Recovering after Mormonism with Dr. Steven Hassan | Ep. 1744

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Join world cult expert Steven Hassan as he shares almost 50 years of experience regarding how to heal and grow after a high demand religion or cult.
Resources:
freedomofmind.com/resource-li...
Steven's Books: freedomofmind.com/books/
---------------
If you value Steven's wisdom/insight/experience, and/or if you are in need of support dealing more effectively with high demand religions or cults, please check out these two workshops:
- Understanding Cults: A Foundational Course for Clinicians: courses.freedomofmind.com/cou...
- Recovery after Mormonism Workshop w/ Dr. John Dehlin:
courses.freedomofmind.com/cou...
---------------
Chapters:
00:00:00 Introduction
00:09:00 Discussing the term “cult”
00:23:30 Mind control (cult activity) as “Unspecified Dissociative Disorder”
00:25:00 Healthy groups give informed consent, healthy parenting
00:30:00 BITE Model
00:39:00 Jehovah’s Witness Information control
00:41:30 Mormon Information control
00:46:30 Psychological dependence makes information less effective
00:49:00 Thought control, thought stopping
00:53:00 No legitimate reason to leave
01:02:30 Emotion
01:06:00 Mormon emotional manipulation
01:10:30 Demand for purity = perfectionism
01:12:00 Legitimate fears (real threats) vs phobia (non-threats)
01:15:00 Identifying as our beliefs
01:18:30 Parenting model - kids need to mess up, modeling healing and growth
01:24:00 Influence Continuum - Individuals
01:50:00 Influence Continuum - Leadership
01:54:00 What Healthy Leaders do
01:57:00 What Mormon Leadership is like
02:01:00 Mormons and Jesus vs. Joseph Smith
02:04:00 For Mormons loving Jesus = obedience to authority
02:13:00 Influence Continuum - Organizations
02:14:45 Unhealthy Characteristics
02:23:30 Leadership Deception and the SEC
02:27:00 Reprogramming the mind after deep programming/conditioning
02:35:00 Real you vs. cult you, internal decisions vs external
02:36:45 Re-parenting technique
02:40:15 Ex-Mormons Learning to feel feelings, be in their bodies
02:43:30 Being “tied to the group” after your awakening
03:06:15 Treating Phobia indoctrination early
03:09:00 Getting quality sleep
03:10:00 “Fair gaming”
03:12:00 Delusions/Paranoia
03:13:00 Ethical deprogramming
03:14:00 Closing thoughts, resources
03:17:00 Insist that your therapist has some competency on high-demand religions
_________________________
ABOUT US:
Mormon Stories Podcast is the longest-running and most successful podcast in Mormonism - hosted by Dr. John Dehlin. At Mormon Stories we explore, celebrate, and challenge Mormon culture through in-depth stories told by members and former members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. We also occasionally interview scholars, authors, LDS apologists, and other professionals. Our overall mission is to: 1) Facilitate informed consent amongst LDS Church members, investigators, and non-members regarding Mormon history, doctrine, and theology, 2) Support Mormons (and members of other high-demand religions) who are experiencing a religious faith crisis, and 3) Promote healing, growth and community for those who choose to leave the LDS Church or other high demand religions.
Mormon Stories Podcast is a product of the Open Stories Foundation - a 501c3 non-profit dedicated to supporting Mormons in religious transition.
Help us continue to deliver quality content by becoming a donor today:
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26 июн 2024

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Комментарии : 413

@pithyparty6145 Год назад

This is such great information! I was married to a narcissist for 33 years. Very controlling and I felt like I was walking on eggshells most of the time. I had few friends and was isolated and managed. I'm 70 years old and 15 years after divorce, I'm finally finding my true self. It feels so good. Thank you for sharing your wisdom, Steven.

@winros Год назад

It's been eight years for me. I'm still walking on eggshells even though he's not here! I still struggle most every day even though I did find myself and who I am however, I do speak to him he lives in another state I know I am trauma bonding I need to get over it! I know what I'm doing and it is affecting me however I still keep on doing it by talking to him! I went to therapist that specialized in trauma however, she did not have a clue about narcissism! It was as though I was the therapist and have to explain everything to her!

@katbos4995 Год назад

@@winros That’s wild! A lot of trauma comes from narcissism. Many leaders of churches and CEOs of businesses are narcissists. That’s how they can step on people on the way to the top and not care. I read a lot of stories about people who met general authorities in the church, I was stunned by the amount of narcissistic attitudes they had towards us pee-ons.

@winros Год назад

@@katbos4995 at the end of the day, they are the most insecure people that you will ever meet! They put you down to make themselves look better or feel better about themselves! They are nothing but bullies! I don't Hold my tongue anymore! I will Nip it right in the bud when I feel someone is being disrespectful to me! I'm back having no contact with him I just can't do it anymore it's destroying me! I just hope I can keep my stance! You give people a little bit of power and it goes right to their heads! That is a tactic used while in the church! You give someone a little power and by doing that you'll be able to control more of that person! I have to look that up again! ✌🏼✌🏼✌🏼 Thank you for replying! ✌🏼

@onibioh 4 месяца назад

@@winrosplease for your own mental health, you need to cut off all relationship. Narcissists can still control you even from afar. I choose not to have any relationship with him and it has been for the better.

@daisymae4587 Год назад

These two episodes with Dr Hassan move immediately to the front of the line. This is some of the most important work ever done on MSP. It was super helpful to me to hear and see Dr Hassan demonstrate the tools he's developed and the techniques he's learned. He's beautiful, and I'm so grateful. Also, totally loved his moments when he audibly sounded the "alert" on some super red flags in LDS doctrine, leadership and culture. Thank you all!

@chrewtransformation Год назад

Agreed! Reading Lifting the Veil of Mormon Mind Control by Luna Lindsey is also SO HELPFUL when leaving the church! It puts everything Lipton and Hassan teach into the Mormon context. It was a GAME CHANGER for my wife and I when processing our faith transition

@christinabeck9316 Год назад

👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

@lisawyatt1671 Год назад

@@chrewtransformation 100% agree!

@kambreemiller1389 Год назад

This is one of my top 5 impactful episodes to date. I had a visceral reaction listening to the red flags. Having Dr. Hassan share that it's ok to leave for any reason- is a radical mind shift for me. For the past few years I've tried so hard to defend my choice to walk away and I cannot tell you how much peace I feel and how truly it resonated to hear that I can leave for any reason I want. Only a cult makes you feel otherwise. Thank you for this insightful and helpful episode!

@katbos4995 Год назад

We seem to feel the need to have had tons of studying before we feel we have a “right” to leave. That’s why it’s so disingenuous for the “profit” to call us lazy learners. We did a ton more research on our exits, than any other time in the cult. I snapped awake in 1998. I had to feel my face, the walls, the bed, and make a mental list of the things I knew to be true. My reality had been broken. What woke me? I was reading the book of Romans from start to finish, which the church to this day skips most of in Sunday school (I looked in my TBM mom’s SS manual). I went and got a masters in divinity MDiv. They told us there was a huge drop out rate when we started. We were all excited to hear the proofs of Jesus and the apostles. They waited until the 3rd year to tell us there were zero proofs. It’s all assumptions of who may have written which books. And there was zero proof of Jesus’ existence. I was attending the #2 online divinity university in the USA. I went through more loss at that point. I decided to only believe what I experienced when I died in childbirth: I met a Being of Light that accepted me unconditionally and was only concerned about how much I loved others and myself (I had a lot of self hate for being a closeted gay person 🏳️‍🌈). Being married in the temple, having straight sex, being very Molly Mormon didn’t turn me straight. The Being of Light I met wasn’t concerned about man-made religion. Only about Love ❤and kindness.

@buahburke9912 10 месяцев назад

Whoever "taught" you there was "zero proof of Jesus's existence" was critically mistaken. Apparently, that broke the protection you did have, allowing this 'being of light' (which Satan is known to masquerade as.) into your mind and soul.. Glad you broke free of Moroni LTD, but I pray you keep searching til you're truly free!

@spitimalamati Год назад

I read your book two decades ago. The most memorable thing that changed my life, was your anecdote of you meeting a man who was very kind to you, although you did not break free at that time. I have tried to treat cult members I encounter with as much kindness. Thank you!

@Indi_Waffle_Girl Год назад

I love this

@susanwilliams70 Год назад

Steven is basically talking about taking back your power to choose, decide & take action despite fears. I love it!

@debbieshrubb1222 Год назад

Im several years into deconstruction and actually need to speak more positively about my faith journey and how proud of myself for taking the steps I have.

@inChristalone1960 Год назад

Amen. It takes courage to ask real questions ,and actually stand for truth. ," Prove all things, hold fast that which is good." Thessalonians...

@debbieshrubb1222 Год назад

@@inChristalone1960 and what has that got to do with anything?

@derekkroshus9514 Год назад

@@inChristalone1960 pop M UlThe government uü by beynuugu😊nmjjnnymnnmnj hnjjuu Jim You pull m

@mr_ekshun Год назад

Whoever's doing the timestamps for these episodes is incredible!! It makes it easier to find my place if I lose it, but also gives an excellent summary of what's discussed if I want a quick recap for whatever reason, or maybe I want to reference a specific moment for myself or to show somebody else. It's perfect! 👌

@johnb5254 Год назад

John, please do a show about Mormonism and PTSD.

@lizzie9125 Год назад

Yes, the second half of this interview was reminding me so much of the book "The Body Keeps the Score," which focuses majorly on PTSD, because many of those techniques like: getting in touch with your body, desensitizing yourself to triggers, rewriting a traumatic memory, and taking back your power are discussed in the book.

@NatalieKayeGunn Год назад

Love this suggestion.

@chrissearer1896 Год назад

CPTSD, since it starts in childhood. Complex PTSD.

@levistrauss8310 Год назад

Yes, this is an excellent suggestion. A lot of LDS (Mormons) are dealing with PTSD or a form of it after leaving it. @mormonstories

@katbos4995 Год назад

I literally will have panic attacks just hearing the words OBEY or THE GOSPEL.

@neemk1632 Год назад

He honestly has the best heart - it literally radiates when he speaks! Thank you Dr Hassan :)

@mormonstories Год назад

We agree!

@ludmilamaiolini6811 7 месяцев назад

He really does. He has a very gentle and humble energy

@maxcrapo1529 Год назад

I was fortunate early on to recognize this "locus of control" issue. It resonated deeply with me that the individual Mormon is unable to say, "I forgive myself, and I recognize this as a learning experience." Mormon theology states,"Bishops are Judges in Israel" and by implication, we must confess our sins to them. Then they get to decide whether you are truly penitent, completely hijacking our locus of control.

@mylifewithmarmalade4624 Год назад

So glad Dr Hassan was able to come to Utah! Sorry our high desert air was trying to choke him. I hope he got some hot tea and his voice holds through the weekend!

@amyferrill770 Год назад

I went through intensive counseling with Bob & Judy Pardon at Meadowhaven. Dr Hassan was quoted often by them. They literally saved my life and our marriage. Heavy handed churches, not just Mormons, have destroyed lives for years. We had a young lady raised in a polygamist group and it was so cool to see her evolve and heal. Highly recommended!

@benjamingardea4511 Год назад

I love that Dr Hassan challenged us a bit on letting go and moving on. It’s time for me. It’s also tough because many of us are still immersed in the religion and culture. There’s no way to fully leave it behind.

@katbos4995 Год назад

It’s scary, but there’s a lot of peace on the other side.

@marthaaliceallen8711 Год назад

Brilliant program. He is raw, and honest and charming and funny and so, so smart. Can't wait for episode 2. And, Samantha: You are so tuned in!!! Great questions. Very clear, insightful observations. Admire you very much!! John...great show. Thanks

@mormonstories Год назад

Glad you enjoyed it!

@mintyfreshest Год назад

something I (as a never-mormon) never thought about the mormon temple ceremony's lack of informed consent is that you're not only pressured to complete the ceremony because your family is waiting for you in the celestial room and they all expect you to go through with it, but you're also pressured to complete the ceremony because it's a requirement for something *else* in your life that you've *also already* promised to do, either go on a mission or get married. So if you're sitting in the temple ceremony and getting bad vibes and feeling like you want to leave, even if you don't necessarily care about disappointing people for not going through with the ceremony, you're still pressured to complete it because if you don't you'll either also have to cancel the mission you already committed to going on, or cancel your mormon temple marriage and risk losing your fiance all together. So whether intentional or not, the timing of the endowment ceremony does a lot to contribute to the B in the bite model.

@katbos4995 Год назад

Very well said!

@katbos4995 Год назад

1986 temple experience: We were stationed in West Germany before communist East Germany’s Wall fell. My parents flew to West Germany to be with us (my husband (22), me (20), and our 24 month old and 4 month old). We drove to the Switzerland temple, the nearest to our home. I was excited! After the naked washing & anointing (older lady touching & blessing my body with her finger in certain areas) I figured it couldn’t get worse. It did. When they told me I had to vow to kill myself by imitating myself slitting my throat, cutting my heart out, and slicing across my abdomen to allow my bowels to disembowel, I thought of where I dropped off my two babies. Could I run and find them, grab them and run out, before they caught me and took me to a sterile room with an alter and drain hole in the floor (to clean up the blood)? I quickly realized we had gone through a maze of halls and down an elevator. I had no idea where my kids were or where I was. Even though I did not grow up watching horror movies, I knew that to stay safe and possibly get out alive, my best bet was to play along like I believed. If I resisted, I might end up “missing.” There was no home internet or social media to prepare me for the temple. The temple prep class did not tell me I had to promise suicide if I “revealed what went on in the temple this day.” It was 100% non-consent. When the endowment session was over, I insisted they take me to my kids immediately. When I saw the door at the end of a hallway that said “Nursery,” I ran to it. I could hear my kids both screaming from the hallway. The older ladies dressed in white had put both my babies in white, wool onesies with legs. I ripped both out of those outfits. Their skin was swollen and beat red where the outfits had contact with their skin. They’re both allergic to heat, the outfits were causing them to overheat. I redressed them in the clothes I brought them in and left. That was ~ 40 years ago. I’m nauseous and shaking just trying this. Ya, it was very traumatic. --- Cupping hand still in the ceremony: I went through the Mormon/LDS/The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints temple Pre-1990 when you acted out the 3 blood-death oaths: slitting my throat, cutting my heart out, and thumb across my abdomen cutting my bowels out and cupping my other hand as if holding my bowels. Nowadays, the only thing left of that is the cupped hand, which people nowadays don’t know that’s a leftover from holding your own bowels in your hand after you’ve cut open your abdomen if you “tell what happens this day, in this temple.”

@mercuryshadow5452 10 месяцев назад

Holy crud

@christinesaburi3011 8 месяцев назад

What? They’ve been teaching me the last 3 weeks and I asked them about this but they never mentioned this, I am freaking out, they keep texting me. They imposed on me that my bf had to move out before I could get baptized. Which is in 10 days. They made me stop drinking alcohol, coffee, tea and other stuff, which I did but they say I can’t get baptized unless I kick my bf out.

@christinesaburi3011 8 месяцев назад

@@katbos4995thank you for sharing, I’m officially traumatized

@ksparks689 Год назад

Fantastic interviews with Dr Hassan. I appreciate Samantha’s insights very much too, they added to the discuss. That is for this one!

@reddish22 Год назад

Dr. Hassan's kindness and perspective was incredible to hear. I hope to someday have his clarity and charity for those around me. His points (a few times) about former members stopping to define themselves by the fake group narrative was SO needed for me right now. On his points about talking to your younger self, I've heard that described as "inner child" work. When I was first leaving the Church and wracking my self with guilt trying to sort everything out, I tried one time and it was a truly transformative experience. Thank you for this interview MSP team!

@overatourhouse4026 Год назад

This has been so insightful and helpful. I once loved this church too, John, but when we step back, there’s no way to ignore the control , damage and meanness that far outweigh the good. I love the directness of Dr Hassan and Sam both. I love the work John does but learning how long your deconstruction has taken you - it’s so sad😢. (The garment wearing etc) I hope you can dig in to these wonderful resources and move forward in a positive and empowering way ❤ There is so much more meaning in life beyond Mormonism.

@freedomscry1 Год назад

Thank Dr Hassan, Dr Dehlin and Samantha so much 😊

@ryanhollist3950 Год назад

When I was trying to reconcile my faith in the LDS church with my sexuality as a gay man, I started to realize I was having to cultivate a dissociative disorder to be able to attend church meetings. That was a major point where I realized such reconciliation was not possible and I really needed to properly leave.

@katbos4995 Год назад

Here’s my story as a gay female who left the church: We seem to feel the need to have had tons of studying before we feel we have a “right” to leave. That’s why it’s so disingenuous for the “profit” to call us lazy learners. We did a ton more research on our exits, than any other time in the cult. I snapped awake in 1998. I had to feel my face, the walls, the bed, and make a mental list of the things I knew to be true. My reality had been broken. What woke me? I was reading the book of Romans from start to finish, which the church to this day skips most of in Sunday school (I looked in my TBM mom’s SS manual). I went and got a masters in divinity MDiv. They told us there was a huge drop out rate when we started. We were all excited to hear the proofs of Jesus and the apostles. They waited until the 3rd year to tell us there were zero proofs. It’s all assumptions of who may have written which books. And there was zero proof of Jesus’ existence. I was attending the #2 online divinity university in the USA. I went through more loss at that point. I decided to only believe what I experienced when I died in childbirth: I met a Being of Light that accepted me unconditionally and was only concerned about how much I loved others and myself (I had a lot of self hate for being a closeted gay person 🏳️‍🌈). Being married in the temple, having straight sex, being very Molly Mormon didn’t turn me straight. The Being of Light I met wasn’t concerned about man-made religion. Only about Love ❤and kindness.

@oooo000oooo 10 месяцев назад

It's so primitive how the church treats gay people... And then the parents make them go to church anyways and be treated differently.... It's weird and outdated. And then the women who are tricked in to marrying gay men because the gay men are trying to pretend they aren't gay. It's bizarre and literally medieval.

@endlesseverfall3176 9 месяцев назад

If you decided to have a relationship with the same gender, and commit fornication, you are free to do so. It's hard to be attending the church, knowing that those deeds is the happiness (temporarily) for those who engaged in it. This makes people that joined the church stay away from those commandments which make them feel unworthy, and most of them don't want to change those sinful desires. But the Lord said, "Not everyone who said, Lord, Lord...." will be saved, but only those who obey his commandments. And that's one of the things that ticked off the majority of the members who wants to fulfill their carnal desires. Being gay, lesbian or bi tendencies is not a sin, it's what you do with how you feel that leads to sinning is wrong. The Lord understands and accept our weaknesses, Satan wants those people to stay away from the truth, so he could fill in the void. The battle to get a hold and control of our thoughts, appetites and desires are real. If we don't want to follow the Savior, we will be our own god, following the natural man. The world wants us to indulged in those impulses, but in the end, we will be the one suffering from it, if we don't change our hearts and repent of the wrong things we do. Satan lulls everyone really.

@ryanhollist3950 9 месяцев назад

@@endlesseverfall3176 I've had enough of your ilk's condescension. You and the LDS leadership have continually shown that you are pridefully ignorant about what you speak of on this matter. If your God exists, then He is either cruel and/or impotent, or you will have much to answer for because of the tremendous suffering you cause and perpetuate on the innocent.

@endlesseverfall3176 9 месяцев назад

@@ryanhollist3950 I'm not here to condemn you, but to give you insights about the domino effects of each choices we make. I hope you find peace and resolve sooner. If the church you are seeking will accept the behavior against God's commandments, then, it's exactly where the devil wants you to be trapped in, to yield to the enticing's of worldly gratifications, without feeling remorse consequences of wrong choices. Galatians 5: 16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. 17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. 18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law. 19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, 23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. 24 And they that are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. 25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. 26 Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.

@smallmeadow1 Год назад

I hope he comes back and speaks more about these points and how he has worked with people.

@SR-bw3sc Год назад

Agreeeee. Much needed for our current times. Each individual needs to be encouraged to: question all things, investigate, 🔎 and to be on lookout for "red flags" (Dr. S. Hassan's B.I.T.E. Model), continue to search for truth.

@marionjohnson8596 Год назад

Hearing the comment that it’s ok to say that you’re leaving the church because it doesn’t make you happy and causes you problems is a HUGE revelation to me. It really is that simple, and the fact that saying that to your member friends and family will get you thoroughly rejected, pitied, and distrusted is further evidence that something is really, really wrong with the LDS mindset.

@endlesseverfall3176 9 месяцев назад

It's not the gospel teachings, it's the members way of thinking and character. If you read the various manuals for studying from the church you will see that it teaches you to be a responsible good christian. It's the mindset of these members being self righteous.

@Moore2luv2680 4 месяца назад

My SIL told me she didn’t know me at all and the friend she thought she had, died the day I told her I’m leaving the church. Seriously made me feel like I couldn’t share how I felt. My thoughts and feelings are not valid unless I’m LDS I GUESS.

@imkindofabigdeal4308 2 месяца назад

@@endlesseverfall3176 It IS the specific gospel teachings that lead to much of the cultural baggage that does not make people happy and causes problems.

@heathermcdougall8023 17 дней назад

@@imkindofabigdeal4308 They are NOT "gospel teachings" and those of us who have recovered from Mormonism must stop using thier language. They are merely Mormon ideas, or Mormon theology or better, Mormon dogma. They are definitely NOT "gospel" teachings - far from it. Once they have you brainwashed and fearful, they then find thier way easily into your wallet.

@penzb7406 Год назад

John when you were talking about the music being a big part of your testimony, it made me think back to before I left the church. I was the first counsellor in primary and when we had the stake primary training there was a HUGE emphasis on music time. Breaks my heart thinking about the primary children now and how much I miss being with them.

@nomollyshere Год назад

I’ve just recently left and I was in nursery & playing piano in primary. I miss those babies so much😢💔if it wasn’t for them then I would have left years ago. It’s still hard.

@rachelleanonymous2740 Год назад

"Fundamentally we are emotional beings that rationalize more than thinking beings who have emotions." 🤯 YES!!! FINALLY!!!! THANK YOU!!! thank you for vocalizing what I've felt in my soul since I was a child. I was always taught(/berated) this backwards. I can't put into words how understood this makes me feel right now. ❤

@elainechester4756 Год назад

This has been such a healing experience watching these episodes. I am so grateful for Mormon Stories and for Dr Hassan and his wisdom. 💜

@lovebaileymarin Год назад

For me, the exercise of going back in your mind and remaking memories has been singularly helpful. As far as I know, in some shamanic traditions it is called “soul retrieval,” the being idea that parts of us are stuck in the trauma or stuck underneath the false self the cult created, we go back and retrieve ourselves.

@pattykake7195 Год назад

Reconstruct as quickly and cleanly as possible…don’t paddle around in the swill of mormoncorp…a beautiful life awaits….❤‍🔥✨❤‍🔥

@SouthernIdaho Год назад

Well put! Totally agree. True happiness begins after Mormonism!

@pattykake7195 Год назад

@@SouthernIdaho Absolutely…enjoy every day…👌🏽

@nunyabiznass2023 5 месяцев назад

Can someone make a meme of Steven going "WARNING WARNING WARNING!!!" LOL!!! In all seriousness, Dr. Hassan's work is mind-blowing! I've shared this with my own therapists over the years and had fantastic conversations about it. I wish I could say the same for my family. With my mother, she doesn't even believe in "cognitive dissonance." I told her about cognitive dissonance and she actually told me she didn't believe in it. She assumes I'm going to poison her against the Mormon church. I can't tell her anything about psychology and that was my minor in college! Thank you, Dr. Hassan, for sharing this with us all and helping others to critically think about groups and institutions - even politics. I wish I had seen this earlier, I would have loved to meet you in person, shake your hand, and get your autograph. I was a Mormon for 28 years. It took me about a year and a half to stop wearing my garments. I believe that Dr. Hassan is correct. Everyone's story is different. Maybe it took you, John, 13 years to break a habit. However, for others, it could take less time. Everyone's process of leaving things behind is different. And that's not to say it's invalid if you don't do it one way vs another! I mean when I made the decision to stop wearing my garments I stopped wearing the top first. Then I wore regular underwear under my garment bottoms. Then it became more of a comfort thing - I didn't like my thighs rubbing when I walked so I bought myself a slip to wear and stopped wearing my garments. But that was breaking a habit. Did I believe I was going to be unsafe or harmed or more susceptible to sin without my garments? For probably about 5-9 months, yes I did. After that, it really was a comfort thing. I also wanted to point out that I noticed the different cultural speech between John and Dr. Hassan. It was quite funny, actually! I'm originally from Massachusetts so I'm very aware of the blunt nature of how we talk. It's made many a Utahn think I was upset. It's just the way we talk in New England. We're very direct. 🤓 We're not angry, we just say it like it is. I could see a few times when it might have come across to John as anger or irritation. I think there was a bit of confusion as to getting a message across. I'm glad someone else was available to work almost as a mediator at times. John definitely wanted to present something a specific way, though it seemed like that wasn't fleshed out very well to everyone involved. 🤷‍♀ I could be misreading the body language. It came across as frustrating at times that you couldn't read each other's minds. Near the end (2:45:00), Dr. Hassan brings up a form of therapeutic treatment known as the Ideal Parent Figure (IPFP) visualization protocol. It was originally developed by Dr. Daniel P. Brown as a guided imagery exercise to help adults explore and create an image of the ideal parental figure. The exercise is based on the idea that a person's early experiences with their parents or caregivers can have a significant impact on their emotional and psychological development and that creating an idealized version of a parent figure can help promote feelings of security, support, and emotional regulation. I've actually been seeing a therapist to change the way I view or respond to traumatic events. Accelerated Resolution Therapy and Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing (EMDR) therapy both use this exercise in a way. Using exercises like these can lead to memory reconsolidation (MR) which is basically the brain's mechanism behind adding new information to something we've already learned, like a new expectation from formerly triggering situations. Overall, a fantastic 2 days of interviews and discussion!

@huskyboi9331 Год назад

My dad left the church and wrote a book about it (Beyond Mormonism- James Spencer) In 1984. Made 1:57 high school in Idaho Falls pretty tricky for me. We did Saints Alive every year with the Tanners and Deckers. Is that where Thrive started? My family plunged into evangelicalism. Which in some ways is worse than Mormonism. No special revelations. Nothing can change for LGBT loved ones. I’ve become obsessed with Mormon Stories. It’s helping me navigate my path out of dogmatism. My dad gave 40 years to helping LDS exit the church. It was a good work and a very important part of my life. It wasn’t always safe traveling around idaho and Utah preaching against the church. Again love John and Mormon Stories so much.

@mormonstories Год назад

❤️🙏

@bknecht2491 10 месяцев назад

I was a "Molly Mormon" until I was 37. I did everything I was "supposed" to, Then my husband found God in Taoism ☯️..... I've spent the past 6 years deconstructing, from apologist to non believing active to inactive, but nothing has clicked to why I feel and think the way I do like this episode. It was like a light bulb 💡. I watched it about a month ago and since then, things finally make sense. Thank you ❤

@t.j._edits9669 10 месяцев назад

This gives me the leeway to practice more self compassion when it comes to my residual cognitive dissonance. I’ll be patient with the recovery process. Thanks Doctor 🙏

@bethumlauf6999 Год назад

Wow ~ these two episodes are intellectual dynamite! Dr. Hassan is a beautiful, kind spirit with so much knowledge. ❤

@smallmeadow1 Год назад

Purpose driven recovery is what it sounds like. Purpose driven life in the long run according to one's own discovery.

@philbrooks5979 Год назад

I notice that the typical Mormon apologist response when told that Mormonism is a cult, is the automatic reply that "all religions are cults", ignoring that Mormonism is on the very end of the spectrum.

@petrisalonen4893 Год назад

Mormonism apologetics are the most dishonest people you'll ever find. Last night I read about two LDS egyptologists "proving" Book of Abraham to be correct. It was dishonesty beyond belief. They had "found" evidence that in ancient Egypt they truly did practice human sacrifice. Book of Abraham 1:8 says: "Now, at this time it was the custom of the priest of Pharaoh, the king of Egypt, to offer up upon the altar which was built in the land of Chaldea, for the offering unto these strange gods, men, women, and children". Offerings to gods with sacrifice of men, women, and children on an altar have never been found to have happened! Surely knowing that, these two clever egyptologists gave as "proof" only different punishments authorized by some Pharaohs. And of course the conclusion then was this: "Yes, Book of Abraham gave a correct description of human sacrifices in ancient Egypt". Dishonest people, scholars, apologetics! All they quoted were some laws descriptions punishment for crimes, including death penalty in the most serious cases, nothing surprising at all in other words, but they twisted that to mean the same as HUMAN SACRIFICES on an altar 🤥. Made me think and wonder, are they being paid to produce this kind of "apologetics" by the LDS Church? As to keep it's members satisfied and not to leave and stop giving tithings to the Church?

@letahamilton Год назад

Around the 2hr20 mark… I can’t be exact because I was listening on my drive from Seattle to Portland, Steve Hassan mentioned Harvey Cox. I go to church with his son. His wife is ex-Mormon. It’s a Unitarian church. It was a full circle moment for me! 💙💙💙💙

@christineaddison6375 4 месяца назад

So insightful. I was married to a nonpracticing LDS/Morman for 17 years. I loved his family and they were so kind and supportive. They never pressured me or my kids from a previous marriage to convert. I cherish the years of being a part of their family. That being said, I still to this day find the culture fascinating as I do other religions. Being an atheist I find all religions wonderful and interesting from a sociological perspective.

@autumn5852 3 месяца назад

Yes, I think people can still behave well and be loving, kind and compassionate within these cults because as Steven mentioned, it depends on how an individual responds to the cult, meaning, not all people will be as eager, for example, to be the best member they can be etc. and not all people will believe all that they’re being taught to believe.

@mikalin9286 Год назад

This episode is amazing, I’m on my way to go help and friend and these two episodes really are driving home the exact reason I’m about to drive 5 hours one way to do what I can for someone I love. Thank you for the motivation.

@Seeker_Angel Год назад

This conversation is one which I can not turn away from! I love the honesty of the conversation and I find so much familiarity in the way that you have expressed yourselves. The gentle loving, kindness of the discussion is honesty one of the greatest discussions which the podcast has had, I love them all, however, this one is so impactful!! Thank you!!

@user-dw3fb2cw6c 2 месяца назад

Listen to moore of dr Steven Hassan, such a humble and sharpe man! Thank you morminstories for bring in real experts and let them expande our minds

@untidyfan Год назад

Thank you for having Dr. Hassan on your podcast! It was my first time listening to Mormon Stories and found the hosts very insightful with thoughtful questions and observations. Dr. Hassan was enlightening as always.

@missylee3022 Год назад

I recently quit going to a healthy church simply because my son and I aren't morning people and it's a far drive. And no one gave a shit. Everyone still talks to me and if we were to drop in they'd be happy to see us and not give me shit like I get when I have to go to the high demand church I grew up in.

@SR-bw3sc Год назад

NeverMo here; excellent & appropriate topic for our current times.

@prudentreality 5 месяцев назад

I cannot tell you how thankful I am for this guest, and for this discussion. This is SO helpful to me! I’ve listened to so many podcasts, read lots of materials, and gone down so many rabbit holes to find exactly what this episode is brimming with: clearly presented and distilled concepts to equip me on how to thoughtfully and reasonably weigh a person or group for myself. As a “recovering (conservative) evangelical”, this is so rich and SO PRACTICAL for my journey. Thank you Dr.Hassan, and THANK YOU MSP for this interview. Years of digging are coming together with this single episode!! It’s a huge relief.

@winros Год назад

X Pentecostal! One time I burnt my finger on the stove and my aunt asked did I get burned, I said yes! She replied back to me by saying well, if that burnt can you imagine how hell will be!? So many stories of fear had been planted in my head!

@pokemonfanthings4444 Год назад

I listened to this before bed last night and I had a bizarre dream. Basically you came to my college dorm (Ive been out of college for years) and you evaluated my living situation. You determined that my friends and I were in a cult of our own because we worshipped my cat. I remember I was really defensive and at one point insisting that he wasn’t because we neg him and EVERYONE worships their cat anyway

@MartineReed Год назад

Neg him? Please explain this choice of words.

@christinecarpenter7573 11 месяцев назад

@@MartineReedmaybe he means neglect?

@zooflute 6 месяцев назад

To neg is to give back handed compliments

@Sarah-sc9ev Год назад

This episode has been so helpful for me. It feels like pieces of a puzzle that I had unknowingly missed are now available to me.

@mormonstories Год назад

I'm so glad!

@parkviewmo Год назад

When I heard this model, I immediately thought about my graduate program with many male Skinner psychologists. I grew up among people who practiced fundamentalist Christianity. My family's church was far less controlling, yet I was sent to hell regularly. I am still working through that. I am 70.

@janetstephens9563 3 месяца назад

I’m 68, 30 years out. It’s not that easy - only 1 year to recover? I still struggle. There are so many things I loved and miss to this day. Dr. Hassan doesn’t really seem to understand, and I really dislike his analogy about “intercourse with a woman”. This episode made me feel so awful. I cried for hours.

@ManokJanik 7 месяцев назад

I wish I have seen this episode a lot earlier, it would have helped me progress a lot quicker in my journey! I am not ex Mormon but there are important points that can help me in my experience. Thank you so much John for all the you do, it extends beyond the Mormon community.

@rachelramonedonlan8697 12 дней назад

In the middle of Cult of trump on audio right now. It’s really helping me to understand what’s happening around me.

@kasspriscilla9350 Год назад

With abused women of narcissist abuse it's called fog fear obligation and guilt coming out of this kind of relationship is freedom but painful because of the cognitive distance again thank you

@roxy5154 Год назад

That was nothing short of excellent! Thank you all so very much for your critical analysis of the subject at hand.

@lauraalmiron2749 Год назад

About “stay away from apostates “ in our case; they even alienated us much earlier the time we left; just because we were showing signs of having free mind. So, they started spying on us; even family members saying lies about us. It is horrible.

@katbos4995 Год назад

I stopped having my daughter attend YW at 12 because she was getting depressed, she wanted to be a business woman, and they told her she had to be only a wife & mom. The church members shunned me when they saw me in public or at church. She had her own business at 12, she’s now 39 and extremely successful, including having 3 kids and a husband.

@beckyburnett2246 Год назад

This is really, really good. I hope that people really evaluate this chart within their own experiences.

@heatherwall9571 10 месяцев назад

I was married to a narc for 23yrs so I know all about manipulation. Coercion control and combative behaviour when you decide to end the toxic bond you have….they remain “squeaky clean” in regards to their extended family…while you will always be the villain for walking away from their toxicity they projected at you, behind closed doors 🙏💗🙏

@matty7dream1 Год назад

Thank you that was fantastic. I bought the book. I'm 58 years old but I can still grab a bit of real life if I try! You know what I mean.

@lisawyatt1671 Год назад

Conscious Deprogramming is vital. My immediate family stopped attending when I was 13. (presently 60) I could not figure out why the dynamics in my family never felt right. The family unity puzzle never seemed to come together. After having a personal spiritual awakening after a deep dark dive into the history of the church, catapulted by dishonesty and pain from family behaviors, (same behaviors of J Smith)I realized my family left the church and lived their new life just like the programmed Mormon just with a different "life doctrine." You cannot just leave the church. I have had to separate myself from my family in order to be an individual. It felt like when I was questioning and leaving the church. It was much harder to "leave" my family than it was to leave Mormonism. Deprogramming is 100% necessary. Did I mention the trail of frequency that has been passed down through the generations apparently I am 6th generation from Joseph Smith himself.

@ritae5316 2 месяца назад

Someone probably said this already, but what about putting your doubts on a shelf? Totally thought stopping.... Former Jehovah's Witness, I have been out for 20 or so years, and discovered Steven about a decade ago. I love your work, sir.

@christinaheath3442 Год назад

Yes, thank you so much Dr. Hassan. "re-living" moments of the past where we visualize what we would do with the knowledge and clarity we have now TOTALLY helps. It empowers the mind and creates a beautiful propulsion into the bright future of increased strength and empowerment. I, too, have practiced this method of healing my mind and it's very effective and I've even talk to my subconscious mind and apologize for the past hurts and give my subconscious mind reassurance that had I known better at the time I would have done better. It's like a hug for myself in the healing process.

@PrometheanRising 8 месяцев назад

Setting aside for a moment whether Ayn Rand had a cult, that was a gross mischaracterization of her idea of selfishness. I have known hundreds of people over the years who claimed to be adherents of her philosophy, some of whom knew her, and represent her ideas professionally, and none of them would agree that she advocated for taking things from others because you desire them, or even taking from others without regard for their consent. Setting up a strawman by implying that Rand held a conventional view of what is, and is not, selfish is not honest.

@kristineolsen477 Год назад

Great podcast. Thank you. The Blessing of a Skinned Knee is one of my top 2 parenting books of all time. Many thanks to all three of you. Your friend Kristine

@haroldwhite5761 11 месяцев назад

This episode is pure gold. As a member of the 'least parented generation' I am so grateful to see podcasts like this happening and seen. It's not called the 20/20s for nothing. Wouldn't it be wonderful if Dr. Hassan's course was taught at every Utah county's Health and Human Services?

@MerkieAE Год назад

thank you for the chapters!

@MrSkypilot69 Год назад

He's a brilliant thinker, I would love to have a beer or two with him on Mormon grounds.

@mercuryshadow5452 10 месяцев назад

I realize I’m basically talking into the void by commenting on a 5 month old video, but I really wish I had the money to sit down and discuss some of these topics in depth with Dr. Hassan. I’m a trans exmo and exvangelical and I’m finding stuff like this very therapeutic bc Parasocial bonding is *real*, but also it’s never going to take the place of an actual back and forth with a trusted expert. I’ve had a few traumatic experiences with therapists plus a few useless ones, so I’m taking a break from therapy to try to sort stuff out independently, but I’m looking forward to getting to have the kind of discussions I picture again someday.

@kkheflin3 Год назад

When we left the church in 1992 after 38 years with our three young children we eventually sought out therapy. Rejected by his family when he had converted to the church at age 16 and then rejected by mine when we left we felt as if we were totally adrift. No anchors. No safe place to land. The therapist was genuinely confused. She said, "I don't get it. If you don't like the religion you belong to you just leave! I was raised a Presbyterian but am now a Lutheran. It suits me much better." This was not an isolated incident. People don't "get it" unless they have been in a high demand/cult religion all their lives. It's not as simple as just picking a "new church." It's a lifetime of being lied to, deceived, etc. It takes years. It took me at least ten to get comfortable enough to even be able to address all the issues I had from growing up in the church. There is not a quick fix. But in the end it is worth it to be your authentic self.

@sc766 Год назад

Thank you Dr.Hassan for sharing you story as well as your wisdom, expertise and advice. Super helpful! Samantha- love your input, helpful info/ observations and calm presence! Thank you Sam and MS for this great episode!

@kkeiter Год назад

This guy is great

@phishlipsable Год назад

you gotta read, baby, read you gotta read, baby, read the more you read the more you know KNOWLEDGE IS POWER POWER IS FREEDOM AND I WANT IT !!!!!!!

@miguelibanez6079 Год назад

The Mormon church hits all the red flags for me 🤷🏻

@mandyf9341 Год назад

Absolutely fascinating 👏 New subscriber from UK 🇬🇧 Got a lot of back episodes to watch 😊

@ceb591 Год назад

Hello newbie, some of the my favourite interviews are the Maven ones.

@mandyf9341 Год назад

@@ceb591 Thank you 😊 I will take a look, Mandy 🥰

@HallowedForever Год назад

The most helpful episode that I have watched so far (probably 100+). Such simple, powerful and extremely transformative ideas.

@tailee123 Год назад

Wow. What a powerful insightful video. Thank you for bringing someone from the outside with expert knowledge. Steven Hassan is a beautiful person and I loved his thought processes and insights.

@brasguven742 Год назад

I appreciated this episode. Thanks to all.

@marialuzgomez6494 Год назад

Steve with all respect loving your work. There is no need to proof to anyone in this world who you are. Those of us who understand you we are the ones that matter. If those who critique you have their own understanding.

@McQuizzical Месяц назад

Excellent guest. Thank you

@lindasherman8036 3 месяца назад

Dr. Steven Hassan radiates goodness and wisdom. THANKYOU.

@livehealthyfinishstrong 8 месяцев назад

Dr Hassan mentioned a few times over 3 episodes, that a big part of his conversion to the Moonies was sex. He believed that he might find love/sex with one of the 3 young women that recruited him. I think this is a very important concept. I grew up in Seventh-Day Adventism and I know as I became teenager with hormones pumping, I was motivated to become more serious about that church when I thought it would make me more appealing to teenage SDA girls. At about age 20 I left the SDAs upon learning their female prophet (Ellen G White) plagiarized much of what she wrote. After leaving SDAism I became a Baptist and looking back, I was motivated to adopt the Baptist faith, doctrines and testimony, to some degree to fit into that community and especially to be attractive to young Baptist women.

@tonyarodgers2885 Год назад

This has been such a powerful message. I feel all the feels and really appreciate Steve. I’m going to buy your book. Thanks for sharing your story and helping others to break mind control.

@pamelacook3700 2 месяца назад

My mother was a narcissist and was VERY controlling and mean. Even after I was a married woman she would try to control MY HOME, how I raised MY CHILDREN. She even picked my children up from school once and took them camping on EASTER weekend WITHOUT my permission! She would call my home at 6 am on Christmas morning to make sure "Santa" came to see my kids and that we were awake having Christmas. She would then insist we come to her house as soon as we were done opening gifts. I would say she ruined my marriage to my kids father but she did that before we were even married. One time she came to my house while I was at work and cleaned out my closet because she didn't like my clothes. I am 62 years old now she is dead and I did NOT go to her when she was dying. My mother shook hands with the devil 30 seconds after her last breath!!! She used to tell me she wanted to kill me because she didn't want to leave this world with me in it! I could write a book on my childhood that would put mommy dearest to shame!

@marionjohnson8596 Год назад

Love the idea of Dr. Hassan coming back to SLC and doing a training for coaches and therapists! 👍👏

@DavidKay1 Год назад

The exchange around minute 55 is really interesting. Not sure Steven really appreciated how much learned helplessness there is among life long Mormons that need help connecting the dots.

@katbos4995 Год назад

I’ve heard so many Mormons say they like not having to think or make decisions.

@panninggazz5244 Год назад

Thank you!

@marilynadams349 4 месяца назад

I never would have lived in this org. As I always asked questions! Being female. I was blessed to have parents that encouraged me. Let me read National Geographic’s and the world book encyclopedia . In 1950 small town.

@terryaustin6507 Месяц назад

john, I appreciate your honesty and clear thinking

@aross6925 Год назад

For the watchers and listeners there is a brief mute about 6 minutes in or so.

@toonsster Месяц назад

Wow, such a gem, thanks for having Dr Hassan on. I would love to know more about his treatment with ex scientologists. Would love to do the course, but exchange rates suck for us. much love.

@lalakass9041 Год назад

I just don’t understand how John can call jahovas witnesses cult but not be comfortable with calling the Mormon church a cult

@katbos4995 Год назад

I’ve listened to him since 2016, he’s trying to use language that won’t push active Mormons away. So they’ll listen.

@dorothyleach Год назад

Great information. Thank you for your incredible podcast!

@fluffyduckbutt24 Год назад

I just finished the fist part and bought both books. Dr. Hassan's website is awesome.

@terryaustin6507 Месяц назад

thank you for the open discussion.......very helpful for me

@casenied Год назад

My favorite part was when Dr. Hassan says he's accused of being a libtard and then only criticizes right wing politics of being a cult

@dianedages6596 8 месяцев назад

And he seems to only accept info from certain medicaI experts regarding all things related to c0vid. Authoritative Cults villainize ‘outsider’ perspectives, which creates thought-stopping within people. I feel he is unaware of himself doing this regarding the c0vid topic. (Information control is covered at the approximate 34:00 mark.)

@co-hostamanda3240 Год назад

Fascinating! Great work everyone.

@erpthompsonqueen9130 8 месяцев назад

Thank you, again. Watching and Listening from Alaska. 🕊

@petuniabloom 4 месяца назад

I'm self-recruiting into the cult of Hassan. What a great human being.

@benjamingardea4511 Год назад

To Dr. Hassan’s point on 1 Cor 13, it is incorporated into the BoM in Moroni 7 AND the articles of faith. In terms of lip service the church espouses that scripture without hesitation. In actions, it is a different story. Just like Sam pointed out, it is very much double think.

@penzb7406 Год назад

New favourite episode!!!!

@yvelaine Месяц назад

Marvellous , made me cry ……

@DirtmopAZ Год назад

I just restarted my phone at 7:00 because I thought I lost my audio. Thanks hahaha

@ancyt6 Год назад

Mind-blowing. Both parts. I listened to it holding my breath. Haven't been in a high demand religion myself although all religions are somewhat demanding and scaring. But so many things in this interview were relatable to everyday life. Thanks so much for doing it. Ps. My first introduction to Samantha was awful, here she was like a whole different person. I loved her input.