I mean... It's just an F-4B with a different radar and slight engine upgrade, otherwise it is identical to the F-4B, which for all intents and purposes is almost the same as the F-4C. The F-4EJ we have in game is a 1980s/1970s mix, which is why it has a HUD.
In addition its also supposed to have a data link a better internal jammer and also its the first aircraft to introduce and use the an/avg-8 VTAS(Visual Target Aquisition System) Helmet mounted sight with the SEAM(Sidewinder Expanded Aquisition Mode) on the aim-9g making it the first operational High Off boresight missile meaning you can lock on an aircraft just by looking at him.
Only thing bad about the new engine sounds is that you really cant tell if an enemy jet is around you, makes you rely on the shitty spotting system even more than before. Can't count how many times I've just been head on'd in ground RB without even hearing the jet until I'm already on fire
Things WT urgently needs now - Jammer pods, SEAD missions, drop tanks, mid air refueling, alignment of ground vehicle and air vehicle tech trees. Seeing F-105s have to dodge ADATS is just silly.
There was a 20mm gunpod tested by the US Navy which had the Mk. 12 cannon as the base, but the Navy ultimately decided against it. It was 600gal less fuel that could be carried, the gun itself was questionably reliable, more drag, and if I recall it wasn't tough enough to withstand long term carrier operations. The Navy just didn't use gunpods throughout the war as a result (the USMC is a different story). Instead they did what I feel is the far smarter route and just trained their crews better; not just pilots but ground crews too (Ault report and all that jazz). There was also some obscure school called higher cannon or something, I dunno, there was a b-movie about it in the 80's, seemed kinda neat. ;)
@FreeBirb not to my knowledge. I've never once seen a period photo of a US Navy F-4 carrying a gunpod on missions or otherwise. Putting a gun on the Phantom was not a universal opinion. Obviously there's the people saying it wasn't made with one ergo didn't need one. However other people were of the opinion that if you got into a situation that needed a gun, you screwed up. Similar argument was adding a gun would tempt pilots to try to fight in ways the F-4 wasn't technically supposed to, especially given its opponents in Vietnam.
@FreeBirb Lots did, some didn't. I was just pointing out stuff I've learned about the Phantoms in Vietnam. Certainly post Top Gun school Navy crews that got that training would have learned to fly within the envelope that the F-4 truly excelled at and avoid devolving into fights that played to the strengths of the MiGs. You could argue getting close enough to wish for a cannon wasn't in the F-4's ideal envelope in dogfighting, even when the USAF had the SUU-23 or the F-4E. I won't deny gun-equipped Phantoms did quite well during the war because they did; the supersonic gun kill was a USAF F-4E, after all.
Its basically near impossible to dodge a radar guided missile unless you have chaff or you make the enemy plane lose the radar lock. No amount of maneuvering will stop them
@@CecilioSprayetti somewhy flares work better as chaff than chaff do. My radar keeps locking into flares but not chaff, same effect can be noticed when I use flares over chaff.
The "dogfight" in the name of the AIM-7E2 doesn't mean it's a dogfight missile like a sidewinder but rather that's it use the dogfight mod of that sparrow wich mean faster/better tracking off the rail and lower minimum engagement distance
You give the best reviews. You not only speak the best but you really seem to understand the game while maintaining a rational mindset which I feel many others lack.
@@ISAFSoldier when it comes to aircraft like the mig-21pf wouldn't that be shooting yourself in the foot especially considering it did not carry a gun and as I said aircraft that had guns tended to get more kills with their missiles
@@spartanx9293 Never said it was a good idea, but neither was it a bad idea. This was taken from the accounts of USMC and AF Pilots wanting guns and why Top Gun, or Navy Fighter Weapons School, was created and dedicated BFM classes were reintoduced in the USAF to teach the air crews how to deal with smaller more maneuverable fighters with whatever weapons they have. Though the broader missile to gun kill stats are true, you break it down and do further digging, missile hit percentages were abysmal. IIRC, the AIM-7Fs and earlier had hit rates of around 10-13% or so, meaning more then 10 missiles were needed to be launched to score one kill, that would mean a 3 Phantoms statistically needed to expend all 4 of its sparrows to down one MiG and even then, theres still a chance to miss. The sidewinders did slightly better, however at 18%, that isn't that much better. In retrospect, If anything the gun was to give the aircrews peace of mind when their missiles failed them, but seeing there WERE gun kills scored, it wasn't at all far fetched to think that there were some who wanted to rely on a high volume of old fashioned high speed metal to kill their target instead of relying missile systems that were still teething. To add the guns arguments, since then, every late Cold War fighter in production that has a role where they could engage hostile fighters had a gun installed. Fighters like the F-14, F-15, F-16, and F/A-18 all have guns.
@@ISAFSoldier each and every fighter you just listed hasn't killed a hostile jet with its gun the last jet on jet gun kill was performed by a mirage those guns exist primarily for purpose of ground support an f-15 f16 or f/a 18 is going to rely on its missiles above all especially with missiles like the aim 9x
@@spartanx9293 I never said it wasn't a secondary. I said its was a backup when the missile failed. Even in recent memory, an F/A-18E over Syria engaged a Su-22 IIRC, had its 9X get spoofed by flares on the first shot by the Sukoi, he shot an AMRAAM afterwards which did connect, but if that missed, he'd have little options besides run if he didnt have gun.
Another great review, and really pleased you mentioned the new maps. As someone that has really enjoyed RB Enduring Confrontation the handful of times it's been available, the new big EC style maps feel like a much better fit for jet combat. Interested to see what your thoughts are.
Any chance you’re able to do a short video of pros and cons of the come radar and the square radar? I like that the cone can give you an idea of the range for the missiles but lack top to down scans in which helps me find enemy players far out at high/low alt. Also, I think a cool video of what’s next to come would be sick! Like why a MiG-25 or F-14A would work or wouldn’t work and why. Think it’s cool to talk about in the close future what we may see for top tier (:
@@truisticprince that’s what I prefer, but I’m starting to like the 3x3000lbs because you’re faster with them. If there wasn’t so many people spamming the F105 and more based I wouldn’t worry about being slower.
Still gotta grind the F8E first but regardless I'm going to get it because once the F-14 arrives it'll be in the Naval line, already have the EJ Kai so PD isn't so much a concern but still appreciated
God, the F8E repair costs are ridiculous, 12k at stock lmao. I am trying to grind its modules as an added bonus if ever for the F4J, but it drains my SL
@@thebeastlord1626 well yeah it was literally designed for the Navy, funnily enough so was the Phantom no idea why it got it this late tho, don’t worry fam there is still time to make decent progress
you should bind a button to switch your radar to "within visible range" if you have some problems locking onto enemies, or mark radar target if it keeps locking onto the wrong enemy. with that you are able to select the next plane which will be locked on before you press lock
That is how the U.S. president was able to convince the Prime Minister of Canada that the Avro Aero was not needed because everything would be missels. The Avro Aero was the most advanced plane in the world. As a Canadian, and many Canadians in fact, are still very angry over that.
I don’t find the 7f to be all that good since it’s a missile you can easily counter because of its speed. You can also just see where it is easily because if the second stage. Just my experience fighting them thougj
I feel like this is just a sidegrade of the F4E, and instead the F4S should've been added to the game. But I also feel lile Gaijin knows we are reaching the end of WarThunder so they gonna delay the real top tier jets as much as they can.
A point and a question based on ASB. In ASB it takes while to find enemy or enemy NPCs so i like yo have bombs and missiles to get more points. I generally slap anything on the way to a base, drop my bombs and then expend my missiles on the way back to my base to rearm. This is an amazing multirole option for ASB because there isnt a whole lot os dog fighting because it is much harder to get guns on target. Secondly, i have a question about something that was not covered in this video or your CCRP vid. The F4x HUD from what i can see will only show your vertical axis guidance on the gun sight but it wont guide you when it comes to the horizontal axis. Is this correct? No horizontal axis guidance on the F4J for CCRP bombing HUD on ASB?
I would just like to say the navy never used gun pods on their jets, being that they had to take off from carriers quite some distance from the coast the loss of drop tank was an unacceptable tradeoff. Plus there were serious doubts about the reliability of the pods as well. Yet by the end of the war the navy phantoms had a 12:1 K/L ratio despite never having guns. There's a few books on this topic but it boils down to truly horrendously poor training especially on the air force side. And the same lack of training for the people who took care of the missiles as well. So while I agree having no gun was probably somewhat optimistic for the time it was really shown that missiles were going to completely push out guns and the turn and burn dogfights, at least in any conflict with even moderate numbers of jets involved.
I think it would be nice to be able to mix and match missile loads, taking two AIM-7Fs and two AIM-7E2s. I don't have thr F-4J, but fighting against them in my FG.1 I'd honestly say that the 7F is useless at close range. Incredibly easy to dodge at low altitudes. In a missile joust I can see a F-4J lock me up and launch at say 4-6km in the head on, then turn into him and launch my own weapon at 2.5km before breaking to dodge or notch while not loosing my own radar lock on him, his missile will miss, mine won't. If the F-4J could take some E2s as well, they'd stand a chance at close range. Also considering thr extra power of the British phantoms, without the agile eagle kit the F-4J will even loose most dogfights to the British phantoms as well. Without having flown it it honestly seems kinda disappointing. You can fly it with E2s and 9Gs but then you just are a FG.1 with less power.
I’m not entirely convinced the e2 would have been any better in that given scenario. As I’ve seen my 7fs track directly off the rails and they have better base tracking capabilities than the e2, only think is speed, which would have made the e2 even worse at tracking.
@@Huski3s I think what I said was true on release but not anymore. 7F is just kinda better now. Maybe slightly less likely to hit at point blank but way better every other time.
I finally unlocked this plane and.. honestly I cant seem to get the PD radar to even get a lock, but with the regular mode it gets a lock no problem. What am I missing here? This is my first PD jet.
Wow! How long this thing lasted in the top dog spot lmao... Barely got a week before F-14 and MiG-29 and Yak-141 and ALL the F-16 Oh yeah and all the Tornados and Harrier.
Great review, Tim. Loving the Juliet. Find that I prefer getting close with the E-2 Sparrows; I'm too impatient for the Fs. PD radar is very good, especially in ACM mode. Sporty bird, having lots of success.
Could you do a video on defensive maneuvers in jets? I usually don't have trouble with missiles but if I get a Mig-23 on my tail while in my F-4E, I'm doomed.
If a 23 can get on your tail, you made the mistake a couple of minutes ago when you dumped too much energy. The F-4s should all be used as high speed, almost boom-n-zoom fighters, using speed to avoid unfavourable engagements with lighter planes, and to open the distance so you can turn around and use your missiles.
Had here I am, can’t even buy it since after the corsairs, I didn’t buy any other naval aircraft. So now I have about 3mil SL to spend before I can even buy the F4J.
I have a review of the 3 up already, the 5 is on the list for the next week or so. The TLDR though - the mirage 3 is the air superiority fighter, the mirage 5 is the ground pounder.
Mirage 5 is a mirage 3 with no radar therefore no R530 SARH missiles. Better CAS options. Mirage 3 is much better for air2air, mirage 5 is much better for CAS
Supposedly the USAF did offer the SUU-16 or SUU-23 to the Navy, but they declined. The navy decided to just "get good" with their crews than keep adding fancy toys to a plane that questionably needed one.
Then lack of an internal gun wasn't flawed. The USAF installed one on the F4 and increased their KD ratio on the phantom slightly. The US Navy introduced Top Gun and vastly better missile maintenence and increased their KD ratio by multiples over the USAF. The common idealogy that the gun was required came from pilots asking for it, and not combat performance metrics measured from Vietnam. Like any trend with aviation development, the news of many pilots asking for internal guns led to the idea that the plane performed worse without. Today, like any rumor, the F4 sin gun being a bad idea has spread quite naturally.
Now, I do find myself in a few positions where I do need the gun, but I also enjoy having the extra flight performance. As long as you mind your spacing and have good situational awareness, you can run missiles only. Not absolutely recommended, though
I run missiles only religiously. Without the gunpod you can outrun MiG-23s at low altitude and the missiles have more than enough performance to net you 2-3 kills without issue. I've had a few situations where having a gun would've been nice, but I've never died or lost a match because of not carrying it.
i unlocked it today and love it. the missiles are great. the only issue i have is that i find the pd radar has a hard time locking enemies and always seems to lock friendlys
@@xcc9162 ive been using the small sweep for the radar. i find that works the best. then just point and shoot. also if their going perpendicular to you, you wont be able to see them at all. its a trick you can use called notching
@@xcc9162 yea I just played a game. I’ve also been using the e2 sparrow over the fs and I find their better. Kinda wish I could take 2 and 2 but whatever. I finished that game with 3 sparrow kills.
Firing two Sparrows at the same target causes the first fired missile to go stupid, since the Phantom's PD radar can't guide more than one missile at a time.
@@invertedv12powerhouse77 Years of aircraft don’t matter when it comes to this game. The f4S should have a high chance to come this game ether way. Time will tell
"there are dedicated ground attack planes that are much more suited than this is" ....umm...no? The F4 is famed for its massive wing loading capacity. I take my F4C out exclusively as a ground pounder to knock out bases and then go for ground targets; missiles being there for self defense or targets of opportunity. But there's no reason why you couldn't use the F4J the same way. Frankly, its more chill and earns better lions/rp most of the time. Also, this thing you do where you drop bombs on howitzers and other light targets is absolutely absurd. No kidding you're not getting a whole lot out of your bomb loads. Bombs are for bases. The cannon even with air target belts can shred through tanks and pillboxes, so its a complete waste to use bombs on any ground targets at all.
well theres still the f4S possibly, when that gets added there really is nothing left to add(in terms of top of the line fighter progress) other than the 4th gens , so at this point its either the f4s next or its gonna be the f14a, f15a or the f16a
@@rikiluis222 i agree, it actually woudnt be that bad if it came with the just aim 9j loadout shit even if they have it be the one that can carry sparrows (still 'A" variant, not sure what block) which could have 4 aim9js and 2 aim7Fs or 4 Aim7F and 2 aim 9js.
No, the F-4E has a longer nose and smaller radar to fit the M61A1 Vulcan Gatling gun. F-4 aka F-110 Spectre was designed with the nose you see on the F-4B, F-4C and F-4J.
honestly when i unlocked the f4e i felt sort of strange since it didnt look like an f4 that i seen in documentaries, but the f4j however dam it looks fine
@@DeadSkyWT I honestly still do well in the F4E once I started figuring the meta a bit when PD was added. Up high at 8km the ground interference is far enough to test sparrows at targets below me to a certain angle
Just to warn people This plane has a horrific stock grind You start with 2 aim9Ds and must grind 4Ds and Aim9Gs before you even get radar missiles And the gun sprays like a shotgun
Pulse Doppler, maybe, I’ve seen conflicting report whether the an/apq-120 did work on the Doppler principle, but it definitely didn’t get look down shoot down capabilities. And considering that is the only upside after a list of downsides of pulse Doppler, there would be no reason to add it to the F-4E as it would just be worse than the default radar set.
The 100, 105, and 101 were made with an older AF Paradigm. The F8 was nicknamed the "Last gunfighter" for a reason. And the F-5 was a reaction to the F-4's design Doctrine, seeing what the older MiG can still do.
@@ISAFSoldier the f8 was not the last gunfighter it's primary weapon was its aim 9 sidewinders (and it most certainly was not the last fighter with a gun)including a special radar guided variant it killed very few aircraft with its guns and the F5 was designed as a cheap export fighter it just happened to be really really good to the point where it out competed the mig 21
@@spartanx9293 The nickname came from that its design parameters as they wanted it to have its 4 colt revolver cannons as its PRIMARY weapon, considerations for adding sidewinders and radar came later. The F-5A only happened to do better, true. However, the F-5E was made specifically as a low cost fighter able to compete against the MiG-21 and they KEPT the guns from lessons learned from Vietnam going without guns.
@@ISAFSoldier the Colt Mark 12 is gas-operated not revolving you're confusing it for the 30 mm aden and as I said before the f8 never used those as its primary weapon it always used sidewinders and if Vietnam has shown anything it's that guns are a secondary weapon mostly existing for ground support purposes and that missiles perform better If you don't believe me check the performance of the f4j compared to the f4e
hi tim i have been watching your videos for a while and quite like them but there is one serious thing i think is missing from the your top tier reviews. it is end game gamplay. what im talking about in this example is with the f-4j the aim-7f and aim-9g are both very good at the start of the match going around picking people off and you can use you turn rate to get gun kills on slower targets and you discusssed this in the review perfectly well. but one serious thing i think you missed out on in this and the kfir review in end game performance. the fact of the matter is that in war thunder your team will often be quite inferior to the enemy team (this is lessend by people spamming the f-4e to grind the f-4j currently but will return to normal soon). so you will often find yourself in 1 or 2 v 3 + enemies and often having to go back and re arm if you survive long enough. in this situation the performance of the aircraft massively changes focus where the turn rate of a plane like the f4j goes from useable to utterly worthless and something like the kfir (provided you can spot enemies before hand and not get sniped) becomes incredible. for example a plane like the kfir or mig 23mld can simply sit behind a phantom, outrun it, force it to start turning with missiles and or cannon rounds, and start going much slower than it (denying any chance of reversal) and taking easy gun shots as the phantom gets slower and slower and less and less good at turning basically making the plane useless. overall, i think you should try to seek more of this gameplay even if it is harder to find (also ticket bleed will fuck you in many scenarios) as it is something new players will need to become experienced in if they want to truly do well and have fun at top tier jets. also having the ability to secure close games will net a great increase in grinding even if in many situations games simply cannot be won because there are too many enemies left.
I used aim 9Ds to unlock up to the aim7E2s. Why would you even bother with bombs? i got all the missiles (other than aim7Fs, I prefer aim7E2s anyway) in 3 hours without wasting my time on bombing at all.
