I experienced the very expensive, similar conclusion you mention. Used to have complete custom guns. Now I just go with howas and throw them in a chassis. I wanted something specific and threw a fancy barrel on and decided to true it up while I was at it. Not much difference over factory. That 10 mph of wind or 30 FPS difference is gonna have a larger impact than a 1/2 vs 1/4 gun. Your video is great as always. Hearing your take on this gave me some comfort.
Couldn't agree more. Thanks for shining the spot light on this subject. I constantly get comments regarding my rifles being cheap. Though my intentions are too build them to my needs because I'm a tinkerer. Your channel is great motivation for me, and with my cheap savage 110 and swfa 16x I've been able to connect with a milk jug at 2k twice in a shooting. Thanks for being awesome cheers - Kenny
I like to build up my own rifles from stock factory rifles. I have been very lucky in doing so to this point. Recently purchased a T3X CTR in 6.5 and don’t think I can do any mods to it to make it shoot better. It’s an amazing factory rifle. To each his own.
I bought an old clapped out Enfield WWII .303 and put a new match barrel on in 6.5 Cr with a Bat action, Jewel trigger, target stock and S&B scope and it is like a new rifle! :-)
i learned these lessons the hard way, i build a custom 260 off my old remington 700 i shot the barrel out on. If i had my time again i would have saved a few more pennies and bought a better grade of Factory rifle like a AI or a TRG. I dont regret it because my 260 is everything i wanted but at the end of the day its still a remington 700 and for similar money... i dont think id do it again. Great video guys
I love your comment about being justified in "liking nice things" Im the same, if I love something, ill spend whatever it takes to get it. If its purely a functional item/purpose, then I'll spend the bare minimum to get the job done. Or if I'm just learning and feeling out what I like about an item, I'll spend the minimum and put the big $$ towards the thing I love, as mentioned above.
Hello Mark and Sam! I am happy to hear your honest thoughts. Sorry for YT community : I do not want to make you bored. In my country was difficult to buy accurate factory rifles , only R700 police we started to shoot competition. 308 cal only , and became a pro reloader. It was my best shooting times, had the best results. When we get into special calibers , special barells, just lost the basis: the shooting itself. I have a lot of rifles, but factory Tikka Tac 1 for sporting, and R700 Sendero for Hunting is more than accurate to all situations in between 1000 on paper and 500 meters hunting ethically . No matter of how expensive is your rifle, if you not practice, than just a nice paper weight on your table. A fine bullet choice , proper reloading techniques, and practice means the difference between hit or miss. And this is not about money you invest, it’s about efforts you made to reach the goal. Super video Mark!
I have to agree, I have two factory rifles bone 223 and a 7mm Rem mag both were very accurate once a load was developed, but after barrel life was used up and they were both rebarreled, I have to say accuracy stepped up another level and after a custom trigger to the 7mm accuracy stepped up again, I have gone as far as I can afford so far and am very pleased thanks for another real life video.
I picked up an unfired Winchester Model 70 Laredo Long range hunter 300 win mag for $700 at a gun show in rural Alabama, amazing deal.These were made by Winchesters custom shop for 2 years to compete with the Senderos. Pre 64 actions , Douglas Premium air gauged barrel, and HS precision stock . I traded assorted ammo for a new Nightforce NXS 5.5-22X50 that an older man had bought it and said he didnt like how it looked on his rifle. It is the most accurate rifle I've ever owned. You can cover multiple rounds with a quarter @200 yds. I know it's not long range but I hope to get somewhere to stretch it out. Sometimes you just get lucky.
Most Tikkas will shoot 1/3 - 1/4 MOA out of the box with good handloads. But after three shots the barrels start to wander. For most situations here in NZ that is plenty good enough.
My 243 T3X is finicky with certain bullets. Absolutely hates hornady 95 grain SSTs but loves the Sierra 85 BTHP and the Hornady 87 BTHPs. Shame ghe BC isn't great on either but if I rebarrel, Ill bump up to a 260 or a 7-08
@@cptnscoob I found d the same thing. With my 243 tikka. But settled on a berger 95 it loves them. But the plan to go 260 or 7mm is good logic. The 260 is agreat very forgiving round as far as projectiles.
Great video. I have a Howa barrelled action in 6.5 CM too. Built it up over the past few months with a KRG Bravo stock, 20moa rail, Wildcat moderator, AccuTac bipod on a picatinny right at the front of the stock and a decent Sightron scope. It shoots fabulously and I get, if I’m honest, 1.25moa at 1000 yards at Bisley. At 600 yards it’s sub moa every time with home loads. That rifle regularly out shoots guys with custom gear.... much to their amazement and much to my delight. It’s a fabulous rifle. Interestingly, I found the Howa trigger just fine, people knock them, but I reckon the guys at Howa have made a pretty good unit.
Thanks for another great vid. With these thoughts in mind, could you maybe do a video on what modifications/ accessories on a factory rifle would be the best bang for you buck modifications. I.e. trigger jobs, stocks / chassis , expensive scopes ect. Cheers guys, keep up the great work.
Thanks Man, well we have done some on a few rifles, but really always depends on the rifle, not just the brand. But is always, replace what's not good, keep what is good, no set rule for all. As in all things, do the research it is all in the details. I also have videos on building an ELR rifle, lots of the general rules there, Cheers
Very well explain. You have a way of bringing all the up grades out to make a very good shooting rifle. Thanks for all the information an keep the good videos coming.
Mark one of the reasons I enjoy and relate to your channel is that you guys use a lot of equipment that the common man can afford and relate to. A lot of your rifles are standard barrelled actions. Your bipods are the practical folding type that an average field shooter can use. For me personally nothing is more off putting than what I see in f class or bench rest for example these guys are using front rests worth $2000 which is more than the average guys entire set up on a rest alone. The other ELR guys using what can only almost be moved with a forklift!!! Not practical and not real world in my view. I hope you guys continue down the same path you have been on and keep your equipment and techniques relatable to the common man.
I really used to enjoy being the little guy beating the goliath, my guns were half the price, I spent the extra money I saved on ammo for practice, good scope, good trigger and good muzzle break and the rest is just window dressing.
I shoot weekly long range, about 25 rounds a week. Shot out my factory 6.5 Creedmoor Savage barrel in a year. Replaced the barrel with a Brux barrel for $500. An excellent way to have a 1/4 MOA rifle.
A few thoughs. I work in a gun shop and many of the customers are quite concerned about the accuracy of the guns they may be purchasing. I tell them that for 99/100 shooters (the vast majority where I live are simple hunters or casual weekend shooters) any factory gun off the shelf is going to be mechanically more accurate than they are. Guns coming off modern assembly lines are so good at this point that if a shooter doesn't get sub MOA from his $200 Savage he feels like he has been ripped off. For most people, I advise them to buy something that is within their budget that feels comfortable and looks appealing to them. The dude who is going to really stretch the capabilities of a rifle isn't really coming in asking questions so much... he comes in having done the research and knowing exactly what he wants. I like to build my own custom AR-10/15s. To a large degree this is because I want a gun that is specifically what I want. Some features I want are not at all common or even available on factory guns: fixed A1 buttstock and no forward assist being the most prominent. This also allows me to spend the extra money to get super high-end parts that matter - like BCG, barrel, and trigger - and save money on less important parts like pistol grips and charging handles. It also allows you to do some very weird builds that would never ever come out of a factory but are just fun and interesting to try out. There is also that feeling of accomplishment when you finish your build and get a fine shooter out of it. Like you always point out: you need to set your objective before you find your path. Analyze what you want and need and then get the gun(s) that fit those wants and needs. Top notch video as always.
Money can increase your chances of getting a crazy accurate rifle but every now and then the factory may actually get it right, the first time. I've been very satisfied with my Winchester Model 70's over the years. Then again, mine are for deer hunting not for placing 5 bullets in the same hole at a couple hundred yards. My 257 Roberts will place 3 shots inside less than a dime at 100yds, plenty good enough for whitetails. Great videos, they always have great information and common sense.
for me,here in america,, the best choices for factory is weatherby vanguard or howa rifles,, and i get rifles rebarreled,,but nowdays the best action choice for the money is the howa -vanguard ,, lots of junk being made here, older quality actions are what is in demand, i just bought a weatherby vanguard threat response rifle in 6.5 creedmoor,, its got a 22 inch barrel,, when i would prefer a 24 or 26 inch,,but,,,,,,it is a very fine rifle for the price i paid,,,,,,and its looking like its going to be a very accurate rifle from what i have shot so far with it,,,,,i would buy another,,,,,
MY fun is taking "Factory" rifles, and making them shoot at competitions against people with king kong $$$ set ups. I got 2nd at My first F-class small bore comp against rifles 7 or 8 times the $$ as mine. My issue is I CANNOT leave anything alone! If it shoots anything but one hole, I am going to throw everything I know at it. Sometimes to my detriment, but I'm learning! Thanx man! G>
Hey Mark. Another great video. I took that same path you did with a Howa 1500, 6.5 CM barreled action. I don't have it where I want it, yet. Unless I have missed a video, could you walk us through the steps you took with your 26" 6.5 CM? Thanks again for all that you and Sam do.
I have three high quality factory precision riffles. I've just tweaked them a bit, i can shoot 15 rounds in a 1.2 cms circle at a 100ms (half minute all day long). Now i'm gonna buy another one with the money i saved not buying custom riffles in the first place. But be sure that if i could afford it, i'd go for a nice freaking Custom Space Riffle!!!
Do either of you shoot the opposite of your dominating Eye or Hand ? If so , how do you or others deal with these issues . They are a pain in the rear . I’m right handed & left eye dominant . Also have to wear reading glasses which compromises my sight picture . I either shoot left handed with right hand bolts ( which is what I’ve always done ) or put a patch over my left eye . But my left eye has better clarity . Also do either of you use reading glasses which is also a compromise & makes seeing further away & getting a good sight picture in your scope two different issue’s. Maybe you could make a video using your opposite eye or hand to see the struggles we have , along with suggestions for those of us dealing with these problems . Look forward to seeing your future video’s as much as your previous ones .
In truth, not something either of us struggle with, on that subject, i do have some thoughts, but will do some research to see if I can put together something to help, thanks for the suggestion, Cheers
Me again 😀 have you guys seen the new projectiles from hornady? They are called A-tip for memory. Pretty impressive looking projectiles, and would love to see your thoughts and testing of them.
In 6 months or so when they get in the country, we'll have look, hopefully they are a good step up for Hornady and if so we might be able to start using their products a bit more, Cheers
I like the idea of making a mods that improve the combo or at least see if it does. Same with cars. What an "improvement" is, that's up to he nut behind the butt. good video. Most paupers probably thing this way LOL
So So many things can contribute to accuracy and on any given day you can go from hero to zero in accuracy, from you, gun quality , gun setup, bullet choice , limitation of given conditions and range etc....! In order to enjoy and have fun know you will have good and bad days !
until you are experienced with long range shooting, it's a waste to build your own rifle, off the shelf rifles like a ruger precision will get you 95% of the way there. until you are pushing the limits of your equipment there's no reason to go custom. if you aren't serious enough to be handloading, there's no reason to build custom. until you have the experience to understand exactly what each component precisely does and why, you're not going to get much benefit from it.
worked for a rich landowner who wanted all the pigs gone so he thought it would be a good idea to go buy a 2500$ ar-15 and 2500$ carbon fiber custom rem 700 308 and 2 supressors and have me remove the pigs that way. took 3 days and I was using my 1974 20" 30-30 with redfield widefield scope to kill the hogs with. 223 was designed for rodents and 556 was designed to wound people. 308 was designed because americans thought 30-06 was too powerful. next gun I buy is a garand
308 does the same thing an 06 does in a shorter stiffer action. 223 and 556 kill plenty of deer being almost identical and both kill hogs. 308 will outdo your 30-30 every day of the week. Dont bash on stuff just because it is high dollar.
hello gang, my rear bag support arrives today. to make it easy for donations (especially in the united states) can you provide a link perhaps paypal for easy transfer of support funds. im grateful for you both, thanks
Awesome, and yes we have a donations PayPal link, if you clink on the 4AW icon below the video that will take you too our channel page and there you will find the PayPal icon in the bottom right corner of the banner (picture) at the top of the page, Cheers and all our best.
