Thank you Jason! I have not found any other video that explains the canon log formats and color spaces in such clear concise way. Now I can make an informed decision when selecting the right settings in my Canon R6
That’s amazing to hear!! It’s challenging because there is no such thing as the perfect settings, hopefully knowing why you should use one profile over another you can get the most out of the R6!
thanks for explaining canon cinema gamut! the funny thing was I normally set my Canon R5 to CLOG3 with Rec709. But somehow my settings were reset or something. I know firmware updates are not supposed to change your settings but these changes did happen after a firmware update. so I recorded footage and I ran it with the LUT that I always used and my colors were so off. I then went through my camera and saw it was now set to cinema gamut. So I had to go back through Canon's LUTs for the R5 to find the cinema gamut LUTs to get the colors looking good again.
I have also noticed some inconsistency when updating firmware. With my R6 usually (but not always) my settings are retained after an update, but when we update our Canon C300 Mark III bodies the firmware updates wipe out all of the settings every single time. I'm glad this video was able to help! It is one of those things where I am glad they give us so many options, but also more options often leads to more confusion haha.
I really loved the way you break down everything now am confident to chose the type of color profile to shoot in. Now I have known how and when to use each profile.
Love this!! It’s great to hear when a video actually makes a difference. It took me awhile to learn and understand how these camera’s work, I’m glad you found this helpful!
Epic video Jason! I'm just beginning my content creation journey and your explanation of these principles was far and away better than anything I tried viewing beforehand! Thank you very much, have subscribed and wish you many more subs in 2024!
Thank you so much for this, it means a lot to hear that my videos are helping people!! 😊 All the best to you in your journey, it can be overwhelming when you are just starting out, but stick with it, it’s a skill that has brought myself and many others so much joy!
Thanks @@JasonPischke 🙏🙏 appreciated. Yes definitely overwhelming but at the same time keep coming back for more - which is when you know you truly have a passion for something! 💥
Thank you!!! Minute 7:56. -- Question, can you explain about the distorsion with some cameras, I don´t know if it was solved in newer firmware versions or is something about the R6. Cool
Absolutely, this is something that Canon has continually updated and is much better than when the camera's first launched, but can still show up in certain shots. The problem stems from the way stabilization works on very wide focal lengths like 15mm. To get around this, most camera brands do not include image stabilization in their wide angle zoom lenses. If you look at the Sony GM 16-35mm, Panasonic Lumix S-Pro 16-35mm, Nikon 14-24mm, none of these flagship wide angle lenses have any image stabilization. Canon chose to include image stabilization, which I really appreciate, but have received a lot of criticism since it can wobble in certain scenarios. I personally would rather have a feature than not have, but that is why you sometimes see the corner wobble.
Jason, thank u for video. Could u explaine about overexposure during record video. Some people tell that best results for wide dynamic range and excluding noise in shadows it is +1 exposure, 400 iso and CinemaGamut.
Sure thing, in my experience with C-Log and Canon camera's in general, they are fairly easy to clip highlights, but hold onto shadow detail very well. This is opposite of Sony camera's that hold highlight detail very well, but clip in the shadows very easily. You typically don't want to shoot any lower than 800 iso since that is the base iso for C-Log 3, as you dip lower into 400, 200, 100 iso, you actually loose a lot of dynamic range the lower you go. For myself, I try to exposure the highlights like clouds in the sky, lights, hot spots, etc at 90% ire and let the shadows land where they may. I know there are some that swear by the ETTR rule, but if you push the highlights even a little too far you are left with blown out highlights and no way to recover them.
Thank you! I'm learning a ton I just started using Davinci and a Canon R5C I'm working on converting footage shot in BT 709 without my blacks being crushed, I'll shoot in log 3 with and cinema gamut moving forward. Any ideas for the footage I have already shot?
Unfortunately footage shot in BT.709 is going to be limited to around 5.2 stops of dynamic range due to limitations of the video standard. This means that if your blacks are crushed in camera, trying to expand it back out to a wider color space is not going to give you much of a benefit. The R5C is a beast of a camera though, if you start shooting in CLog 3 and the CineGamut color space you will see a massive bump in color and quality!
great video! I have a question: If I am not able to properly light my scene (like a concert e.g.), would it be correct to switch to rgb/rec709? I think, I got a lot of noise last time due to that.
You certainly can, shooting in Rec709 or in CLog instead of CLog3 is going to give you less noise, but you will take a slight hit in dynamic range. Realistically, shooting a concert the stage lights are going to be blown out regardless of camera, so shooting in a more noise friendly profile isn’t a bad idea at all. I know a guy that shoots a lot of concerts with his R5’s and he shoots everything in Rec.709 😊
Hey Jason, great video ! I might just be a big noob here but, I do not understand how to convert Clog3 BT.709 to Rec 709 (using Davinci) could you explain to me how that works ?
Sure thing, so when we are looking at the format there are two different conversions that you have to account for, the gamma curve and the color space. In your case, CLog3 BT.709 is telling us that the footage is already in the BT.709 color space, which is what we want, but is also in the CLog3 gamma curve. Knowing this we do not have to do a color space transform since you are already in the desired color space, but you are going to need to do a CLog3 to WideDR conversion to get the gamma curve out of Log. For this you can use a CLog3 BT.709 to WideDR LUT either from Canon or one that is already built into DaVinci to make that gamma conversion. Hope that helps!
@@JasonPischke Thanks for your answer man ! Means a lot ! This journey is gonna be a loooong one for sure hahaha. When I use the Canon lut on to my video it still looks super flat. I guess I have to color grade it to life now right ? It doesn't look "as magical" as the classic CST from Clog3 cinema gammut to rec 709 gamma 2.4 if that makes any sence.
@@matthieucadrot I am still learning something every single day haha. Are you using the latest Canon LUTs from their website? If you search "Canon lookup table Version 201911" that will give you the most up to date transform LUTs out right now and maybe try those instead of the Resolve ones and see if that helps!
By heavier files, you are talking about bit rate/file size? The target bit rate is determined based on frame rate, if you are shooting in Canon Log or not and your choice of either IPB Standard or IPB Light. Changing the color space might have a slight affect on bitrate since the cameras do record in a variable bitrate mode, but if there is a difference it has been so slight that I haven't noticed. Thank you for watching!!
@@JasonPischke i am also shooting with the R6... So the files are not bigger with cine gamut? it seemed to me that my computer was more struggling for playback and that the files sizes were bigger
@@MichaelBouhnikProductions I will do some testing and get back to you on this, it is not something that I noticed, but could certainly be a factor. Thank you for pointing it out!
@@MichaelBouhnikProductions I ran a few tests with my R6 last night and got file sizes that where +/- 1Mb of each other. These where controlled tests so maybe in the field you might get a more noticeable difference, but I wasn't able to see any difference in file size between the three color spaces in a studio environment. I hope that is helpful!! Cheers!!
Great Vid, I would have loved to have CLOG2 in R5C, but its not there even though we are quite the Sensor can handle it (And I don't want to shoot 8K Raw). I think this is where Canon Really messed up and didn't keep up with other Cameras. This was basically forcing anyone who wanted more out of their camera to buy the R5C or the C70, but those cameras are expensive. But then Sony released the a6700 and the ZV-E1 and made the only way to move forward would be to consider Sony. I bought the ZV-E1 being the highest Dynamic range Camera for the Money, and yes it can outdo my Canon R6 any day. I'm still waiting for Canon's next move in hopes that the R5Mii is better then the ZV-E1 for video. But overall I'm more of a R6 guy and if a killer r6Miii came out then i'd likely be all in.
Completely agree, it has been a frustrating 2 years sitting through camera releases that give us no significant bump in sensor performance. The way it sounds right now, the R1 and R5 Mark II are both going to be using significantly updated sensors and will have the ability to shoot CLog 2. I was disappointed in the R6 MarkII, the R6 hits such a sweet spot between price to performance, but to bring very little improvement over the original R6, it didn’t feel like a true successor in my opinion. I’m hoping the R5 Mark II is that big leap we need to see from Canon.
Perfect so this was clear but I still have a few questions. I am new to videography, as a matter a fact I have never edited the little clips I have recorded with my new camera. I plan to do video for weddings. My best bet would be C-Log 3 and cinegamut correct? Will this option be easy for the client to see their video on iPhones? I plan to also give them the video on a USB, will this option be easy on my end and easy for them to see it on their laptop?
If you have never edited any footage before I would recommend starting with C-Log BT.709 and once you get a better grasp of the color correction workflow you can more comfortably move to C-Log 3 CineGamut. Straight out of camera, so without any editing, CLog is a much more pleasing profile and is significantly easier to color grade. CLog 3 requires the use to transformation LUTs or a deeper understanding of color correction. I hope that helps! Best of luck with the weddings!!
@@royaltykidstv I personally only use two of the focus modes. The subject detection/tracking mode and the single point focus mode. I have a video on the channel going over all of my settings if you want to know a little more about how I set up my R6 for video work!!
So cine means wider values will be fitted into same bits. Means resolution will be smaller and more prone to banding and simmilar effects? Maybe 2020 good to grade/make 709 in production. And Cine is good to grade into 2020 (HDRs). If shoot in Cine and then work on only narrow place for with low contrast for 709. Can it be more noisy/banding effects?
In my experience I have never had banding or artifact problems with CineGamut. I believe this is largely in part to Canon increasing the data rates when you switch to shooting in Log. I have also in my tests not noticed any change in noise either. There is a change in how much noise you get when switching from R709 to CLog and from CLog to CLog3, but no noticeable change when using different color spaces. The biggest difference and reason I shoot CineGamut is because the set of RGB primaries are much wider in CineGamut vs. R709 and so you can record the most color data in a scene and have the ability to covert down to the output space after the grade. That said, if you want to streamline your workflow and not bother with all of the color space transform stuff, shooting in 709 makes a lot of sense.
@JasonPischke I tried yesterday. On native ISO. Loaded into unmanaged timeline. Applied g729 Clog3 to all 3 of them. Indeed 2020 and Cinema are slightly more flat on my P3 screen. Then I applied correct color spaces and CLog3 gamma. They look identical. Then i start playing with extreme curves, trying to see artifacts. I saw almost equal artefacts at extremes, but cant see difference. Maybe R6mk2 gamut is much more narrow than all of them. But cant be, what about 709? So if i shoot in 709. Does it mean that the camera registers only 709 range? Not really, or i would not get equal artifacts. I am guessing if shoot Clog3 709, which place 709 is used?
Hmm so I just got a C200 but I can’t use Cine gamut in the menu? I don’t need to shoot i raw is worth mentioning so it could be because of that. What can I do as all my LUTs made for Clog3 looks bad since they are based on cine gamut😢.
I am not super familiar with the C200, but from what I have read it sounds like Canon may have not included CineGamut with the standard .mp4 recording mode. This may be because in .mp4 the C200 shoots in a fairly low bitrate as well as in 8bit. There might not be enough data to properly capture all of the color info needed for CineGamut. On our C300’s you can change the gamma setting by going to the Custom Picture menu, selecting “Edit CP File” and then scrolling down to “Gamma/Color Space”. If CineGamut is not available under that menu, then sadly it was probably was left out by Canon.
@@JasonPischke ok thanks for taking your time answering, really appreciate it! I am getting the C400 when it releases so this should not be an issue for me in the future :). I will shoot in the wide DR mode, looks good only needs added contrast and some saturation.
@@sa.t.2507 can’t wait for the C400 to start shipping! It has such a nice balance of frame rates, resolutions, codec’s, IO, it’s a camera I’m super super excited about!!
@@JasonPischke exactly the same feeling here! I have sold my FX9 with the entire kit and lenses. Leaving Sony since I’ve been with them from 2014. This camera really does it all for me. I have a lot to learn since I’ve never shot on Canon. The C200 is a great introduction to Canon for me. Just need to figure out the issues with getting correct colors with LUTs.
The best way to get the correct input LUTs for your camera is to go to product page for your camera and then navigate to support. Under software and drivers you will find a downloadable Canon Lookup Table that will have everything you need!
HUE SHIFT SAVING TO JPEG? I have just upgraded from a 7D to an R5. I edit raw in photoshop. I save a full resolution JPEG at the least compression after editing all my photos. I have a separate program. it's very old. It's simple. it batch processes all the jpegs, dropping the resolution and adding more compression for a smaller more manageable photo. I am now noticing a hue shift in the (double) compressed, smaller jpegs. It's not too dramatic, but the fact that I'm noticing it tells me it wasn't there before. it's something new. I'm wondering if there is a difference in the color space or something with the way the new camera handles the color? What else could be causing this?
Hmmm, I’m not too familiar with compressed JPEGS, but if I were to wager a guess it might be the resolution of the R5 that is causing issues. Being a much bigger file, both in terms of dimensions and in megabytes, when you are heavily compressing it, it might act different than the smaller size files coming from the 7D. Another possible reason is as you mentioned, the program you are using is very old and might not be suited to handle the R5’s file’s properly. Either way, that is kind of a bummer. Maybe try Adobe Bridge and see if bulk compression through that yields better results since it will have all of the correct profile data for the Canon R5.
@JasonPischke Thanks for the answer I hadn't considered the enormous file size difference. I can only guess how the compression works. It could be throwing away a lot more color information with the larger file size. But that's just a guess. thanks for the suggestion to use the other Adobe software. I'm also looking into light room. I don't know why I never used it. I never thought I needed it till now. I'm looking at away of automating my saving from the original in photoshop that could have potential too. maybe I don't need to save it first, then further compress the saved file to something smaller. It's probably better to go back to the original to make the second even smaller file.
@@geniferteal4178 Definitely look into Lightroom, I have used it for 10+ years as an editing platform, as well as a photo management platform. It has a little bit of a learning curve to fully understand how to use catalog's and smart collections, but it can be a powerful tool. It also has integration with photoshop allowing you to send photos' back and forth relatively seamlessly!
