If you look back over the course of the show, Tim is the only one in his entire life that Hawk has opened up to about anything. Just one example is that he's the only one he's told about Kenny. It's shown right from the beginning that Hawk doesn't even tell the guys he tricks with his real name. His wife and kids don't know anything real about him. No one he works with knows anything about him. It's explicitly shown that he and Mary don't know anything about each other outside of work. He's only ever opened up to Tim about anything important to him. Of course he loves Tim. The whole show is about him trying to fight it...!
Exactly, Hawk is someone who is difficult to love especially if you are the type of person who likes to hear it from his mouth but Hawk is more about small actions. Aside from telling Tim about Kenny, he’s told Tim about his experiences in the army, his comrades deaths and how hard it was for him to recover and why Senator Smith was an important father figure to him. I think Tim comes to have a better understanding of Hawk in the 60s and has that deep conversation with you know who (won’t say name coz of spoilers)
@rach2755 You bring up two great points! First, his experiences in the army, seeing his comrades killed and being injured himself, has clearly led to some sort of PTSD that keeps him from getting close to people, probably for fear of losing them, and had him create this hypermasculine, survive-at-all-costs shield. And as you said, he shows his love through actions rather than words. He does so much (the best way he knows how) to protect Tim, often from himself. And without saying more to spoil it, I will say that the entirely of the next episode demonstrates this!
I will always defend Hawk no matter what. He loves Tim and he is only acting in whatever way he believes will keep them both out of prison and alive. Happiness comes a long way after those things to him. If they lived the way Tim wanted to, they’d be caught. He’s a victim just as much as Tim or Lucy and I think it’s sad to see what a hard time people are giving him. He only wants to be safe and for Tim to be safe, and I can’t see another way he realistically could have achieved that goal at the time.
^ THIS!!! Feel the same way. It almost makes me realize too, how much we have to make sure we're diligent about really knowing and understanding queer history - I think it's largely a lack of knowledge on that part that skews people's view of Hawk
Sooo much this!! It's interesting: I finally watched Heartstopper shortly after having finished Fellow Travelers, and have been thinking a lot about how a lot of people seem to automatically class Hawk as a Ben type. And on the surface, I can understand that instinct, especially based on where he starts in episode 1, but I also think that reading misses SO much of the beauty and nuance of his character. Because Hawk *isn't* some manipulative abuser demanding that Tim cater to his whims and play on his terms. The entire arc he goes on in episode 1, in fact, is all about him realizing that his determination to compartmentalize his life so tightly and protect himself at all costs HAS eaten away at him, he doesn't like the person it's made him become, and Tim's pushing him more and more to let his guard down with him DOES work to a pretty significant extent. People refer to him being so mean and such an a-hole to Tim, and I'm like.... but most of the time he's not only not those things, but is in fact so deeply, clearly loving, sweet, and admiring of Tim's goodness?? The *choices* he makes absolutely end up hurting Tim immensely, there's no doubt about that, but in terms of their actual direct interactions, in no way does he approach their relationship from a position of "I want to make him feel like crap so I can feel better about myself". He does have his moments of "you're getting preachy on me and I don't like it", but even in those moments his goal is never to tear Tim down, it's just to keep his own guard up. And when he does make the choices that hurt Tim, he *knows* he's hurting him and absolutely hates it. It so clearly kills him inside. It's just that he truly, deeply believes that if he *doesn't* cut things off with Tim, it will inevitably end in disaster, and Tim will be the one paying the highest price for loving him. That has been his ONLY life experience, and so yes, breaking Tim's heart and his own before it can end in prison, shock therapy, or death is the only option he can see. It just breaks my heart so much because, as misguided as he is in his worst decisions, I *get* why he makes them! How could I ever blame him for believing his only choice was the stave off complete disaster by any means necessary when he was given every reason by the world to believe as much?
Thank you for the insightful comment! I am so relieved to know that I am not the only one always defending Hawk. He knows, or thinks, that he is toxic to Tim and has warned him repeatedly. Everything Hawk does is either the best or the only solution to the problems they encounter or to push Tim away so that Tim wouldn’t get hurt even more.
Now I understand why Hawk marries Lucy after rewatching this episode. He was even so protective of Tim that he told him before Tim saw that in the newspaper. I cried so hard when Skippy went silent after Hawk told him this news. Oh god...Skippy...I am crying again.
Senator Lester C. Hunt. I think that in naming the fictional counterpart "Smith" (not in the novel, btw), the show's creators were giving a tip of the hat to Senator Margaret Chase Smith (1897-1995), one of the few Republicans in Congress to speak out forcefully against Joe McCarthy's words and actions.
The first time I watched this episode, it left me deeply heartbroken. 😭 Leonard, in my view, is the most tragic figure. As a young gay man, he faces a hostile world, compounded by the pain of having a father who never showed him love. What makes this even more tragic is the lack of support from Hawk, an older gay man who could have been his mentor. Hawk's indifference only deepens Leonard's isolation, tragically choosing to send him to a conversion therapy center and even insisting on strict treatment. 😭 Senator Smith was not as good of a person as Hawk might have thought, instead he was only preoccupied with his public image, not caring at all about his son's struggles and well-being.
Awwww, I've so looked forward to your video. I know that moving house is so stressful & hope everything has gone smoothly for you 😊. This episode had me in pieces (again)... This show 😭. I completely agree with you about the way Hawk always goes to Tim when he is needs comfort & it makes it all the more sad to me that when Tim needed Hawk, he was not able to be there for Tim. Breaks my heart to think how many people have been through this & the fact that in some parts of the world it's much worse for queer people than it is here in UK & in the US. 😢😢💔
I don’t think ppl appreciate how impactful the scenes with Senator Smith were for Hawk… e said so many times that S Smith was the only decent, honourable man out there and that he trusted him completely, owed him so much and considered him as family. Can you imagine how it felt when he heard Smith saying his son was disgusting for being gay?? I think Hawk had hoped Smith would let his love for his son prevail but it didn’t… it must have made him feel so unlovable, so wrong… 😭
I would like to recommend a very good film for you to watch, the name is "The Normal Heart". I don't know if you've seen it but this film is exciting and very interesting. It talks about the lives of queer people in the 80s in NY at the beginning of the AIDS crisis and talks a little more about this discovery and the struggle of these people to be seen by the government that at the time ignored the emergency situation
I’ve seen the stage production of The Normal Heart a few years ago at the national theatre here in London and loved it. I will definitely be adding it to my reaction list for 2024!
Smith appears to be based (semi-loosely) on Lester Hunt (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lester_C._Hunt). Hunt's son was entrapped by an undercover police officer, but the end result was the same. It did, however, play a major role in turning the tide against McCarthy.
For me it was the saddest episode so far, i felt like the truck ran over me by the end. Hawk crossing the worst lines with Leonard, Tim losing all hope he had in the goverment, shoking Senators death, Hawks inner struggles... So unbelievably gutting "I need to get over you" - and we know he never will.
Before this episode I assumed that the fear of potentially losing his job and being outed would've been the catalyst for Hawk marrying Lucy. This episode just highlighted for me the extent of Hawk's devotion to Senator Smith as well as the depth of his internalized homophobia. I wonder if a big part of Hawk's reasoning for marrying Lucy is b/c he feels indebted to Smith for all he'd done for him. But in some ways, Smith wasn't any better than Hawk's own father. Hawk's dad cut him out of the will b/c he caught Hawk with Kenny and had to put up with some rumors; Smith literally unalived himself in order to avoid rumors about Leonard getting out. Meanwhile, Hawk couldn't even muster up a fake apology for his father, but for Smith, he's willing to throw Leonard under the bus and marry Lucy.
THIS. He said so many times that S Smith was the only decent, honourable man out there and that he trusted him completely, owed him so much and considered him as family. Can you imagine how it felt when he heard Smith saying his son was disgusting for being gay?? I think Hawk had hoped Smith would let his love for his son prevail but it didn’t… it must have made him feel so unlovable, so wrong… 😭
In the 50's gay men were the favourite recruitment group for spy agencies, purely because all gay men in that era were so good at compartmentalisation, keeping multiple realities going at once. It was a whole factor of spy training that didn't need to be done with gay men in that era, as most had been doing it their entire lives. J Edgar Hoover, the Director of the FBI in that era was apparently a transvestite. It was speculated that he was so good at finding dirt on people because he had been so good at hiding his own skeletons in his closet.
Are you sure about the spy thing? I ask, because in my recollection, the lavender scare about gays in government was based on the rationale that gays were susceptible to blackmail and could be turned by the enemy. I'd think that gays in enemy governments might be recruited, rather than gay Americans.
In response to an idiotic comment on this video, I'd say this : I'd love for you to talk MORE. Your reactions are always thoughtful, and your empathy shines through the screen. Some of my takes on this episode, which was a hard one for sure... We saw more of Hawk and Smith's father-son/mentor-mentee dynamic. I think his death is the ultimate catalyst for Hawk to decide to marry Lucy. Also, I can see how some of Smith's beliefs have influenced Hawk (and reinforced what he learned in his biological family) : the homophobia of course, and the fact that his career and social status take precedent over everything else (to the point that he chooses suicide). Social respectability is paramount for Hawk as well, and he lies and compartmentalize to maintain it. We'll hopefully see him in the 80s arriving to the conclusion that it wasn't worth it, although it would take courage for him to do so. I cannot get past the way Hawk treated Leonard (Smith's son), him recommending conversion therapy and asking for Leonard not to have any contact with the outside world (making him a prisoner, basically), him expressing his disgust for what Leonard is... none of that was ultimately necessary (for his interests or Smith's), or excusable. Even though we can understand why he acts the way he does... I have a hard time seeing Hawk's acts of affection towards Tim as love, since they're more often than not conditionnal and a means to an end (or very cheap - with the cufflinks of his own initials (like, what?) he decided to gift Tim at the very last minute). He seeks comfort and support in Tim, without much reciprocation. He wants a relationship with him but only on his terms. I hope we see some growth in him in the 80s (and maybe also in the 70s) in how he demonstrates his love for him. They're both really interesting and complex, as are all the other characters (I regret that we didn't see much of Mary and her life). Like you, I'm amazed by the quality of this show, the way it respects the complexity of its characters, and of course it's incredibly well researched and executed
Ahhh love seeing you've got another reaction up!! XD And COMPLETELY agree on what someone else said re valuing your talking/reaction!!! I can't understand people who say to talk less on stuff like this - it's a reaction! That's what we're here for! XP I will say in seeing other comments on this episode (and the show in general), it's been frustrating to me because I feel like so many people forget or flat out don't know what it was like back then...it's easy now to condemn a lot of Hawk's actions, but it NEEDS the historical context. The conversion therapy is abhorrent to us now, but many gay people legitimately thought they were mentally ill/sick before the APA removed it from the DSM and other things changed. In that light (and not knowing what we know now), many of them saw conversion therapy as a validly hopeful option - that maybe there was some "cure," and that maybe they could "get better." (I've been reading about this more lately as I realize how much I still have to learn in terms of queer history - the 2021 edition of "On Being Different - What It Means to be a Homosexual" had good insights in terms of recognizing how far we've come [though parts were jarringly outdated XP]) We know now that all of that is horrifically tragic beyond words, that it causes so much harm, and that the fact that being gay was ever considered a mental disorder is so, so awful, but that context also puts Hawk's actions here in a different light. (Even the limited contact thing, that came across to me like Hawk trying to guard against him getting caught again and into more danger.) It also stresses how we have to be so diligent about learning queer history and/or keeping it with us as we go forward, especially given that so many were lost to AIDs in particular : / So appreciate the thoughts you shared in your video along similar lines too, Jackie
"Mayor Pete" Buttigieg, the first out gay serious candidate in a presidential primary in the U.S., who was born much later than the characters in this show, said that when he was younger he would have cut the gay out of himself with a knife if he could have. I am old enough to remember McCarthy's crusade and I absolutely felt the same way. I didn't know that the attraction to men was part of a whole person, I just thought it was a mental piece that, if removed, would make me like everybody else. And, oh, did I wish and pray (yes, on my knees, at least twice a day) for that removal. There were no resources at all outside the biggest cities (and rare there, also) to explain what we felt. The only portrayal of gays at all depicted them as shallow, effeminate, silly people or as depraved criminals capable of anything wicked.
Hawk zodiac sign is aquarius, so its kind of makes sense and explain a lot on his ability to seperate his emotion and his logic. Tim is scorpio.. So once again, its explain a lot on his very intens nature, passionate, idealis, and emotional, they also having obsessive nature to someone their loved, if their heart is pierced to someone, even the smartest of them will become fool.
Don’t you think it’s great to hear his reaction though? That’s what l love most. I can’t imagine that he would be allowed to show lots more of the show here anyway
@@JackieRossLavender You talk about the show, so I don't think you talk too much at all. Lots of reactors talk about themselves and try inserting pointless "witticisms" into their videos. That is SO not what you do. I think your commentary is on point and shows both intelligence and a deep empathy for the characters. Keep talking!
