Examining Chinese Grappling Kungfu - Shuai Jiao 

'Lots of throws in judo and jiu jitsu aren't possible because ofnshort sleeves?' Well it is true that they would be harder but that's to be expected. With a logn sleeve you're able to grip at the wrist for fontrol, and just above the elbow for even more control (you'd grip at the wrist to control gripping and at the elbow to set up throws). But they're by no means impossible, firstly you can always just grab the wrist, techniques like tai otoshi would work perfectly fine like that. And as fornthe others, there's no rule that says you have to grab the sleeve, we just do because it's easier. You can perform any hip throw with a double lapel grip, and to make it easier the hand on the side of the hip you're throwing with could go round the neck (as in koshi guruma), take a higher lapel grip (as in tsurikomi goshi) or go round the back (as in tsuri koshi or ogoshi). The reason people don't do this usually, other than the extra control you get by holding at the elbow, is because the opponent coukd put their free hand out to block the throw - but this is dangerous and could (and has) lead to many serious injuries, which is why you're taught proper ukemi and how to land safely; ukemi is a skill, a technique just like any throw, choke or armlock. When i'm in jiu jitsu occassionally i try a sode tsurikomi goshi, where the opponent has a free hand to block the throw (because i know the dangers i throw quite softly so that when they block they're not at risk of breaking their arm) but this leaves their other arm exposed, so i usually subdue it with waki gatame. So hip techniques are fine, just with some changes in grips some of which are done commonly in competition anyway. Hand techniques are harder, but most of them rely on Ju no Ro (the principle of softness) so that a grip on the arm is noot necessary. Leg techniques don't require a sleeve grip at all. Savrifice techniques are harder, though techniques such as tomoenage and sumi gaeshi are perfectly reasonable with a double lapel grip - some manuals even teach it this way, such that a cross collar choke is used ss a set up for the techniques. Although i'm sure sacrifice techniques aren't allowed in this style of grappling because of how they determine a defeat. So in short all the throws in judo and jiu jitsu are perfectly fine to do with this clothing, as i've detailed in a prior comment all the judo names for the techniques used here it can be easily seen that the two arts are similar in form, it is just that not having that extra control at the elbow, and the looseness of the uniform makes it slightly more difficult to get good control over your opponent. But i would love to see a match between a master of this style and a master of judo (not just a good athlete, but a real judoka) because it looks like they know all the same techniques, though i don't know what principles guide the movements in this style so i can't say whether that element is similar or different to judo's. Perhaps seeing kne where each competitor wears the other's gi, and ine where they wear their own gis would be interesting to see just how much a difference the clothing makes. I say this because a lot of people get carried away when evaluating martial arts and they see a boxer who always fights with gloves and say 'without gloves, he'd be great' but they see a judoka practice in the gi and they say 'without the gi he can't do anything', so to finally put to rest that the clothing your martial art has you wear doesn't necessarily hinder your abilities is something i'd be greatly interested in

Shuaijiao is my favorite style. The whole idea is to trip over the other guy. Doesn't punch doesn't choke doesn't incapacitate, just putting people down again and again. You can even reason with your opponent during the fight. I remember learning it as a kid and went to school fights, me repeatedly tripping some bully to the floor while pleading the guy to let me go... At one point he just gave up.

I studied shuai jiao. The short sleeve allows for faster throws so you can’t hang on the sleeve and also you can’t hold onto it and pull the guy down when you get thrown. And yes we did do no jacket wrestling.

True story, back in the early 2000’s I attended a JKD seminar in LA Chinatown Alpine Rec center. My training partner was a European dude who trained in shuai jiao. He threw me around like a rag doll. It was a lap sao technique which included a take down from close range. His take down was effortless.

I hate it when people say "Chinese Judo" when Shuai Jiao has a 4,000 year recorded history and Judo is 130 years or so.

There are chokes and joint locks but for competition we mainly practiced the throws.

First video is a fairly typical small class. Like after class worshops at the Shanghai University of Sport. To answer your question: a number of us do train with no jacket. You have to work on using the clinch to make the throws work. Only a few techniques don't work. Even then, you could try to get those to work if you used arm hooks(single arm clinching.) And the reason why the Da Lian jacket is short sleeved is because all shirts, in summer and winter, have short sleeves. And it is reported that since it's introduction, almost every style of Shuai Jiao has used a form of the Da Lian jacket. However, if you look at old photos and footage, you find that often times, the men wrestling are shirtless. Some schools do train with Judo uniforms though. Areas where special ordering Da Lian would be pricey or where they are hard to get. Like in a lot of American schools. One club I trained with used Pankration uniforms. Easy for them to get and are the proper sleeve length. And colour coded for easier judging. As for the chokes question, I haven't seen them. I trained 4-5 years at Shanghai University of Sport. From the training and competing, Shuai Jiao is about throws, trips, and felling. The jacket is too small to try a cross-collar choke throw anyways. Some schools teach light hand to hand for the purpose of reversals, similar to Muay Thai's kick catch, but that is to a specific style as far as I am aware. Their breakfalls are also very bad. Train it when they tell you to, but I would suggest using Judo/BJJ's breakfalls instead. And to the comment about adding it to Sanda. It's already in Sanda. That's where a number of Sanda gyms get their takedowns from (not all, but a large bulk do/did.) And at SUS, it is suggested those who love Sanda take the Shuai Jiao elective program specifically to work on the throws and felling.

"Shuai Jiao" literally means "trip over" lol

To answer your question at 7:35 about whether there are chokes in 摔跤 - the answer is both yes and no. In competition 摔跤, there are no chokes. The object is to make your opponent touch the ground with something other than a foot (i.e., knee, hand, butt, etc.). It's a little like ippon-style judo matches. In non-competition 摔跤, there are a number of chokes, completely dependent on who's teaching it. For example, the late David Lin taught suffocation techniques in his "Combat Shuai Chiao" series, and one presumes he got it from his master, the incomparable Chang Tung-Shang, who taught at Taiwan's National Police College. However, I am unaware of any of Chang's other students in the US teaching these techniques (at least publicly), and there were a good number of them (John Wang formerly in Austin, Daniel Weng in Cupertino, etc.).

Neat body mechanics. This would make mma clinches interesting...

Shuai Jiao rules prevent a traditional single leg. If you go down on all fours, you lose.

Many diff styles. Combat, Beijing, Baoding, Shanxi (I think this is the style that’s No Gi), et cetera. There’s also Sanshou Kuai Jiao (faster, less feeling out, not gi based, no going down with opponent, no holding - more aggression) Lavell Shaolin Marshall already blends / competes with BJJ and Russian Saambo stylists.

Shuai Jiao 摔跤(摔角) probably is THE oldest recorded Traditional Chinese Martial Arts which is used to train military for millenniums till modern days, Nationalists' troops during Sino-Japanese Wars were trained in this, modern military and police in Taiwan and mainland China are also trained in this. Shuai Jiao in North America and Europe is first introduced by KMT's military instructor 常東昇, you can do some research about him. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-1ZVnKY5R5P0.html ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-Nd3nMBgC4Y4.html Many of these techniques are already incorporated into various Traditional Chinese Martial Arts, particularly 長拳、洪拳, 八極拳, 形意拳, 詠春, even 白鶴拳, 螳螂拳, 鷹爪拳...etc, for a long long time, since Shuai Jiao is the oldest TCMA, modern SanDa(現代散打) also has these techniques. "踢kick、打punch、摔wrestle、拿join locks" are the four basic principles for almost all TCMA (particularly the ones which should be able to fight), but many TCMA practitioners don't know how to apply it into real spar fights, because most TCMA practitioners seldom do actual spar training which is the biggest problem of TCMA nowadays, I'm sure you already know.

Shaui Jiao throws are implemented in Sanda kickboxing it’s one major aspect that makes Sanda Chinese kungfu

ShuI Jiao is a great takedown grappling art 💯

Shuai Jiao is great addition to stand up fighting where your focus is not to go down. Coach He Guan De is a great coach classes are at Whittier college. It is not a sport for weak bodies!

Thanks for choosing my videos (2:26-6:00) as a part of yours and mentioning my link. Shuaijiao is a very effective approach for both standup and grappling game. Where are you located by the way?

I appreciate this channel dude! It is important as well as entertaining to break down and analyze these different respective martial arts cultures and disciplines!

ShanXi style shuai jiao is effectively no gi.

This is the first video of yours I’ve watched but i wanted to say you’ve got some of the best chinese pronunciation I’ve heard from a non chinese!

When you were talking about the poor body position with that single leg at 5.38 its because of the Shuai Jiao rules. He is not allowed to put his knee on the ground. You are not allowed more than two points of contact with the ground. So cant do effective double or single leg take downs. Youll notice before he got blue guys leg up he used a foot sweep to get him to raise his leg.

'Lots of throws in judo and jiu-jitsu aren't possible because of short sleeves?' I train in Shuai Jiao and also BJJ and this isn't really an issue. SJ has all the same throws and some different ones. The difference is in the Kaszushi (hope I spelt that right), The unbalancing. The short sleeves mean you can't pull/snap up to unbalance as in judo to get the Uke on their toes. Because there is no sleeve around the elbow. If you ever get to test it out on a Shuai Yi (name of Shuai Jiao jacket). Try pulling up and out and you'll have no power and might even lose your grip. So instead In SJ the unbalancing is usually done in short snapping downward motions or taking an upper-body grip and circling around and down either left and right, often acting in conjunction. So for example in Shuai-Jiao a Tai-otoshi which we call Bie. Instead of unbalancing on up and out you would pull down while circling to the outside cutting in driving Ukes posture downwards all the time. The throws are pretty much the same the step-ups, footwork, and grip fighting methodology is what's different. especially because you have to bear in mind the effects of the sports rulesets and how they have molded both arts. In Judo getting the other guy on flat on his back is everything because that's how you win all the setups for throws or takedowns take this into account. In Shuai-Jiao we don't care if we throw you on your back or not. It makes very little difference to the scoring outcome if you land on your hands or face first. In fact, we are quite happy dropping someone on their face, it just makes it easier to throw him again. Sure a getting both legs off the floor and over your hips in a throw scores higher. But even then it doesn't matter how Uke lands. This changes the setups for throws a lot. This is why after learning the basic takedowns the Judo way. From my BJJ instructor, I now prefer to adapt them the way I was taught in SJ. I'd rather land a take-down that leaves my opponent facing down on all fours, leaving his back open. Then take a guy down only to have him land on his back and still have to fight through his guard. Love your channel man, that interview with Alan Orr was really great!

My old club went from mostly traditional kung fu with sparring on fridays, to include wrestling two nights a week. When we started we trained in our usual uniforms (traditional chinese, round collar, row of knot buttons down the front) but they got totally torn up. Those jackets and pants didn’t survive sparring. So our teacher ordered shuai jiao clothes from china. More durable, no buttons, belt instead, but otherwise pretty much the same fit. We did a lot of sweeps and throws and fighting for grip on each others jackets, pretty much what you’ve shown here. We also did some chokes and armbars, but the way I remember it our ground game wasn’t as solid.

Shuaijiao is awesome. Though I've only trained in it a short time due to some injuries, I've been blessed to train with both provincial and national champions. It's legit. I was doing a little bit of sparring with my current teacher who's mid sixties and half my size (he was a former national champion) and he rag-dolled me. Also, to answer your questions, yes, there is no-gi wrestling, though the majority of ShuaiJiao is 'gi'd' if you will. Also there's some bleed over from Bok (Mongolian Wrestling) that comes into some northern Shuaijiao. And as far as that attempt at the single leg, the guy in white made three huge mistakes that I myself have made on countless occasions. First, he was too high. Second he didn't place his head on the leg...In Shuaijiao, you always place your head against the leg to use as a fulcrum for a single leg takedown. Lastly, his hand grip was too far up. You want your bottom hand to grasp near the ankle for more leverage on a ShuaiJiao single leg. Lastly, as far as I know there aren't any chokes in Shuaijiao, but I do believe they have them in Qin-Na which is a Chinese joint-lock grappling art. Though there are more standing techniques in Qin-Na, they also have quite a bit of groundwork, such as arm-bars, etc. If you want, I can DM you a couple of Qin-Na/Shuaijiao instructional/sparring and exercise videos that I've taken during my time living in China.

My former sifu Louis Linn incorporated schuai chiao (he learned from legendary fighter Chang Tung Chen RIP he's on RU-vid too), sanda, hard qi cong/breaking and shaolin o chin shuen in his style.. U could also do tai chi (good for basic body cordination and balance etc) and take boxing classes at the Stockholm Wushu Academy. He knew Bruce Lee and was supposed to be in a movie with him.. He starred in a few Hong Kong movies himself after Bruce died in the 70's tho.. Type His name here on youtube you'll see some cool shit he's a true OG, instructed viet kong and Swedish coast guards in hand to hand combat, had real fights and made us watch UFC in class back in 93'.

One of the best videos you have done! Almost perfect 🙃

I shoulda learned this, Sanda and Fight SCIENCE Wing Chun instead of Con-Fu animal punches. What a waste of my years and money

yes, please translate

Go check out the location near you. Maybe interview ? Would be cool to me, ask all those questions you had.

I don't think Shuai Jiao fighters are allowed to drop an knee to the ground on the shoot. You wouldn't want to do that anyway if you were fighting on hard ground.

Good footage!

I love seeing the circular footwork in that first video! I use the same footwork and reverse the direction to set up some throws in Judo. I

The guy in white short-sleeve gee was too high to finish the single leg take down, i'm surprised the guy in the blue short-sleeve gee didn't sprawl. Once you get the single leg from your shot (initial part of the take down), you drive the leg/person into the ground.

The throws techniques in sanda were originally from this

"Check out that guy's boots. Massive swagger". Best comment ever

What if a bunch of potent Chinese combative disciplines like Tai chi, mantis, baguazhang, sanda, wing chun, shuai jiao and others were combined into a cool form of super kung fu? Teukgong moosool, a South Korean special forces martial art, combines judo, aikido, taekwondo, kyeuk too ki and "Chinese martial arts." If Chinese disciplines are good enough for their best soldiers, why not everyone else? I think MCMAP and derivative styles also draw from Kung Fu.

A lot of the submissions and joint locks are under the category of Chin Na for Chinese martial arts while Shuai Jiao focuses more on the throwing aspect. From what I gather, Mongolia also has their own style/approach towards Shuai Jiao. They seem to have some strategies and techniques from Bokh wrestling mixed in, giving it a different flare even though they compete in the same matches as the rest of the practitioners. That aside, there are still various styles/lineages of Shuai Jiao in general, though a lot of them seem to have mixed their techniques together and can be difficult to distinguish when watching individual matches. Also, have you ever tried looking into the tools used for training Shuai Jiao? They are fairly interesting in that some are similar to modern athletic gear, and they also shed some light on the emphasis this style of grappling has that differentiates itself from others in certain aspects. As a place to start, I found "Shuai Jiao Belt Cracking" to be a cheap, interesting, and effective training tool to get started with. Especially since martial arts belts are cheap, many styles of grappling already have belts as part of their uniform (you can also use your old belts you ranked up from), and their are a decent number of videos that demonstrate how to train with it. Personally, I have found it to help with wrist conditioning, stance work, balance, power distribution, body mechanics, and grip strengthening to name a few benefits I've noticed when applying it to BJJ and Judo as the beginner I am. You can also adapt it to your throwing method, and free-style it to suit your needs.

That looks like a lot of fun

The short sleeve comes from the Mongolian/Manchu roots of the art. Shuaijiao jackets used to look a lot more like the Bokh jackets used by Mongolian wrestlers.

Shanxi style shuaijiao is non jacket.

short sleeves symbolise the armour because in battlefield when they lost their weapon they have to fight with bare hands and grap their enemies from the ends of their armour bring them down

Suai Jiao, practiced for a bit, cool style

Shuai Jiao is very cool. I took a few Shuai Jiao lessons back in the day, but I've done way more jiu-jitsu and judo. I remember the breakfalls were different. Instead of judo style slapping breakfalls, it was more about trying to round everything off and soften the fall. My current Shifu learned Shuai Jiao, but he doesn't really teach it.

As long as i remembered Cung Le, Sanda practitioner also purple belt in Gracie BJJ, but so sad he never used any grappling technique for finishing his opponents, Cung Le just use it for countering ground fighting so the fight come back to standing position...

5:48 That takedown is in every single Hung Sing Choy Li Fat form thar i know. There are some wrestling techniques in many WSKF styles. It is our job to recongize them and make them effective. Forms ar recipes, but we have to cook.

Chin-Na is the Chinese version of Jiu-Jitsu - with joint locks and chokes

Along with kyeuk too ki and lethwei, I always think of sanda as a form of shoot boxing.

For me it's the coolest wrestling style for watching

Pretty sure old guy with glasses in the first video is showing the bagua circle walking footwork

The Jiu Jitsu single leg takedown wouldn't score (or would rather score for the opponent) in sport Shuai Jiao rules because the knees touch the ground.

The throw by master intrustor schumaker is more of a trip and he is an instructor where i train. I train with master mollica in columbus ohio

At 6:40 Is that Captain Picard!?!

6:01 problem is your technically not allowed to do a traditional BJJ style single leg take down since having 3 points of contact with the floor is a lose of a point

So much of this is a part of traditional CMA but you guys dont seem to understand that.

There are schools that basically do teach san da and shuai together as speculated in the video one even does Hung Gar and Shuai and a lot of Chinese styles include elements of Shuai within their styles, but you won't see it because that part is barely practiced at large (Looking at you Taiji). . Believe it or not, Shuai has forms. It predates most known Chinese martial arts systems.

Sho bu. Beautiful. Martial. Arts

So basically this whole martial art is focused on trips

Umm....Shuai Jiao is part of Sanda, it just has a focus on specific techniques.

I have To say it's better than doing nothing , and it could be usefull for sur!

The first technique can also be used while ur running away and someone tries to stop you .that throw is AWESOME

They use traditional clothes instead of gi. And one of the rules is that the attackers knees or hand must not touch the ground which limits the single leg takedown. And No there is no locks or chokes just wrestling and throws. This is actually Mongolian. Check out the Mongolian wrestling.

i do sanda and that white jacket guy does his single leg just like me (bad) :D he is inexperienced i guess

Lavell Marshall Shuai Jiao World Champion

The difference is that in jujitsu/wrestling you can go to the ground like he did in the single leg, but in shuai jiao if you go down, you lost.

im not the firstt to say, but heres my two cents: flower of life...

For a channel that does commentary breakdown, there's surprisingly little information presented here

This can be applied 🤔thier geea is designed as today's clouths that's good. Nobody waere's a karate jacket But groin attacks with some Hurricane! With this Lethal! Finishing move is "Crazy face "

This and sanda put together is much Chinese military training.

Yes translate 😁

They can't do that in mma cause they don't wear shirts

Wait. So *nobody's* gonna say anything about random-ass Jean-Luc Picard out there?? 😳🙄

Look like the stuff i did in wrestling no, it indistinguishable except more choppy

You sound like 3/4 asleep

Shuai sparring is called "bull fighting". If you want a good way to work your lungs go for it lol

Look up chin na Chin na fa Fuckin deadly Devils hand.

it doeesnt matter if you know the ultimate truth, what can you actually do about it, with it? ay?

there is plenty of no gi, especially if you are in the US, and you can grab anywhere on the body.

If dude at 10:00 would have hit pavement 🥶

Larry the cable guy Gee

Shuai Jiao comes from Mongolian wrestling or a root style of both. The jackets and boots are a call back to that.

You sound like the typical white asian or Asian white guy. I don't know. No derogatory racism. Just saying. Lol love your content. Found you here recently.

no chokes bruh. i'm from Baoding (保定) the city got famous by shuaijiao(摔跤)，there is style call BaoDing jiao(保定跤)，but now a days very few ppl study this old combat art. when i pratice judo 16 years old i saw one of my class mate who got fight with shuaijiao guy, that was epic fight. in my mind, shuaijiao is way better than other chinese traditon this fist and that palm. all fake, shuaijiao is real.

Shuai Jiao is one of several "roughneck" kung fu styles. There's several branches of chin na, or grappling that specialize in ground fighting. I'm a kung fu practitioner myself, having trained in hung gar, and there's a BIG loss of techniques when someone isn't "in the door" disciple status. Old kung fu masters would go to their graves rather than teach someone who would misuse the "deep secrets", the dim mak (nerve strikes), chi (kinetic body movement), or other skills. For example, there are 108 Eagle Claw locks. Most students would only be taught like, the first 50 or so. For a long time the others were supposed to be lost, until a student ran across an old gentleman who knew the rest and taught him. There are literally neck snapping and throat crushing techniques. They work because Eagle Claw guys train their grip to retarded levels and body mechanic knowledge. But almost all the old masters died without passing on their knowledge. There's all aspects of fighting in almost every kung fu style, but there's that unfortunate and intentional hold back of skills to students who aren't the chosen heir of the style. Because China has NEVER been at peace, and someone will ALWAYS try to hurt others, even if you try to change them, some people are bullies, and it was thought that better a lost skill than dead people.

It looks like judo if judokas didn't forget legs could be attacked

They only throw and not finish the fight..... better spend your time on Judo if you want to throw

So coool, so coool! Americans 😂😂

mma don't wear shirts

It translates as "short sleeved judo"...