My Mustang Mach-E had a software update about 2 months ago which speeds up the charging curve and I had 40kW speed from 80 to 90% and 20kW between 90 and 100 on DC fast charging.
Great video, above all else what this video proves is that there really needs to be hundreds of these forecourt’s throughout the country. Enough of the single unit back of a car park 50kw nonsense.
Ioniq 5 and EV6 winter charging lifehack: don't run the cabin heat until the charging speed picks up, at which point you SHOULD run the cabin heat until charging is complete. This stops the heat pump from scavenging battery heat from a too-cold pack. But once it DOES start charging quickly, DO turn on the cabin heat as that will start the heat-scavenging from the battery and help stop it from over-heating. Bjorn Nyland suggests that a more permanent fix would be a software update from Hyundai/Kia that would instruct the car run the PTC heater for the cabin when fast-charging when the pack is cool, and then switching to the heat pump when all the modules in the pack hit 25 degrees or higher. Conversely, in hot weather don't run the A/C in the cabin when fast-charging so that the cooling system is fully available to the battery pack to keep it cool and stop it from overheating. Unless you're desperate for a cool cabin and willing to live with slower charging in exchange, of course. Generally speaking in the winter you'll arrive at the charging station with a warm cabin, and in the summer you'll arrive at the chargepoint with a cool cabin, so living without HVAC briefly is probably not a hardship in most circumstances.
The KIA and Hyundai charging speed really look to be limiting by more than cold gating in this vid. Peak charging is half of what Bjorn demonstrated that the KIA was capable of in his recent tests. I believe Bjorn showed they should have taken off at like 20%
@@vinnieomahoney6359 in the OP’s and Bjorn’s scenario you should only need to keep the heat off for a few minutes. Only long enough to get past the initial cold gating. Cabin temperature is not going to be that drastic of a change.
Hm I do not know: you pay 50-60000 for a car to then freeze or sweat to death? Besides the thing that you then cannot let your dog stay in the Kia/Hyundai on a hot day? In the model 3 neither of each is a problem. Rather spend 5min longer but have no trouble like that. And yeah they should fix the software
Cheers from the States. Tests like these are SO helpful. I've decided on an ID4 and these videos do a lot to confirm that it's a solid choice for me. I don't road trip much and normally only travel around 50mi per week so comfort, boot size, and purchase price weigh more heavily for me. I'll be looking forward to tests of the VW ID6 when it becomes available to replace my trusty LR3.
I enjoy all the effort and passion you bring to testing and reporting EV info. We bought our Model Y in July 2020 and love it’s performance (added the Performance Boost Upgrade, my DRAGY shows 0 to 60 in 4 seconds) range, efficiency, ease of charging and payment and OTA updates. It really is the complete EV package.
@@joey-pn3xe it feels a wee bit more firm than a BMW M or MB AMG. I came from Corvette’s and other American muscle cars and SUV’s and love it. But I found if you play with tire pressure you can “tune” it. Tesla recommends 42 PSI COLD or about 2.9 bars. That’s on the HIGH side for passenger vehicles, so I will lower them to 38 PSI/2.7 bar for city use. On long road trips where I want MAX efficiency I pump them up to 44 PSI/3.0 bar. I wish could post a photo of my B Trip Card that has tracked my info since new my LIFETIME data is 12,402 miles, 3,186 kWH at 257 Wh/mi or 19,960 km, 3,186 kWH at 160 Wh/mi. I live in the mid-west (near St Louis) so we get all four seasons. My road trips usually average 1900 miles/3057 km to Maryland/east coast and my average Wh/mi has been just at 275 Wh/mi and that’s without the Aero Caps. If you have any more questions just ask. USAF Retired
@@thomasjacques5286 That's great efficiency. In 31k miles my efficiency is at 266 wH/mile on my Long Range Model Y and that's without the Acceleration Boost that you have which I am sure doesn't help your efficiency. I do have the 20 inch induction wheels though which makes it less efficient. A few weeks I drove a Model Y with the Acceleration Boost for the first time. I did feel the difference and was thinking that it works be a nice Christmas gift to myself but just like I did last year, I am going to buy some Tesla shares instead. If the price drops to 1k I might buy the Acceleration Boost
Watching 300 mile range EVs roll up to a massive Gridserve forecourt and charging at 350Kw is the future, not sitting in a dingy car park at a Polar 50kw.
another point form what I notice form Bjorn Nyland's channel, both the E-GMP cars Kia and Hyundai scavenge heat from the battery, they do not warm up while driving with climate control on (quite the opposite), Tesla's newer heat pump Model 3 suffers the same fate but has the advantage to pre-warm batteries for programmed charger most efficient charging speed. I hope Kia / Hyundia do the same on the next software upgrade and not scavenge so much heat from the battery.
Another useful video. Confirms my thoughts that the EV6 would be perfect for me and my family had it been in budget, alas the Ioniq EV I settled for has been very efficient (avg 3.8 m/kWH), but unfortunately is back with the dealer to investigate a 12v battery discharge issue. Once I can afford it, I think I’ll trade in the Ioniq for an EV6 or one of the new 800v architecture offerings from Hyundai-Kia.
I’ve already ordered an EV6 gt line-s awd without the heat pump and have been watching many of the review videos. Which get very ‘samey’. This video was however excellent. It is a great real world comparison, and also useful for range etc of whichever of the cars you might be interested in. Thanks for doing a very useful test and video
A heat pump is just a refrigerator - its a compressor device that moves heat from a cold place to a warmer place. The warmer place is the cabin, the colder place is the outside and you consume a bit of electricity to move that heat between the cold and warm sides. Some people prefer to think of it as a refrigerator running in reverse and heating up the interior of the cabinet. But its the same thing.
The difference is Tesla use theirs to heat the battery pack to preheat it to optimal temperature for charging based on the navigation data. The Kia heat pump appears to do little more than add weight. Shame really. Good charging speed is all about optimal battery temperature on arrival, in the 30° region for most cars - for a lot of cars you can monitor that with an app & OBDII scanner
@@stephenwensley9328 - Yeah, the genius of Tesla is the octovalve multi-valve fluid-routing array that allows the cooling fluid to be routed between all components that generate or utilise heat. That allows efficiency increases by moving heat around to where it can be used rather than letting it be wasted. The Kia is probably only using the heatpump to increase the efficiency of cabin heating.
@@stephenwensley9328 Tesla uses the front motor to heat up the cooling fluids which then heats up the battery. Heat pump is mainly for cabin. You can hear the front motor working harder when it's navigating to a supercharger. Kia uses a stand alone heater for the battery.
@@15bit62 Kia has had a heat pump for at least 2 -3 years before tesla for heating the cabin. None of this is new and has been used in industry.... increasing complexity though greatly increases costs when it does need repair. Kia also has a heat exchanger that takes heat from the components and battery and can also be reversed. However, this in industry is nothing new and everything Tesla has done has been done before. All sourced physical components such as the battery came from other companies and the vast majority developed by them. The new battery size is simply a new size of battery with not much increase in energy density. The only thing that happens naturally with larger cells is greater output and greater capacity which is normal for that size of cell. It is not a genius of Tesla. Tesla is only using the economics of scale and that is mostly done and calculated by the workers of tesla not Elon Musk. Elon himself does not have the capability to think that was after thinking he would put hyperloop on rail in one speech and not realizing that it would not work. Anyone with basic understanding of HVAC knows hold vacuums in such large tubes is asking for trouble if it even holds and even more issues attempting to hold the vacuum.
Interesting video. The wife and I are seriously considering the EV6. Went and sat in one the other day to see how I fit (I’m 6’4”) and was blown away by the amount of interior space. Absolutely love the “look” of this vehicle.
@@TheTrueWelshIdiot LOL! I went to go test drive the one and only EV6 this dealer had (the same one I sat in over a month ago), and it had been sold. I can’t find any more Kia dealers here in Catalunya with the car, so the test drive is gonna have to wait. Yes, this would be my first EV.
@@Appalling68 I hope you get to test drive one soon! It's a jump worth making, and I've heard nothing but good things about the Kia. Hopefully you like it and it's worth the wait!
Very interesting thanks to all for a good vid. One suggestion, rather than 'back to 90%", since the battery capacities are different, can you also prorate to "time to add 100 miles' or similar? Because time to get back to 90% is obviously adding different miles. I appreciate this is done effectively on the first test, eg 'mileage to get back' but would be interesting to see how many miles they added in say 30 minutes.
I'm a geek and proud (not sure my 3 sons agree). Thanks to everyone how helped with the test. Very useful to highlight it's not just battery capacity to look at, but motor efficiency and charge rate, including any charging power maps that the car has (Mach-E). Good video and test.
The heat pump works in the same way as the fridge chiller. It absorbs heat from one side and transfers it to the other using a compressed gas that turns to liquid (and back again). It’s more efficient than a PTC heater, up to about 5 times more efficient, so 1kw of power can deliver up to about 5kw of heat either into the battery or passenger compartment. A PTC heater only delivers 1kw of heat for every 1kw of power.
@@markwilliams5654 still it would be way better than standard heat coils.. even if it’s just 5% better instead of 200% it’s a win it’s better than resistive coils .. no?
Tremendous effort from the team to make this happen. Just shows how far ahead Tesla is in efficiency and the scary thing (for the other manufacturers) is that the Tesla will be the first to receive new battery tech whenever the new cells come to market which will boost efficiency further. I reckon I could do exactly the same trip times in a Tesla as I do in my petrol car as my stops for toilet and/or food would be sufficient to charge enough. Either way, nearly all these cars are capable for the average driver/family on normal trips.
Its a shame Tesla only offer a bone-hard riding model Y, or a too small saloon model 3. The undoubtedly have the better technology/infrastructure, but their cars are second rate.
Thanks so much guys! It’s so much work and I appreciate yall for posting such a nice comparison video on some amazing EVs. BTW EV6 and model 3 are very impressive, top notch according to my taste. My family is small so I would pick one of em if I can afford it in near future! Anyways, keep up your good work! Thanks
Completely geeking as well:) as I am close to taking possession of an Ioniq 5 here in Canada. Thankfully live in BC Canada, a milder climate in the country. Thanks for this video brother this is a great video, nice job. I have a pre order as well for EV6 but it does not come till March here and don't think I want to wait as I prefer the Ioniq 5. Would like to see this same test during summer weather. I would love to have seen the Polestar 2 in this charge shootout
This is so cool, the way you compare cars and the way you do it. Ok so things are not optimal for some cars but this shows how things are when you are out driving. I love it. Keep up making these unique videos 👍😊
Great video. You explain in a layperson terms how its like to really run an electric car on a longer journeys. Can’t wait to watch the next video you do.
For me it’s about the car earning its keep. £240 a week in diesel isn’t funny but an EV if I’ve worked it out right will cost me around £65 a week for about 1200 plus miles a week
I most impressed about Id4. The biggest car of the bunch with biggest clearance not the best drag and without heat pump but still as efficient as EV6. Thanks for the video. Keep up a good work.
This is great information, thankyou, in the middle of test driving all these and trying to calm my wife's range anxiety before pulling the trigger on one
I know this is an old video but really helpful, I’m looking at either Ioniq5, Mustang, or EV6 or a Q4 e-tron on motability in the next month or so and leaning towards the first 2 but as my first EV this vid has been really helpful! Thank you guys, subscribing and will be watching more
Interesting comparison and liking the geekery 🙂 - wondering how my EQC would have done on that 🤔 In the cold the range quite quickly drops below 200 miles, but the charging speed holds up quite well to 90%+
This is a great video! I think as we hear more and more about charging speeds it’s good to be reminded that it’s charging speed plus efficiency and you can see here how they add together. For job!
Yes we are all geeks! I love these videos showing a real world test of these cars and their efficiencies of driving and charging! I'll never be able to afford any of these cars - I'd like to see a Golf sized car with a 50kwh battery and 350kw charging, but the technology comparison is superb!
Loved the video! I’ve a 52kwh ID4 on order but have been hearing that range is around 200km in winter which seems really low. The ioniq 5 has me thinking I should change my mind, it seems to get much closer to the claimed range.
One important aspect that was not considered is the wheels size. Ioniq 5 is with 19" and EV6 is with 20". So the actual range difference is bigger than what we see here in favor of the Kia. Also i am not sure which of those is RWD AWD and it is another major impact to the range. Otherwise great review !
Great video, great team you’ve got there. Your videos are informative and entertaining! No easy feat, that. I’m not a geek or nerd or wonk. I’m a guy who likes to get in and go, no muss no fuss. I’m not keen on shaving seconds off charging time, hypermiling, or the biggest (making somewhat anti-American 😄!). Facts and stats do come into play, but I’m also interested in quality, reliability, features (tech), and usability. All that being said, the video was great fun, well planned and executed (brilliant, I believe is the word), and informative. Look forward to more!
You guys seem to have had a lot of fun there. Nice material! I drive the same Tesla M3 with E5D LG battery for almost a year now and my record charging speed was 255kW for a split of a second at 2% state of charge this summer. I wonder if the M3 you got there was “navigating to supercharger”? I assume not as I get about 10kW more charging power at 37% (15:46). So, maybe the driver (Chris?) was just focusing on “showing” low consumption on the first leg with the sacrifice of “slow” charging afterwards. Also, on the return leg, the car would normally consume a lot less (assuming no wind/landscape influence) because it will pool the heat from the battery to heat up/maintain temperature in the cabin. Do not underestimate that, it can be easily between 1-2kWh/100Km 😉 Cheers and thumbs up from an EV/data geek! P.S.: No mention of F1 after Saudi Arabia crazy GP…
4:55 What people always seem to ignore in these tests is, "Why did you drive 200 miles in the first place?" Certainly, you didn't drive 200 miles just to turn around and drive back, so the time required to recoup that used energy is largely irrelevant.
Veary informative all bloody good cars 😊 my favorite still the Tesla but that lonq 5 looks amazing. Thank you Richard, Keith Motors, and Chris Saving our Earth team effort 👌 realy want to take our electric car to Braintree 🙂🌍
I do like Richard's adventures in ev's, now imagine these places when most cars are electric and you could spend hours waiting to charge I love my m3p that I bought from rsev but I'm also a realist.
80k views.... I've seen some s*ts getting millions...you guys are so patient and putting heck a lot of hard work...I wish this would cross million views soon..
Awesome video, great effort! Interesting: if the start and target SOC was 80%, the Tesla would have won even more dramatically - and the Ioniq 5 would have been scary.
@@reefscanner it highly depends on the rims. The Model 3 with the 19" sport wheels should be rather comparable to the Model Y with the 19" aero wheels.
I have 6/2021 model 3 and consumption has been 160w/km last 28tkm. I have toved big trailer etc and not driven always so nice and i have ingenext bonus module with drift mode so i think car is quite efficient. I have ordered EV6 gt and thats nice car if compare minimalist Tesla💁🏼♂️
Very cool test!! Have a camera and tripod setup on each screen while charging next time then graph the charging curves along with your tables and you my friend will have a perfect video. Thank for a great real world example!!
20:53 I don't know how widely available the update is, but Ford recently released a patch that increases the Mach-E's charging speed after 80% (up to about 50 kW from the 12 kW it did originally). It might be worth testing out.
Much more interesting than Max Verstappens last race tactics! Thanks to Chris, and Keith Motors for the support of your great tests. I’d have the Mach e from that test, or the Model 3/Y. Cheers SnG.
Glad to finally see a video where the efficiency of the car is properly considered, after all why should a car that doesn't need as much battery to get home have to charge to a much higher and arbitrary amount like the less efficient ones as that doesn't tell the story. While the Tesla gets the headline for efficiency, it doesn't get the headline for battery size or charging speed. But it will get to the destination first when the combination of all three are taken into account. However in the summer the Kia might match it... With the cost of rapid charging its worth nothing that efficiency means lower charging costs and if you have solar at home a smaller installation to meet your day to day charging needs... One of your best videos to date!
Great vid. Really enjoyed it. Would be good to understand what the update on the Mach-e has done to the charging curve now as those results are quite disappointing. Any chance of a re-run?
Great video Richard! I am a geek like you! I like these comparisons, honestly I can’t get bored of this. I would really like to join to you convoy with my 2016 model S 70 with 123k miles! I am not sure though it would make it to the Gridserve charging station in this freezing cold!😅
Really enjoy your videos the time and passion you put into your content it’s always seemed to be compared to Tesla though and being a fan boy yourself of Tesla I’m not sure you compliment other brands or manufacturers strengths gtreat video as always carry on the good work Richard Elon loves you
Great Video. Apologies if I missed it but would be interesting to have a comparison of cost to charge before leaving for each vehicle and the cost to charge on the motorway, so a comparison could be drawn between each car and even between a similar trip in a petrol or diesel car. Great video, keep it up 👍
Does anybody know why the Kia/Hyundai cars seem to have a slightly less efficient motor over their previous Niro/Kona counterparts? You would have thought a 64kwh battery with a c.280 mile range would equate to something similar or better for a 77kwh battery!?
Really battery % can not be measured since all different in the cars so it may be better to use the kWh used and so the cost per mile would be better And then it will include energy loss during charging the cost to run the car for fuel should be as important as cost of car ownership.
a Heat pump has an efficiency of around 300% compared to a direct electric heater, the effciency of the heat pump will drop slightly when very cold but still 200% efficient. a heat pump takes heat energy and raises this by changing a refrigerant from a liquid to a gas and then increasing the pressure of this gas, which increases the temperature. Similar technology to ground source, water source or air source heat pumps, these are all the same but they take their energy sources from different places, ie the ground, the water or the air.
Our more humble aspirations run to a Corsa or a Leaf. I'm disappointed with the range and the non-CCS of the Leaf so the Corsa looks like it might be the one. We just need a car with 150 miles range in the winter and we don't need big and brash.
Thanks for another great video! Also curious about the cabin quietness and ride comfort aspect - since your team has driven all five cars, how would you rank them in this aspect?
I think we saw the "odd" characteristics of the Korean battery again. There's a "low temperature and "high temp" sensor output from the pack (I think modules are split 50:50) The "hot" modules won't fast charge until the "cold" modules reach 20°c (hots are at 30° by then) But then when the hot modules hit just over 40° (45?) the charge buffers again with the "colds" at below 35°. That's why the charge rate chops around...... Especially in cold weather because the cold reading can be well below 10° when the hot reading is 20+. Needs work!
In Bjorn's testing, his conclusion was that for winter charging you can "game the system" by not running the HVAC until both modules hit 25 degrees. But then running the HVAC thereafter so that the heat pump is pulling heat from the battery pack, and slowing the rate at which it will approach the upper temperature at which the charging rate will throttle. Doing so will get the charging rate up into the sweet spot faster, and keep it there longer. And it's not a big sacrifice, as you'll arrive at the chargepoint with a heated cabin, and you might run to the washroom or get food during that first chunk of time anyway. So I don't deny that it's not ideal, but at least it's easy to compensate for. :)
@@abraxastulammo9940 I believe he discussed rapidgate in one video, and both rapidgate and coldgate in a subsequent video. I believe it MAY have been this one... ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-YoWETRlSCoc.html And if it wasn't, then it was probably this one... ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-9nJvq92TQC0.html And if it's neither of those, then perhaps I got it entirely wrong. :) That said, it intuitively makes sense to avoid behaviours that would trigger heat scavenging until all modules in the pack hit the minimum threshold (25 degrees) where charging speeds up, and then DO trigger heat scavenging as heat continues to rise in the pack to avoid it reaching the temperature upon which heating slows down.
@@ScrapKing73 In his graphic he explicitely advises to use HVAC while it heats up and then switch it off for just 10 min so the compressor can work for the battery cooling and then you can switch it on again after that critical phase.
