Your Mercedes/BMW analogy *resonated* with me. (I have owned both and yes, NOTHING drives like a BMW. The feel of the steering!) Great way to describe the differences in these types of subs. Different "feels"/"Sounds" for two different types of people and what they need. Great job.
Audi splits the difference. It is not as soft as a Benz and not as harsh as a BMW. I went with the sealed SVS Ultra to try to do the same, and it works well for me.
Your videos are very easy to understand and straightforward. I'm going with Rel. It has not been an easy decision but you've helped me out a great deal. Thank you for all your hard work.
I owned rel and have svs now. Both are great. Rel more musical, svs more for movies but both brands can handle music and movies well. Best tip i can give: always go double if you can.🙂
So I loved my sb3000 and it actually is a very quick and tight Subwoofer. However it seems most maggie users are happy with the REL T series or Rythmik F12. I’ve not had maggies in my room so i’m just repeating what i’ve heard from other owners :).
I have dual Rels for a combined 2.2 home cinema and stereo system. I use a AV receiver for movies because the movie experience go quite a bit up with a receiver even if the signal is downsampled to two speakers. And I have a fairly good integrated ampflier that do the heavy lifting making sound in my main speakers both for movies and music. Rel have minimal with bells and whistles. Just four knobs to twist in the back, all analogue controls, no DSP. But that also make it very fast. Very little delay between input signal comes, and output from the woofer is produced. SVS on the other hand, has much more dials and ways to set them up. But at the cost of quickness of the filters. That being said, one of the great features of Rel is that for home cinema, both the speaker level inputs and the LFE input is active. There are many that only have one input, and then I would have to send much more bass signal through my main stereo amplifier for movies, that is good to avoid that as the strain on my main amplifier would be way higher if I had sent all bass through my main amplifier.
Thanks so much for this vid. I've been watching several sub vid last few months and have been completely stuck. I've felt like REL was the right speaker but no one's managed to accurately articulate exactly how the two differ so I kept researching other models as well. You've helped to clear it all up in one short vid. I have very revealing system very textured detailed silky smooth setup and I didn't want a sub that would compromise any of that. It's amazing the details I get and now I know REL will compliment my components. Again thanks so much you've saved me a few more months of anxiety and possibly wrong decision. Great analogies very creative and relatable.
I'm happy it was helpful, I spent about 3 months just thinking about this question while wondering how to make this video. I wanted it to be simple to understand and easily relateable :)
I had to retire my old JBL S120P II sub. I thought that it was a great all around sub. Subtle when it needed to be and slammed when you wanted it to. The amp died, after almost 20 years, so I went hunting for a new one. A friend's Boston Acoustics 12" sub did NOTHING to fill in the void. I went to Magnolia and auditioned about 8 subs. REL and SVS were my finalists. I even thought about a Martin Logan but it was too subtle. I truly agree with this video.... It was truly a matter of what did I want most out of my sub, and this time, I wanted the sub to kick my ass, Mike Tyson style. I opted for the SVS. It felt closer to what my JBL wished it could do and did it. But, god, I loved that REL
martin logan is very under rated, the good ones has the punch of the svs and is incredibly musical like the rel. Gotta listen to them, they don’t receive a lot of recognition
Great video first of all. I went with 2 rel s812's paired with Tonnoy Ardens powered by mono blocked mc275's. You are correct the Rels dissappear but they sound amazing in my setup. Im listening as i type this and do so pretty much everyday. Thank you for the upload.
GREAT GREAT breakdown on subs - took me years to acquire this conclusion ….And then there re Arendal subs- the best of both worlds- aLMOST REL like articulation and detail, AND GREAT slam and authority and dig deep but no boom !! Great construction and very price competitive and BEAUTIFUL finish. Arendal will please any discerning subwoofer buyer
So I keep hearing, I reached out to them for a sample recently, If I don't hear back soon I might just buy the damn thing but I will be a bit salty :).
I looked at the but way I over my budget for the model I wanted AND I wanted 2... I bought 2 Rel HT 1508s that were on sale for $999 with free returns. Granted the Arendal looks great! Enjoy!
@@whocares0503 I have the Arendal 1723 and 1961 here, so far I can say I like the sound of the HT range over the 1961 range so I think you made a good decision. I'm playing with the 1723 right now though, we'll see if it's larger 13.8" driver can impress or not...
@@marcusmcmurray77 well this is kind of like asking me why I chose to buy an Audi instead of a BMW, it's really personal taste mostly but for me it has the right balance of attributes and is easy to set up. That's really what it comes down to. It's never sounded bad no matter what speakers I pair it with. I keep the frequency at 9 oclock, the gain too, and the phase at 180, literally blends with everything and really easily.
This is the 3rd or 4th video of yours ive watched after randomly coming across your review on the jamo c19 because i saw it on sale for $150. But I have to say your candid honesty and critical thinking/open mindedness is such a breath of fresh air in this cesspool that is youtube. And honestly i normally wouldve thought i was more of the type of guys that wanted to see all the raw data and specs graphs etc because "why would i want to watch a video of some dude just talking ?" But i think your genuineness speaks volumes compared to any numbers ever could.. i dont typically comment on stuff but im just impressed with the authenticity
Hey chem, thank you for the kind words. I appreciate your candid feedback. I just try and keep it real. My real job pays the bills so the YT channel is just for fun :)
I spent hours integrating my SVS PB-1000 into my system. It can blend well into a system provided you're good at placement and have a good ear for the gain and phase adjustment.
That's awesome! I was able to integrate my PC-2000 fairly well also when I had that but a lot of this comes down to taste and "how much" integration you want with your bass. For your system its probably perfect for your taste. Not everyone likes maximum integration and some people prefer no integration at all. Personally I don't like the comfort of a Mercedes S560, i find it too comfortable, too cush, just not for me, likewise a BMW M3 is too uncomfortable, but my Audi S7, ah for me, fucking perfection! But the S560 owner would say my S7 is so stiff so it's really "what works for you" that everyone should be trying to get, and not what product is good/bad/etc...
This video was absolutely perfect, best explanation, simple and easy to understand. I just bought an SVS 1000 SB for my F501's a couple of months ago but as I analyzed movies and music the more I used it, the more I realize I have yet to set up a cut off I like or figure out room acoustics to a point of truly enjoying my new system. Could also be the cheap Yahama rxv 679 lol. A month later I bought the new Elac UBR62 Uni-Fi Reference with the Iotavx stack for my pc and holy shit wow!!! What a match those are with the sub. The SVS I have is very well placed for both the home theater AND pc somehow (10 minute crawl ftw) and does integrate to the point where it feels like it's just coming out of the speakers for my PC, I wish I could get the same results with the 501's but it's more than likely my horrible room acoustics have something to do with that. After watching this video though I think I really want to try the Rythmik L12, but I'm going to work on getting a better avr or processor/amp combo and fix that left corner bass problem this room has.
You nailed it…..!!! People get caught up in their feelings with this stuff. I have heard and seen I. So many forums, people arguing why did you buy a Rel, it’s too expensive and no bass, SVS is too boomy. We all hear differently and like different things from our system and your analogies were excellent. Enjoy what you have and don’t feel offended if someone doesn’t like your brand, remember you are not a brand, you are a person and quite simply, the manufacturer doesn’t really care about you, they only care about you buying the product and in terms you should only care about what the product does for you. I like Rel for two channel and SVS for Home Theater. The photography industry is as bad as this or worst when it comes to brand loyalty and the in fighting.
No, we really don't "all hear differently" (at best we have preferences for general bass and treble areas, but that's about it, literally HF and LF shelf filters lmao). Decades of psychoacoustics research proves it. Problem is, the HiFi world *is dominated by ignorance of acoustics and psychoacoustics* A proper sub needs a lot of integration work for it to not sound "boomy" because it has easily enough power to excite room modes. REL is too expensive and their subbass output is pathetic for the price. You probably use sophisticated automatic room correction for home theater and weren't bothered to do the work in your stereo setup. I don't blame you, but don't go saying the REL is a better sub because of your own negligence and ignorance.
@@Gamez4eveR You are right that we have preferences but don't forget as people get older or they abused their hearing, they are not able to hear higher frequencies as well as a younger person, so their hearing is different but I get your general premise. No ignorance here, I have owned many subs to include Emotiva, Vandersteen, Rel among countless others to include my current SVS SB4000. I have had at least 3 different Rel models and I know what Rel does well and what it doesn't. Yes, I used Auto Room correction and the basic subwoofer crawl before that. I have used Autocorrection for home theater, but I have used regular microphones and other programs to tell me if the Autocorrection was correct and I use a mic and software for two-channel, which is where my primary listening is done and I have a separate home theater and 2 channel system. Room correction helps to give you a visual perspective to match what you are hearing. This helps to quickly solve problems and along with Acoustic Room Treatment, this will solve the problem quickly and give you uniformity in your results. I no longer own Rel because I listen to all different types of music and I found that to get anywhere close to the SVS SB4000 that I would have to spend three to four times the price. The SVS SB4000 along with room measurements and their phone app allows you to adjust the sub to whatever you want it to be and I use the SVS SB4000 in a 2 channel setup and will be buying more in the future. The SVS SB4000 has functionality that you don't get from Rel and I use Mono-blocks with a single sub and on the Rel it can be done, but it isn't supported. So I stand by my statement, is Rel a good sub? yes, but is it the best sub given all factors, like price and overall performance, no. I have friends with Rel subs and their system sound amazing, but they put in the work to get it that way. I have heard Rel's upper-end line of subs, and they are good. We have the tendency to knock things both low end, mid or high end that we have never heard, which is cheating by reaching a result without doing the work. I have built up relationships with Audio Dealers to the point where I can take out equipment that most people will never even see, let alone use. I have been involved in audio since 1985 and have owned many systems and work in video and audio production, so I know audio. I rule nothing out, but I won't knock a good product just because of its price and I'm not afraid to call a bad product bad regardless of its price.
@@sidvicious3129 sure thing, luckily, our hearing in the lower frequencies isn't nearly as affected by aging :) I just know the rewards of a properly integrated essentially high end performance subwoofer (anechoic +-2dB 20 to 120Hz, inaudible group delay performance, peak output over 108dB SPL at 2m). When you hear that church air pressure you know you got real low end
@@Gamez4eveR I agree with you regarding the rewards, I spent two months between work getting things set up properly and when I play certain music, I know when to make very minor adjustments by use of the cellphone amp to achieve the desired goal, especially with Classical, Reggie, hip-hop, Jazz, Rock, and Heavy Metal. The goal is the output and natural bass output, so we agree.
@@sidvicious3129 I have missed the updated content of your original reply, but have read it now and it makes me happy that we seem to agree on this. I am much younger (25) but I've been obsessed with audio since I was 3 since my dad was obsessed with it at the time and took me to a variety of studios and hifi showrooms. My parents are also both professional musicians and I've been classically trained as an accordionist and pianist since I was 7, I also had a bit of an adventure as a high tenor in a semi professional classical choir, so I do honestly think it's not too much to say that I can at least somewhat trust my ear when it comes to sound. I went through a variety of differing views in my young life, and have ended up with strong preferences towards the combination of objective measurements, subjective impressions, and discovering how said measurements impact said impressions. I have a very humble setup consisting of well equalises Yamaha HS7 studio monitors - without EQ their tonality is harsh, luckily thanks to relatively good directivity, fixing on axis flaws translate off axis and we get an objective improvement at the listening position regardles of environment. Any more research that I do regarding this matter seems to only further bolster it so I'm quite confident in this. I myself have used them in a nearfield configuration for years and having recently switched to midfield, I myself have experienced, at least subjectively since I don't yet have a measuring mic, the EQ indeed seems to hold the same improvements in the vastly different layout (we're talking 90cm from tweeter to ear to nearly 3 metres). But that's the easy part. Now comes the hard part: I have a Monolith 12 THX subwoofer. Upgraded from a Yamaha HS8S. Compared to the Mono, the Yamaha was borderline plug and play - do a quick crawl, set it, you're done. But it didn't have the output and it didn't have any real extension below 35Hz. So I after literal weeks of obsessive research I landed on the Mono 12. Currently using EqAPO for EQ and a Behringer crossover, but that's suboptimal and I will upgrade to most likely a balanced MiniDSP Flex. I think I got it to sound "good" after a month of trial and error. I now believe that all music benefits from a true flat-down-to-20 subwoofer. Even lute recordings. That breathtaking pressure is very difficult to describe. I still have: a better dsp, a second subwoofer for better chances against physics and room treatment to get done with before I consider upgrading my monitors :D
Finally a reviewer who actually talks about the why more than the what, balance and taste, more than an outright winner, thank you, you are the most intelligent and informative reviewer of audio equipment I have found, keep it up... and manufacturers... take note of this guy!
Wow, those are a lot of kind words, thank you Paul, I just got asked this question so much I knew there had to be some better way of explaining it aside from methodically asking the person what they listen to, or what the rest of their system is, etc... Happy you enjoyed the vid!
I was driving myself nuts what to buy. Review after review I watchedand read. I have always been a precise kind of guy. By definition the Rel seemed to be my choice, you and Spare Change swayed me, Rel was my choice. Adorama had the Rel HT 1508 Predators at $999.00 I stretched my wallet and bought 2. Should I not be happy I can return them for free. To get total slam and accuracy where they disappear is above my budget. I think I chose wisely after all the reading. I just installed them so time will tell... I have been in the audio game since the 70's and we both know hype isn't everything. I always enjoy what I buy or just return it. Thanks for the honest thoughts. Btw I owned 1969-73 Mustang Mach 1s... :-) 😀
Fantastic video! I love my JL Audio subs. I loved the REL's too. You're right, I wanted a little bit more slam while still being articulate. Maybe in the coming years, I will be switching camps.
@@NemoPropaganda Oh don't worry, I'm done building my first system. Now I'm going to work on my 2nd system which will be mid tier vs budget-ish for my first one.
Me too bro, i’m in California so we get screwed pretty hard on square footage. Homes in my city are like $750k and 1800sqft 😭😭. Over 2000 is usually $1m.
Just stopping by to say your videos are the shit. Great job. Always listening while doing boring ass work on my computer and your take / comments are always on point. Keep up the great work man.
Amazingly helpful reviews and responses to my tedious questions. I ended up going with dual SVS SB-3000. Very difficult decision, as REL and Rythmik are absolutely amazing. My living room system is 5.2, and dominated by kids movies. If it were a music only 2.1, I would have likely gone REL or Rythmik. That, and a seller made me a great offer on the mint pair. I'm happy with the upgrade (which I find substantially better sounding than my older gen SVS, and highly tuneable through the app). I think any option would have worked well.
Thanks for this video and for breaking down the differences this way. I don’t have all the scientific knowledge on speakers, etc but just a guy who wants to build a great sounding setup. It really helped me get a better understanding on the differences between these brands and also what to look for in a subwoofer in general. I’m definitely subscribing to this channel and making it one of my go to sources for reviews and info!
Love your approach. It speaks to my perspective. I’m experiential by nature, but also ADHD and OCD. Ultimately, I seek the experience. I love the car metaphor. I’ve driven modern phenomenons (2015 Porsche Cayman S) and other tuned vehicles with amazing capabilities. However, I get greater joy from driving my 1970 Volvo 1800E (with suspension upgrades). My system is music centric. Naim XS3 amp, Rega P6 with Ania MC cartridge trurntable, Lounge Copla MC preamp, Zu Druid IV-13 (Druid V update) speakers. In my quest to fill the bottom end, I’m looking at REL 9/7/5 vs SVS 3000. Going REL to start.
Your explanation about preferences is spot on! Just a different taste! I've posted a vid on youtube with a Rel T9i. Sold him, nut now thinking of adding a sub again.
Very interesting. I am hesitating between the T9i, the SVS SB 3000 and the B&W DB4S. My main interest is musical content. So for you the Rel would be the best for this purpose ? Have you been able to compare it with the DB4S ? Thanks !
@@alantranouez2815 I think all the subs I mentioned are great for music, it just depends what you're looking for. I have not heard the DB4S as it's a little too expensive imo. I would rather have the REL T9i or SB3000 for that price and put the extra money in my pocket. The SB3000 is as much bass as you can get from that size and price point and it's a damn tight/quick subwoofer too. SVS has a generous in home trial as does REL, I'd flip a coin and order from one of them and see how you like it :). Also how big is your room? If it's big the SB3000 has nearly triple the power of the T9i so that's important to keep in mind. If your room is small to medium the T9i should be good and the SB3000 might be overkill and so on... There are a million reasons that make this ultra user specific.
I haven't had a car for 10 years. But I still miss my W7 setup. I had Diamond Hex fronts and DLS 7x10s rear.. it was phenomenal. I have 2 x JL Audio Fathom 12s in my music studio though.. so that makes up for it a little!
I went from SVS which were great subwoofers, had alot of fun with them to REL, however I will never buy another SVS subwoofer as long as there are subwoofers like REL around. They are Just two different sounding subwoofers and one brand floats my boat more than the other.
@@rckrckrckrck Yeah I'm digging the Rythmik sound so far, it really is odd with all the experience I have I literally cannot tell bass from the speakers vs bass from the sub, it just sounds like it's all coming from the same place.
Just purchased a couple of Rel t7i subs a couple of days ago, upgrading from a kef ls50 with dual tzero setup to a ls50 and dual t7i setup, can't wait until they arive!
Thanks for the honest opinion, my svs sb1000 sucks in 2 channel but my svs pb1000's are great in home theater. Now the hunt restarts for a "musical" 2 channel subwoofer and I was leaning to the Rel for just what you state... IT'S ALL MADNESS!!!
Hey Tim, I wouldn't say SVS sucks with music, it just really depends on your taste, I was able to get great results with the SB1000-Pro in a music system but they do have a lot of fine grain controls so it can certainly be challenging, some people love the fine grain controls for others it's too much as 1 wrong setting can mess up the whole presentation. REL takes the opposite approach and only gives you 3 things to adjust making setup much more foolproof. A lot of people love the REL approach and then some people want more fine grain control so one brand can never win over everyone but it sounds like you might be happier with something like a T7X or HT1205.
@Tim P, you can’t go wrong with the HT/1205 for double duty. If your budget allows take a look at the Serie S line. That’s what I’m upgrading to this summer.
Love your reviews. You keep it all the way 100 and you're great with the analogies. Thank you for what you do and keep up the good work. Also love the tactful use of curse words !!!
I appreciate the hell out of this comment, honestly sometimes when I get through a whole video and realize I didn't swear a single time I'm kind of bummed lol.
I've got both. SVS SB3000 connected to the LFE channel. A REL T7X connected to the center channel. They work really well together. The REL is a recent addition and it made a noticeable difference.
@@camilofajardo1453 the Svs is connected to the LFE channel. The REL is wired to the center speaker. Svs moves more air. I noticed more slam with anything out of the center speaker.
Thank you Pcham! I will cover this topic a little more in the upcoming REL T9X video coming this week, I've discovered the easiest way to break it down is really spectrum in which we have SQ subwoofers on one end and SPL subwoofers on another end. All subs fall somewhere on that spectrum. With that in mind I hope to be able to help everyone find the subwoofer that is correct for them :).
REL subs have made me change my mind about what I’m looking for in a sub 👉🏾 nuanced, subtle, speedy and detailed bass. Plenty of great subs available for different preferences.
Exactly, there is no right or wrong, I really think I might experiment with a ported sub next. I know many will cry blasphemy but I have to try it again.
@@NemoPropaganda oh wow! It’s sad that the comment section gets so toxic sometimes. We should all just be enjoying this hobby and learn from each other’s experiences.
Im addicted to bass, especially the kind that makes my eyesight get blury. So it was SVS for me. The tunability of SVS can make them kittens or lions. Win win. Great Video!
Awesome, that's a great little guy, just don't expect earth shattering sub 30hz bass. It'll more give you overall fullness of sound, that's it's magic.
Congrats. For me, I compared the 2x L12 with 2x t5i. I liked the Rythmik a little better than the RELs. Also, downfiring subs in my house don't work very well.
@@NemoPropaganda Pretty well actually. I was trying to compare subwoofers not based on their woofer size but moreso on price. 8" would have been fine for this room, and the RELs sounded great (on their sides and not down firing) in my room.
Here on youtube and on the internet in general, you helped me the most with my decision of which brand I spend my money on for my first subwoofer. You seem authentic and honest - that's why I take your word and opinion. It's no fun to browse audio forums where they compare and argue upon spec sheets and make up some bs about other companies. My system will be soon completed and I'm confident that it will satisfy my needs and expectations.
hey thank you bro, that's pretty much my goal. On my own journey I found myself constantly obsessing over gear to the point I was fear locked and couldn't make a decision. It was starting to take the fun out of things so I made this channel to try and help people avoid that constant obsessive part of the hobby. If you're in the free discord please post some updates on how it all goes!
This was awesome. The hot girl analogy was just perfect! I am looking for a new sub and after hearing this I might lean towards Rythmik. If they can integrate better than SVS. A sub that disappears and still does the job is really what I am looking for. Different taste is one of the things I like with this hobby but also what I hate the most. Everyone experience stuff different. Like I might really like the cheaper speaker in a series compared to the upper models and sometimes I come across someone who just tells me that I am wrong. And states the upper models is better, more technical, better materials etc. When people tells other people their opinion or experience is wrong because something else is technical superior. That is by far the thing I hate most with this hobby. You might not agree with other peoples experience but don't tell them they are wrong because there is no wrong and right in this, imo.
100% agree. I actually prefer cheaper stuff very often in life. Food is a great example, yes an $80 steak taste great BUT I will be more happy and enjoy an $8 bowl of Pho :), clothes too, the T-Shirts you guys see me wearing it's $8 lol but it fits me nicely. I'm not always trying to be cheap of course but sometimes I like what I like and that's all that matters.
@@NemoPropaganda Totally agree about the food. I can order a fine steak at a restaurant but in general I prefer the cheaper cuts from pork and beef. I rarely buy fine meat at home. Not to be cheap but I like the taste better in most cheaper cuts. They are more fatty and juicy, hehe. 😋 A bowl of Pho is great any time of the week. Got to buy some tomorrow now that you mentioned it. 👍😁
@@alambe7275 Is it really both worlds...I mean I am reading many reviews regarding Arendal being much more musical than SVS but lacks the SVS-slam so to speak.
Great analogy! I agree with you and I have been in both camps over the years. I have had many subwoofer over the years including the Infinity Servo Statik 50 years ago, 24 inch Hartley in a custom enclosure, M&K, Polk and probably some I forgot. I lean more to the REL camp these days as I am more of a music listener and I prefer ribbon speakers, hence I want a fast subwoofer that integrates well and disappears into my system. I think many listeners today are more into home theater and are looking for greater slam. P.S. Nothing wrong with that.. your taste your money👍
I have, of course my examples are generalizations like most of the m3 cars have sharp steering but a standard 5 series or newer 3 series not so much. 911 GTS is absolutely amazing, I drove my friends 2017 in the stunning miami blue and loved that. We have a free discord btw if you want to hop in: discord.gg/nemopropaganda
Nemo, spot on as usual, couldn’t have said it better myself. Having owned SVS since late 90s I’ve also graduated to what real, articulate clean bass that Rythmik provides. Seamless integration with mains give the illusion the hidden speakers are much bigger than in reality. Keep on doing what you do brother, much love.
@@josealfredfernandes I got 6 messages from you today in my email, you're gonna have to join the free discord if you want to communicate that often. RU-vid comments isn't really convenient for me for extended conversations. Link is in all the newer videos.
Hey Vinayak, no absolutely not! SVS actually makes incredibly robust & rigid cabinets and none of them have any resonance that I have heard, not even their most affordable models. It essentially comes down to moving mass and we can see this in car audio too, we have brands like Focal & Morel that make these light weight subwoofers that play incredibly clean but they can't handle too much power (unless you spend big money). Then we have brands like Digital Design that have a moving mass often times triple that of Focal & Morel but they are capable of extreme SPL but lose that lightness that adds a certain character to the sound. It's the same with speakers, a lot of people just don't notice it. Light weight drivers just sound different than heavier drivers.
Thank u for the breakdown & comparisons! I'm one of those "I want the sub to disappear" guys - I have a SVS & the gain is dialed in pretty low bcause all I wanted was a tad more bottom added to my stand mount speakers. Now I'm wondering if switching to a Rel or Rythmik would even be worthwhile given the low sub volume I like. Thoughts??🤔
Sooooo, I would say no! My reason for saying no is it sounds like you're happy with what you have and how it's setup. Also I have setup subs in a similar way in the past and I do feel that if you keep the gain really low you can integrate most subs well enough :).
@Thomas, the short answer is yes! I own the HT/1205 mated to a pair of Martin Logan Aerius i. I can tell you from experience that sonically, it "disappears." It's freaking awesome! Interestingly, Nemo's review of the HT/1205, along with a few exchanged messages, influenced my decision. This year I am updating several components in my system, and I'm going to upgrade to two Series S. I'm still deciding between the S/510 and the S/812. Go for it! Oh, I highly recommend dual subs. If it doesn't fit your budget, that's okay. After having the one HT/1205, and it's adequate, I see the value of having two.
@@caballerosuave Pourtant le Ht1205 est plus orienté home cinéma, à cause de son caisson qui n'est pas clos. Après, le S/812 ne joue pas dans la cour. Environ 3 fois le prix du Ht. Mais parait-il qu'il excelle en hifi.
Damn good explanation and it’s very helpful to give people out there perspectives when choosing subs . I have 3 REL subs and I really appreciate the integration it gives to my watching experiences. Great job .. I am now a subscriber to your channel . Cheers
I just got a SB-2000 pro to go with my Heresy IV's. Going with the sealed design seemed like a good middle ground. They can get in your face for home theatre and music with slamming bass while still being plenty articulate for my taste. I also looked at the REL HT line, and I expect I would have been happy either way.
Hey Greg, that's a fair statement for sure. I think 90% of people will be happy either way. These difference are generally only going to show up when doing a direct comparison but at the end of the day I truly believe this hobby is more like food and personal taste is the biggest factor.
I took your advice on the REL for my home theater. When I watch a movie I am more interested in hearing a song played in the movie sounding like my two channel system in my listening room more than feeling the explosion in my bones.
I definitely agree to that, however, can't I have both explosion as the director intended and the music as the artist intended, or am I asking too much?
Reminds me of one channel that compared Rels and SVS subs from the same category of price. SVS had 3 times more power in terms pf watts and was a bigger woofer but Rel could get to much higher desibels without distorting. Specs are overrated these days especially when looking at RELs!
I'd like to be driven in a Mercedes, but when I drive, I like BMW (or Audi). On subs, I like it when it kicks and feel it in my stomach for like 5 minutes. But in general, I like it when it's complementary and really integrated. Rel does a really good job at it
Thanks for explaining. My personal taste would be to have a 2 channel system that has a sub that blends into the system and a home theatre system that thumps and wows. I did start with the SVS PB16 Ultra to do both and eventually will get a smaller 12in Rel for 2 channel audio
@@NemoPropaganda I was surprised too. It certainly doesn’t blend into a room either. It is a challenge to match it with the speakers but I do love the app on my phone. Just have to constantly be willing to tweak it depending on what’s playing.
@@chrishargreaves6549 i'm not surprised, its so large it's going to have a hard time keeping up with smaller speakers but for theater it's low end authority is absolutely amazing! I'd try plugging 2 of the ports when listening to music (make the change in the app also of course so the sub knows its in 1 port mode) that will help tighten things up for music.
I've never commented on any video ever, but you explanation, analysis, & honesty made start right now! Love the explanation & honesty. I'm between the two types & didn't really know why you would go rel/JL or svs proved. I think closed & detail will be better for my small roo Near field, dynaudio special 40s PL evo 400 computer set up. Cheers!
ok so little update here. I found svs are sounding the same no matter what material i am playing. They have also big attack and it was fooling me by the beginning. Now i have rythmiks and ... there is no comparision i would not take svs for free .. rythmik sounds like speaker, svs like hammer.
I think they do that because the LFE channel can contain data up to 120hz although I'm not sure modern mixes do that. I have a F113 and I have my processor crossover set at 65hz but I leave the low pass on the sub at 120. If you lower that low pass filter then that data will not be sent to any speakers.
Seems like in order to get maximum integration with an SVS sub you might want to turn it down a little, pull it from the wall or corner and set the proper crossover/ low pass filter and slope. Then it will integrate. You can’t be expected to buy it, plug it in and just start hearing magic without some work and thought. Your analogy between cars was interesting but has less to do with subwoofers than anything I can presently think of. Sound reproduction is all about trying to recreate the actual sound not feeling the feedback from a steering system with too much or too little oversteer. There are rules when trying to incorporate a sub in high quality music reproduction. If you break all the rules you end up with boomy sound, no sound or uneven sound instead of a well integrated lower end that fills the missing octaves that we all desire. You can’t just buy a sub, hook it up and throw it anywhere you want and expect to hear music reproduced. It takes a little know how and some common sense. Not to mention tweaking and a proper source.
You’re welcome to disagree with me all you like as long as you don’t expect me to care… you do the hobby how you like, I’ll keep doing it how I like, and we’ll both keep having a good time.
I got 7.1 system fronts are Dali Oberon 9. So which one of these cover up both movies and music better? 50%movies 50%blues/rock/classical music. Rel s812 or SVS sb4000? ty
Love the analogy never seen A channel with such a brilliant analogy very informative. I have dual sb3000! Worked at Best Buy for 7 years and I agree 100%. I almost bought the B&W Sub to go with my B&W speakers and I just opted for more aggressive bass. BUT in the future I do agree I will probably switch as I age 😂.
I really enjoy your honest reviews. Thank you. I bought two SVS 1000 Pros for my 2 channel high fidelity system. They integrate so well I have to sometimes check to be sure they are on. When the program calls for low-end, they deliver in a seemless way thanks to the excellent adjustability. For me, these are great. Maybe if I heard an SQ subwoofer in direct comparison I might notice, but I'm happy with the 1000 Pros.
integration is like other aspects of sound, how much is enough to satisfy can vary from person to person so your needs for integration could be perfect for the SB1000 pro which is a sub that does integrate fairly well, it's my favorite SVS sub!
@@NemoPropaganda I know you have reviewed a lot of subs, and your review of the SVS SB1000 pro was the primary inspiration for me getting them! Thank you.
Hi Jim, that's awesome, you might have speakers that pair super well with them. Just curious do you happen to have a larger room? I've always felt the SB3000 shined brightest when it was cranking in a larger room.
Some very good analogies in there,nice explanation video. Personally I went for an SVS sb4000 and couldn't be happier,perfect sub for me. Subscribed now and look forward to your future videos
Hey thank's John! The SB4000 is a beast! I came very close to buying one but after having 3 SVS subs I thought I should give other brands some attention lol. That app is seriously awesome! I do wish there was an option to simplify it though kind of like turn off the features you don't want to adjust for example. It would keep an OCD punk like me from constantly messing around with settings :)
hi - I don't understand your video very well because I'm French. what would you recommend for a small room with Qacoustics concept 20. Room = 4m x 3,5m = 13ft x 11,5ft. Qacoustics concept 20 driver = 12,5 cm = 5 inches. (64 Hz +/- ? db). It's my first subwoofer. Music only (2 channels). My budget 600€. In France no rythmik, JL Audio ... subwoofers. We have : SVS SB1000 pro (599€), Rel Tzero (575€), B&W ASW608 (499€), Qacoustics 3070S (569€) ... for a tight, quick and articulate bass. thanks.
Hello brother Jeff, welcome to the channel. If I were you I would get the REL HT1003. It's a tiny bit outside your budget but it will give you more output & extension than tzero or asw608 while still offering up good fidelity. The SB1000 Pro is fantastic also and will give even more extension and output but will have a bit less fidelity than the HT1003.
@@NemoPropaganda thanks (In france Jeff = Jef = Jean-François). I'm surprised HT1003 offers more fidelity than svs sb1000. it's a HT sub. It's a bit too expensive for me (749€). very few reviews here. I'm gonna think about it. connection mono RCA ? otherwisee B&W ASW610 (649€) ? good fidelity ?
@@jeffz4911 oh that's cool, I didn't know Jeff/Jean was similar in France, Names are so interesting to me. Like here if someone's name is Bob it's usually short for Robert, that doesn't make any sense though lol. Okay so yes the HT1003 is their theater model but it's still a REL subwoofer so it's still excellent overall. As far as the B&W ASW range they sound very good but my big problem with them is they lack power, they only have about 100watts RMS and in desperate need of an update so they can't play very loud. If you don't listen too loud like 80dB max in a small room then I think you will be happy with the ASW range but I would really try to buy a used one on ebay as the new price is too much in my opinion.
What an honest, down to earth and well informed video. And what a great analogy! Definitely lady #2 (which describes my wife to a tee ❤️). So Rel for me 🙏🏼
Great video! Well said about keeping this hobby fun! We should be thankful there are several great brands at different price points, meeting different needs! There's never been a better time to enjoy hi-fi and home theater!
Dude I am so glad you made this video. I know this is old, but I just pulled the trigger on a FV18 Rythmik to keep up with my 1977 Klipsch La Scalas in a dual purpose HT 2.1/music setup. And what you said about them is freaking exactly what I was hoping. Something that blends beautifully, that fills in that sub 60hz zone effortlessly, and is everywhere, but nowhere at the same time. I was obviously already excited, but now it is going to be torture until this subwoofer comes in.
@@NemoPropaganda Awesome! Will do. Not an ideal sound space I have, but the next house will have a dedicated HT/listening room where I can do more sound treatment and such. I needed this big boy to attempt to fill this living room which opens into the kitchen and a hallway. Again not ideal, but I am sure this baby will fill it nicely if I can place it in a solid spot for my primary listening position.
Thanks for the honest review. With over 50 years as an audiophile I have become tired of the use of anthropomorphism in attempts to describe audio gear. But I did appreciate your attempt. As least you did not stoop to the one thing I find worse than fingernails across a chalkboard, that is the worn out phrase used by some reviewers in almost every review “punches above its weight”. So thanks also for that.😊
Hey Score, thank you for the kind words!! I've reviewed many items, I have yet to find more than a couple of products that I felt were priced lower than their performance so we're on the same page there! And honestly the few that "punched above their weight" had a caveat that made the price make sense. A shortcoming here or there that was easy to overlook. Polk Reserve for exmample sounds amazing, but you can hear the price in the tweeter, its treble will not outperform anything more expensive, but its midrange might, it's all give and take :).
@@NemoPropaganda your videos are simple, honest, Intuitive and bang on. I just bought a SVS SB 3000 and it will be shipped tomorrow. Was struggling with the ported PB3000 size (Huge). So hope the SB can give me a nice punch
@@kazuto1905 oh dude, you'll be good, unless your room is ginormous the SB3000 is insanely capable of serious output. I owned one for a little over a year and IMO it's just about as much bass as you can have in that form factor without spending a crazy amount more money. It likes to be played loud and will reward you with lots of output with really good speed.
Dam.. not a lot of real people out there in this audio space. Most youtube are only shilling every product to get affiliate rewards. Thanks for being real and not caring if people don't like your opinion, subscribed!
Thank you Simon, I'm a little different in that I'm not revieweing gear for a living and instead choose to keep my hobbies & career separate but I don't begreduge anyone who makes a career out of it.
Hi bro!!! Im a 50% movie & 50% audio enthusiast... I'm little confused between rel 1205 n rythmik f12... I'm planning to get a pair... Please do help me with these subs.... 2 x 1205 or 2 x F12?
Hi E, so just to be clear I LOVE the HT-1205 but the F12 is on another level with respect to output, extension, and sound quality. It beats the 1205 across the board and it should considering it is a bit larger and costs more.
Great video. We have been going down the rabbit hole of reading opiniated reviews & forums without any point of reference. It has been confusing. If only we could spend a week with each woofer it would become very easy. Alas, one has to do some online research and reading. And what a wave of polarized opinion we encountered. This video gives some idea of the different perspectives and really helped clarify things. So, thanks for your candour and clarity of thought.
hey rope if you want to join the free discord we can probably help you pick something, we'd just need to know your intended use, budget, pair or single, size limitations, etc.... Here is the discord link: discord.gg/3PkFQf4y6Z
This is a case of different not better. 1 PB-2000 will play cleaner, extended lower, and have more of that theater style rumble. 2 RSL 10s will will still have great rumble, it just won't extend as low and instead you'll have more tactile kick style bass. If you're like me and you don't care for tactile kick style bass go for the PB2000, if you can appreciate tactile bass pick the RSL, it still extends plenty low and the pair will have tons of output. Lastly the RSL while ported can be a great music performer while the PB would be more "fun" style bass for music and not the most accurate or tight but if you listen to rap or edm that could be super cool too. So yeah, as you can see it really is a case of different not better.
I got a real t7i used on offer up for 600. It’s so Fucken sweet. Using the high level input it sounds so seemless. It’s fun messing with the dials depending on the album lm playing. It knows how to act depending on the genre. I got it to go with the klh model 5’s . It really rounded out the experience. Like a nice rug that ties the room together
