I remember Ichiro mentioning in his retirement speech, how baseball is becoming a braindead sport. While he avoided clarifying exactly what the "trend" was, he lamented on how "baseball used to require intelligence and tenacity", and "hoped Japanese baseball didn't follow this American trend", and "stayed the intelligent, clever game it always was." Fast forward to today, and we now know that what he meant was tipping pitches using cameras, hitting trash cans - braindead hitting, reacting to a coach or buzzer, rather than coercing pitchers to throw a certain pitch. On watching this video, I think the velocity surpassing most hitter's reaction times may be forcing this trend of using technology to relay incoming pitches to hitters.
1) He threw low 90s and got a lot of K’s 2) Using him as an example is like telling someone that Michael Jordan got cut from His basketball team 3) Maddux*
Maddux wasn't nearly as much of a soft tosser as people think. Still a control freak, but accurate radar guns weren't available when he was around, and I imagine he was topping out at 93-94 at his peak, which back then was harder than it is now. It was just never his calling card, which is why he was still so good. There's not many guys that can survive steep velo drops, especially nowadays and how hitters are programmed. Greg Maddux type pitchers just aren't all that common. Very few like him before or after him. Had 6-7 pitches, could throw the ball where he wanted, and make the ball do what he wanted. Really hard to ask pitchers to be like that. If it was easier I guarantee there'd be less of those stock fastball/slider guys that sit 95 and a lot more command artists. So Maddux was really a unicorn more than anything
this is very high quality production. you’d expect a guy with a platform like 50x larger to have this good of a video, keep it up i believe you’ll go far
I don't think velo itself is the thing that get pitcher injured but the amount of effort put into the pitch (example Tim Lincecum trying his hardest to throw 97-98 got him injured but then there's Blake Treinen who throws a sinker at 98 with little effort and he has been healthy)
its a mixture of biology, god given strength and durability, diet, form, etc. Who knows who can throw a fast or high curving pitch for long periods at the major league level, until they do it. Nobody. Bigger bones usually seem to help, as does a higher nitrogen based muscle content, as Midwestern and Texan pitchers have typically displayed at higher levels on average
Its not just velocity, its the insane spin rates pitchers are getting today. The movement on these pitches today is sickening. If a pitcher is not getting good spin rate today they are going to get absolutely shelled.
If a pitcher doesn’t have good spin rate they won’t make it past high-A. The game has such a newfound and deep understanding of how to maximize spin rates, and changes to improve skill
I love seeing all of the "starting throwers" on my team throwing as hard as they can to try and strike everyone out, and not being able to make it past 5 innings because they've already thrown 100 pitches.
Most pitchers may have more sound mechanics but this is essentially what Tim Lincecum did, and for a while he was the best pitcher in baseball...until his arm absolutely fell apart after only 4 full seasons. In physics force is force. If your generating 100 mph velocity, the force neccesary to get there is in your arm no matter how 'smooth' the mechanics are the amount of torque your putting on your arm never really changes for each 100 mph pitch. You can't do that that many times and expect your arm to stay intact. Nolan Ryan is an outlier that may as well gotten lucky he didn't obliterate his arm.
Ryan was definitely a freak in the best way lol. He threw consistently hard for 26 years, but you can't count on guys having the luck that Nolan had in his natural durability.
Force is force, but the entire motion is just the use of muscles and tendons. If everything recovers properly, there isn’t an issue. The issue is recovery. We need to revolutionize the way we care for players. We know more and more than ever, and we actually have the technology to evaluate throwing readiness
Nolan Ryan actually had a partial tear of his UCL in September of 1988. He shut it down until spring training when the ligament was scarred over and protected it. He pitched with that tear for the rest of his career.
I do agree mostly, but Lincecum's main downfall was his degenerative hips. With his mechanics, while they were a work of art and generated so much torque for a guy his size, he leaned a lot on generating power from his hips. You're still right though. Worked way to much early and didn't last. Much like King Felix. His 2 seam/4 seam velo dropped 7 mph from his first CY year to his last year in the bigs. Since he was tiny for a power pitcher I assume it came more from his lower half, also don't remember any arm injuries from him. Could've been a combo of the two who knows
I watched Max Scherzer as a Nats fan - he was an Iron Man and threw a lot of innings. His fastball, that he throws the majority of the time, has had a velocity sitting around 94MPH his entire career. He came into the All Star game one year and threw one for 100MPH - just to remind everyone that he *could* be throwing that fast. Having a few guys (even non-elite) who eat up innings used to be far more valuable, even if it meant an extra run or two, and I think the approach can still work. Too many financial disasters...nobody wants to tune in to games with a bunch of no-name pitchers because everyone is on the IL.
Mark Buehrle is my favorite pitcher ever because he played fast and he didn’t pitch hard. 88mph average fastball, never injured. You knew he’d play every 5 games. Managed to accumulate 60 war, 5 all stars, 5 gold gloves, a World Series, perfect game, and no hitter. Average of 221IP per season. Maybe the most consistent performer ever.
I think limiting the number of pitchers on a roster would help. With less bullpen to fall back on, pitchers will be forced to lower their intensity and pitch at lower speeds for longer rather than giving maximum effort on every pitch. Lower velocity would also put an even heavier emphasis on location and sequencing making pitching more skillful. On another note, I'm interested to hear feedback from other baseball fans about deadening the ball a bit. Personally, I find balls in play to be much more entertaining than HRs and SOs. Obviously a HR has the wow factor but it's a break in tension rather than building upon it like a base hit does. The most fun innings aren't solo homers but several hits strung together by a lineup, great plays by the defense, quick and clever base running, things that build tension. I think lowering velo and deadening the ball would reserve HRs for true power hitters again and encourage a more contact oriented approach for those who aren't as strong. This would increase hits, balls in play, lower SOs, make HRs more rare and therefore special thereby bringing more fun to baseball. Thoughts?
No, it would just increase use of “taxi squads”. Limiting pitchers is one of the worst ideas I’ve heard. Players will go all out to try and make the most money they can, because the results is what influences their pay.
@@pohorex6834 The only thing that matters is the number of pitchers available, regardless of what organizational term they fall under. If the number of pitchers is lower, the pitchers will pitch with lower intensity. Also you're implying that the "taxi squad" rules couldn't be reworked. There's no reason to assume that a theoretical change couldn't work as a result of being in conflict with existing rules because those can be changed too.
Additionally, regarding velocity, it is partly a matter of physics. Modern pitching mechanics are similar to a trebuchet, the longer the arm and motion the higher velocity is possible. This is also why larger pitchers seem to able throw hard easier.
@@CheeseDizzle The problem with moving the mound further back is it that while it gives the hitters more time to react, it won't change how much effort the pitchers use when throwing and it will also give breaking pitches more time to move. So while the hitters gain reaction time, the pitches have more movement. I'm not sure if that would increase or decrease offense but it definitely wouldn't reduce stress on pitchers' arms.
Fantastic work so far with this channel. I don’t hand out compliments when they aren’t deserved. Don’t stop pumping these videos out. Your channel will blow up before long.
You definitely should’ve mentioned the foreign substance problem as it is definitely much more impactful or the K percentage increasing then just the velocity increase
While batting averages have gone down I was looking at year over year league wide OPS numbers. The seem to be highest during the steroid era of the 90’s through early 2000’s. However I then compared the last 10 years to years pre-1990 and they are noticeably higher now than they were before the steroid era. The game is seeing more offensive production now than it has for the majority of its history. So hitters do seem to be adjusting. They’re just taking a different approach. I do think MLB balls are definitely juiced today compared to years past as well. Various experiments have shown significantly higher exit velocities on MLB balls vs other baseballs. But you’d really have to get your hands on some much older MLB balls to make the comparison to the current ones. And even then after years of sitting and degrading you couldn’t properly compare the old balls to newly manufactured balls.
Well, I remember when pitchers like Catfish Hunter just changed speeds and painted the corners with an 88 mph fastball, and managed to throw a perfect game. Gregg Maddox was pretty successful, not sure if he ever threw a fastball in the 90's.
@@averyfabian9936 True, his fastball touched 93 mph in his early years, but his velocity steadily declined throughout his career, and was never his principal focus as a pitcher. By the end of his career, his fastball averaged less than 86 mph. His four seam fastball was usually around 88 MPH.
@@hvymettle that's definitely true that he was that type of pitcher when he was older, but if he was like that at the beginning of his career, he would probably have never made it to the mlb
@breadandcircuses8127 easy. They show higher readings than what the pitch actually is. They measure pitchers as soon as the ball is released as opposed to measuring it as it crosses the plate - as in what the hitter actually sees the pitch as. For decades they measured velocity this way as it made more sense. Now they do it differently ever since velocity really became a selling point. Technically this isn’t a “lie” but it’s a sneaky way of fudging the numbers to sell the product.
What's up Average Baseball? This is good content. Question: Could the high injury rate among pitchers have anything to do with the fact that the pitch-clock removes those extra 10 or seconds of rest that went into the game prior to 2023?
I can see people touching 113, but never sitting. I think the highest velo someone will sit will be around 106-107. We have Joyce and Duran throwing consistently at the low 100s, Joyce sits 101-102, Duran touching 104 a lot. These 9th graders who throw 90 nowadays will be this next generation.
The person who throws 110 at some point will probably break their arm doing it, unless it’s reinforced with titanium which would decrease the mechanical fluidity of muscles joints and ligaments, in my opinion
Throwing 113mph would require ~16% more kinetic energy from the pitchers arm compared to throwing 105mph. Kinetic energy is effected by velocity^2 so every extra mph takes an exponentially greater amount of energy through the pitchers arm to make it happen. It’s probably never going to happen.
@@jellyfishgamestudios”much higher spin rates” lol. Compared to what?? They didn’t start measuring this nerdy stuff until very recently. God this generation is so full of 💩.
It’ll be interesting to see what starts happening to pitcher contracts. If this trend continues, teams may be less likely to dish out massive contracts for pitchers because the injury risk is going to be so much higher.
Low 90mph will still be effective with location, movement and velocity changes. A 2+4 seam, cutter, changeup, and curve ranging between 75-95. And i think the injury problem has more to do with the emphasis on the various sliders. The velocity pushing does not help though.
Naw sliders are actually not that bad for your arm when thrown properly. The big issue is that kids throw harder younger. You have some guys who have been able to touch 99+ well before they even hit a minor league affiliate. And since velo seems to be the single most important thing in a scouts eye, they don’t care if you will get hurt, they will use you until the wheels fall off. And that’s the sad reality of baseball now.
@@rowdyghost4713 It seems that in High School the under 18--19 kids are hitting this level of speed going 99 mph + and yes the teams will just use you becuse of all the talent out there that this is why players now have to retire as pitchers before age 25 in MLB The problem is the, super high over 100 mph Fastball, then Fastball Slider or Curve Fastball being pushed as the only other 2 pitches used in Baseball currently besides the over 100 mph Fastball. This is why an amazing left hand pitcher I graduated with never made it out of the lower ranks of the Minors in my town Pierre (Pier) South Dakota who graduated in 2007 with me. He was an 80--85 mph hitter but had this Curveball Slider that few could hit and was rarely injured. The reason he did not get further into the Minor leagues was the 2010 was the start of the Speed Pitching only those above 90 mph for every type of pitch that has only increased year after year so that now other pitches like a Curveball or Slider must be pitched at 95+ mph or about 90--95% of a Max Fastball.
Having a diverse arsenal is obviously an effective way to attack hitters. But the rest of your comment is just wrong. Breaking pitches (curveballs, sliders, sweepers, etc) put less stress on the arm than fastballs when thrown correctly. As for throwing a lot at a young age, you need to throw to build arm strength and learn efficient movement patterns. I do agree 11-14 year old kids shouldn’t be throwing hundreds of pitches in a tournament. But kids should be throwing at varying intensities throughout a week of training
I'd add that when Joey Gallo doesn't hit a homerun he also walks quite a lot. Walk rate and a batters plate discipline ( ability recognize strikes from balls,) has become more important too. The poster boy for that trend is Juan Soto who literally shuffles and stares down the pitcher when he takes a difficult pitch to not swing at. Soto's antics aside, hitters being more selective also isn't going to be as exciting, at least for the casual fan.
This is why I find it increasingly hard to watch games. Games have become two dimensional with focus on strikeouts and home runs. The fact that players like Kyle Schawarber and Joey Gallo can find themselves in the starting lineup of a major league team is a serious indictment of how messed up the game has become.
Andrez munoz is a perfect example of how having the ability to throw fast isnt the most affective. He has an unbelievable fast ball that can hit 103, but he throws his slider 70 percent of the time because its abudently more effective.
I think they need to move the mound back at least 1.5 ft. to 64 ft. and lower it a few inches (probably like 1 to 2 inches). Modern pitching mechanics are similar to a trebuchet, the longer the arm and motion the higher velocity is possible. This is also why larger pitchers seem to able throw hard easier.
Here's a weird idea, anything past 99.9 is a ball but make the zone bigger, not like anything crazy huge but just enough to offset the advantage it gives to hitters
I actually think this is the true root cause behind the baseball is boring attitudes that some people have. While it doesn’t bother me, I can see why some people would be less interested in seeing the three true outcomes. IMO, they should try deadening the ball and/or lowering the seems to make it easier to make contact but harder to hit it out. Maybe they could even try raising the mound again. They did try moving the mound back, but that was a disaster because the breaking pitches moved too much. Love or hate the pitch clock, I think it won’t really matter in the long run if the contact rates don’t improve. It’s kind of strange to see players get to be too good at a sport to the point where it’s less entertaining.
Yea I pitched from little league to highschool and at age 13 I played travel baseball for coaches that played pro or college. Now I never threw as hard as these guys throw in today's game but that tells me with all these injuries is that they are not putting ice on their arms after they throw say 7 innings. Because pitchers that throw breaking balls such as curve balls can put a lot of strain on your arm as well. I was always told that it doesn't matter how hard you throw if you can't throw it over the plate. There are pitchers who do side sessions or bullpen sessions before it is their time to pitch again especially starting pitchers. But another aspect can make you throw harder is by throwing long toss because it builds up your arm strength and lifting weights or by throwing a heavier ball before they begin their warmups in the bullpen. But no it's not hurting baseball whatsoever it just sounds like somebody wants to make a big deal out of nothing that doesn't understand the game of baseball
here’s what I think the MLB should do, make a limit of a pitch at 97 or smth and if someone goes above it will be a ball, if its already a ball then it counts as two
Not that we’ve witnessed the peak of pitching but I believe batting has the higher ceiling in baseball. I think the batters will catch up as the game evolves
You say that watching pitchers hit 100mph but do you forget how excited the whole country was when Sammy sosa and mark McGwire were chasing the home run record? Trust me people like seeing baseball be played at that high of a level, I’d bet if you started hitting the ball 700ft people would take notice
1:10 - idk but I feel like BA is the wrong stat to use here bc it doesn’t include walks… how much of that is from faster pitches being harder to locate in the strike zone?
Pitchers would do better to work on command instead of simply trying to overpower batters. There would be fewer injuries and starters could go longer than 5 or 6 innings.
Not to nitpick but the intro footage was loosely picked. Kyle Gibson ain’t touching triple digits, and Aroldis Chapman was on the Reds like 10 years ago. Great video, just something that irked me immediately haha.
Fast pitching has always effected pitchers. Lot of promising Pitchers end up blowing their arms completely out. There is a limit to what the human arm can take being used that way.
@breadandcircuses8127 Because our muscles are like tight fleshy fibers that are connected by other soft tissue. When you move an arm it's just like moving a machine, Machines break down when they are worn down. So can peoples arms.
@breadandcircuses8127 no worries friend... think of a pitchers arm like one of those Trebuchet (A fancier catapult) look how they move and compare it to a pitchers throw and you'll see what I mean. All that machinery is producing so much force things snap and break.
If this continues, we will one day see a pitcher throwing 150 mph ... until his arm rips off his body and flies through the strike zone with his hand still clutching the baseball.
@@EvskiiCF thats nonsense. no one gets paid millions to play wiffleball. Wiffleball teams aren’t selling out stadiums in the 30,000 seat range nor do they employ 100s of concession workers who rely on the job to feed their family
@GoodLuckBeatz not nonsense at all. Baseball has a ton of idiotic rules already. You're just ignorant to them or you don't mind those because they've been around forever. Doesn't make then any less dumb The velocity limit would actually lead to more ticket sales because more hitting would occur and you'd keep arms healthier
Well if you throw a 90 mph pitch right down the middle the ball will be smoked but if you throw a 100 mph pitch right down the middle it would be different
Not to pick on Chris Young, but he wasn't exactly a flamethrower when he played...so it's not surprising to hear him say that he doesn't want all of his pitchers with crazy velo, seeing how he was a 6'10" pitcher throwing 91 🤣 he might be a bit opinionated on the topic of velocity and pitching...
Soon the pitchers will hit so hard the helmets break and a helmet designed for fastpitch softball heavier ball impact with the cage might have to be used.
they should limit when you can throw over 100. maybe only if you're in 4th+ place and not dring playoffs but yes during world series. only on tuesday? no that's tacos. wild ass throw wednesday?
Players are a lot more replaceable now as there is not very much variation in skill sets and not as much variation in skill level which is also hurting the game
Over the decades they've done nearly everything possible to make it easier on hitters. What on earth could they do at this point? 'ok it's an automatic ball if you throw a ball over 100mph'?
didnt watch the whole video so forgive me if this was said, but im convinced there will come a time when mlb just decides to move the mound back a few feet to compensate for increasing velo
Many pitchers are shortening their careers because of trying to throw hard. They don't know how to pitch. Whitey Ford didn't throw hard but had a curve ball that was his out pitch.
You can't get by on junk pitching. A Charlie Hough can't survive against modern hitters. You have to have challenge pitches, and if it's not fast with enough movement, modern hitters will feed on it. You can have tricky stuff, but a heater with movement can go a long way.
Rays have been doing this forever. They have all their pitchers just throw max effort 100% of the time and replace them when they get hurt. Seems kind of morally wrong almost.
