That’s rather a very interesting description of how haggling worked and what were the rituals to go through in order to buy land in a time when there were no recognized states no written laws and certainly no notary. I am not expert but I suspect most of the expressions used like “you can have it for free” were code for something else. I have seen documentaries on nomadic tribes still living in desert areas nowadays and this biblical passage strongly reminds me of their way of concluding trade transactions. I find it very sad that all the cultural and historical significance of the episode is lost in the eyes of both atheist and religious modern readers.
I found your channel thanks to Atheist Experience. This is the best Bible study. Please do the whole Bible! I like how you read it word for word, so no one can criticize you for twisting the words.
A couple of quick history notes: The Hittites lived in modern day Turkey not modern day Palestine. No Hittites are known to live in the region where Abraham lived. Far more important, the Hittites lived, starting, 400 years after the time of Abraham, the latter according to the bible. So 1200 miles and 400 years apart. Great Job Moses, you missed it by this much.
Correct most Biblical timelines have Abraham living from 2018 to 1843 BCE. The Hittites first show up around 1600 BCE with the height of their empire in the 14th century BCE and never extended anywhere near Hebron. But no matter. To apologists, when the Bible disagrees with what has been discovered by archaeologists, the archaeologists are always wrong.
You are both wrong. The Hittite kingdom did show up around the time of 1600 BC, as what we refer to as the Hittite Old Kingdom, but the people there referred to themselves as Hittites (likely due to their forefathers, the Hatti) far before a centralized kingdom was established. There is a question as to why Hittites were holding property in Canaan during that time, which was also the decentralized time of the Babylonian region, which ended with the ascension of Hammurabi. No idea there.
Far be it from me to give the Bible any credence, but there are a couple of important notes to add to all this. First, the classical Hittite Empire at one point stretched into the Levant. Of course 'Empire' is a nebulous term, but we know that their 'sphere of influence' extended at least as far as Kadesh in the Levant, either by way of direct vassalage, client kings or military alliances. Syria was a particular stronghold. Much like Egypt, the imperial memory of Hittite influence would have resonated in the area for long after the Empire ended. The other related point is that there were so called 'Neo-Hittite' or 'Syro-Hittite' states that endured and outlived the original Hittite kingdom south of the original Hittite heartlands, with the underlying assumption being that the Old Testament writers, living in what we guess to be roughly the 9th-6th centuries BCE, may well have been better acquainted with these latter day states than the original Hittite Empire. It's all guesswork though, because the Bible is riddled with anachronisms and confusing chronology. The main thing to note is that the Old Testament writers had about 1,000 years of Hittite history in Near East to draw from. It doesn't match up with the Abrahamic timeline, but from the perspective of people writing in say the 8th century BCE then Hittite names popping up in Syria in the Levant kinda makes sense. Of course they gave them a ridiculous backstory as having originated from , the son of , but that's the Bible for you. Also re. the above, the original Hatti were (somewhat) indigenous to the area in Anatolia, but it took an alien, Indo-European speaking ruling class to forge their culture into a legitimate kingdom and imperial Bronze Age power. So yes, the Hatti were a people for centuries before the Hittite Empire, but the Hittite Kingdom only came into being with the arrival of the Indo-European speaking military caste who fused with the indigenous Hattians, and took on their name thereafter.
I read the whole thing when i was having a "crisis of faith" when i was a young teen. I was always under the impression you had to believe in something. I didn't know atheist was a thing... I thought i was flawed. The bike drew me further so i looked into other "holy" or religious texts... And here i am. Still an atheist but I'm aware now it's not a flaw or defect
@@infernal216 i went to church as a kid but not to prayer, but every other weekend because they had free BBQ... 🤣🤣 I remember, i went to a religious school. i still remember the prayer we used to say. Before eating lunch, It was "God Bless This Munch as we munch our Lunch" cringey asf. 🤣🤣
And meaningless, considering that Man, a violent primate, owns what he takes from others, as can be seen throughout the annals of continual war and conquest.
earlier god told abraham that all the land belongs to him but for some reason he has to pay for it now because others own it despite it being his. non of this shit makes any sense unless you completely disregard everything and make up your own story like many apologetics seem to do.
I have this mental image of what happened: Abraham: "Dammit! No one's going to use my wife as fertilizer! *I* am the only person allowed to use/sell her body! Tell me how much the land costs so *I* get to own it!"
Sorry? to say it out loud: it's not surprising that a bunch of old men came up with stories about young women, virginity, prostitution, child-bearing, sex slaves, menstruation etc
@@r4h4al she bears, foreskin obsessions, talking donkeys, the earth just stops spinning for a while, iron chariots, human sacrifice, bible porn... and a few other things.
That's why we need not to depend on others to school is on things we can read for ourselves.. Many have read these stories but still accept this ruthless bogus so call god..
@Josue Olivas The Bible disagrees with everything we have learned from Anthropology Archaeology Astronomy Astrophysics Biology Chemistry Cosmology Dendrochronology Genetics Geology Geophysics Hydrology Meteorology Mineralogy Paleontology Petrology Physics Zoology For the Bible to be true, all of these fields of study have to be wrong.
Does that mean the foreshadowings of Jehovah’s promise to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is going to play an important role later on? Abraham is asking for an entire cave from the Hittites just to bury Sarah. He must be really special enough to be called “My Lord”.
I have to say, hearing this makes me think about a trick liars try to use to make their lies sound more plausible. They use a great deal of detail, one might even say an exorbitant amount of detail. When I hear someone tell me a story, tell me every word exchanged and every possible detail one might observe, I believe the story less and less, as most people can't retain THAT level of information.
*ANCIENT FISH or ABRAHAM?* it's just a matter of accepting from which *ancient ancestor* do you (your family & your loved ones) really came from: A) from an ancient fish called *Tiktaalik* B) from a man named *Abraham* (the Father of Many Nations)
They were selling land in a wilderness during that time? And when and where did they mine the silver they supposedly used for currency...... From South Africa or Democratic Republic of Congo?
There was extensive travel and trade all around the Mediterranean during the Bronze Age. Most likely the silver was being produced in what is now modern day Turkey. As somebody else pointed out here, according to the the Bible Abraham lived from 2018 to 1843 BCE.
@@emmazoryonmoore3840 Mind you there is no precise consensus among Christians, but they all pretty much follow this timeline to within a few decades for each event. All in BCE. Adam 4026-3096 lived 930 years Methuselah 3339-2370 lived 969 years Noah 2970-2020 lived 950 years Flood 2370 Tower of Babel 2200? Nimrod great-grandson of Noah Abraham 2018 - 1843 lived 175 years Captivity and affliction in Egypt began in 1913 Moses 1593-1473 lived 120 years Exodus 1513 Before the Flood, either Adam or Methuselah was alive. Methuselah's grandfather Jere lived to be 962 and Methuselah's grandson Noah lived to be 950. Abraham was 105 when the captivity began. He was the ninth generation from Noah. Issac was born when Abraham was 100 and lived to be 180. He married Rebekah when he was 40 so that would have been in 1878 BCE en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_Genesis_patriarchs
@@oscargordon You did not answer my question..I was expecting you to tell me how from creation to that particular event we are discussing: 1000 years, 2000,3000 years? According to Christians the world is 6000 years old, so howcold was the world when this event happen? When you give your answer then we can compare with with scientific facts as far as bronze age, etc
Bad can be funny. Remember The X-Files? If you have watched it in, ehh the nineties, I think, you should totally watch it again. The terrible acting, the plotholes. It's amazing! In the two-thousands it got a lot less bad and it was turned into a sort of self defacating comedy which was still enjoyable, but a lot less funny.
@@GeneralArmorus It actually was though. Especially the earlier episodes. I loved the show then and I love it now and the topics of the episodes were fun and even scary at times, but trust me, if you watch it back now you'll see a whole lot of plot holes and terrible acting. The plot holes aren't too bad though. I'm more talking about how it's very often not shown how giant leaps are made and locations are picked to investigate and then convenience fills the hole and all that jazz. Not really a problem in sci-fi/fantasy, but it's definitely not airtight or logical. And if that doesn't make you laugh, just enjoy the amazing fuzzy hair -super thin on Mulder's head; so thin it's sad :p - and oversized suits :p And let's not forget the phones! So yeah, it's not bad as in the show was horrible or badly put together, it's just really that old and you have probably never remembered how the actors grew in their roles and weren't all that convincing in the earlier days of the series. It's really nice to see that and of course laugh at what we then thought was completely normal in terms of acting, hair, clothing and story telling and Mulder's baseless wild ass guesses leading them exactly where they needed to be. Just consider the amount of similar myths across cultures and he guesses the correct one every time? Of course :p But in a universe where the supernatural is actually normal and people still don't believe in it, why not. I can suspend that bit of disbelief and roll with it :) Though, Scully should still ask for better reasons than his dumb ass smile :p In a real world situation. If she did that in the show it wouldn't be nearly as fun as it is. She still should, but she shouldn't be written as doing so. They're great just the way they are.
I'm agnostic but looking for religion. You're an atheist always attack christian no other religion that you attack. Are you serious an atheist? Why not talk about islam? Why not jewish?
Because he's an american living in american society where christianity is the most widespread religion? It's most relevant to critizise considering its toxic impact on politics, education, womens rights and more.
Also all 3 are abrahamic religion. All 3 share the same foundation and split off at different points. But if it makes you feel better, Judaism and Islam are bullshit too.
@@IsaiahFisher19 Then I'm going to Hell. But your god knew that before he graciously allowed me to be born. You can't just decide to believe something (even if you wanted to). You believe a thing because it seems true. The Bible does not.
*1 Corinthians 15:1-4* - I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, ... by which also you are saved, ... that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, and ... was buried, and ... rose again the third day… *Romans 10:6-13* - ... if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. *John **3:36* - He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him. *Revelations **20:15* - anyone not found written in the Book of Life [will be] cast into the lake of fire. Anyone found in the book of life will "not hurt of the second death" (Revelation 2:11) *Mark **1:15* - The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand. Repent, and believe in the gospel.
Because he's an american, and christianity is the most widespread religion in american society, politics included. He's doing something important. Belief in flying unicorns doesn't encourage or glorify homophobia, bigotry, sexism, genocide... If that ever happens I'm sure atheists will be first to oppose it openly.
TangerineTangerine see This guy in one of his videos compared how believing in flying unicorns and God are the same scenario seeing how neither have physical evidence. Hence just the way he doesn’t believe in flying unicorns and I don’t we just leave it alone right? If you don’t believe in unicorns you don’t make an obsessive hobby trying to prove flying unicorns do not exist ... you just let people believe what they want to believe and leave your life as a happy person who doesn’t believe in flying unicorns And if the rest of the world doesn’t agree with you,,, just agree to disagree and live your life. Plus Christianity isn’t violent or oppressive towards anyone like most of the other religions. We are a peace loving people and love everyone.. we don’t hate hence why hate us?
Feiner Fug in what world is Christianity promoting sexism and genocide 👀 Maybe you need to properly read he’s comment. I was really going soft on him in my comment
TangerineTangerine Christianity doesn’t promote sexism or genocide When do Christians ever blow up buildings or tell women they can’t do anything ? Do you even know what Christianity is bro?
Feiner Fug first and foremost I thought America was a Christian nation and those “ symbols “ and prayers in schools basically are Christian I believe you’re famous slogan is in “God we trust “ But I agree with you on the prayers in schools shouldn’t be forced on kids seeing they are many religions and all have different beliefs.
*ANCIENT FISH or ABRAHAM?* it's just a matter of accepting from which *ancient ancestor* do you (your family & your loved ones) really came from: A) from an ancient fish called *Tiktaalik* B) from a man named *Abraham* (the Father of Many Nations)
@@grrsss8335 do you honestly, seriously & wholeheartedly ACCEPT that an ancient fish called *Tiktaalik* were your ANCIENT ANCESTORS? yes, that includes --> you, your family & your loved ones
There’s no evidence that Abraham even existed, unlike Tiktaalik, sorry. A schizophrenic who heard voices in his head telling him to stab his son, and burn his body is the “father of nations”. In modern times, a guy like that would be in prison or a in mental hospital.
@@rickmartin7596 well it has proven to be good resource material. I prefer that over the myth of space aliens. So I am confident it is good material. My own critical thinking and research makes me very confident. Darwin is fake without a doubt. We are standing still and not spinning through space. So we can agree to disagree. My research professors taught me a lot about research. So I am good. If I really know God then He would let me know if it's valid or not through the Holy Spirit and showing me how the book of Jasher match up with the other books. So keep your sun worship system from the days of nimrod who led the revolt of the tower of Babel to overthrow the Most High. That's in the book of Jasher as well. But really I am persuaded my research is strong and valid. There is too much obvious evidence. Don't need the internet. My mind works great when I stopped feeding so much trash for television and the fake public education system.
@@johnhaslett6714 You can claim anything you want. If you claim something that has been disproven, you look uneducated. If you claim something that has been disproven a thousand times over, you look foolish. Do you think you attack evolution by attacking Darwin? News flash: it's 2020, not 1859! Darwin would barely recognize the current state of our knowledge. We have an entire field of study he didn't have. We have genetics -- we win. We have the tools to relegate geocentrism to the trash heap of history. If you don't know about spectroscopy, you better start studying before you embarrass yourself. What is currently sold as the Book of Jasher was written in the early 17th century. Of course it could match up details. Someone today could write a book with an old name and make it look authentic ... by using an old language and old texts as reference material. I beg of you ... do not spend your life living in the bottomless pit of conspiracy.
Hemant or friendly atheist Hello, nice form of presenting Genesis 23:, at least you didn’t make as many sarcastic and wrong comments in this chapter; sure I’d be more than happy 🙂 to hire you, as soon as you got your facts, history and cultural understanding and way of life in correct order. Until then “much to learn, you still have.”🙂
Rick Martin Scientists cannot duplicate the simplest organism in the laboratory, even having a working model in hand? How could chemicals assemble into the simplest organism, unguided, undirected in a mindless warm little pond or primordial soup or whatever?
Feiner Fug Actually you are projecting the naturalist, atheist techniques. The equivocation and exaggerated claims are genius while being total failures in even duplicating the simplest single celled organism.
@@vernonchitlen8958 Obeying the laws of chemistry, we go from simple chemicals to polymers to replicating polymers to hypercycles to protobionts to bacteria. What's so hard to understand?
@Feiner Fug After correcting the second error in that reply, I'm waiting for a repeat of the first error ... the line about not duplicating the simplest organism. It's sad that so many people are not up to speed with the latest advancements.
