female loneliness and the catch-up friendship crisis 

No cause as a man, my deepest and most cherished friendship is with a woman. Being gay and her in a very serious relationship, romance simply isn't an option but even so, people get so fucking wierd about and and it's so frustrating. While I'm not going to pretend to know other people's intentions, I can't help but think racism plays a part with how they react to their misconceptions. Like please Karen don't use racism to cover up the fact that you're jealous of how pretty she is 😒

in my experience as a reasonably attractive woman: men will never chose to be your friend if they can sleep with you. you’d be in shock how many of ur male friends would accept the opportunity,or start changing their behavior when you tell them that’s not what you want. sucks bc i personally find male friendships easier

@@sierrasmith8722 This has not been my experience at all. How are you finding this out, anyway?

Yes! One of my closest friends rn is a guy and i literally don’t even think about it 99% of the time. If you don’t make it weird and hyperfocus on gender, it’s fine

@@sierrasmith8722 I have one guy friend who asked me out not long after we met, but I gave him a clear and certain “no I’d like to stay friends” and he never once pushed the subject and now he happily has a gf and we are still friends. Im sorry you’ve had some shallow men in your circles, and I wish you luck finding ones that are mature and respectful people who don’t hyperfocus on gender

I recommend seeking out other weirdos and nerds, and if that doesn't work you could turn to online spaces. Nerds tend to be more accepting of autistic people because being overly passionate about your interests is normalized, and there's a lot of neurodivergent overlap there too. A D&D group was a great way for me to make friends in High School and college, even if they were more into the game than me. If that doesn't work my autistic bf met his best friend through a video game. Youll find your people eventually ❤

I've had similar struggles. I found it's sometimes easier to make friends online since you can more readily interact with people online. (Though I'm saying this as someone who has also lost a lot of friends, just to add this caveat.) I've found that autistic people more readily make friends with other autistic people. Before I was even diagnosed as an older adult, I realized everyone in my friends group is also autistic. There's less of a communication barrier, and a high likelihood of sharing special interests, which is a good foundation for any friendship.

Yes! I always wonder how not knowing I was autistic and therefore not having any friends in school with no idea why has maybe permanently messed me up.

Making more autistic/self-reliant friends has been a major improvement to my social life. So much less exhausting to have people you can unmask around / be honest with about your needs. And they do not need me to constantly remind them that I love them, BUT at the same time we always pick up right where we left off. The debriefing is so short-lived that we can get right into the fun or deeper stuff. So... I highly suggest finding other neurodivergent / self-reliant folks!

Hi! This is me! Im slightly going insane! Im also admitting to myself i have agoraphobia so I litterally just cant lol

Its more that women will be taken a lot more seriously in therapy and so will get more help

​@@draalttom844 thats not true. I dont know one women whos had that experience

​@draalttom844 not to mention that not everyone goes to therapy or can afford it? another expectation of women

@katc2040 you must not know many women. Just know that you get laughed at by psy, but psy listen first and that's a hell of a privilege

Oh my mom would rant at me daily for almost two full years until I was crying uncontrollably for me not having a huge friend group I was with daily and not having a boyfriend the way she wanted me to have a boyfriend

My friends and I do queer dinner! We're way overdue for another

For my birthday last month, I cooked dinner in a friend’s kitchen and 2 more friends came over (they brought dessert). It was one of the best evenings I’ve had in several years 💕

That sounds fun!

that’s awesome

Most people do this. In grad school, my whole class did this after every exam

That's why I feel like a society built on human needs would allow people to establish and maintain robust meaningful connections with more people a system that commodifies human time and labor guarantees alienation and less time to invest in relationships

I think a big issue is the lack of forming new stories. With a catch up friend you sit down and you tell them stories about your life outside of the relationship, and they do the same with you. You are connecting them to other things in your life, not to an internal aspect of you. Imagine instead of sitting down for coffee you instead go and _do_ something? Maybe a museum or a concert or take a pottery class together? Now you have a subject to discuss and share and connect over. My experience with catch up friends is often that you "catch up" because that's all you have to talk about. If you both couldn't talk about family and work and all that, what would you talk about? Politics, books, emotional challenges? Or would there be dead air? Maybe it's worth saying to a catch-up friend, instead of the usual topics, let's talk about different things, or do something together. Just a thought.

I have to do it daily or a few times a week via text with a friend. It was the only way to break the cycle for us.

@@CorwinFound Won’t you just end up with activity friends, which is the same thing in a different font? I have some we play board games together and another for painting classes - but then our friendship is defined by that thing we do and that part of myself and them without expanding to other areas of life. Suggesting we do something different with them gets me a “no, thanks” 🥺 It’s only slightly different from catch-up friends, yet still unfulfilling and it doesn’t feel like a full friendship

@@ChangesOfTomorrow this. I have both catch up friends and activity friends, and they both feel just as superficial. The trouble with the latter is I live in an expensive city, so these activities often cost a lot and I can’t afford to do them on a regular basis. I used to hate talking on the phone when I was younger but now find myself wishing my friends were more open to it.

so real

Pfp checks out

Same.

SO REAL LMAO

ponies are so obvious that you don't need to mention them explicitly.

yo me too

A phenomenon I've noticed is that a lot of people pair up and still socialise e.g. go out to dinner, see bands, get together for barbecues... but only with other couples?

i hope that sometime soon you find someone really cool to hang out with and they like you a lot

​@@_allegra aaabsolutely, I second that and I think generally this underlines her point of that priority where partnerships and family are seen inherently more important than friendship. People meet with people that are also in a partnership and forming a new family, because that because of those priorities, they tend to talk about these topics. (And also because of capitalism, if you work and have a family, you have extremely littke time for anything else) They talk about married/partnership life, plans for children (or not), building or buying houses or not being able to. As a single woman, I've got nothing really to say in those rounds of partnerships, and they aren't interested in my hobby talks. I have one group where there they first have a big round of family and kids talk, i listen to their experiences , and then one of two (female) friends mostly pulls a break and sais "ok enough family talk, what about (my name)?" And then they listen to how my life looks like and often we come to a point where we share what we miss. That they actually miss the freedom, flexibility, friends, hobbys which is definitely smaller now as a family in capitalism, and I talk about being lonely and kinda left out without a partner. But on the other hand, i have no contact with my brother anymore because what you described happened. Only couples nights, only couples nights and I didn't wanna be there and they didn't want me there and there was no ground to talk or change things. So yeah. I think this whole business-meeting-style of how we do friendships and the priorities lead to married ppl and family to not have time or Energy for friends, especially those friends who require more empathy and energy (instead of just relating bc you have the same experiences daily instead of actively trying to understand), which seems to be a force driving single and married friends more distant. I hate it. 🥹 Because obviously I love those people and mostly i really like their partners, but it's really hard work to keep those friendships.

@@_allegra OOOOF YES. My best friend still tries to include me in her plans, and i sometimes join in, but I just feel like the odd one out being the only single person in the group. It's uncomfortable and not because I dislike being single (I love it, I think I'm not ready for any commitment at all), but because the dynamics are SO different.

I'm curious about your system, but understand if it would be too much work to lay it out here!

@@PasCorrect not at all, though it may be long ! 😹 It's not a hard and fast ruling, more like a guide for myself so I, at least, know where I stand in my relationships. Because I have autism and take things very literally. So before I came up with this system, if someone said, "you're my friend," even only knowing each other two minutes, I would take that sincerely. Anyway, the most important question I ask myself, "do I like this person?" If not, they'll never be anything more than an acquaintance, at least until I realize I do like them because you never know. Then I ask, "does this person like me?" It seems difficult to answer that one, but it's actually really easy because you know in your gut/soul if someone genuinely enjoys your company when you're together. Next I ask, "how much time do we spend together?" Because I have good friends that I don't see very much, so I wouldn't consider them best friends. But I really like them and they really like me. But time spent together is very important to me, so while they're a good friend, they're not a "best" friend. Then I pay attention to acts of service. Because while the actual theory of the "5 Love Languages" is bullsh*t, it's still helpful to understanding your friendships, and that's the most important to me of the basic 5. Basically, if someone's words don't match their actions, they stay in "acquaintance" territory. But, if someone does kind things for me without saying anything about it, they get bumped up real high as soon as I find out about it. For instance, there was this one guy I literally only had two conversations with at open mic, but in one of them I found out he knew my producer. Well, I had a show in Dec but didn't mention it to my producer because I knew he wouldn't be able to come because he hosts karaoke at the same time. But without even knowing the extent of my relationship with my producer - just that we knew each other - the (now) friend invited him to my show ! And I don't even think they talk to each other that often, if at all anymore. It was so sweet 😊 so small but so appreciated, especially since I barely knew this guy at the time. After that, it's pretty much just vibes. None of these - except for the liking each other bit - are hard and fast rules, moreso guidelines. They're meant for me to understand where our relationship is currently at and be satisfied with it, NOT for me to try and push someone into a category they don't belong. So if I really like someone but we don't spend time together yet they hang out more with others, instead of being jealous, I just note where our relationship is at, try to spend more time, but if we can't, then that's okay, too. Especially since there are (now) other people I can spend that time with, or go spend some time by myself ! It's also not foolproof. I had a friendship breakup recently with someone I was saying we were best friends and that I loved her. She said it all back only because I was saying it (because I told her about my system). But she was just using me and manipulating me. I knew it but wasn't fully ready to accept it, so that really hurt when I did finally accept it. However, now I have this support system, so it doesn't affect my overall life as much as the last one did. And I'm able to still like myself even if I don't like her anymore. Anyway, I hope this was helpful in some way ! 🤗

This is really helpful! Thank you Do you have advice on how to meet / make more friends? (it's ok if not) I'm queer / ND / lefty which can make it harder

@@izzymika8825 I live in Seattle, so this may be way easier for me depending if you're in a small town vs. large city, but: I started going out to the same open mic pretty much every week. My anxiety was REALLY bad at the time, so I would take some weeks off. But you just find something you love that other people love to do as well, and try to be consistent with it. Everyone is shy, so the more they recognize you, the more likely people are to come up and say hi. It's scary as shit, but gets so much easier the more relationships you develop While it's difficult to find true third spaces because everything costs money now, I'd give the advice to try and find/build as close to a third space for yourself as you can get. It's difficult as shit when you have mental health/physical health stuff getting in the way, but consistency is 🗝️

@@n.j.5044 that makes sense! I'm in a city too so that part is ok Showing up for a consistent activity or event in a consistent space / group makes sense and is also friendlier to my ND brain lol Pacing yourself when needed is smart too Thank you! I'm glad your friend stuff has gotten so much better c: gonna try this kind of thing also

Male loneliness is just factually more prevalent than female loneliness. Let men hang on to the one sympathetic movement we have lol.

Thats interesting. When I heard about the make epidemic of loneliness. The first thing I did was ask if women felt the same. It made me realize we all have problems but we experience them in different ways and frequencies.

I highly relate to the college thing. I feel so incredibly isolated in college, with maybe one friend I made and I'm almost done with it. I am getting worse and worse at classes and grades because I have no one to connect with really at all in real life. It sucks

Wait, why were you upset hearing about male loneliness?

I definitely relate to it being difficult to make and maintain friendships being queer and neurodivergent, those are definitely very real and very impactful factors. I'm also AMAB and generally male presenting. I've found this factor also makes it harder to find emotionally fulfilling and intimate friendships, especially ones that involve other AMAB people. There are a lot of factors contributing to loneliness that are really tough for everyone, the thing about male loneliness is that even among those that don't face all these other struggles, due to socialization, simply being a male/AMAB is in and of itself a factor that makes it *even* harder which is multiplied when trying to connect with other male/AMAB people. This in no way diminishes the loneliness that all people face. I can understand how hearing about it, especially given the overwhelming amount of other privileges that males get, can be bothersome, so I'm glad there are spaces and videos like this talking specifically to female loneliness and loneliness in general.

Yeah I mean kids used to literally play on the street together! Also the blinds things is so interesting, theres a mystery novel from 1960sish where a detective complains no one sits and watches the street anymore so he cant ask if they saw anything😅

@@sophiabreidfischer6242 Huh, interesting!

Not gonna lie, this feels like blaming zoomers for Reagan and Thatcher

In grandmas day people formed communities. You knew your neighbour, walked to school or took the school bus, played in the streets, had neighbourhood cook outs, went to church, pta meeting, ext. Now people are so "busy", which is really netflixing, being on your phone, and self-isolating distractions. Then crying because they have no friends Oh also people were less likely to join toxic "I am so oppressed" clubs.

Neighborhoods aren't walkable anymore. There are no sidewalks and everything is too spread out. Because of this, people have to drive to go places. No one is going to waste time and gas going anywhere unless they have a reason to be there, so they make friends with the people at those locations, not in their neighborhoods. Not to mention the fact that if you open your blinds, then police can legally look in your house and take action if they see anything suspicious. It also makes it easier for thieves to see if you've got anything good, too. And who wants the neighbors to see them vacuuming without a bra? With everyone walking around with HD cameras on their phones, cars, and doorbells, you never know when some silly thing that happens in your house will go viral.

maybe you can also try to organize that your friends start to hang out all together like suggested in the video, and then if multiple ppl bring their kids they can occupy themselves and you still get ti talk to them it can be very hard to organize time without kids but if they can bring them along I'm sure that they will be able to meet up more often

Why do you want to spend your time with mothers? They are boring and can’t go anywhere! Find other single childfree friends

@@mousestripedgrass2123what type of childfree adult wants a ruined evening out with other’ s people children?

she did mention that though, she talked about friends being in different life stages, like having kids.....

​@@FoundSheep-AN Maybe the type of childfree adult who loves and cares about a person who is a parent? Jesus Christ. Also hello, not all children are monsters.

I feel for you! Also a former homeschool kid, with isolated parents, and yeah I felt I had missed that first bus of friendship, and even though I made some friends later on, they all had friends from former stages of their lives. It takes quite a bit of time to catch up... Take care!

This. I was also extremely isolated as a child and now have cPTSD. I’ve always tried to make friends, but for some reason or another, I’m just never what they want and I don’t know what I’m doing wrong. It’s so, so lonely. 💔

100% feel that.

Temple Grandin said (and I agree) that for autistic people, having an activity or special interest in common with others, is a way to start friendships. That rhis works beyter for autistics than the usual pattetn

Being the victim of toxic abuse will make you a loner through no fault of your own, faster than anything else. As a child abuse survivor, I wish more people knew this.

this blew my mind ngl

Another reason why English speaking places, especially America, are touch starved

Don't think you can’t get better or don’t deserve better by waving it off as a cultural problem… That little trust shouldn’t be happening with your SPOUSE

And wtf did that accomplish besides enriching them of $200 dollars for an hour of at best doing nothing?

​@jaumartinez9006, you are aware that you can see a therapist for a myriad of reasons for a prolonged period of time, right? You don't have to believe that therapy is helpful but for a lot of people they help tremendously. Especially regarding issues that friends or families simply can't help with

*virtual hug*

⁠@@davidcrawford9026Some people process things through talking about them, and having a therapist helps because they can often give you both comfort and solutions. Not to mention, not all therapists are that expensive and the person may have been seeing this therapist for other issues and this was just one of them. You’re so quick to judge, but you fail to take the time to realize that people often don’t share everything online and there are multiple reasons the person saw the therapist.

Yeah… In my case I accepted it and I feel good being by myself. But yeah is true that I would like to have that best friend again sometimes.

That's so lovely, good for you!

i tend to get along so much better with people who are older than me, idk why. i’ve always had friends significantly older than me throughout my life 😂 i struggle to make friends my age. i find older people are slightly less judgmental of my autistic tendencies, and they attribute a lot of my weirdness to generational differences

The kind of friendship where you just sit next to each other doing your own thing and they're doing yours, and then have those periodic moments together and make inside jokes, or go out for food or coffee then come back and continue doing your thing. Those are the best! Now everyone needs to be entertained constantly so nobody just comes over and hangs out just to be near you. At least not since I was in school where we'd walk home together and eat some snacks and do homework

True. Thats why I meat with my mate to hit the gym before work. Because their all ways too tired after work. And they spend the weekends with their boyfriend. If you and your buddy are willing to wake up early. Then the morning before work would be a good time to spend time walking, jogging, or training.

Phone conversations that you do while lying in/on bed are so underrated. It feels like a slumber party even if it's still light out

@@sarahwatts7152that sounds lovely 💕 I have a friend who lives far away that likes to call me while I’m in the bath tub or when they and I are doing chores. We then often talk until I have to go to bed and I really like those talks. When I visit them we do those kind of hang out that children do. Like watch a show we already watched a thousand times and just enjoy them together.

@@robertkeaney9905unfortunately I do wake up early already (5:30 am) to go to work so that’s not really possible. But I’m glad to hear that it’s working out for you and your friend and it sounds like a great way to connect between all the stress and schedules that adult life brings 😊

I‘m so sorry that happened to you and totally get that. But there are nice guys out there and I think if you communicate it to them, that its just friendship to you and they are fine with that, it might work. But be careful of course, good luck :)

​@@julidia3439 Told a guy point blank that there is nothing on my side and that there never will be. Gave him the chance to back out of our friendship in case he was hoping for something else. He said it was OK.....I dont think i have to eloborate more than he very much was not ok with a friendship. What more are you even supposed to do If point blank honesty to the face doesn't work??????

@@lexa2310Maybe start by not blaming every other man on the planet because of it 🤷🏻‍♂️

@@Artemis-A24they literally didn’t. They just said they adjust how they treat men now cause they’d rather not be taken advantage of again.

Male friends R the sht out of us.

That does sound brutal. Its good that you made some good friends. Good friends are worth their weight in gold.

Yeah, it’s rough out here for us. Hopefully the economy can slowly start to go back to normal because if not, there’s gonna be a lot more death soon.

I wouldn't put my faith in any revolutions. Revolutions are always destructive, make everyone poorer, and bring tyranny to all.

I'm not queer but I am autistic. I don't think anything is changing soon for friendship. I've always wanted a friend. Had a fun group going in middle school cause none of the poor kids parents wanted them in the house and we would all meet up and travel the city with nothing to eat 😂. None of those people were deep friendships. We were very comfortable around eachother but not exactly intimate and they grew out of it. I have my husband and children now and no one else. I am friendly with people but no real way to make a friendship happen. And I need to provide for my family so there's no time to take up finding a friend as a full time job. I actually feel like friends don't exist. But then there's some proof that it does like in these comments. And I try to forget about it lol. I hate feeling like people have friends, just I don't.

Well, I’m 40, straight, single, and autistic. 😅. So not all straight people get to couple up. I don’t think anyone would choose to be a straight woman 😅. You have to date people who are most likely to vote against your rights. It f&@king weird

God, what you described here sounds like my experience as well. Being undiagnosed autistic all through school pretty much made me the target of a lot of people, and it wasn't until later that I actually processed that they kept me around and called me a friend because i was like some sort of "jester" or "pet project" they had. I was only around to keep that "friendgroup" (or rather, my bullies(? I guess) entertained, and do their bidding (assignments, projects, even online tests) when they didn't want to. They made plans in front of me, most of which I was never included in, until one of them gained enough concioussness to notice that it was pretty rude of them, actually. Despite that, I felt more like I was being dragged around rather than hanging out with my friends. One time they made me store their alcohol in my backpack so that they wouldn't be blamed for having it (we were minors at the time, and I didn't even drink.) Needless to say, that experience made me develop a lot of anxiet, then the pandemic hit, and I became completely isolated because I had changed schools, and obviously those people never contacted me again. So I started making friends through Discord, but we all know that those kind of places are infested with weirdos. One of my friends got groomed, another I had to witness going down the alt-right pipeline, and that whole friendgroup became a general disorganized mess. 4 years later and now in uni, I've made quite a few friends irl, but we're far from the one big friendgroup we were before. Now I only talk to 3 of those original like 19 people, and even while that was still going on, I felt like they were more friends of my one more extroverted friend that I hung out with so I wouldn't be alone. I also struggle a lot with that distinction of platonic/romantic, my only romantic relationships have been online, I've never been to parties. FOMO doesn't even affect me anymore because I feel like although I've been there to witness drama after drama between different kinds of friendgroups, I've always just been the spectator. Like "the truman show" combined with a shitty teen drama.

That’s so interesting! I had the exact same experience as you when I was a child but my reaction as a college student was completely different. I purposely isolated myself and refused to let myself make close friends because “theyre not going to like me anyways” and I just didn’t know how to go about the whole socializing thing. It was only as a mid-20s person that I learned how to reach out to others

I was super isolated growing up and wanted to try to change it in college, but at that point had zero social skills. I didn’t know how to show up to parties on campus that were open for people to walk in. So I would get all dressed up and wait in my dorm room hoping that one of the other girls in my program would invite me to go out with them, because if they DID ask I didn’t want having to get ready be the reason they said nvm.

Thank you for sharing your experience 💜

Yeah, all the things YOU never had are just a carrot on a stick for what THEY want

Hi it’s me I’m the problem it’s me 👋

This. Also I don't want to go out to bars and clubs, I don't want to get drunk every weekend and certain not going to snort anything. That right there eliminates a lot of people my age. I also don't want to go rock climbing. I figure you know what, I don't want to do what everybody is doing, so I must deserve to be lonely.

@@netteloveszebrasthis. I don’t quite understand the impulse to drink underage in college either. As a black female, I do not want to engage in anything that is 1.) illegal (at least for the time being) 2.) would not receive a “slap on the wrist for” 3.) be inebriated around a crowd of people that I literally do not know (literally giving them free ammo to stereotype me however they like). It’s just plain dumb and I feel like if I had to express this to people, they wouldn’t care

​@@netteloveszebrasPersonally, I have found that focusing on what I do like to do and engaging in that in social ways when possible is pretty effective in finding community. Even more isolated hobbies like video games and knitting can be done socially with some creative thinking.

The closest I had to a "friendship break up" was when my pandemic roommate moved out so they can move in with their partner. It's a very awkward position, since you feel hurt and abandoned, but also happy for your friend.

Wrote my rooomate a poem about how much I'd miss her and we cried together. We said we'd keep in touch but I'm sure we both know living apart that's not likely 😔

@@progress313 I sincerely HATE that. You both care for each other and had great times. You're being honest about keeping in touch, but you can FEEL it. Life is going to get in the way. I might try saying don't keep in touch, but if you think of me tell me or something along those lines.

I'm so glad to hear y'all had each other to get through it! I know I still wonder about how the kids I was in inpatient with are doing over 15 years later for the same reasons.

i feel this so hard. the first time i ever went to residential was the one of first times i had ever had people around me who truly liked me for me. i could unmask and be myself around them and they always reminded me that they liked me and gave me compliments on my personality. i made them laugh, and not because they were laughing AT me, but because they genuinely found me funny. they reminded me that i was intelligent and insightful, and that i was unique and knowledgeable about many things. we all cried when i left. i didn’t really stay in touch with any of them unfortunately (due to all of us being mentally ill lol). but it was one of the only times in my life where i felt valued. one of the girls unadded me on snap recently, which made me sad. but im just trying to cherish the memories and the feelings i had at the time

There is an eroticism to certain platonic relationships between girls depicted in movies like Girl, Interrupted

Holy...woe this hits home.....I know exactly how you feel... I was in an elevator with a man and his gf for a few minutes 20 years ago and that interaction and bonding experience we had was stronger then some coworkers I worked months besides....it's crazy

Yep, granits very intense,ted it really depends on the people and if the ward actually has the aproach to like encourach that as recovery, and be not ttoo awful, Woulsnr recommend if you dont have too, but yeah if ther are secent people to hang out, because bloody it beats the boredom, and it is intense of course, in a positibve way if ther is a decent kinda community even. Good psychiattries use that communal if possible intentional in recovery by the way. Makes me thinks of scout and the , stuff that happened on campds and, really wild fun stuff sometimes, also very memorable, taught me about responsible being drunk by the way :P For the same reason i think veterans are instantly that open and way different, i thinlk

Interesting. Who is this counsellor, and how do I meet the person?

Thanks a lot. I just did. Impressive.

wtf bots are getting really out of hand

so sorry

​@@charmingnarcissewait, is this an ad

Yeah. But I still feel akward to not really have much to say...

Your reply seems more like a reply to an acquaintance, whereas friends often want to update each other on their personal lives, especially if they haven’t seen each other in a while.

@@lexa2310 i had this problem but i started telling people about all the little 'unimportant' details. 'what have you been up to?' 'i've been doodling scenes from adventure time and i watched this really interesting video about sphynx cats' and stuff like that. idk if that's helpful to you but i found that it can spark conversations, and people like knowing little facts about their friends.

That’s so insane. I hardly ever leave the house and yet every catch up is hours and hours and hours. Technically I have hours of catch up to share every day.

exactly 😂 i’m like “well i sat at home and crocheted again…and uhh i bought a new espresso machine recently”

Yeah but men don't expect other men to solve their life problems for them so it's easier just to accept how they are. I find so female friendships just too demanding.

@@gauloise6442 Wanting your friends to put emotional labor into the relationship is not the same as expecting them to solve your problems for you.

What do you mean by "missing stair" problem?

The only real answer to who's the loneliest is the rich vs poor. The genders don't need to compete over this ffs

The thing is that men arent less lonely, often they arent taught to expect that to begin with :( i wouldnt say less lonely, just probably are a bit less numb often?!

In HS i used to lay on my friends and was so comfortable with casual touch. With the few friends I have now in my 20s, I can't break that barrier of going from no touch to touch for some reason. It's unfortunate bc i love physical touch but haven't received any in probably years.

This is my issue.as a teen me and my at the time best friend would be wrapped up in eachother. Always leaning on eachother, straight up having our legs in between the others at times. And my other close friend my senior year would bear hug me every time we met. But now 5-7 years later, a year and a half of pure isolation..it's like I want touch but I hate it. With my current best friend (the high school one blew up on the whole group and left sadly) the most touch we really have is holding hands in crowded spaces or leaning only if one of us is super tired. And like you said, dude all I want is a hug sometimes. I just want a pat on the back or some sort of warmth but I'm scared my friend will find it weird because I think we're both slightly touch adverse.

❤

Took you 11 minutes? I'm only 6 minutes in.

8 minutes is and great to know by the end I’m still gonna feel bad! 🙃

Thanks for this. This is top real for me I was hoping it'd be helpful. Going to skip this one

haha 2 minutes for me, hits a little too much

Me too. I think I don't even know how to actually have a casual conversation anymore.

😭🤝

Same. Grew up in the middle of no where and my parents drove thirty minutes and an hour to work. I didn't get to exist outside of school and the house.

Same. Any friendship I did have felt surface level too

that’s how high school was for me too. i had a “friend group” but i never felt i was really part of the group. i’m pretty sure i was the only autistic person in that group so that’s probably why 😂 i ate lunch with them everyday and that was about it. the only times i ever really hung out with them outside of school was the occasional birthday party or homecoming. i stopped talking to all of them after graduation day

I’m not in my 30’s (I’m younger), but I absolutely relate to this.

@@Reed5016 I'm a bit older (mid thirties) but I relate to this (too!)

I relate too but I feel I belong nowhere. Big sigh. Still struggling with this stuff. Hope your journey goes well. Edit: I soon become 31 as well... I felt so exposed

@@pricklypear300 I love your pfp. Haruka is cool.

Please don't use abreviations if they aren't obvious to everyone.

Might sound like a dumb question to ask, but do you have any tips on making friends online? I've been attempting to do the same and I am just not having any success.

heyo same question as the other person

same :(

When people talk about women issues, do you ever get offended like you do when people talk about male issues? I see a lot of people talking about women issues and ignoring the fact that men go through the same thing.

@@NebulaSon huh? Noone here is offended. Except you I guess? Men have issues and that matters, they deserve attention and care 💜 Women have issues too and that also matters 💜 It's not a zero sum game I was just sharing my experience. I'm glad there is attention around male loneliness, it deserves attention. I just appreciated hearing from lonely women too since I haven't heard them before. One doesn't detract from the other; like I said, not a zero sum game

@@laurenthomas7074 There definitely are people here getting offended about male loneliness and how there's "too much of a focus" on that. So I wouldn't say no one. But you're not one of them. I feel like it's what you said and that we need to look at everyone instead of different groups trying to play misery olympics.

@@joevictor53I guess my issue with “male loneliness” is when influencers or articles kind of blame women for male loneliness, like young men are single, and this makes them depressed, but women are in relationships. This bothers me because it isn’t women’s fault that men are lonely, and it’s not men’s fault women are lonely. I hate when blame is blanketed on women in an internet culture where women are already demonized for negative male feelings. But loneliness does matter, and men’s mental health is very important to address.

Same here. What I've found though is that it's easier for me to make friends with other ND, queer, or disabled people. Sometimes I'll make friends with someone who is one of those things, only to find out later they also have those additional qualifiers.

​@FrozEnbyWolf150 I wish I could find ND queer community but I can't drive due to disability and that's made it so hard to do when my city/county is so sprawled out and there is a big stigma around physically disabled people

@@emeraldfern6135 It might be easier to reach out to people online, rather than in person. I forgot to mention. I've met quite a few of my friends online, and it's easier to get in touch with them.

@@emeraldfern6135You can always try online! Many discord servers have spaces specifically for neurodivergent, disabled, and queer people, and there are many servers dedicated to just those purposes as well!

This describes perfectly a lot of my struggles with making friends as a neurodivergent person. Especially when teachers would put me with other neurodivergent kids expecting us to get along just because we were neurodivergent, like idk most of the times we were really incompatible, mostly because the boys had no sense of respect for other people's boundaries and this would lead to uncomfortable situations, while on the other hand I've always been reserved, hated being touched and needed my own personal space, but since I was a girl, I was expected to be complacent and to not upset others by setting my own boundaries, otherwise I was a bitch. It sucks, it teaches autistic girls and female presenting kids that our needs don't matter. And yeah, making and keeping friends as an adult is even more difficult. I have few friends and I try not to depend on others, so that I'm not a burden to them. I'm still grateful for them, but I wish we were more of a community. I wish you the best on your journey, good luck on everything! 🍀 P.s.: I love your Sayla profile picture! She's one of my favourite characters!

Damm, I recognize so much of that story, between me and my sister's experiences... My sister is autistic, (I'm not) and she had a similar experience with the "social groups" being just extremely un-helpful free-for-alls of people with ALL different levels of ability to chill, and all she learned from them, (she has told me) was that too many neurodivergent people all at once is a bad time. Which didn't HAVE to be true, but those groups pretty much were designed to make that the outcome! And you had to suffer the curse of attractiveness too? That's so rough, for real. My sister didn't develop a natural independent streak, tho, that was what I got. I'm physically disabled now, so I'm also feeling the huge cognitive dissonance of WANTING to do things alone, and also now NEEDING HELP. I have the same problem with people never texting me first, never offering me help with things I would like them to do for me, like driving me places, unless I ask them, very clearly, every time, and even doing so, doesn't guarantee I'll GET the help I asked for... I think it's not that they completely "forget I'm alive" - I think it's that they're thinking "aww, they're so independent! They'll be fine without me!" Which, in my case, really isn't true! And maybe the solution is that I should try to appear... more dependent? More needy? But being nb and afab, that just sounds like a good way to get hurt. :/ Guess I'm stuck being lonely, and carrying a lot of friendship-weight if I want to keep anyone around me! TLDR - I have some of the exact same problems, and no idea how to fix it, either. It's exhausting, for sure.

It's impossible to find an offline community for Autistic adults where I live. Every service or organisation I've been recommended or looked into is for parents of Autistic children, or they are, as you said, day trips and activities I would have done as a child to make friends. I just want a support group of people who share my experiences and understand the difficulties I face, even leaving aside forming relationships, not a trip to the zoo with a bunch of strangers. I understand other people need and enjoy those services, but I can't handle the inevitable infantilization from the (not Autistic) people who run those services, either.

Pretty women are BRUUUTTTAALLLLIIIZZZEEEDDD in neurodivergent spaces. It’s objectively supremely unsafe for them there.

OMG SAME!! it’s like they’re embarrassed of me or something. i’ve only had friends introduce me to their other friends like once or twice. and even then, we only hung out once and then i never saw the other friends again. i feel like i’m the “secret” friend for people. they like hanging out with me, but they don’t want anyone else to know they’re friends with me

They want to control you. They also want to have you second-guessing yourself, so they feel better about themselves, and more than likely they are using you as their reliable one on one friend that is there for their needs/problems but not to have fun. I have cut these sorts of friends out of my life and am better for it.

That might not be a personal thing. I think some people just like their groups separate especially if they have different dynamics with different friends.

This was so validating to read! I make a lot of jokes (which are also serious lol) about having been adjusting to the culture around social relationships here in Michigan for over 10 years after moving from the south. People are so "flaky" here and idk if I will ever fully adapt. They act like anything over a half hour drive is too far to regularly get together. And the amount of straight up not showing up with no notice to a planned hang out is shocking. For a long time I thought maybe I just happened to make friends when I moved here who were like this but the more people I meet the more I see it truly is a cultural difference. I hope you (and I lol) make some friends with a view of what "showing up" as a friend means that's more in alignment with your own eventually!

This is soooooo real.

I feel I was brought up to be a good friend, and that's my problem in friendships. I am constantly the one doing the right thing and being considerate, while everyone else is a self-absorbed flake, and if I try to set boundaries, they make me feel like I am overly sensitive for just wanting standard basic human decency.

You've got to get into some third spaces. Like the Gym, or the park, or an games shop. It doesn't matter if you take a cycle class, or you join a Ultimate Frisbee team, or you get into Table Top Role playing games. Whatever works. Sharing a space with others, and building up connection over time is hard but rewarding. Like carving a sculpture out of marble.

​@@robertkeaney9905 I have found a hobby online, I like a kpop group (BTS) and I am a dedicated part of ARMY (fandom name). Being involved in this community I was able to gain over 25k followers but even with all of that I still don't have friends, I've never talked to anyone from the community, people like my videos (I make edits on TikTok) but they don't know me.

god i felt this. like i am only emotionally close to my dad, and i rarely ever post on social media, esp if its about myself or my life. i can relate to wanting to reply/enter a conversation in social media and just....not doing it for whatever reason. don't even get me started if it's old friends whenever i see their posts on fb, and what fun events their going to with their other friends/classmates and how they probably didn't even think about inviting me :/ sorry if this is sudden trauma dumping. it's just this is one of those yt moments where a comment manages to perfectly reflect and articulate my life lol.

Very much the same here. I’m on the internet in all sorts of communities but I almost never interact beyond a like. I probably average like 5 comments online a year :(

@@medea4751 I totally get needing to talk about it. I feel like part of the problem is the shame/ embarrassment of not having formed this kind of emotional connection up until now. Like, I am 29 years old and I haven't really experienced most of what is considered normal relationships. So how can I talk to people about feelings and emotions?

Which tells us that social media is much less of a factor than we often hear in the media. When there are reports about loneliness and mental illness, social media is often named as a cause. But, personally, I think it's more of a symptom. People are lonely and sad and then turn to social media to find some type of human connection and distraction.

I would love to read it, if you could find it!

@@onion3150 I will try emailing my old teacher. Though I cannot guarantee she’ll respond. ^^

Damn this sounds like something i would like to read!

@@emris2697I’d love to read it if you were able to find it:)

I grew up here and I feel similarly. I still mourn long friendships that ended suddenly and without explanation, and I feel a lot of the time that my understanding of relationships is completely different from the people around me. Sometimes I feel like I would have been better off living in my parents country, but I don’t think that possible considering the ways I’m marginalized. All this to say, I deeply empathize with you

Born and raised in the US, and this culture has had a deep impact on me. I have lost so many friends and I don't know why. Thinking about entering new relationships makes me feel ill. I also think it's generational. My elderly neighbor is the only one who is able to teach me how to be a good friend. She meets the neighbors and knows all the tea on the block, but her husband is ill so we can't see her as much

i was born and raised in the US, and i’ve had very similar experiences. you’re not alone

I was born and raised in the UK, still live here and can really relate to your comment. I started therapy a year ago convinced I was a terrible person because of all the lost friendships. My problem is I'm now so isolated and lonely and depressed it's hard to be normal enough to go out to things and meet new people, I'm scared they'll think I'm weird for how isolated I am. I was part of two volunteer groups but they both suddenly shut down and the isolation has been crushing since then. I will keep trying new things because my survival depends on it. I'm not sure what the answers are, it seems modern society is not good for friendships.

I was born in the US and my experiences are similar. Though for me, I've had a series of 8+ year friendships turn extremely toxic and outright abusive. The first close friend I ever had was in childhood, but they moved away, and before the internet was as robust. I actually did visit them again about a year later, they had already developed a tight friend group and I was an outsider by that point. Unlike them, I hadn't made friends with anyone since then. After that point I started to try socializing online, and ended up developing a close online friendship that lasted about 10 years, and we had met up in person twice. It ultimately ended for a variety of reasons, but one big reason had to do with the involvement of the next close friend I made about 4 years in, who was also online (and had also met up in person). I had introduced them to eachother, and the two of them ended up conspiring with eachother to try to oust me. The former, as well as myself, had been manipulated significantly by this person over a period of several years. Said third person ended up admitting to me that they were jealous of me, and so they tried to put me down at every opportunity and deliberately tried to turn my best friend against me. We both ended our friendship with this person but our friendship ultimately never truly recovered and ended completely years later after an argument. The next one was a real life friend, we had met in high school. We had technically "dated" for years but it never felt right to me. It eventually lead me to realize I was asexual. We broke up but remained just as close, or so I thought. A few years ago I got into another relationship that I was actually happy in and their attitude changed. Eventually they just stopped talking to me alltogether, so I guess they were only friends with me on the off chance we could get back together again. I also made another good online friend in college. We were extremely close but one day they decided they resented me over things that weren't even anything I personally did, but blamed me for all their problems. Part of this was yet again spurred on by a third party actively trying to turn us against eachother (who this friend even warned me about, but fell for it themselves, while I caught on pretty quick as this person was actively telling me things I knew 100% were lies about my friend) We had developed a group online together, but eventually my friend decided to tell everyone how supposedly evil I was. I got tired of being treated coldly and having everyone turned against me, so I left. Inbetween this, I ended up getting involved with an extremely toxic group in college where the "leader" would openly brag to us about pitting two of the boys in the group against eachother to fight for her affection. I got out of that group with another friend. Who ultimately ended up not talking to me anymore after lashing out at me for reasons I don't understand. Now the only person I regularly talk to is my partner....who after a few years in, now regularly hurts me in similar ways that my last close friend did. I had been in therapy and taught all these ways to communicate and handle things, and every single thing I had been taught ended up at best not helping or at worse making things worse for me. All of these things just make me feel like I should have never even tried to make friends at all. I can no longer make new friends because I cannot handle being treated the way I have been treated again. And worst of all is the guilt, because its treated as though if a person consistently only has toxic relationships, then "clearly" it means that person is the toxic one. I have done everything for the people I cared about. I'm the type of person who if I'm told I did something hurtful, I make sure to never do that again. I'm the type of person will try to resolve conflicts with understanding and compassion rather than accusations and threats. I'm the type of person who will try to avoid misunderstandings by asking questions and trying to make sure we're all on the same page, instead of getting angry at a misunderstanding. If something does upset me, I will speak calmly and try to work things out, never reacting in a sudden way without warning. I learned how to do all of this in therapy, as an autistic person, as this is supposedly how neurotypicals communicate. That's a lie. People say that's the kind of friend they want, but they refuse to even put in half as much effort. It's just miserable. I feel hopeless and that no matter what I do, people will treat me horribly.

Friend zone is a silly made up concept

​@@chase_saddy Nope, it's a shitty situation that men get into when they over invest in a woman they aren't certain that will reciprocate the attention, wasting his time.

In your opinion, it's a win when he gives you his time and attention. In his opinion, he tried to court you, only to have you decide you wanted to take some of his time and attention.

@@JuliAuditore you’re wrong. How does it feel being wrong?

@@chase_saddy how am I wrong?

may i ask where you're from? i think there would be a lot of people around you in the same boat, living in secret for their own safety. i hope you find someone you can connect with someday.

That is fucking Brutal. If you're good with english, maybe you good join a D&D group, or another simmilar hobby. I'm a dude. And not into D&D. So I just Lift and chat with my mates. But you don't have to go to the Gym to build trust, respect, and comradery. My little sister played final Fantasy XIV, played a healer, and made friends with the people she'd do boss fights with. You don't have to be isolated. You can find some mates.

Fucking same. I'd also add that every single person in my country older than 24 is married with kids and i'm 27 and single (i'm aro-ace but in my country being anything other than straight is seen the same, so if came out they'd also see my as a threat ????) and everyone around me is constantly pushing my boundaries "why are you single?" "What's wrong with you?" "Get married and have children now, you're not getting younger"

I wish I could hug you through the phone 🫂 Im so sorry :(

Even though I live in a rather accepting country and therefore can't really relate to that part of your comment, the part about wishing for a relationship that is seen as a priority really resonates with me. I just wish there was someone to whom our relationship would be the most important one, be it a romantic one (even though I'm not even sure if that's something I can do) or a platonic one.

I am in a similar dilemma. I don't even have the energy to take care of myself; I generally need help from the outside, but often are not enough to give help back to the people whom I would ask to help me. Sometimes I am able to do something for others, but those are often the ones who are even worse off than me. ^ ^

@@johannageisel5390 Thanks for response! Feel you!

I can relate to I can't be a good friend um just to messed up physically and mentally

Numbers 2 and 4 are just symptoms of being disabled, tho. (Source, am disabled)

Your number 1 is what women with autism have been trained by other women to think. We're taught that no one really wants to hear what we have to say. Especially not if it takes more than a few seconds to explain. I agree with the second point, up to a point. Repeatedly flaking or cancelling plans last minute communicates a lack of interest and respect. But sometimes it's due to a chronic illness or disability.

Cancelling plans is a hugely abusive behavior that everyone feels too damn comfortable with. It’s a complete breakdown of the social contract.

Sorry this is a stupid comment but for 3 and 4 especially; for me at least, I find myself being extremely shy and introverted due to trauma/feeling an extreme sense of people just generally not liking me/wanting to hurt me. Completely irrational? Yes, but that feelings so intense at times that it makes it hard to be vulnerable, because what if they use it against you? To hurt you? (It’s happened before, who’s to say it won’t happen again.). I don’t know where I’m going with this except that I feel certain things maybe be less from others being selfish moreso shit they need to work through??? Idk, for me I have those problems but I know why and just don’t know how to prove that narrative in my head false,, it’s also why I find myself being more open online than irl as well lol.

Lots of assumptions being made, the responses are telling

Thank you for sharing your experience 💜

I've had similar experiences as a female in my twenties. I attended college classes and club activities for years all without making any lasting friendships outside of that environment. I spent an entire semester in a class where most students knew each other, but I was in a different major so I felt like an outsider. At the end of the semester we went on a weekend field trip and suddenly I made a close bond with 3-5 other students and it was SO. FUN. Months later I took a seasonal job in the middle of nowhere and since everyone else there was in the same boat, I made a couple of really great friendships with guys. However we don't live near each other anymore so even though I text them occasionally I don't know if we'll ever get the chance to hang out again. Somehow I stumbled into a group of people from a class who wanted to start a D&D group. I joined and by some miracle we meet almost every week. We see each other more than our families. But most of us plan to move out of state soon, and I try not to think about how that will affect me but I can't help it. It's such a rare thing that has happened with us and I will miss it. I hope to find another group of like-minded people like that when we end up parting. :/

Fellow study abroad participant 🙋🏻‍♀️ I totally understand the survival instinct mentality. For me it was literal. I was in Japan and my Japanese wasn’t very strong despite years of study. To survive we literally had to group together and try our best lol I always leaned more into female friendships as a woman. It always felt safer to me. But while abroad I made a very close male friend. It’s been 5 years and I still miss him. We clicked and had a great time together. I didn’t feel as though I would be judged for being a mess around him. No makeup and baggy clothes? He wouldn’t care. Maybe that sounds goofy but as a woman I always feel judged by men in particular so it was really nice to not have that. I desperately miss the weird tight friendships that formed during that period. Nothing quite like it and unlikely to be replicated

Probably also safety in numbers. A lot of guys, even those actually open to friendships with women, will often identify ONE woman they want to connect with and go about this by trying to get her by herself. And of course, for the majority, there's no nefarious intent there, they just want to interact one-on-one. But that will instantly put women on guard. Groups are safe, and you show that you're safe by extension if you're willing to interact in a group, especially a group of all women. I've been telling guys for years that if you want to DEMONSTRATE that you're a nice guy, let her be the one to initiate your first interaction alone. I'm sorry you didn't really click with more of your classmates, but it's great that you're still in contact with one! That trip sounds like it was a really powerful experience. Thanks for sharing the story. ❤

Also unsolicited question/advice (in reference to your story, but directed toward anybody delving into the comments): Did you mention to any of them how special that dance ar the discotheque was for you? "Talking about feelings" doesn't need to be hours-long festivals of sobbing and analysis. You could take a step toward forming a more lasting emotional connection with something as simple as "Thanks for inviting me into that dance yesterday. I've never been included in something like that before, and it was really great." "Thanks" is always a pretty neutral statement, doesn't come on too strong. Making it about inclusion in a group activity rather than something personal alleviates the "Oh, no, is he coming on to me?" concern. "I've never been included in something LIKE THAT" avoids saying something that could be interpreted as needy, like "I've never FELT included" or "I've never been included (without the qualifier)." However, it still also reveals something about you, emotionally, which is kinda the thing you need to do to get into mutually emotionally supportive relationships. It's just a tiny bit vulnerable - as opposed to just saying it was fun and you enjoyed it - because it is implied that this was a new experience. If you're after friendships with women, can't go wrong with: - get in with a group and interact with all of them - if you're most interested in one, NEVER corner her alone - actually give information about your own experiences and emotions in a positive way [Start positive; there's an issue with men using their women friends as therapists, which is miserable and exhausting. But once you are friends, of course you have venting rights, like any other friend. But really, guys, talk to your women friends about your wins and joys, too! And of course, reciprocate.] Sorry that got so general. I just think you gave a really excellent and also heartfelt example of connecting authentically with women as a man and hoped to perhaps break down for others how to make the most of a similar situation to form meaningful connections.

That covid lock down sounds fucking brutal. I was lucky to have three mates to go out into the mountains to train with. I salute your resiliency for making through it with just your partner. Hopefully in the future you'll find some mates to muck around with. Even if its just going out for ice cream to have a chat. Or taking a job with them before work.

@@robertkeaney9905 oh I was single at the time haha just me and my cat

@@junipermarsh6590 Cats are good too.

Honestly I feel this is more a nowadays problem. People that like to have friends and are good at it already have friends, and nowadays is so little time for everything that people tend to have only a few friends, because is the only thing they can maintain. Others are too busy ho have time to make friends. So, honestly I feel is not necessarily your fault. If that people you are talking to are not looking for friends like you there is literally nothing you can do abut it. This is happening to me too… I mean, I still talk to my friends I made on College, but they have taken different paths and is very hard to see each other. With my ex best friend we happen to have a lot of misunderstandings and the friendship just broke and we had to move on. I do have a partner and we are very happy but right now I have zero very close friends, and I have just accepted it.

Met someone at the dog park. Got her number. Texted her. She texted back. Then nothing.

I feel it is really difficult to make friendships grow unless there's a common ground and you get to see each other frequently because of external circumstances. For that reason the people I'm closest to today I met at work, bitching and laughing/crying about management lol. Friendships without common ground (work, school, hobby, roommate) can work if both people are really into it and/or willing to make new friends. So I don't think you're doing anything wrong, it's just difficult if the person on the receiving end is not as motivated to meet new friends as you are.

I’m so happy to see you comment because it makes me feel so seen. Down to the therapist & the texting first. You’re doing everything right and yet not seeing the results you want. I 100% feel you. I am at the point where I have decided that who will be for me will be there and it should feel easy. I do it in the same way I do dating (no apps and mind games, just decentering men in general). Your tribe will find you, give it time. 🤍

I feel exactly this way. You can meet a bunch of people, but you can't connect with them. People aren't going to make time in their schedule for someone they don't really know, but you're not going to really know each other until you spend time together. ​@@gingersal8052It becomes something different entirely when new people are consistently not as interested in maintaining friendships as you are, or at putting them at the level beyond the "catch up friend."

The whole thing of people literally fearing the telephone is deranged and inhuman. Texts are NOT the same as talking on the phone.

What friends?

But we are always busy at different times

I've had this same feeling at a few times (also straight guy). I have an issue where I'll stop talking to friends for weeks (I get time-blind), then feel bad and worry about re-engaging. I hope you can figure out a good way to meet people. For me, I had a lot of luck leaning into the male friendship stereotype rowan mentioned where its more about a task. I do a language exchange on VR chat when I have time, I play games online with a friend of mine when he asks, I wait to get haircuts until my dad offers to go together. Sorry if none of this helps. Best of luck, bro

right? some catchup is good but you can make that fast riight?

Me too. I feel you.

Limerence can be unromantic. I experience platonic obsessions with people.

I really feel that too! The predictability of "once a week, every week" is SO important for feeling like the relationship is dependable. I have an ace-aro friend that I used to go to Ice Skating lessons with once a week, and that was a good few months. I felt, like, emotionally regulated, ya know? Totally understand that.

As a bpd person, that thing ain't something you need lol. A lot of people prefer the uncertaintly and won't see time as a distance, obssessing on people, friends or partner, tends to make people run away

please stop casually dating people you know youll never want to be with physically or emotionally . You are leading them on and thats horrible. Most people expect casual dating to mean SOMETHING romantically

@@katc2040 Obviously I tell them upfront "Hey, this will never lead to a serious relationship, I'm just looking to hang out" as well as clarify that in my profile on dating apps, you should always clarify your intentions on the very first date or before that if possible, regardless if you're looking for something serious or casual. Most people want dating to lead to something long term, sure, but there's also a lot of people who just want to have a fun time, usually with some physical or sexual intimacy thrown in, which I don't particularly need, but I don't mind at all either, and regarding sentimental stuff, I already said I do want to be friends with them, which necessitates being emotionally involded. I thought it would be clear I would only ever date people looking for similar stuff, and I don't appreciate the assumption that the only way I could possibly go on dates is by leading others on. I'm still good friends with pretty much everyone I have dated and so far no one has ever complained about how I handled it.

I don’t think it’s wrong to just want someone to listen to you though. It’s definitely important to communicate that, but not all intimacy has to be fixer intimacy. I think part of maintaining relationships is showing up in a way that’s helpful to the other person, and vice versa. There is a range of support and relationship that’s equally important to cultivate

People don't hate being helped. The desire to be heard and understood is separate from the desire to be helped. Sometimes people can solve their problems on their own and just need someone to vent to and be compassionate. Skipping the listening part and jumping straight to the solving part means you're not helping with what they really need help with - processing their emotions and feeling loved and cared for in spite of whatever is going wrong.

I try and ask, "do you need help with this, or to be heard?" (In a genuine sense) i often try problem solving off the bat in an effort to help. I used to be a "wow that sucks" person when i had less confidence in my words, but now i realize its a line to balance and we have our friends because we like their perspectives. I have had moments trying to just wax poetic, then to have it taken literally so it can be resolved. Sometimes just jiving and riffing is what we need as a friend in need, not an armchair psych or simple placid coaxes anyone could tell you.

I had a similar experience when I started college, and am actually going through a bout of back to back illnesses due to school deadlines and familial stress. I’m sorry that you’ve been so sick, and I wanted to suggest wearing a well-fitted mask to mitigate the amount of illnesses you might develop. I hope your stress eases soon ❤

What? Cant you just say Hi I come over and we fold your laundry or whatever task they are drowning in?

i don't think there is any point where it's "too late" for someone. i also have pretty bad social anxiety and there are definitely times where i've done or said the wrong thing to friends but you don't need to be perfect in friendships. actually going up and talking to new people is the hardest part for me, but even if i make some social misstep or something, people are usually more forgiving than you think. i really hope you don't give up, bc i 100% believe at one point, things will be better than they are today!!

Yeah, being home schooled can suck. The feeling that you can't relate, almost as if you were an alien who was drop on earth to live with the humans, eases up as you have more shared experiences with more people that are outside of your family. It's not too late for you, but I think you should try to make sure that the fear of "it being to late for you" doesn't turn into a fear of "This is my only shot at having a friend, so I can't mess this up." when you find someone that you click with. which could make it much harder to connect with them, because you may be focused on not doing anything wrong YOURSELF, and not focusing on being curious about them. I hope that my words have encouraged you a little, I know that being home schooled can feel isolating at times. but as long as you don't run away (this includes using your phone as a distraction in social situations, and avoiding social events.) when your social anxiety kicks in, I think you have a pretty good shot at making friends.

I’m in a pretty similar situation and also looking for friends :). I’ll add you in discord if you’re open to being friends with an internet rando

another former homeschooled person with social anxiety here too. there is hope! you’ll be surprised by how many non-homeschooled people also struggle to make friends. just keep growing yourself as a person, keep exploring, and try things you’re interested in. i personally find activity-based groups the easiest for me to meet people. biggest thing: start learning how to care for your mental health so you can be a good friend and so you’re less vulnerable to bad friends. you’ve got this!! i absolutely believe in you ✨✨

Honestly, this is the most insightful and reasonable take I’ve seen on this issue. I feel empathy for lonely men but a lot of them are in a prison of their own making and it’s not a woman’s job to break them out.

Your points are not invalid, but portraying the issue as a struggle between two monolithic forces is much of what has damaged the social fabric in the first place. Not to say there isn't value in systemic analysis, but we must be careful to not prejudicially generalize the experiences and assumed in/action of individuals. Anarcho-capitaliatic tendencies of past decades have seeded the majority of the current discontent and will continue to degrade humanity if left unaddressed. We have made great strides, in regard to civil rights, in this time (in the US), which would be extremely unfortunate to lose. If we misidentify the primary issue as being a struggle between men and women generally it plays directly into the hands of unscrupulous individuals whose goal is dehumanization and social division for the sake of shortterm profit for the few.

my mom is so lonely. she says she’s not, but i can tell she is. my dad is a buffoon and is a terrible partner for her. she barely has any friends. she moved next door to her sister, and they literally never see each other because her sister is always doing things with her other friends. i’m also very lonely, and when i confided in her about it she just said, “that’s how life is” 😢 kinda sad that she’s so accustomed to it that she has to pretend that she’s not hurt by it. i think we’re both on the spectrum

I dunno, I agree with some parts of the comment, it emphasises that the patriarchy breaks down people in very different ways, but at the same time there's that implication that half of the population can/should bootstrap and personal responsibility itself out of it and the other can't/shouldn't, and there's a clear misunderstanding of how/why the patriarchy really needs to break down boys the way it does, and what kind of long term damage it does. And it's like, yea, at this point no wonder why a lot of clueless men fall for Joe Rogan or Jordan Peterson type stuff, they have the same kind of personal responsibility talk, but even if you ignore their takes on the feminine dragon or whatever weird gender war stuff they're on, "just lift bro", "clear your room", or even bootstraping yourself out of poverty sounds more appealing and achievable than "work on emotional intimacy skills" in front of a wall and hope that billion of other men do the same and somehow get concrete results. But frankly when I see the torrent of homophobic abuse famous and aggressively heterosexual men get the moment they get drip and hug their homies in public I'm not optimistic, they're pretty much the only ones who can break some rules once in a while. And yea, therapy was mentioned, but again, if you think about it in gendered ways, it's something rich European patriarchs came up with to fix their wives and female relatives, and even after becoming a female dominated industry, and having gone through countless spin-offs in 100+ years, there is that inability to come up with brand new paradigms outside of things that may fix the proverbial Austrian bourgeoise, because it still somewhat fits the target demographic. But again, it may be a chicken or the egg scenario, and men culturally needing to bootstrap their ways out of things.

@@coolchameleon21 I’m really sorry to hear that. 😔 I hope you pursue neurodivergent testing/support and that you can curate a support system of people that helps you combat the loneliness. 🤗 (I’m on the spectrum too, and getting diagnosed/learning about it definitely helped me, as well as joining support groups that helped me know I’m not alone in my struggles. We don’t have to resign ourselves to loneliness, there are thankfully ways to combat it. I’ll be cheering for you!) 😊

I feel like I lost one to social media. They got more and more reclusive and deluded (especially as a result of the pademic) and when I drew a boundary boom, blown up and friendship ended. It hurt me more than any ex has.

If you have some spare time, and you don't have a phsyical disability. Then joining an amateur sports team can really help. Kicking the ball about tends to break down barriers. It makes things effortless. Which is why its so unfair that lads with injuries can't kick about any more, or they can't play as long as they used to. Its a bloody shame it is.

Underrated comment