACS. And a new car shopper would be wise to insist on NACS. But the impact to use an adapter for charging is practically zero. This is especially true of the 80% plus of people that do most of their charging at home. In fact, a used car shopper might search out a car that uses CCS just to get a better deal on the car.
My universal wall connector is getting installed on Tuesday. Maybe snag a CCS EV for discount late 2024 😆. My daily is a 2022 M3 LFP. I call it my forever car 🤞
@@acolon8999 These are petty differences in so many ways… As I said “in the UK…it’s not yet an issue.” North America is a small percentage of the global population. Whether NACS becomes a global standard or not, just thank Elon for what he’s doing. P.S. Please have a good Christmas. There’s more important things.
@@John-FourteenSix Good morning and Merry Christmas to you too. After reading my post again, I probably came across as an A H*** it was not my intention and I apologize for that. Thanks for addressing it as an educated adult. My intention was to say that it is for the North America market only. I doubt that it will become the standard in any European country but time will tell. It is not the official standard here in the US but it appears that it will become the standard which is nice because it means that we won't have to deal with the bulky CCS1 connector for fast charging plus the J1772 for Level 2 charging. One easy to use connector for everything. Merry Christmas and have a great 2024.
I agree with him- and even elsewhere in the world. Did you see the price of a replacement Hyundai Ioniq battery in Canada? Absolute disgusting extortion. Kia is basically the same company. A new Tesla battery is about 1/3 the price.
So overblown. I rarely need to use a public charge station anyway. But if I didn’t have an EV already, I’d be concerned enough to find out what the manufacturer was doing about this in Australia before deciding on a purchase.
I was sceptical at the start of the video about the connector issue, having used an adapter to fast charge my Tesla no problem. But taken all together, his points make sense. However, the biggest point I think is... Tesla makes a profit, and makes more EVs than all the rest combined, while the other makers are constantly in and out of EVs, cancelling models and making new ones. Who wants to have an orphan vehicle that no one will make parts for, because it was only built for a few years, with low numbers, then abandoned? While Tesla makes the best selling car model in the world (not just best selling EV, but best selling car model of any type), so is quite a bit more likely to be around.
I fall into the bucket of people that slightly regret not getting a Tesla. I bought my Polestar 2 back in March of 2023, and unwisely not even considering the charging standard being an issue. I thought they would just build more CCS chargers, and there would be mainly two standards (Tesla and CCS). The only reason I don’t fully regret it, is if I’m taking a longer roadtrip, say 500 miles, I prefer to take my wife’s SUV. Just so much faster using ICE for the 1,000 plus mile road trips. But I know the depreciation will hit it hard, but the car suits my needs like 99% of the time because I charge at home. The only issue is when I go to get a new car, my car won’t be worth nearly as much as I thought it would be. Oh well, early adopter penalty.
If a massive market like domestic car ownership is so warped that only one brand is worth having, then you have a messed up market. This demonstrates exactly why there’s so many people who refuse to jump into the EV market. It’s still an early adopter’s game and will be for another 10 years. A game for the rich and/or foolish.
Yes, this will definitely push many buyers to Tesla in the year 2024 and 2025. EV sales will drop for Honda, Acura, VW, Hyundai, Kia, Ford, GM, Nissan, Mercedes and BMW. Good news as this shift in buyers will counteract Teslas lower sales from lost EV tax credits.
It's not a tough one Tesla had their chance in the EU and decided against it. Instead there are now a lot of companies that produce their own charging stations and since CCS is the standard they pretty much have to use it and Tesla is in no position to change anything. On my ways I would have exactly one Tesla supercharger on the way but more than 50 alternative destinations to charge. So no I think this is a US only position.
As a Tesla model S driver. He’s talking rubbish. The charging infrastructure is the only superior thing about having a Tesla. Mercedes and BMW have far superior cars in every way in comparison
