EV vs diesel - tow test in detail! 

This is perfect. You just saved me a $$$$. I just bought a 2nd hand Atto3, it comes fitted with a tow bar. I had vague plans to convert my little cargo trailer into a camper but now I'll just keep it for doing dump runs and picking up bales of mulch. For road trips I'll take a tent or just kip in the back of the car instead. Thanks.

Great detailed breakdown. One of the best comparisons I have seen yet.

In my opinion there may be two reasons why the range is so affected, the first reason is that the Honda is over all more aerodynamically effective than the Pickup, so if you break down aerodynamics it has more effect. The other thing is that those Permanent Magnet Motors are a bit tricky to be made effective at higher speeds with heavy loads because you would need to lower the fields of the permanent magnet. ZF is currently developing an engine without permanent magnets, which has some drawbacks, too.

Absolutely incredible work. Thank you

Great Video really fascinating information !!

Great Video. I really enjoy your presentations and your style. I felt sad for you to see you charging an Ioniq 5 (a 800 V battery) charging at 50kw charger. I hope you have a 350KW chargers available as well so you can charge from 10% to 80% in 18 minutes.

You've fallen into the same trap I did recently, some chargers display the rate of charge in kW, others show how much charge has been transferred to the car in kWh. The chargers you used show the latter, so Alex's Kona had taken 12.5 kWh from the charger while your i5 had taken 19.5kWh (it had been there longer). The actual rate of charge is not visible on those chargers, but the i5 would have shown the rate of charge in kW on the dash while it was charging.

Interesting comparison but if I’m to replace my diesel Territory with an EV, I sure as hell will be using the heater/ AC on trips. So I’m disappointed you didn’t set the climate control to say 23c in both vehicle as a base line because no one in Australia would drive on a trip without using climate control.

I would be interested to see the effect comparing a petrol suv/crossover to the ev. In UK diesels are hit with low emission zone charges so people are now switching to petrol cars. So to compare a petrol car of similar size to the ev would be really interesting to see

You could at least have just had the fan on mid speed blowing air (no heat or cool - fan only) both vehicles. Oh and good luck charging when the internet is down. Charge bays need to be just like fuel pumps - drive through/past so you don’t have to unhitch. To be fair, petrol it better for towing in every way over diesel for the similar reasons, in my opinion - aside from the range. But it’s just more fun and easy to tie with petrol rather than diesel and the extra fuel use is worth it. In Australia with an EV - Charging is THE biggest issue along with range especially with towing.

As for EVB towing v turbo diesel towing, hmmm,. its a matter of convenience, unless the makers of rechargers start to think in a more logical fashion re: drive through chargers then drivers who tow with an EVB are screwed over right now. As for actual driving between the two? the results from the US are showing the F150 Lighting is a great tow vehicle save for the actual driving range but compared to the petrol F150 with its out dated leaf spring rear suspension the IRS equipped Lighting is like a SEAGUL, its craps all over it. the other thing is car markers using 400v tech and at this stage here in Australia I don't know how many DC150kW chargers there are out there to take advantage of that let alone 800v tech for DC 350kW chargers. Relying on DC 50kW chargers is slow, you are better of using off peak AC charging with a recharge box that can output at 7.2kW (of if you can afford one the 11kW recharge box although you would have to get your home rewired for that thus extra $$$).

Very informative. Trailers with an ATM less than 2 tonne but over 750kg often have hydraulic over-ride brakes so going downhill its natural desire to increase speed (gravity) would be partly negated by the hydraulic coupler compressing and applying the trailer brake . . .me thinks.

great video, thanks for posting. one thing that's apparent is the opportunity to make caravans etc more aerodynamic ( and weigh less). Also, do you think that by not 'braking' ( using brakes) while going down hill with an EV, ( no brake controller operation) that there is more possibility of trailer sway? Somewhat similar to modern auto ICE vehicles that drop back gears 'automatically' when towing downhill? ( where the brakes are not operated)

Hate to put a dampener on the enthusiasm for EV towing, BUT - no aircon/heater used in this test, no night driving, no wet driving requiring wipers and demisters. The Ranger or other ICE are not affected by these things, but the EV range would drop to probably 100k at best on a cold, windy, rainy night.

It's not just range. It's durability and reliability of the vehicle design. Most of the existing evs rely upon independent suspension designs, lower payloads and are built on a design principle that expects shorter drive life. Sure the electric motors are efficient but will these ev designs withstand years of abuse towing near maximum and maximum gvm? I'm not sold. At least the F150 lighting has a solid rear axle and mechanical locking rear diff.

Have you an SUV vs Electric towing video? Maybe with a 2L diesel engine I know that a X6 3.0 diesel with 210kw takes like 6,5-7L/100km solo.

Very interesting. Great Video. What Id like to know is the cost of charging time? If it takes 2.6hrs of charging time in your experiment, what would you allocate the cost of waiting for the car to charge? 2.6hours is significant and on a say construction site it is typically $65/hr labour hire (opportunity cost) or float charge? Cost of actually running an EV is not so efficient as first thought?

Road-abuse charge for EVs has been ditched now, thank God! You really need to do this test again using the Ioniq 6. Its 610km WLTP range and DC fast-charge from 10% to 80% in 18 minutes really is a bit of a game changer. That 400 km tow would require just the one stop for a charge and it will take no more time than the diesel driver takes going for a coffee and a piss. I can get my coffee too while the car is charging.

Isn't it illegal to tow at more than 100kmh in Victoria? If so, that limits the towing speed on both EV and diesel.

yeah that sucks now but i am fairly confident that this problem will be solved in like 10-15 years because of better batteries. :) but ofcourse i could be wrong.

EV will probably need gearbox to extend its range during towing. If a diesel engine only has 1 gear (say 3rd gear), it will be screaming at 4000 rpm+ doing 110 which is no good for fuel consumption.

Short answer: They suck!! Look at a recent TFL Truck episode (ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE--e55Vued028.html) and they had the Ford Lightning pulling about a 6000 pound trailer and it could barely go 100 miles. That's really pathetic if anyone thinks they are ready for real world use. And have fun trying to pull it into a charge station without blocking everyone else. They figured the price between the Ford and the other truck ICE powered were very similar and that's at today's super high gas prices. Anyway all things considered it was an abject failure when used as a truck is often used.

Good video again Robert, I think that the EV's would be very desirable as a tow vehicle for a horse float/livestock prime mover (fumes & noise) but the shape/aerodynamics of the general trailer and total loaded trailer mass would eliminate most EV's getting to the starting block, plus while at the horse event very few venues would have charging facilities

What if you used a ev tow vehicle in comparable ability to the ranger? I do not see this test as a very good test.

No vehicle of any sort meets all the use cases that can be asked of it. There are always compromises. Statistically, these use cases are what manufacturers build for. At the moment we have the luxury of Ford making a 4 door off-road vehicle that someone can use for most all use cases at home, holiday and work with the compromise being cost and heavy fuel use (compared to say an i30). But as the smaller and larger high volume cars become electric the cost to make Ranger type cars for the few that use them in all there capabilities is going to rise. Being able to tow long distances is a very Australian thing and even then it's a rather small percentage of the market. Probably too small to be worth making ICE engine cars that are copies of the large EV cars but have the ability to tow long ranges. Most towing is to the tip or is short range. Even tradies tow well within city limits and not too far from home base or depot. You don't need to go far out of Brisbane to set up a caravan for the long weekend. That puts you within range of one charge to make it work. For those who tow longer and or often, they are a tiny percentage of the market. I don't see manufacturers offering a Ranger along side a skateboard chassis RangerEV. Best find your target tow vehicle now and learn to keep it in working order for a long time.

Those trailers are small. very small. A UK caravan would be at least twice the weight.

Robert you say that E.V's are superior in every way other than range, how about tow capacity? Is the max tow capacity of an E.V. comparable to a diesel vehicle? EDIT: Ok you covered that at the end of the vid. Thanks for a great vid.

It’s not like for like suv /ute. And no air conditioning use Australia would be unacceptable to most.

I rather the Ranger

I think ev driven trailers will be great.

pretty much the same result as US reviewers, again the issue is battery capacity, once you work out the conversion from kWh to petrol energy you really can see that while EVB are again extremely efficient (its 9.8kWh per 1L) the issue is battery capacity and that is something that right now can't be resolved since each cell is 3.6v and the more cells the more weight which is why at this stage for large scale touring at this stage especially here in Australia EVB are not viable.

Since this video came out, DC fast chargers are at least 50% more expensive, and diesel is actually marginally cheaper. Insurance premiums for Electrics are through the roof, and depreciation of Electrics is through the floor like a lead balloon

Now work out the total costs over 10 years for both with the cost of a new battery for the EV! Then you'll have the real cost.

It took ICE 100 years to mature to the efficient, long lived machines they are today. With EV's the motors are already a cut above the best ICE, but the batteries, oh the batteries...and I can't see any breakthrough that will give us 10X the energy density that is required for long distance/towing. I read that some crowd in the UK is about to start making synthetic fuel (for F1 I believe) from CO2 in the air and hydrogen from electrolysis. Apparently it's $10 litre, so if it goes into production may rival fossil fuel prices. Now, should that become a reality, ICE will continue for many years to come and be environmentally neutral, and most importantly give us the energy density we actually need for long distance driving/towing.

you'd be stuffed if you lost your phone, and you are forced to use a whole lot of apps you may rather not have on your phone, for this. the emergency cash I keep hidden for those moments seems unlikely to work?

Towing, eh? What vehicle can tow more than any other? A locomotive. I'm a train driver and whilst EVs are new to most people, I've been driving them for 40 years. I can tell you for a fact that an electric loco is superior in every way to a diesel. They're quiet, both in the cab and going by if you live near the tracks. They don't vibrate, which causes the driver less fatigue. They need almost no maintenance, just sand and cab water which is like air in the tyres and water for the windscreen washer in a car. No fuelling, no checking engine oil and coolant. When they complete a run, they're ready for the next one right away. They are more powerful. The biggest diesels in use today have around 4,500 hp but electrics can have 10,000. HOWEVER, the only reason they work on the railways is because they're fed by an overhead wire with an endless supply. No charging required. So as you've said, an EV is supeior in every way except that they need charging way more than an IC vehicle needs fuel. If that could be addressed, there'd be no reason to own an IC car.

This comparison isn't valid, for, at least, 2 reasons: 1. You'd fill your ICE vehicle tank to the top, which takes mere minutes. Not so for the EV, since you're stopping at 90% “for the sake of the extra time it takes” although you did mention the reduced range across all modes for the EV, & requires many minutes, if not hours, depending on the EV & the charger, every time the EV needed to recharge. 2. While testing your EV, you forbid your companion to use the fans, & presumably the air-conditioning or heating too, since that takes extra battery power. This is not realistic, nor a fair comparison. I doubt that you placed no such restrictions when testing your ICE vehicle. The common-sense verdict: The ICE vehicle wins.

The concept of electric vehicles may be perceived by some to be great but from a practical perspective, l see them as a dismal proposition to long distance travel, particularly more than 300-400 kilometres from a major city or regional towns. Not to mention the complete lack of charging stations, to cater for the amount of electric vehicles that the “system” hopes the population will be convinced to buy to “supposedly” save the planet. 😊

Not a word about the benefits to the environment. Disappointing.

Good video. Really drives home the need for fossil fuels!! Let’s see ya tow a John deer tractor 100 miles. Hahahahahaha.

Too much mucking about with an app and the need for a “charged up phone” for my liking. Pity those that would need to put on their reading glasses to navigate their app and hopefully it isn’t pouring down with rain and there is plenty of adequate lighting (if its nighttime) and hopefully all of these chargers are “undercover”. (Which the one you are using isn’t) These electric vehicles are being introduced to society at a rate that far surpasses the amount and accessibility of charging/docking stations. For me, l’ll just keep my old school vehicles (1990 F150 4WD 351W V8 & my 1979 Mercedes Benz 280 SEL ) They cost little to own and operate. There wouldn’t be any financial gain for me to sell them just to buy an electric vehicle that costs a fortune to buy for such a small saving/gain in travelling costs. The up and coming generation will buy them, as they know no better. They are easily convinced by government propaganda and the hype from climate change activists and many other useless do-gooder groups that are saturating society with their outlandish brainwashing claims. 😊

EV should not leave the 60k zone, leave the towing to the boys