ExJW Turned Therapist 

I'm so glad Debbie talked about the pain of being a *shame-based* person as an adult, since I think this is one of THE most pernicious results of contact with Jehovahs witnesses as a child and young person. Thank you SO MUCH Debbie for the book recommendations on shame, I'm definitely heading straight to check it out.

I really appreciated how she explained how the shame and trauma persists long after someone decides to leave. Especially how those who were in it during developmental periods lack so many essential skills. Very helpful video.

My first panic attack was at an assembly hall around age of 12. This interview reminded me of the damage that is done when you are young. There is so much to work through, and when you realize the causes, it's a light bulb moment. Thank you Cliff and Debbie for your experience and knowledge....

Cliff you produce the best ex JW you tube videos out there IMO. You are a great listener, come over as less self serving than certain other activists with very well selected interviewees. Please keep the videos coming!

I plead the Fif!!! (Chappelle).....My brother, thanks for this interview. I start my therapy this coming Monday. I feel like between this community, my family that are not JW's, and now therapy, I'll finally be on a productive life path. There's hope! Thanks for all you do bro!

Thank you for this interview Fifth. This one really hit home.

Thanks, Debbie Glander and ExJW Fifth. Interesting guest, speaks of the changes in her upbringing when her father remarried. Her formative years were spent in a much healthier environment (non-JW). Then, her world changed into some weird alternate reality in JW-ville, which made very little sense to a developing brain. Oh my, I'm glad she went into the specialization trauma therapy. She lived normally, then experienced trauma in the cult. I see why so many ex-JWs become therapists of one sort or another. They lived the life and could see the difference between normal and twisted thinking.

I'm an ex JW and my wife was not raised religious at all. We were listening to Brene Brown on a road trip together. That is when she realized the crazy amounts of shame that I live with all the time. She said it was really eye opening.

I woke up a while ago. I was raised in, but not born in. I'm currently in school to do exactly this- help former cult members and others from high-control groups deal with the trauma from it. I still have a ways to go - seven years, but I did start a meet up group in my area for ex JWs in the Inland Empire (California). I experienced the "last birthday party/gift" at age 5.

Great video. My heart goes out to you Debbie and your sister, you must have felt so alone and really most therapists do not understand the high level of manipulation that goes on in Jehovah's Witnesses. There is a need for therapists like yourself with that understanding.

I really enjoyed this interview! Very relateable. It wasn't until I was listening to her speaking, that I realized rather than being insecure about my body growing up, perhaps it was shame and the modesty rants from the cult.

Thank you for this interview Fifth. My partner is an Ex-raised in JW and she suffered a lot of the same traumas that were talked about in this video. Thank you to both of you in this video for working tirelessly to help those like you that have been so sorely wounded by this dispicable organization.

Thank you Debbie, for your personal and professional experience. Really helps. And thank you Cliff, for never failing to deliver.

Cliff--- great interview! We need more on these types of subjects. Recovery is vital if people want to move on and move on well! ;) Great job and Debbie, thank you for sharing your story!

Wow. Another great Vlog, Cliff💕👍🏾😏. Thank you so much for sharing your story Debbie, and your resources. I can definitely relate to your story. I didn't know who the heck I was in that disorganization. I always felt labeled and marked as a survivor of sexual assault. The elders never consoled me but blamed me instead, even giving an irrelevant local needs talk about Dinah. The sordid indoctrination makes you internalize that complex of not being good enough. I had undergone years of therapy about it. Now I'm working on my anger. Boy, am I angry.🙄😏. Thanks again. You both are helping Soooooo many of us 💕.

Its sad for me to see young kids within JW going through anxiety, stress and depression through their middle and high school years and not to be able to tell them the real reason behind all that. I went trough that and until now as an adult I realized it was because of all the shame the religion puts on you..

Thank you Fifth and Debbie for this very insightful and informative interview!

Great interview. I was always running away, tuning out, or acting out. But eventually I was able to stand up for my own beliefs. Thank you Debbie for telling your story. Thank you Cliff for doing this interview!

Great interview, and I shared it with my daughter since she is becoming a therapist. So this will help her with being able to talk to those exiting the cult in her area!

This information is SO important. Great interview. Thank you both so much. It's taken me many years to work out why I felt so 'other' so fractured.

I was born in, baptized at 9, stayed in till I was 21 (I'm now 41). It's amazing how there are so many things that we bury or internalize even after we leave the org; thinking that somehow something is wrong with us rather than acknowledging or even being able to realize that our upbringing had anything to do with it. I loved that part where Debbie talked about sexuality shame. I have really suffered from this throughout the years but always internalized it, like it had something to do with me as a woman. I always thought I was just more of a giver when really I just felt shame when it came to really letting go and receiving pleasure. This religion did a number on us, didn't it? It robbed us of so many years and who we would have been at a very fundamental level, had we NOT been exposed to it. And, to think...I still thought it was "The Truth" for so many years even after I exited, that really pisses me the hell off!!! Anyways, bygones now I suppose. This video helped me to realize that I probably do need to talk to somebody about some of these hangups. Thanks again for all you do Cliff!!! XOXO

JW children are repeatedly traumatised in so many ways, it's tragic.

You can only become spiritual if you obey the GB, and then you need a therapist

Gracias Fifth, son joyas que nos metes en tu canal. Tu esfuerzo para traducirlo y hacerlo accesible, nos toca verdaderamente el corazón. Saludos cordiales

Thanks for the great video! So much damage is done to our minds when part of WT, it can take years to understand and unwind from it. Thankful we have more and more information like was presented in your video to help us move forward and heal. Keep up the good work!

Great interview. It is very encouraging listening to interview as this. Yes anxiety oh my God, so relatable. My heart still ache listening to especially the sexual abuse experiences.

This was yet another excellent interview! As a former born in I can 100% attest to what she stated. I'm glad she brought up Maslow's heirarcy of needs.... it's deliberate on the part of the cult to keep its members on the lower rungs....if a JW were to achieve self actualization they would run and not look back at the JW trauma based mind control cult.

Wow! Fifth, this is another great video with an awesome therapist who gave selflessly of her personal experiences in the organization. I have researched the JW group (organization) for almost 3 years now and it blows my mind how the Watchtower Leadership has false taught Bible doctrines to the point that you would hate the Bible and God if you did not know its true meanings. I am glade that I discovered the training of the WT Bible translation team lead by Fredrick Franz and others who had no theology training at all. Clearly you were introduced to a counterfeit and you now have a new chance to get the real story by simply reading the book. The bible teach freedom in the Gospels and Salvation to all as a gift through the work that Christ performed. There is nothing that we could do in 10 lives to gain God’s salvation on our own. But, somehow with all the WT’s messages, they made up a work based religious requirement to enslave so many. I have 6 close lovely members of my family stuck in the JW group. I lost two members of this family who refused to take blood transfusions while seriously ill. I have reached out in love only with provoking questions. I met the face of mind control after personal conversations with 4 of them about their religion. It was as if they did not trust me who they know well, but they trust a group whose false information is in PRINT, IN PRINT and can be referenced for accuracy. The many deceptions and lies the WT has change so often down through the years. Count it a blessing that you are free of this group but never think that they introduced you to God. He is not in the watchtower. Also, I have followed you through most if not all of your videos since you left the organization. Your work is a great labor of love and commitment to your fellow man (JWs, Ex-JWs & concerned love ones outside). Please know that I was truly blessed by your work and the video, “Cost of Doing Business” is a work of art by an artist that the world needs to hear. That joint has a professional’s touch. My study of the JW org was so enlighten by the many testimonies of ex-JWs who took the time to be concerned about others. This is what revealed the problems of the organization that outsiders could not know without your voices. Stay up! Stay at it! Never regret your life’s journey! Gary

I have been out more than 2 decades. And for 2 decades, the terms " spiritual abuse" has played at the edge of my consciousness. It's good to finally own it completely. Intentionally abusive or not, this organization is extremely spiritually abusive and does indeed twist every important relationship that you will ever have starting with your relationship with self. It's no wonder that many who leave become atheist. Once you wake up to how your abuser has mislead and damaged you, do you really want any part of what you think was the source of that pain? Tragic.

I guess experiencing shunning at that age as a born in has a weird impact too. I remember my father’s best friend was shunned and we were told not to go to him. It was confusing and as a 9 year old I would forget those instructions, it was weird seeing seat at the back seats, and leaving before all us leave. One day I met him at the local shop and say hi to him, he just smiled and left. This man used to tickle us, lift us up, playing with us, but all of a sudden he became this stranger. Then every year, we were getting to see this behaviour of shunning time and again, but it was never normal or something to just ignore.👊🏿

Excelent interview Fifth!!! Thank you to you and the therapist👌for all the good info I am going to find this books.

Going door to door was the worst for me also. I hated it more than anything else. Yes, we all have similar stories. Some of my grade school teachers seemed to think that I liked being a Jehovah witness. They would be very angry at me because I couldn't salute the flag. Couldn't celebrate any holidays. They would be downright abusive because I noticed how they treated me different than the other kids and all I wanted to do was blend in. I didn't want to be noticed. I wished all the time, that I could be invisible. It was horrible. Even other students noticed how I was treated. When I told my parents about it, they said I was standing up for Jehovah's organization. That bad things were done to the apostles and Jesus and that I had to stand firm in "the truth". I hated those answers because I knew that there was not going to be any help from anyone. I got picked on from other kids. They acted like the teacher. I became so withdrawn. Until junior high. Then things started to change. I started standing up for myself. Fights became a regular pass time. I loved it. Now, I started to get very aggressive. I developed a short fuse. If anyone said anything to me about being a witness, the fight was on. Nothing was said to my face, anymore. My reputation was not a good one. Being picked on was a thing of the past now. Instead of being hurt, I hurt other people. It felt good being on the other end of the pecking order. I finally grew out of that. I found out that everyone wasn't my enemy. I started to be able to control my anger. I had to. I couldn't go on like that. This cult messes people up. Children especialy. Children have terrible childhoods. The parents think they are doing great raising their children in the cult. They can't be children. They make them into magazine preacher salesmen.

Having these connections to others who've been through the controls of this cult has been a great help in overcoming the effects it has had on me definitely. I went through some counseling and my therapist gave me some wonderful tools to help myself. I remember just sitting down writing every thought and feeling that went through me when I was unhappy. I would put my thoughts in a story form and every time I nailed what the underlying cause of my problem was. Some people do this through art or music.

Excellent interview.

Oh my, it's like your telling my life story. For years I thought I was demonized. I just feel like crying not just myself but also all who have gone through this trauma.

Another great interview from you. Thank you. It was very validating.

I saw it with subtitles because I don't have good English, but I really congratulate a great interview. 💓

Thank you for another interesting and informative interview.

Thank you for such an informative interview. I will be buying some of the books Debbie suggested.

Hey Cliff, I really enjoyed this video, so much valuable information that is expressed so clearly by both parties. I specifically wanted to compliment you on your excellent interviewing skills, you are a wonderful and kind speaker with intelligent input. You make great videos, and I'm glad you were able to talk on Leah's show, which is how I found you and your channel. That was phenomenal exposure for your story and of the abuses and sufferings of JWs as a whole. Keep up your important work.

Thank you Debbie and ExJW Fifth, you're followed from France. We're fighting hard too against WT.

The interview is great.. She is on point Debbie, it always good to know a therapist on topic like religion.

Another great interview Fifth. Very informative. Thank you. Have a good day.

Thank you for letting her talk without adding your own commentary/experiences into the conversation.. Great interview!

Excellent interview, Cliff. I was able to relate to every single point she brought out, especially all the emotional, mental, spiritual damage that is being done to members and how important it is to find a way to process it and unravel it all once you leave because if you don’t it will keep coming back to haunt you for a very long time. I’m out for more than 20 years now but never did the work of processing, so decades later, having fully woken up, I’m dealing with a lot of “post traumatic religious disorder”. 😢

The SO called GB SHOULD BE ASHAMED OF THEMSELVES THEY RUIN FAMILIES

Uffff excelente !!! Cuantas cosas tan parecidas por favor ! También fui a terapia me ayudó mucho !! Gracias gracias 🙏!!!!!!

So timely! I was thinking about what I have been going through leaving this cult over the weekend and thought this is Spiritual Abuse but thought I was just making up a word. BUT it is a real thing!!! Thank you!

I grew up in this cult. Im free now. But thanks for this channel and what you share on here. ;) You are doing a public service and helping people and i respect you very much because of it. I admire that. Thanks! Keep it up. Peace! ✌️

Que intetesante, interesante, interesante. Fith te agradezco los subtitulos en español. Me da tristeza ver una vez mas como la organizacion causo tanto daño moral, fisico, espiritual y emocional a las hermanitas. Que pena. Continua porfavor con estas entrevistas. Porque es una manera muy practica de ayudar a despertar a las personas que estan presas en una secta. Mi amor y cariño a ti y a la hermana entrevistada.

Thank you. I finally understand myself. This story has been life changing for me.

Wow! Just wow! Thank you both for this interview. Agree so many layers and then you add on sexual abuse. Fading close to a year and stopped altogether in April. Hearing this interview and seeing pieces of myself. Thanks for the resources.

This is very helpful and informative! Thanks Fifth!

I think the way this woman's case was handled was just shameful. Why was she and her sister treated as if they had done something wrong? That was just insane or else abusive.

Another great interview.

Thanks fifth and Debbie for this video. I was really looking forward to this one! Thanks for sharing your info on books and your website Debbie. It will help a lot of ex JW to deal with themselves! 💋💋

First!! Sorry Fifth! Just sending the ❤to the channel! Edit: you wouldn't believe I'm a grown-@ss married woman with kids would you?!-

One of the best interviews you've done fifth... i felt so much of this deeply.

Can’t wait to listen to this. I’m going to pass it on to a new friend of mine.

I remember being excited to celebrate holidays and never told my family about it. My mom found out, but whatever.

Gracias por ponerlo en español 💜💕

Excellent spot on video!!

I think a lot of men like to become JWs so they don’t have to spend money on Christmas, Birthday, Valentines gifts. Lol. They like hearing their wives have to be in submission.

Thank you for this wonderful interview. I relate so much to this .

Una vez más Fifth, una entrevista magnifica y de nuevo muchísimas gracias por los subtitulos en español. Es evidente que eso requiere de mucho tiempo y dedicación y por ello GRACIAS¡¡¡¡ otros canales podria hacer lo mismo y eso nos llevaría a unir esfuerzos y ganarle terrenos a esta secta. Un cariñoso saludo

Thank you thank you for your hard work your doing your helping a lot of people

Outstanding interview! This is information that will help so many people who are suffering as a result of JW cult abuse. Thanks for sharing.

Hi, this is good stuff, congrats Can you or your guest please let me know more about any books she has written? I went through extra trauma from the cult.Take care and thanks.

Yes all so true at 5 I was sent to school with all our xmas decorations. Little did I know what it was all about still not over it I'm 62.

Great interview!

A really helpful and enlightening video interview - thank you

Great interview i can relate to this story.

I can not thank you enough for this interview. Just WOW. It’s a huge help for me now. I am delighted to know that people like Debbie are out there helping others out and I diligently jotted down titles of the recommended books to read in the weeks and months to come. The eyes of the mind can never be open wide enough.

Thank you

Thank you.

Thank you for this video. I had a regularly scheduled appt with my dr this morning and for the first time, I was more open about my thoughts, feelings, and plans. They pretty much freaked, so I'm on new meds, multiple follow-ups, referrals, etc. I hadn't wanted to make a big deal about it, but apparently having concrete plans in place needs to be addressed even if they aren't messy. I will be checking with Debbie Glander to see if she knows a therapist in NC that can understand how deep this goes.

Wow ! She described my life as a young JW to the T! Thank you for this interview !

I was one of the stubborn kids being raised as a JW. I refused to get rid of my worldly friends but felt guilty for keeping them. I still joined the school teams but would feel guilty when they would have a talk and say why would you spend all this time practicing for a worldly pursuit when you could spend time studying for Jehovah. I always felt like I was bad for pursuing what I wanted even though it was never against the bible. I was scared senseless from sex so much so that I stayed a virgin until age 30. I only lost it at 30 because that was a deadline I gave myself knowing that I could suffer from sexual disfunction if I didn't. I look back and cant believe I spent my childhood thinking that I was a bad person and would die if Armagghedon came and that God probably hated me because I liked everything they spoke against in the meetings.

I can really relate to this. I think my anxiety started from being raised a JW.

Excellent interview, one of the points I enjoyed was how people that haven't been a JW may ask what is the significance of not doing something when it comes to being of school age. It's the domino psychological effect, feeling like the odd person out, isolation having to explain to your peer group why you can't do something but so much at the same time you want to belong. A few years ago I was having a conversation with someone (non-witnesses) over our observations of a mutual friend that wanted to get reinstated. We both had spoken to her about how that may not be the best decision for her because of the rigid rules but yet she was "steadfast" in getting back in. It was in that conversation we described the "layers" of brainwashing, how are they connected and how they work with each other. That friend did later did get reinstated but I often wonder what are those thoughts she has she keeps repressed that she has not shared with anyone.

Man I wish she lived near me so I could make an appt!! Lol. I absolutely related to what she was saying about realizing that she had not developed coping skills, etc. from basically having formative years hijacked by a false belief system. This has been so hard for me to get over and I am still trying to retrain and recognize the false beliefs that were instilled so many years ago. Thank you for this interview!

11:20 For the JW apologists out there one has to ask “What would have happened if the parents HADN’T been JWs?” Well, they wouldn’t have gone to the elders in the first place which starts off the chain of events. The elders then wouldn’t have been able to make the decisions they did about how to deal with it. The parents would have gone to the police and from there the girls would have gotten proper help. The police who would put them through to therapists and the abusers would go to court. The abusers then wouldn’t be free to carry on and there wouldn’t be more victims in the future.

Hola, fui Tj. El sentimiento más fuerte que pase fue la vergüenza. Gracias.

Very helpful Thank you

Thank you this. Validation means so much. Especially after experiencing watchtower. Only an ex jw will understand.

For a second i thought this was Christine Baranski! Great video, thank you!

Wow! Thank you, thank you, thank you!

Amazing interview!

I would like to use Debbie's services but I live in New York.

Hola amigo fits , gracias por tus videos , God bless

Hit hard when you talk about need to acknowledge to ourself the damage done 😢

Awesome interview!

Thank you so much food at the right time! I searched Debbie's name on Facebook before finishing watching your video.

Exelente Fifth, que buen vídeo, una mujer muy linda Debbie, y que verdades lo del abuso espirirual . Una organización abusiva de máximo control. Recuerdo los temas de sexualidad, como se inmiscuian en las cosas íntimas del matrimonio y uno no se sentia libre ya que siempre estaba la culpa si hacias una cosa u otra ofenderias a Dios🙆.Lo más triste es que lo siguen haciendo, arruinando vidas. Gracias!!!!

EX JW was in it 27 years (Scared for life) left in 2013 (PTSD / HSP) No childhood can't handle relationships and adulthood ... Don't even ask (Male)

She’s speaking my truth.

This resonated with me.

This was a great convo

Muchas gracias por la información Cliff.

Great video Informative keep up the good work