Extreme Penetration!? Hard Cast VS Xtreme Penetrator - Underwood .380 ACP+P 

I have been getting comments with conflicting information about Underwood Xtreme Penetrator. I thought for sure that Xtreme Penetrator ammunition was designed specifically for deep penetration, but multiple people have commented that this is incorrect and that this ammunition was only designed to defeat hard barriers and then cause the damage of a hollow point and penetrate to similar depths as an expanded hollow point. I don't have a dog in this fight, but Underwood's website says this under this same .380 ACP+P 90 gr Xtreme Penetrator ammo: "Underwood Ammo combines our trademark power and precision with Lehigh Defense masterfully designed Xtreme Penetrator bullets - the result is one jaw dropping round. This round is solid copper and features a unique nose that maximizes penetration and facilitates consistent and reliable magazine feeding. This round offers: Solid Copper (Lead Free) precision CNC machined design. Good for the environment, bad, really bad for the target Unique nose that increases the hydraulic velocity creating high pressure spikes resulting in a larger permanent wound column *and over twice the penetration than most expanding bullets* Blunt nose for initial energy transfer and straight, deep penetration while allowing for reliable magazine feeding. Solid copper construction and cutting edges to punch through entry barriers without deformation or deflection."

Sam, after talking with an engineer at Lehigh defense, the EP wasn't designed to go deep, it's to stay constant going thru things. And your test actually proved it. Thanks again.. I'm a huge believer in the EP and ED..

Would have liked to see a FMJ in there for comparison.

I have said this before, gun coronagraph and ballistic jell test is very good science. Keep up the good work, I know this takes time to setup and always enjoy the information presented Gun Sam.

The extreme penetrator round actually looks like a great carry round for a .380. Did some decent damage up front and stopped around the 18 inch mark.

We need more of this content. Pure Gold.

Great video. Very informative. Thanks for giving the .380 a voice👍

Oh my God! You killed Kenny, the camera man! 😂

Totally unintentional, but showed the Extreme Penetrator as an excellent defensive round for .380ACP.

I would have loved to see these tests with some FMJ rounds for a benchmark.

Thanks Sam I carry this in my P365 380👍

Really enjoy your testing format with the conclusion being shots at distance. Gives us a well rounded ( pun intended) review. Extreme Penetrator looks like a great defensive round.

I’ll take the penetrator all day. Perfect depth and great wound cavity. Didn’t go through and take out anyone else. Extreme Defenders and Penetrators are great ammo. Carried in all my 380’s.

I think the Xtreme Defender is the only cartridge to use in a 380. HP’s if they expand at all usually under penetrate. And FMJ ‘s usually, even in 380, over penetrate. That being said I carry Xtreme Defenders in all my EDC guns including .40 SW. I don’t think they are gimmicky at all. It always takes a certain velocity to open an HP and they are almost always susceptible to clogging by clothing. XD’s almost always are light for caliber and have high velocities. If everything goes right for an HP they are superior but I’ve seen too many failed HP gel tests. Let’s say you carry a .45. The XD bullets are about a hundred grains lighter than a standard 45 giving an ounce or so lighter carry weight and about 1335 fps which compared to a 9mm is more than 9mm +P and an automatic expansion because it’s.45. I know this is a matter of opinion and you have been testing cartridges in a multitude of configurations for a long time and I enjoy your videos. Thanks.

Yes!!! Thank you, sir!!!! I always comment on your .380 acp videos about my love of the UW hardcast.

GS. Always a good video. That was an interesting comparison. Thanks for sharing. Take care.

For the algorithm

Good test. I carry the Underwood +P loading of XTP in my Bersa Thunder when I'm carrying that, but the last two rounds at the bottom off the mag are the +P hardcast just in case.

I miss the Jug-Or-Not! Not very practicle but a lot of fun!...

“Stay away from the camera stand! He hates this camera stand!”

Some tornadoes go for miles and others go for one block. Either way what’s left behind in the path is destruction.

14:40 NOICE SHOT!!! 👍❤️

👍😊 you rocking the camera twice.

Hi Sam, for reference, I watched your hard cast test video, shot 2 years ago, interesting results here, the .380 seems to beat the 9mm, although you had a "hide" in that test, which may limit penetration, what's really interesting, though, is the impressive performance you got from the .38 spl, compared to the 9mm used then and the .380 tested now. It seems you're better protected in the woods with an old .38 and some hard-cast bullets than you are with a spanking new 9mm or 380. I wonder if hard cast can be a good choice for the low recoil revolver calibers that struggle to penetrate.

Another great video !!! Glad you put in the 2nd mdf board. Would like to see that test with 40 s&w , 357 158 grain , and 44 magnum 180, 200, 240 grain. I think would be great information for people who live in apartment complexs and row homes/town homes 🏡 with thin walls . Keep up the good work. Glad u are feeling better!!!!

I think a stiffer recoil spring would fix the issues with the hard cast in that pistol. But that would also defeat the whole point of it being a "light rack" which is to be a good pistol for people who have weak hands due to medical or age issues. It's cool it had enough oomph in it to knock over your camera from 75 yards! That's the recoil you're feeling! I think the XP might make a good defense load. Although I suspect there may be better options that perform as well for less money. It's nice, even essential, to practice with what you carry.

Thanks for putting the board / rib simulator on the back. Most “ Rapscallions “ have ribs on both sides and fabric layers. This I think is why the 380 was ballistically design by John Moses Browning to be hard. He probably tested on pigs. The Hard Cast not working in your S&W was a sign of a hot load … I think. Did you examine the primers ? That seems like a good boolit just to hot.

This was a fantastic video! Thank you.

EP like ED seems barrier blind, in your test both had the same potential energy yet the Extreme Penetrator dumps its energy quicker while giving perfectly adequate penetration for a defensive load. It didn't give up any real penetration while hitting the denim or the first layer of MDF. I consider it far superior to the ice pick penetration and damage from the hard cast. I have used the extreme penetrator while hunting wild boar in hand loads both 10 mm and 357 Magnum, both are far superior to any other load I've used. I have shot in the last 10 years over 500 wild boars in Florida on my property. Both the EP and ED work regardless of clothing or barriers, I have made my decision, your mileage may vary.

X-Penetrator, X-Defender - same gimmick, different name? Flying screwdrivers...Bah!!! But, yea they work well as defensive loads, regardless of how they do it. Glad to see you're feeling well enough to crank out regular vids! Thanks, as always! Oh -Just in case you don't know (not assuming that you don't): You can clear a stove pipe faster by sweeping your off hand across the top of the slide, front to back, & catching the bullet between your ring & middle fingers.

From recollection, most hollow points in 380 have struggled to go past 12 inches. The underwood extreme penetrator made 18 inches in your test and had decent capitation. In the 380 load which is marginal that probably is good penetration and better than the extreme defender load gets. 17:55

This sounds Chuck doing bear load testing . I would get a bigger hammer !

Your results with the hard cast bullets are similar to those I have experienced when using hard cast handgun bullets in .357", .429" and .452" for hunting deer/wild hog. Deep, straight through penetration. Often complete pass thru. Bullet placement is important, but they will penetrate as deep as you need them to. There are those who suggest that with .380 ACP penetration is to be preferred over expansion and shallower penetration. 🤷‍♂ FWIW, when I carry a .380, it is loaded with Federal HST 99 gr. "micro" hollow points.

interesting round.

The extreme defenders and extreme penetrators may be outstanding defensive ammunition. I don't know. Until we get a reasonable amount of street data to look at, I think I will stick to the best expanding hollowpoints I can find.

Always good, this one was terrific.

Love this stuff

Excellent info thanks!

Seeing the Extreme Penetrator round not penetrate reminded me of Iceland being Green and Greenland being icy. I conclude that someone at Underwood Ammo is a Viking Warrior.

Look at the video TN outdoors 9 did with the 9mm extreme penetrator thru calibrated simtech gel. In that test the penetration was pretty impressive.

Another excellent video. Looks like the Extreme Penetrator would be a good defensive round for a .380 and others.

Re: penetration of the Xtreme Penetrator - I think flat nose FMJ has a better chance of deeper penetration because there are no "wings" up front to generate higher resistance when the bullet rotates and grabs as it enters the medium. In other words, the Xtreme Penetrator will spend some of its energy on grinding the medium while rotating, whereas FMJ having smoother walls should be more efficient (in terms of penetration). At least that's my hypothesis. It would be nice to see them compared.

Thanks !

Interesting results. Appreciate the observable performance. Good choice for carry or personal defense. The Cast might be a bit more penetration than some would like but the Extreme Penetrator might the criteria.

Good review -----------------------> again

It is my understanding that the.380 Xtreme Penetrator was specifically designed as a self defense round due to inadequate results from most .380 hollow points. The bullet design mimics hollow point performance without the expansion that hinders .380 hollow point penetration. Perhaps the name "Xtreme Penetrator" gives one expectations that were not intended by the bullet design, at least in the mild .380 chambering.

Sam, your presentations are getting so much better. I carry a .380 in the winter and a .38 special Ruger LCR in the summer because the snubbie seems to go better with summer clothing. I carry hollow points in .38 special caliber. I've always said that .380 was developed for use in service pistols with longer barrels. That’s why i have a Browning 1911 .380 with a 4" barrel. However, i have no way of testing my hypothesis that hollow points will perform better out of the 4" barrel. Therefore, I carry non-hollow points, because it's my winter time gun and i assume that penitration through clothing layers is important. What do you think ?

I don't consider the 380 for anything more than an upfront close range ohmygawd round. And a mag drop on top of that. Thanks Mr. Sam.

Old timer here, all about sectional density over extra lite high velocity 'gimmicks'. I carry Underwood 90 grain Xtreme Penetrators in my LCP pocket pistol. I don't believe in hollow point 380 in this short a barrel, so I figure these are about my best option. Underwood (Lehigh) really named it wrong. They called it 'Xtreme Penetrator' because it is barrier blind, but with better damage paths than FMJ, not because it penetrates far. FMJ penetrates more. (and obviously so does hard cast lead)

It would have been interesting to see how the all copper bullets fared against a hard barrier compared to a hard cast. My current ammo for danger animals is the extreme hunter 357. The 125 gr all copper bullet. Against a bear or even a feral hog, both unlikely events but still, what matters is getting through really bone into the CNS. Going through gel doesn’t tell that much. Perhaps a test of shooting through pine boards or even thin layers of sheet metal from a safe distance, thick dinner plates or even old car windshields spaced apart. These tests might prove more about the penetration potential.

I'll take Hardcast any day of the week over the new stuff! Time proven and cheaper! I use UW exclusively for my .38, .357, and 9mm!✌️

Yay !!!!

Really good video. Life is full of pro’s and cons and ammo selection is no different. I suppose this just gives us more material to debate which is perfectly okay…just be respectful.

Hi gun Sam. I know that hard cast are very good bullets for hunting. Just ask the deer.,but for defense they will almost always go all the way through. I shot all the way trough a deer last year in front left shoulder, exited right rear hind quarter. Shooting 240 gr hardcast lead from my ruger super Blackhawk hunter 44mag. God bless very interesting video. 😊

👍👍

Good video Sam, I like solid copper bullets but I'm not a fan of the extreme penetrator style bullet.

👍

As soon as I buy a box of underwood extreme defender to carry in my ruger lcp max, you say the round isn't impressive lol, I was torn between those and the speer gold dots, but had no luck finding the gold dots in stock anywhere

Good test .. The Lehigh bullets seam to tumble regardless of their weight. Their 68 grain in 380 ACP does the same thing. I want to like that ammo but I'll take a pass. The 100 grain hard cast performed as advertised but it didn't feed well and probably too hot for most 380's.

Hello Sam, can you test .380 interceptor by ballistic machinist? I'm sure they'll send you some. They're 75gr. Neat to have the second board in there using 3 blocks. Thanks!

Sam, just curious, what is the perceived recoil difference between a 380 and 9 mm? Thanks

Gun Sam do they make a 380 in a 1911 platform. My Colt 1911 shoots hardcast lead 230 grn. Flawless.. my bullets are roundhouse hard cast. Very accurate also. 😊😊

is this safe to run a ruger lcp gen 1

I wonder how the hard cast ammo would do in the new(ish) Beretta 80X Cheetah. It's heavier with a heavier recoil spring than the Shield EZ. **EDIT** LOL, should have waited till the end of the video to comment this, you had the same thought.

Yeah, the underwood 100 gr regular pressure is works great in my wife's glock 42. The +p is just to much

9mm extreme penetrators easily pass thru two gel blocks. They also did change their formula slightly from the first versions of the extreme penetrators. I have two full boxes and a half box from 2017/2018 and I’ve personally sent them thru three car doors all stacked on each other from the junkyard. I haven’t used any of the extreme penetrators from after they changed their formula so idk how these newer made bullets are doing but the originals are absolute BEASTS! Hard cast is always a decent option tho for anyone who’s on the fence. .380 is usually an under performing round anyway compared to 9mm and up. You should have tested the round with a more common carry gun like a 9mm to give a better idea what that will do. I’m sure the difference won’t be major but still.. I’m sure you could call Underwood and get an answer on what the difference is between the older extreme penetrators and newer ones. I’d personally go with the hard cast in this caliber over the extreme penetrators for this experiment.

I'd rather see it in a non +P loading would be easier on both the gun and the shooter.

I'll be switching to extreme penetrator. I have the same gun.

PizzA

Thas a mofn .380 haters lol get you one

Did you forget you are shooting .380? How did the EP compare to a hollowpoint?

Lehigh CEO: "Word's getting out that these Xtreme Defender screwdr-- erm, bullets -- are a gelatin gimmick. What do we do?" Marketing: "Change the name to Xtreme Penetrator." CEO: "Brilliant!"

I do have a question, why would you have a handgun shooting a 380 ACP in the same size that you could have a 9 mm? Not sure I understand the logic. The 380 in my opinion is a mouse gun cartridge My wife carries her Ruger in 380 because....well she's a girl. 😂

id like to see the fluted bullets vs a regular round nose, i bet the results will be about the same, they will both tumble and get near the same penetration. i feel the underwoods are gimmicky as well, designed to catch the fisherman, not the fish...🤪

Good info I'm just shocked that people actually carry that big 380 platform, seems like for the same space one could carry more caliber

$42.40 for a box of 20 of those shells? They penetrate your wallet pretty good, I'll admit. But maybe Xtreme Gimmick would be a better name.

I always enjoy your videos. Hopefully you repeat this test with a 3 inch barrel because I think a lot of people who carry. 380 pocket carry 3 inch barrel or less

Would love to see knife content sam two good suggestions for u for sd carry cs counter tac 2 and the black talon 2