Editors Note: The 5 rookies to make an All-Defensive team are: David Robinson Kareem Abdul-Jabbar Tim Duncan Hakeem Olajuwon Manute Bol NOT MICHAEL JORDAN
Legend Of Winning I have Tim Duncan in my top 10 and I’ve got Kobe right outside the top 10 even though I enjoyed watching Kobe a lot more than Duncan. Anytime I’ve said that to other B-ball fans, they say I’m “crazy” for having TD ahead of Kobe. A lot of them made the “TD had a lot of help and Pop as coach” argument...like Kobe didn’t have Phil and Shaq along with other help over the years.
Tim played in a system where stardom, ego, & stats were checked at the door. The result was five championships, endless playoff appearances, and exemplary teamwork.
Yeah. KG is my favorite player but the antics never phased TD. Their head to head numbers are comparable, but the chips (obviously) and individual awards aren't.
El Cochino To be fair KG had to spend his career in MN. I’m not even sure Micheal Jordan could’ve won a championship with that franchise, and I’m a Timberwolves fan
The only guy i witnessed posting a 20-20-10-8(quadruple-dub in my book) in a championship close out game. The greatest all-around clutch performance i ever witnessed live.
@@Theterminato2013 "I ever witnessed live" were the key words; clearly you weren't paying any attention to what I was saying. I was only 4 years old when mj did what he did in that game 6 vs Utah. Obviously, that game was absolutely legendary; I'm just making a statement on what I personally witnessed live.
All this disrespect on other legends are perpetrated by Mao Zebron Chinese money lover James' dickriders and media groupies just to hype up his legacy.
Tim duncan is hella disrespected that dude was a silent killer yet he's the best power forward in league history Same with the dream nobody talks about him
"this is one of popovich's patented offensive schemes... watch how the ball handler dumps the ball in to duncan... and then everybody just stands still." hahaha i never realized how funny this channel was i'm subbing
Hans Moleman On face value those isolation plays looked simple and stagnant but there’s a certain nuance to their offense that normal fans would notice.
I'd like to point out that If it hadn't been for a series saving shot from Ray Allen and the Heat, Tim Duncan would be a perfect six for six in the Finals just like Jordan. Let that sink in for a minute.
Duncan was on the bench during that shot. He would have gotten the rebound instead of Bosh. There would have been no Ray Allen shot. Worst decision Popovich ever made.
My brother no truer words have ever been said that was very stupid of pop to take Duncan out of the game at that critical situation sir I thought I was the only person to see that thank you for seeing that that would tied Duncan with Jordan
I remember Kawhi Leonard missing a crucial free throw in the closing moments of that game; I think the Spurs would have tied the game or led had Leonard made the shot.
Tim Duncan's the guy in pickup who does nothing fancy, but who's team stays on the court all night. He's the guy you want on your team, cause no matter what mix of guys you get. He finds a way to fit in. Not a lot of players can do that.
true..he won a title as a starter/best player or 2nd best player on 3 different types of teams in 3 different decades and unlike john salley he actually mattered to all 3 cause the 1996 bulls and 2000 lakers would of been just fine without salley useless old ass....and what amazes me most about duncan is between the titles in 1999 and 2005 his entire roster is different and only manu bowen and parker even remained from the 03 title team just 2 years later......hes versatile as fuck....
Somebody asked me who the best player since the Jordan era was and I told him Tim Duncan. He figured I'd say Kobe or Lebron but knew I knew my shit when I said Duncan.
@@justsayin669 Kobe averaged 35 on a team where he was the only offensive threat. Duncan was only better than Kobe for the first 3-4 years of Kobe's career.
I found it cringe and shallow tbh. I know Pop wasn't always this revolutionary, hall-of-fame level coach, but he could've conveyed that in a more evident, thoughtful, and accurate way. The entire video was filled with relevant, warranting information, except for this segment, and it came off as really lazy. An opportunity for another solid argument wasted for sure
@@logankandel846 I thought the way he just glossed over tony parker was pretty cringe.....just gonna forget about averaging 25ppg in the 07 finals AND locking finals mvp....c'mon LOW. I expect that shit from Korzemba.
@@manz7860 he obviously was amazing in that finals but overall he an old Admiral a young Kawhi and Manu isn't better than The Help other star's get like MJ had Pippen Shaq had Kobe and Wade etc
Those people are idiots. I'm pretty sure those mouth came from Carmelo Anthony fans. They think more flashy looking step up moves and unefficient can win titles. How pathetic.
Kid these day aren't big on "fundamentals" they always like flashy moves like crossover and sht like that when those fundamentals will keep you effective and good throughout your career smh
@@laurensangelocastrillo7087 The problem is kids these days only cared about looking good being all flashy and shit. Doesn't know what's easy to do and be efficient. I wish kids admire players like Duncan and Kawhi Leonard. Both of them doesn't care about looking good. They only care about winning and being efficient.
As a Lakers fan, Tim Duncan was MOST DEFINITELY dominate, THE greatest Power Forward EVER, and I'll have NO PROBLEM having him in my all-time Top 5 list
Spurs fan. I loved to hate the Lakers but still respected them. In the end Kobe and Duncan both won 5 rings. Both very different. and I think it was a great rivalry for over a decade.
I don't know. Tim Duncan is on record saying that Wilt was "on another level" to him, so that puts Wilt automatically on top since that's what the man himself says. Then there's Michael, obviously ... and then there's Kareem. If you have Michael, Kareem, Wilt and Tim in that conversation, who do you put in the 5th slot? Who do you bump out? Bird? Johnson? James?
Me too man ! I hated the spurs to the core because of him ! He destroyed many teams with his so called “basic ball “ what a fucking legend man . Rest in peace Kobe . Would have loved to see them share the stage after their HOF speech
The "he had too much help" argument is the dumbest load of crap ever. By that logic, every legend should be knocked down. Shaq wouldn't have any rings without Kobe and D-Wade, Magic had a stacked team with Kareem and James Worthy (great situation), Kareem did not have playoff success without Magic and Oscar Robertson, Larry Bird wouldn't had won any rings if the Celtics didn't trade for Kevin McHale and Robert Parish, Kobe needed Shaq and Gasol to win championships, LeBron would still be ringless without D-Wade, Bosh, Kyrie, and Love, and even Jordan had no success in the playoffs before Scottie Pippen, Horce Grant (first three-peat), and Dennis Rodman (second three-peat) joined the team. I get that Duncan may not be flashy, but don't allow your bias to contradict your arguments because that's what it is.
waffleman Tim Duncan outplayed Shaq in stats since he came in the league in head to head games. Look it up. He held Shaq to 23.4 points over his career, 11 rebounds, 2 assists, 0.7 steals and 1.6 blocks. Tim Duncan vs Shaq 22.8 points, 13 rebounds, 6 assists 1.2 steals and 2.8 blocks.
@@loveofmangos6112 Yeah, with Mutombo wining the DPY, Larry Brown and Aaron Mckie. If Duncan is the most underrated player, Iverson is the most overrated
@@noah_256. He is 37 and yet he drops 30 points on the Heat and grab at least 10 rebounds on that Game 6 of the 2013 NBA Finals. Should have been a close out game in basketball perspective.
@@samhopkins3610 yes. But you don't sacrifice your skill or lose skill based on your own decisions. Taking small role and sacrificing your potential to be an all star is common.. but ginobili and parker were just as skilled every year of their prime, just with small roles
Brayden Stultz Parker and Ginóbili were both skilled but what made San Antonio great was that they knew that if one player was having all the numbers they wouldn’t win. Tim probably could’ve averaged 30 but spurs wouldn’t have won as much because it would take away from his teammates
Anto C and his other ring he won with Kyrie and Kevin love and don’t forget Allen made the winning shot for one ring and Kyrie made the winning shot for his other ring
@@tygggyy7490 allens shot was to tie the game not win it and it was game 6. lebron had a triple double to close out game 7 and kyries game winner came with 45 seconds left in the game which was tied and they won by 4 anyway so take away kyries shot and they STILL win that title
@@MrYoYoBoBoChaddyInsaneZhangII yeah its like lebron is the only great player in history thats not allowed to have other good players on his team. theres literally one player i can think of in the last 40 years who won a title without another superstar on his team and that was Dirk
Tim Duncan was robbed of being the 5th person to earn a quadruple double in NBA History as well as the only player in NBA Finals history to earn a quadruple double (2003 NBA finals game 6). For context, check out the big kiwi’s video on this incident.
I feel like Tim Duncan is very underrated on all time lists. I usually see him around 9 at best. I personally have him at 4. He was just a silent monster
As a lifelong Spurs fan (43 years old), this is my favorite video on RU-vid. One small comment - you mentioned the Spurs "tanking" in 1997 to get Tim, if you applied your same logic and examination to what actually happened that season, you would find that isn't what happened. 1) Signing Dominique to be a bench scorer in the offseason is not a tanking move 2) David had a back issue, came back, and THEN broke his foot 3) Pop was so disappointed in the coaching that he fired Bob Hill and took over coaching himself - why would he do that if he was trying to lose games? The Spurs "tanking" is just another lazy narrative advanced by haters and Laker fans. Five stars on this video.
I always heard Pop fired Bob Hill because David and AJ wanted him out, which would explain Pop taking over the day David came back from back injury for those 5 or 6 games before he broke his foot and missed the season. But Pop took the blame for it because he didn't want the media to label David a coach killer. And the blame was ugly, Kevin O'Keefe shit on Pop almost every day in the local paper after Hill got fired and made Pop very unpopular in San Antonio. It's likely the reason the vets were so loyal to Pop in 1999 when he was about to get fired and replaced with Doc Rivers. It's why they went on that ridiculous run starting in Houston the game after dropping to 6-8 in 1999.
Tim Duncan can def be called the GOAT and I wouldn’t be mad tbh. Unstoppable on offense and defense I can honestly see in the future the younger generations will be talking about how Tim couldn’t play good in their era cuz of how “simple” his game will look.
He had too much help in his career and got drafted into a great organization so he cant be the goat. Give me Ginobili and Parker and Robinson and Leonard and ill win the same as Duncan lol
I watched team Duncan destroy all my favourite teams ! To me he is the greatest Power Forward of All time ... I just can’t put anyone else above him especially during the his active years and prime years . Such a great video with great insight . Thanks 🙏🏿
I've got in many of arguments with people who disrepect Duncan as an individual player in regard to kg or malone bring better. People really don't remember how cold prime Duncan was. Got too used to old man Duncan.
Tim Duncan is also a gentleman. To the point where people thought he was boring. Guy's dry humor was hilarious to be honest. I've met him a few times. Absolute class act on and off the court.
Not commenting just because I'm a Timmy fan, but couldn't help but say that I love the objective, intellectual approach you give to these types of videos. And the way you're able to enunciate your ideas is such a perfect fit. Keep up the awesome stuff my dude!
@@Peter-hx3im i can see what you mean about rivals, but i think it makes even more sense than not because of the kind of players/men they were. good guys, quiet, non loud mouth thugy, business-like approach but still with silent assassin type mentalities. i hated nash as a spurs fan, but now that i look back on my fav players ever that werent spurs...sadly i have to say dirk, nash. but when they were playing wow did i hate them so much. ill never forget in the playoffs bruce (bowen) rejected dirk on a jump ball in the 2006 playoffs and i called everyone i know to declare the debate over (bruce defense> dirk offense)
I love Tim Duncan and his attitude (along with the rest of Popp’s Spurs at the time). He wasn’t boring to me. I loved how he just got the job done and didn’t require a whole lot of attention.
He could have said it in a better way, but it wasn’t laughable. As much as I love pop and respect him as one of the goat coaches, Gregg Popovich needed Tim Duncan ALOT more than Tim Duncan needed Gregg popovich. Won’t people fail to realize, especially when Tim was at his best Tim Duncan was the system. Both offensively and defensively, everything revolves around him and his dominant play.
@@jtg0330 Yeah but then he would have to be higher on alot of people's all time greats list. So we can't have that. Instead people rather believe the Spurs was all pop so Tim loses consideration as a great.
@@jtg0330 What makes Popovich great is his schemes regarding picking players by character and getting the max out of them, and his strategic vision regarding his players in shape physically and mentally come playoff time. Duncan is mostly disrespected because his highlight reels don't show either superman athleticism or flashy passing. Even at the post - he'd either make the turn-around shot, or squeeze under and around players.
Sorry but no disrespect to or anyone. But take a look if Kwahi really didn't want to be San Antonio he should say something instead playing a fool as well not sitting with his teammates when he was hurt. But he goes to a LA baseball game and his team were playing. Who needs him. I would like him if say no and say I don't want to be here in San Antonio. I rather be in Los Angeles. If he did that. It would be great.
Take look kwahi just didn't want to be in San Antonio. What ball player refused to sit with his teammates and go to a baseball game. If you're hurt stay home or go to rehab. He didn't care about his teammates that's when his teammates turn their backs on him. If you care about your teammates you would support them no matter what it take being hurt or not you will sit with them or suit up and play. Kyle Lowry actually won the Champions for the Raptors not Kwahi take a look at his defense and that competitive spirit. Kwahi didn't even do that. He just to be in LA
Great job. I think we'll never fully understand how great was Tim Duncan. His competitiveness, his consistency, his hard-working, his all-rime defense, his all-time offensive skills, his unique IQ, his efficiency, his unselfishness, his leadership, his coachability, his durability, his playoff play... He is EVERYTHING you want from your superstar. He's the dream player to build a team around. He's the ultimate player. 20 years of greatness, 20 years of winning, 20 years of playoffs contention. He's one the very, very, very best to ever play the game. Period.
@Noyce Gaming wat 5 goats he got swept by shaq and Kobe in 2001 or 2002 Kobe averaged 32 against the spurs in the playoff I know we aint sayin hes better than Kobe cause thats crazy as fuck and we know Duncan had really good teams that were still winning when he was old I dont want to hear it hes correctly rated out the top 5 Kobe is wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy better than Tim duncan in whatever era and Hakeem and Dirk are better
Welcome to the world of the OldHeads. You’ve finally lived long enough to hear people who weren’t old enough or intelligent enough try to set the narrative on a player you saw play. Duncan is (arguably for some, definitively for me) the best player of his era. He is more credentialed than anyone that played in his era. Anyone. Yes, that includes Shaq and Kobe and anyone else that played in his era. Kobe is the most popular, but his resume doesn’t match up to TD’s. And please, name me the guy as good as Shaq, Kobe, Kareem, Magic, McHale, or Pippen.
Julio Thom look, I’m not old enough to have actually watched him play, so I know I don’t know from watching him live, but I’d say that he’s second behind Kobe. Not by much, but behind Kobe. He’s definitely above Shaq though.
You are exactly the problem. You never saw him live, but you'd say he was second behind Kobe. If you didn't see Duncan, you obviously didn't see Kobe either. How can you give an informed opinion then? If you did research, you'd see that Duncan has more accolades, more accomplishments, won more MVPs, and was a better defender (arguably one of the very best ever). A Duncan-led team never won less than 50 games and never missed the Playoffs. Kobe is markedly worse in every single thing I mentioned. The only thing Kobe did better than Duncan was score points, and it's not like Duncan was a poor scorer.
Julio Thom I see your point. And when I say they’re close, I say they’re really close. Like, literally, the closest ever. I’m just putting Kobe higher because of the fact that Kobe has six titles and TD has five. That’s it. Playoff success. Honestly I do think that he is one of the greatest of all time, I’d go as far a saying a top eight.
@@im_waffles2920, but Kobe doesn't have 6 titles. Kobe has 5 rings. He won 3 with Shaq and 2 with Gasol. If that was your reasoning for putting Kobe over TD, you need to reconsider things. Duncan was Finals MVP in 3 of the 5 teams he won with, while Kobe was Finals MVP only twice. Kobe was 1A or B to Shaq in the first 3-peat.
@@im_waffles2920 And Duncan won more Playoff games than Kobe did. The Duncan/Parker/Manu Big 3 won more Playoff games than any Big 3 in History, so even there your reasoning is flawed.
Great video, bud. I was fortunate to start watching the spurs in 1991. I got to watch Tim start and finish his career. He was definitely a selfless player, capable of more than he produced. His sacrifice made the team what it was.
As far as the "he had good teammates" argument goes: Basketball is a team sport, and great players know that and try to make their teammates better. And Duncan did that in spades, in no small part because of decisions he made, e.g. taking a pay cut so that Parker and Ginobili could get more. And that's a big part of why the Spurs led by Duncan did better than, say, the Knicks led by Melo. Part of the other reason Duncan gets less attention, I think, is because he never went around saying "I'm the greatest!" He preferred to make his legend on the court rather than in the press.
Michael I mean probably because Marcus Camby was solely an defensive player and could exert all his energy on that end, like Draymond Green or Ben Wallace
He got robbed so badly so many teams. Media split there votes to him with Bruce Bowen. He almost won that 2007 against Camby and nba got brainfart and turn the award to Camby..
@Noyce Gaming It was because of his athleticism. Im not trying to poke at the credibility of end-of-season awards, but it is based on people's opinions and optics. So whose more lukely to get the DPOTY award, the 7 foot guy who cant jump very high, but consistently clamps up every play or the athletic behemoth who is jumping out the gym to send your shot to the skybox (a Ben wallace type)?
Besides Michael Jordan, Tim Duncan might be the 2nd greatest basketball player I have ever seen! What has Pop done without him besides lose in the Olympics this year? 🤔
The part about 10:30 in where you clown on Popovich's early playcalling "mastery" had me laughing so hard I couldn't breath. xD Great arguments all around.
@@giantl9196 Lol what are you talking about? His Spurs don't have elite talent and are still competitive. Better than most anyone's evaluation of the team's talent had them being. His "system" is to adapt to the players he has. He played slow with Duncan and Robinson, fast with Parker and Ginobili, 3 point heavy with Belinelli and Patty Mills, and now mid-range centric with Aldridge and DeRozan. If you think the USA team losing discredits him in anyway you're just foolish. A team that has played together for what a month compared to a team that plays together nearly year round and for years on are apples and oranges. Plus, the teams they lost to probably had the better overall player on the court. Jokic and Gobert are better than anyone on the USA team. The team shot 26% from 3 and 66% from the FT line against France. Serbia shot 48% from 3 which is tough to beat for any team. However, even with all that said, they had like 2 all-stars on the team. Nothing special about this USA team. They would make a 7 seed in the East, maybe.
So well said!! I have been having this same conversation with basketball heads for years...it’s crazy the disrespect Tim Duncan has gotten and continues to get from ‘too’ many!!
Thanks for the video. So crazy, I was just telling my son about Duncan and how amazing he was at utilizing the backboard, among other things. It was sweet science watching him play.
@@godfather2084 Give Kobe the support Duncan had his entire career and Kobe would've won at least 8. Besides a player like Shaq playing alongside Duncan will clog up tbe lane.
Nice video. Good arguments by you. I'm a big Duncan fan. I was already a Spurs fan when they drafted him. What a treat it was to be able to root for him for 19 years and 5 championships, ESPECIALLY the 2014 championship.
Great Video!! I noticed no Yao Ming in the beginning. He schooled Shaq when Shaq was in his prime - making him resort to aggressive tactics found in football and other fight sports because basketball skills weren't working for him.
Far above Barkley, Malone, Garnett, Dirk, McHale, etc. How far is the gap between 1 and 2? We all know Duncan is the best power forward, but no one can agree on who the second best is, we all just know that Duncan is better that whomever we think is number 2.
@@user-wv2qd1vs2h 1.) Yes the Admiral was washed up due to all the injuries over the years. This isn't a prime Admiral. 2.) Literally the only time Robinson averaged more points then TD was in 1997 and that gap between them was minuscule. 3.) Timmy averaged more points, rebounds, and assists also it was TD who won the FMVPs for both of their championship runs.
MJ, Magic, Kareem in lakers, Bird, Curry, Wilt for his second ring, Bill, Shaq, Kobe for his first 3... all had arguably more help, only top 15 players that had less is Kareem in bucks, Wilt when he won his first, Kobe in his 4th and 5th and Hakeems 2 rings. And I think Duncan is boring, never liked him too much, but the argument of him having help is ridiculous because a) that just dumb argument, its a team game, that does not minimise his success and b) he actually had less help than most other goats, he never had true second guy excluding TPs finals mvp season
6 rings to be exact had Ray Allen's game tying three-pointer didn't went in and Kawhi Leonard should have went 2 for 2 in his free throws in Game 6 of 2013 NBA Finals. Imagine that at 36 years old, the stat line of Tim Duncan from that game is 30+ points and 10+ rebounds!
I would say 5 is about right. Not saying he couldn't have 6 or 7, but Spurs have never been a team to repeat after any championship season. They had their chances, but it wasn't meant to be.
I still wouldn't forgive pop for that the fact the take out tim duncan in game 6, it cost them the ring and lebron would be 0-3 against spurs in the final.
They could have had a 5-peat from 2003-2007, but Derek Fisher's .04 shot and the stupid Manu Ginobili foul on Dirk prevented it from happening. Plus a back-to-back ships in 13 and 14 had Manu and Kawhi made their free throws.
Duncan > Kobe - Same number of rings - More MVPs - More Finals MVPs - Never missed the playoffs (Kobe did, four times) - Never played on a sub-50-win-paced team (after Shaq left, Kobe's Lakers only won 50 four times in 12 seasons) And he did all that without ever demanding a trade, feuding with teammates or coaches, or causing any static or controversy of any kind.
He was so fundamentally superb that he made it look easy both offensively and defensively. The most efficient big man ever rivalled only by Hakeem. He was a joy to watch and made everyone around him better. Look at his assist stats.
Great video, solid analysis. I grew up as an avid spurs fan, and Tim Duncan is THE FOUNDATION of that organization during that era. Too humble for the all the glitz and glamor but undoubtedly one the best to ever do it. Thank you.
Finally, someone who knows NBA basketball. Tim Duncan (along with Bird and Kawhi) are my 3 favorite players of all-time. He is definitely one of the top 5 players of all-time IMO.
Great video!! I'm a San Antonio Spurs fan since the early 80's when the Spurs were playing in the Hemisfair Arena. Tim Duncan doesn't get as much credit he deserves!!! Especially taking the Spurs to 6 NBA Finals and winning 5 Championships!!! Tim Duncan should in the Top 5 all time list!!!👏 👍👌
Even Tim’s blocks are severely under appreciated, just watch this video and you’ll see how many of his blocks actually resulted in a CHANGE of possession. He’s without a doubt the best ever at the Block/Steal and it is a shame that his steal total doesn’t reflect that.
Dude you really are a Legend lol this video is literally how I feel, my friends think he’s overrated and horrible, like you can’t get mad about him having good Teammates, if you watch Manu’s Jersey Retirement no one though Manu was gonna be Manu
