the perpetual infantilisation of millennial women 

I just wanted to say I love that your pfp is a pile of cookies

🍪

god bless karmapilled!

@gnarlybrad8309 do you remember the name / social profile of the person who made it?

Cookie Queen!

I love this! I had to grow up way too quickly as a child and I also was conditioned to view “girly” as bad. Now, as an adult, I’ve been leaning more into “girly” things and it’s been so healing for me

@@tayter_chip I actually thought I'd get more into stereotypically girlie things along my healing journey cause I used to love them as a young child, but I've become increasingly more "womanly" in my interests. Things like pole dancing and hyperfixating on sw. Idk, I just find that interesting I guess it comes down to just embracing what you like, no matter how it's stereotyped

@@n.j.5044 I love that for you!! There's so much joy and power in embracing what you truly enjoy

To quote from Doctor Who, there’s no point in being grown up if you can’t be childish sometimes.

Seriously. And like... "grown up" in the 21st century generally means "predatory hypercapitalist who doesn't care about social issues". Being "mature" in the 21st century in general is defined by apathy and casual cruelty.

Omg exactly my experience 😭😭😭😭

Your parents probably have mental or personality issues. That’s not true for every millennial’s parents

As a 40 year old Millenial, I am painfully cognizant of the fact that I have far surpassed my silent generation/Boomer cusp of a mother in emotional maturity. There are aspects of my life that cannot be discussed with her, because she lacks the emotional depth to internalize them.

Same here.

just make sure you dont ran out of money and have to live with your parents.....that would be ironic....

My sentiments exactly!

you hit the nail on the head

I think you're right, but personally I feel and see the opposite - women (like me) disliking the term 'girl', whether applied by ourselves or pushed upon us by others, because it is often used as an insult - as in "you are not a woman, you are just a girl with all the traits a girl has". Another issue I personally have with this usage of the world 'girl' is that it is often applied to things that should absolutely be a part of an adult woman's life. It feels like further division, gives off (definitely unintetional) hints of gatekeeping almost. Another way of possible policing of one's behaviour, and I feel like it could give assholes another way of disregarding us: "this is what _girls_ do, not women, so are you a girl or a woman? can't be both!" I see these two main thoughts/opinions on the 'girl' trend, if one can call it that, and it makes me wonder if there is some sort of common denominator between the people that share the same agreement. My gut feeling is that people who would agree more with you were probably more likely parentified, and people who would agree with me were likely infantilised, but I have no evidence of that. It certainly is interesting.

@@aprilmichel7816 There was carried out a scientifical experiment to check, which words make people glad. Certain words have been said or read from the paper, and brain activity measured simultaneously. Funnily enough, the brains of most participants reacted positively, when the people heard/read a word "girl". Not "boy", not "woman", not "man". Girl. Just saying :))

I think the exact opposite. I think we baby our children well into adulthood and we see them as kids even as 20 something adults. We behave like they are still young teens when they should already be responsible adults. We let them rely on us too much for far too long and they grow up incapable of properly living in this crazy world and taking care of themselves let alone somebody else.

you’re very cool

Hell yeah! What fandoms do you write for? :0

@@cricketiiella Thank you!

@@asthejayflies l‘m part of the Tolkien fandom. :-)

42 and same. I’m embracing cosplay and writing fanfiction. All the time escaping to a fantasy world helps with my mental health, I’ll keep doing it. Also like a bit of causal gaming.

I also want to point out a correlation between being raised by mothers who were careerwomen constantly toting the importance of maturity and shying away from emotions to gain respect. In the hope of making 'strong women' the ability to be a vulnerable 'girl' is taken.

@@hgdoesthings3457 yes exactly! Thanks for your reply (:

@@hgdoesthings3457 Or, flip side, mothers with careers who didn't think about making their daughters into "strong women", just thought "here is another set of hands in my household that can take some of this labor". I don't think my mom was trying to get respect particularly hard, but she needed to pay bills, and I was available to do stuff like dinner or dishes or helping my younger sibling get homework done, and now I hate anything that reminds me of then.

‘Girly’ means ironically unjustifying pain?

​@@Nassifehomg stop calling me out. But for real, girls tend to become the second parent no matter which child they are. I was the the 2nd child with an older brother, 10 years older than me. Despite this, my mother expected me to look after my baby brother and do the chores. The only reason she stopped was because I eventually got old enough to say no or would run away. She fears social services getting involved so.😢

Yeah the whole video I was like "when is she going to talk about disabled people?" And then she did. I'm disabled and I'm 24 so adulthood is something I really struggle with. The fact that I have to rely on others makes me feel very unadult in a way I think most non disabled people probably don't. I worry about having to be dependant for my whole life in this way and I hate it because I feel like I loose autonomy and maturity. I am also autistic and the image most people have when they think of someone autistic is usually a child so I am often infanitlized for that.

Also expectations for adulthood are DEEPLY gendered. During the society-implicatingly long time I spent as a doxastic boy (Relative to how obvious it was that I was NB; I was about 14 and extremely online and found out that way after being hyper-obsessed with shapeshifting Star Wars aliens specifically because if I'm not allowed to be an enby I'll try to be a Shi'ido and eat a bunch of carby bullshit to get the extra flesh necessary for shapeshifting) I was bombarded with societal messages that pretty explicitly tied financial stability to adult performance of masculinity and (Having to work through several massive mental health issues before even trying to get a normal job) I'm only now realizing as I'm writing this comment that my feelings of failure for not having one were tied to externally-imposed expectations of an identity that I actively rejected, and compound onto also-societally-imposed feelings of failure for not being part of that category, as if I've failed the having-money-and-rectangle-pants test by just not fitting into the rectangle pants and my brain stopped working at this point. I hope nothing bad results from being emotionally vulnerable in a YT comments section. That would be terrible :P

Yes! same here.

​@darthszarych5588 Same!! I grew up dreaming of being my ideal - a single, strong and independent woman who didn't have to rely on anyone or conform to expectations. Then reality hit. Sigh.

I was hoping to see this quote here hehe

right. and never forget he walked with confidence because of the drinks he had in his hand. and that is also what destroyed his kidneys. its fun to pretend that you can be strong but dont think quotes will teach you how.

@acedianihil8208 "Do as I say, not as I do," - C S Lewis probably at some point i'unno 🤷

Childhood is not from birth to a certain age. And at a certain age, the child is grown and puts away childish things. Childhood is the kingdom where nobody dies. - Plagiarism, Bella Swan, Twilight

@@nadjaannabel1 “There's no point in being grown up if you can't be childish sometimes.” - The Doctor

This... resonates so much!

My boyfriend’s mother has been doing that to him ever since an accident he was in two decades ago.

I met my cousin after 13 years and we really clicked and had great conversations. She's been to Japan a lot and I know so much more about it than anyone she's met here in Europe, but when she asked if I was so interested because of animation I froze and my mind went blank because throughout my life people saw it as something childish and socially unacceptable to be consumed as an adult. I would have denied being into games too if I wasn't developing them but she was really supportive. A lot of older people 50+ really look at me like the biggest loser when I tell them what I studied my ass off for.

@@DerRabenbarde You are an artist and that is something to be proud of. Don't let them get you down.

I very nearly did get my adulthood taken away when I was surviving human trafficking as an adult with seizures but not running away and escaping and trying to commit suicide instead. It's hard to run away when you have seizures all day and are paralyzed from your seizures some of the time. Rather than rescue me and support me with mental health providers who would provide me a safe place to live, where I would eventually recover and leave and be an adult out in the world living my life as I am now, the police threatened to lock me up in a mental health facility forever and make one of the police officers or one of the human traffickers in my family my power of attorney who would make all my decisions for me. Obviously, they would have kept on raping me until I was murdered. Fortunately, that did not happen, and I did manage to escape, and then when I was homeless, people also told me that I was not an adult and abused me, which made no sense because by then I was in my 30s. Now I'm in grad school and I think people see me as an adult...though I am not sure? Most younger students think I am more adult than they are or at least as adult as they are. For the trans ones at least. I seem to be able to better make friends with trans men (biological women) than others. Everyone else finds me weird and doesn't want to be friends with an asexual like me. I have one bisexual friend. I just do not have too many friends. I try, but it's hard.

Personally, I have always hated that thought process. I remember being told as a child that someday, I wouldn't care about the things I loved anymore, and there were many nights I cried myself to sleep, thinking someday the things that brought me joy would be ripped away from me. It doesn't exactly paint a rosy picture of adulthood-an alien world deprived of anything a child would call fun.

@@OspreySoul I'm not sure what you're responding to but I don't think it's my comment? My quote is about how as you get older, you don't mind seeming childish and just pursue what you want.

adulting? really?

@@Arcessitor you're really going to comment just policing someone else's language use. Why don't you come back when you actually have something productive to add.

We have to stop thinking that being a woman equates to "no more fun" "must be soooo serious" "no time for play". We have to stop thinking that being an Adult equates to those ideas.

Exactly. Reminds me of the Spongebob episode where he tries to be an adult but feels unfulfilled and misses his grandmother's kisses and cookies.

@xXNekou 60yo mother of 2 amazing adult daughters here. I have shared with them about "adulting" and have agreed it's so overrated. I am able to hangout and have a great time with them because even though I'm not as agile as a 25-35yo, I feel as that age. In reality I believe most "adults"are walking youngsters just faking at being the adult in the room. A boring, bland adult might have been a boring, bland child (?), for whatever reason. Just do you, only embracing the responsibilities coming your way, which should be very empowering. I wish you the best.

Well said!

Hallelujah.

:3

This just feels like female weponised incompetence to get guys to pay for everything

Well tbh, they need to be careful because “embracing your inner child” without doing the work or labor to mature will keep you in a stage of arrested development.

Please tell me you told her that, because dropping out of college at 20 year old to marry a guy she's been dating for 4 months is not being an adult, is being an idiot.

@@poppyblue1512That’s her choice why are you being so judgmental? If she’s happy then more power to her. I don’t think we should put other people down to bring others up. Both are women regardless of what paths they choose to take.

@@sofiabravo1994I don’t think bringing up a lack of actually knowing your partner before you go into a huge financial decision of marriage is putting someone down. some actions are just unwise

I’d rather people be truthful and bash idiotic behavior than mindlessly side with it for the sake of being ‘nice.’ People being ‘nice’ and lying will get you nothing but reinforcement of poor judgement and misery

​@@sofiabravo1994if that was my daughter doing that shit I'm calling her out for stupid actions. Women should be doing the same for each other.

love that you enjoy capri suns responsibly 😄

I like enjoying capri suns irresponsibly - I am rebellious like that 😈 (but fr caprisuns were the first way of healing my inner child)

meee

Me too! kekeke :D

I love this!!! Woman in modern context has a negative connotation imo. As a "girl" we had to in fact strive to be feminine (a woman) to no longer be seen as a "child" we then try to get there too soon and feel the need to backtrack to be considered fun and equal to our peers (of any gender). However we also feared "women" as they seemed far more seductive, strict, headstrong, and organized. I think the word woman during my developmental phase was often someone that men feared more than desired if desired they had to be unattainably amazing? Woman feels too "man" focused. I feared growing into a woman, afraid I couldn't be fun, easy going and also the thought I would embark on having to hold up others responsibilities for their actions (mother, wife, community member). I also feared I could never really fully play the part. This is kinda a trope in media is the "mother" responsible figure in many T.V. shows such as Marge Simpson, who mostly try's to do the right thing however when she makes a mistake, lets loose, or even just takes a weekend for her self her family does horribly without her, she inevitably can not be her self since there is too much at stake (later seasons of course loose this). Although women are beautiful and strong there is a sense of tiredness and lack of freedom that is thrust upon them since their responsibility is far more important and mistakes are less forgivable than the male counterparts (starting usually when people start referring to us as young women). IMO Infantilization of women is merely a choice to be free from the less than the straight forward, responsible for everyone, bare minimum expectation of what a woman is. The use of the word "Girl" is a way us women can express our true self's, the part of us that was only and is only responsible for ourself, our girlies are expected to only look after them selfs, sad girl music is for our self, girl dinner is for the self, the hot girl walk is for the self! I think the "girl" is the inner child I want to make happy free from whatever the hell womanhood is, suppost to be, or represent

😂 we guys have dealt with the same judgement for "eating like a frat boy ( pizza rolls, tacos, etc) in the food we eat,it's judgemental BS.

And that is all I will say about us guys, as this is focused on y'all and your choices.. Reclaiming your own power through what you chose to eat should have never been ostracized ❤

@@SpinDoc420 what a little simp 😂

@@SpinDoc420 And that's wrong too king. Enjoy your pizza rolls and tacos. Screw anyone telling you your wrong for eating things that make you happy.

I did until brands started hopping on

these anxious statements are kinda funny to me bcus they instantly identify op as white, since they're the only people that actually care about housing independence. In poc families, or at least the Mexican ones I grew up with, it's typical to have children, parents, and grandparents all under the same roof everyday. This gives free housing + supervision to the older parties, provides the parents with some additional help with the kids, and generally maintains a sense of stability and community. Americans shunning this communal approach is why the majority are broke and sad, imo. You're doing great though my guy. As long as you prioritize what actually matters and keep in mind that falling back on your own family isn't shameful, you'll be ok.

​@@80s_graffitithis sentiment more heavily depends on ethnicity/economic status rather than race. Italy, for example, has a lot of intergenerational homes. A lot of recent immigrant families are particularly obsessed with class markers, too.

@@80s_graffiti I'm not the least bit American but living with your family implies you'll be forever trying to live up to their standards, but the times have changed and not the standards. the "supervision" you're talking about feels like hell. Especially if the family housing is small and not their own either but rented, and if you're craving solitude and calm and have a life rythm radically different from them.

I wouldn’t worry too much, plenty of 18-26 year olds still live with their parents because it’s just so expensive to move out. Just use the time to save up

Multigenerational houses are also hotbeds of resentment and conflict. There are good things and bad things about living with or not with your family, and one of the most serious downsides is the pressure that gets put on you as a "kid" even if you're a grown-ass adult

I hope to reach your power level, you're a goal for me right now.

that sounds delightful :3

High tier girling. Sounds lovely!

damnit i want storytime!

Nothing kid-like about it. Listening to story time is great.

as a gen z-er, this warms my heart 🥲

My mom has had all my sisters and I move out only to move back in at different points over the years. She can't believe how expensive everything has become and how much things have changed over the years. She's even experienced some of the changes herself. After retiring, she decided to sell her house during the pandemic and buy one that better suits her current needs. But she had a hard time buying because she doesn't have a job. Apparently it doesn't matter that she worked at the same place for over 30 years and is retired because she's in her 60s. She needed my sister who's a nurse to co-sign for her. Absolutely insulting, imo, to treat the retired like that. Those people worked their whole lives. We live in Ontario, Canada, so I can't say if that stupid retirement = unemployment when buying a house thing applies anywhere else. But it's something worth looking into for those nearing retirement age who are considering buying a new home, as you might need to do so sooner rather than later. Things have gone crazy for people of all ages.

They're not Millenials, they're Gen Z. That's huge difference.

@@gypsywoman9140 It is unfortunate that the world economy has settled into invest-and-squeeze mode. I had to move from a "liberal" state in the U.S. to a massively "conservative" one because I couldn't afford to live in the former any longer and am only able have a place to live in the latter because I share a home with two other adults and my son. My Mum, who'll be 80 next year, only has a home because one of her sisters married a man with rare and highly-valued skills in nuclear engineering. I can't take care of her, and nor am I able to sufficiently support my children. If I hear one person more, in my presence, say something about "lazy kids these days" I will let them have an earful, I declare. Our respective economies demand that you breathe, while choking the life out of you.

Your kids are in gen z, but I think gen z can relate to this too, though in a slightly different way

Realising the inner child never really left is one of the most powerful things either gender can do. We just get more mature and along the way but our core remains no matter how much we twist it to appear mature. Elderly are a good example of this, the older they get the less fucks they give and they reconnect with themselves

Many guys love their various collections. The collectables may vary from dude to dude, but they are not to be messed with. A lot of work went into accumulating and displaying those. I'm glad the Barbie movie is simultaneously giving Ken his time to shine (I will be disappointed if Mattel does not release bad-ass Ken in the pimp coat and his Mojo Dojo Casa House) and letting women enjoy their inner girliness all over again.

I agree, I also notice a lot of guys embracing more 'childish' interest like video games and anime shamelessly, I think we as a generation just don't feel like adults and want to embrace the things we liked as kids to escape!

tbf "the men and I" doesn't have the same ring to it

I never gave it much thought, but I've seen this too. I'm 31, but realized I also tend to say "guy" or "dude" when referring to myself instead of "man".

You're so right about everything. What annoys me is that so many responsibilities are pushed on us, even from a young age, while men are free to act immature way into their old age and nobody bats an eye or judges them, it's even expected from them to be unreliable in many areas. In some less developed countries it's even normalized for them to be a drunk or a cheater and they still get more respect from people for doing the bare minimum, while somehow everything a woman does is more times than not, taken for granted.

"by reclaiming girlhood, we're reclaiming a more authentic part of ourselves" is so beautiful and true, I think

"that just loved what she loved without shame" 43 yo here, and that hit hard. Felt so seen. Thank you. ❤

This just feels like female weponised incompetence to get guys to pay for everything

I'm getting my PhD in biology, making me the first person in the family with one, and although they are somewhat proud of that, I find what you said extremely relatable. All they want to talk about are these life milestones and why am I failing to achieve them at 30.

Yes!! Part of the reason I put off getting my masters degree. I felt way behind in being an adult because those around me especially family told me things like “you’re making a career out of going to college” and “you’re an old maid, women rarely get married after 30”.

I got a lot of the same until I turned 30 and got a career in my field. I had to tick both boxes, (be over 30 and gainfully employed in my profession) before I was treated like an adult. It was frustrating to see others get that respect sooner because they had children, but I also personally feel a lot more mature/stable than those women who had kids early. I'm really glad stayed on my own path.

I hate so much the idea of a one size fits all and it sucks that they see your Masters degree and go "but no kids tho???" Like you got a whole degree 😭😤😤 Everyone in these comments is so smart and I hope y'all keep living how y'all want bc you deserve happiness 🌷💖💕

​@@ashh1371I HATE when people think life ends at a certain age. You can most certainly find someone to be in a relationship with past 30 y/o!! Age doesn't matter to do whatever you want when you want 😤😤😤

Same here

Same here, I'm 29 and still living with my parents (who don't have a house of their own either, we all live with my grandparents) and I don't feel like an adult, I feel like a daughter

Same. Lack of total financial independence makes me feel like a child. It’s a weird limbo to be stuck in.

​@@VoltaMagicaSame.

But why. Is being called a woman all that bad? To me womanhood and girlhood means the same thing but i prefer to say girl instead of woman because woman have “man” in the word. I would call a 65 year old a girl too

You have to stop and consider what traditional "womanhood" means - stuck in a kitchen, dealing with a gaggle of kids and subservient to your husband. The term "womanhood" brings with it a bunch of extra baggage that a lot of women aren't interested in taking on. Of course the term "girl" also has some negative cultural connotations, especially when applied to grown women. Of course those connotations are also ultimately rooted in patriarchal thought, they tend to be more about sexualization rather than any real expectation, and that goes pretty well with the concurrent growing acceptance of female sexuality.

@altrag I didn't say anything about "traditional" womanhood. The silly people who push that ahistorical "ideal" mainlined too much 'Leave it to Beaver' style propaganda. I know that womanhood has been understood a myriad of ways by different cultures at different times, and I've never elected myself to the position of deciding which one is "correct". What I am speaking to is the persistent message that aging is something damaging to women, that all your value lies in youth. I want to celebrate every stage of women's lives. I want them to feel that, from themselves and others.

@@t3tsuyaguy1 > I didn't say anything about "traditional" womanhood The word itself is "traditional". That's the point/problem. > The silly people who push that ahistorical "ideal" Are the ones who want to see women barefoot in the kitchen with a baby on their tit. Using their terminology only empowers them, even if you personally want the word to have a different meaning. > deciding which one is "correct" Its not about any definition being "correct", its about the definition that's popularly accepted - or worse, popularly propagandized. > I want to celebrate every stage of women's lives Then do that. Just pick a word that doesn't come with so much baggage. Or better yet, celebrate in a more meaningful way than just applying some arbitrary label based on equally arbitrary metrics. Unless of course you're in the camp who believes a "real woman" should be barefoot in the kitchen with a baby on her tit. Then that's exactly the word you should use I guess. There are certainly people (including women - I'm sure you've heard of "tradwives" by now) for whom that form of "womanhood" and all of its patriarchal baggage is indeed the ideal. And that's not a bad thing - for them. For anyone else, we just need to accept the fact that the specific word (or at least the baggage it comes with) has fallen out of fashion and needs time to gain a new positive connotation, if it ever does. (Also, I'm fully aware that it seems a little odd for "woman" to still be an acceptable term while "womanhood" has unavoidable baggage. Language is weird sometimes.)

One of the classes required for my engineering degree was called "professional practices" and the woman they had in to talk about being a woman in the workplace was all about how to be better than a man at a man's job and also that we women should hate all men for making us work harder to earn less and be less respected, it was just awful. Turned me off the word "feminism" for decades. And I grew up conditioned that anything feminine was weak and undesireable and that being more like a man was the only way I'd be worth anything, it's only in my 40s that I'm starting to really embrace a lot of things I'd put aside (like the colour pink) as a girl and now am just doing things I enjoy, whether it's auto repair or crocheting, woodwork or sewing, drywalling or baking.... it's just things, they don't have to be gendered, and there's nothing weak or wrong with being a woman or doing things traditionally feminine. But that took decades to figure out, and it's stupid that I was conditioned that way in the first place. I'm glad you got positive affirmation for aging, I got told "wear a bra" and "dress your age" at work.

@@bunhelsingslegacy3549 That's my point exactly. Many of the messages our society sends women at every stage of development are terrible. I'm not saying women should change their attitude. I'm saying the treatment of women should change. I'm sad that your experience seems to be the norm. It hurts.

Not much foresight. I was taught the same thing growing up. I didn't realize how fucked it all was until I was 18 and moved out already. And that was only 2 years ago

Maybe if you didn't spend a third of your income on eating out you'd be able to save for a house

​@@killjoyprose6802name checks out

@@killjoyprose6802Yeah because being able to afford a cup of coffee is equivalent to being able to afford a downpayment on a house. Absolute moron

@@killjoyprose6802A house currently costs a larger percent of average income than it did than even during the Great Depression. There has quite literally never been a more difficult time to afford a house. You then couple that with prices, especially for school and medical care (in the USA), exponentially increasing while wages have been stagnant for decades. You’re insane to think it’s “eating out” that is the problem. People are working a job and a “side hustle” just to barely afford a 1 room apartment and basic cost of living.

I was diagnosed asd 1 at 27, and I feel you. It's also hard having all of this go on while I have gen z siblings that are transitioning fairly well. It feels like my autistic struggles are being looked upon as just being a lazy entitled millennial. My siblings don't seem to be autistic l but even if they are, we aren't all the same anyway. No point trying to educate allistics that refuse to learn and believe.

Im an adhd gen z with potential autism as well and I totally get you. It’s hard to feel like an adult when adulthood is defined by arbitrary social expectations that neurodiverse people naturally gravitate away from. Couple that with Poor social skills adding to that feeling of incompetence and boom, a 20 year old feeling like a child.

10000%

I think you’re amazing. I’ve never been diagnosed spectrally but I’m completely in agreement with you

Neurodivergency seems to especially trigger this feeling in many older adults for some reason, even if they may deny that it's real or that you have it. "That's not you, you're just lazy" meanwhile someone who's doing exactly the same thing as you but is neurotypical gets praised even if you're doing exactly as you were told while they do what you wanted to do. I have an older sibling who dropped out of college, but my choice to not go in the first place knowing it wouldn't be for me is somehow worse and creates so much more strife with everyone I tell it to

It's just another word. I truly do not feel calling yourself a girl means you fear womanhood or adulthood. Golden Girls exist for a reason. I'm about 40.. I work 75 hours a week, I take care of my home, I raised my kid into "adulthood" themselves so I will dress how I want. I will eat and do what I mf want. I'll call myself a goddam girl if I want. It's not about appealing to men or feeling younger. (Believe me, I don't) It's a word. "I don't want to adult anymore" has always been a joke. Not to be taken seriously..I truly do not care whether someone calls me a woman, a lady, a girl or shit, even old. It's just a label. Maybe it's once you get to a certain age you just stop giving a shit whether it's whatever everybody thinks men want or don't want from us or what society wants or doesn't want from us..fuck em all, I say.

​@@Nicole-zh7plI think youth is something nearly entirely unrelated to age, something much more shaped by experience and attitude. For example, for the most part, i feel incredibly old and worn when i'm around the vast majority of people, but mainly men, except for a few, who take a bit longer to make me feel tired; while i feel spectacularly bursting with life and energy the more time i spend by myself, or with like-minded women/femmes. It's kind of like the war on pink and femininity as a whole; it's more than possible to do very strenuous and very necessary work while maintaining youth (which, again, has little to do with age, and even less so to do with bodies - bodies have never mattered much to me at all)

Honestly I didn't truly feel like a "real" adult until I was about 25 and then had an early life crisis 😂

I genuinely feel that certain people cannot grasp the concept of irony

​@@Nicole-zh7plgenuinely, hope i grow up with your attitude

Yes how many times in media is the loss of virginity/start of menstruation seen as "Oh you're a woman now!" It's like they expect children to flip a switch and let go of girlhood, let go of childhood. It's so weird when you think about it.

Fr when I got my first period I was afraid of people knowing and calling me woman or ""celebrating"" my marker (into transition) to womanhood ... I really hated it , despite having a period I was very much still 12 , waaaay more a (early teenage)girl than in no way a woman!! I hated the feeling of being adultified , I was just a still somewhat little girl, I also hated the fact of becoming a woman societally wise I knew people were gonna be stricter as I grew up because "I'm no longer a child but a little youbg lady and must act like one" and also the fact of people mainly(older creepy predatory) men commenting about my looks especially if sexually and I indeed got catcalled way more as an early/mid teen than I do now as an older teen (19) ... nowadays I have no problem calling myself a woman and I hate it now when people infantalaze me, but I still get to call my self girl from time ti time because now, *yes* , I am transitioning from girlhood to womanhood and feel comfortable acknowledging and me and others *fairly* stating that at 19 yo not at freaking 12yo ,which is the normalization of the *predatory* mindset that still keeps making child brides happen around the world... you don't tell a young 12 boy that he's a man now because his phallus has started to grow due to the start of puberty nor when he gets his first pubic hair or has his first ejaculation wether to some wet dream or his first time touching himself, so don't do so with 12 young girls who get their first period either. I really wish people would stop adultifying children, regardless of gender but especially on young girls since they usually are the ones thar suffer most from it. Thank you for kind words❤they were very healing.😊

As an aroace girl I felt that deep to my bones

And the once you've had all that done to your body, there are people out there that don't deem you a woman unless you've given birth (genital oriented again.....) And if, like me, you will never do that (and are taking steps to ensure it) you are "not a real woman". I don't like this realisation though that pretty much all markers of womanhood are related to your vagina.

i actually feel the opposite. ive been an adult for 5 years now, and it frustrates me to no end to be called a “girl”, especially by strangers, when i am a grown woman with a womans body who has sex and makes her own decisions in life. i dont look like a “girl”, i dont live like a “girl”, i am a woman. then again, when it comes to finances and my living situation, im not at all in a place that an adult is expected to be. maybe im just trying to affirm my adulthood wherever i can to make up for that.

See, men can't have that. Society would crumble into dust, if we started believing this.

@@Mossy500A in my opinion the problem is y’all don’t believe it and you’d rather believe the BS that society feeds. Y’all stay miserable and unhappy instead having balance of joy and hardship, responsibility and play.

@@nonnieJ94 We work to find that balance, but not at the expense of our greater obligations.

@@Mossy500A I never called for any adult to abandon their obligations 🤷🏾‍♀️

I needed this comment

omg some random lady at Walmart sarcastically remarked "the joys of being a woman" when I was literally just grabbing a pack of pads while with my mom, honestly kinda uncomfortable cuz I'm nonbinary :/ I don't know why middle aged white women in grocery stores feel like it's appropriate to say stuff like that to strangers unprompted, when I was a little kid a lady made fun of me for "sticking my butt out in the isle" and I've literally been self conscious about that ever since 😐

Exactly this. Honestly I always try to explain it and you did it best.

Perfectly put thank you

Well put

Holy shit, you just put my feelings about my gender into words.

Same for me

You are an adult, just not one who was given the proper tools. It saddens me how many people were not taught how to cook for themselves, do laundry, and other essential household tasks. Maybe I should make content for this 🤔🤔

we literally are on the SAME boat. i feel you hard on this one. it is truly very hard to be independent after being dependent all your life. adult life thrives on being independent so life becomes difficult. but you can do it though, we can do it

Same. My parents were so controlling and I’ve had to learn to be independent

Same, even in my gender identity I feel more comfortable with demiBoy than something like demiman, I don't properly feel like a man even tho if I'm around younger people I do feel like an adult

I'm 40 and I can't say I feel like I've yet earned the title of woman. I certainly look like one and was born female. I've given birth to two children. But most of the time I don't feel very grown up. I don't feel like I have my ish together. I always viewed women (when I was young) as having their ish together and being a lot more grown up than I feel. I can't afford a vehicle, so I don't have a driver's license. Growing up, the women I knew drove. It's hard to feel grown up when you still need to bum rides or miss out if you can't get there. Or not knowing what I'm going to do when my parents are eventually no longer here. I rely on them too much, asking for financial help here and there so my youngest doesn't go without. (My oldest doesn't live with me.) Knowing that one day my kids are going to be coming to me for help like I do with my own parents and I don't know if I'm going to be able to help them like my parents have helped me. I'd like to. But most months it's a struggle just making sure we have enough groceries to last until pay day. I know I'm not alone in these struggles. I hear/read similar things from others. Just today I was talking to a mom of 6 who recently had to move back in with her mom even though she works full-time. The struggle is real. Its no wonder fewer people are choosing to have children. Those of us who have kids sometimes can't help but ask ourselves "What kind of world did we bring them into?" Not everyone will admit to such thoughts, ofc, and will act all indignant. Those are usually the ones living either in denial or in comfort. The rest of us? We're living the struggle and want better for our children...and ourselves.

@@gypsywoman9140I’m 37 and still live with my parents (which also allows me to have my kitties). I have driving anxiety so while I do keep my license active, I don’t have a car of my own and don’t drive often. My parents drive me most places. My anxiety and depression sometimes makes me fear what will happen when my parents are no longer here. What will I do, etc.? I’ve been single most of my life and have no kids. When I was younger, part of me wanted kids someday and I used to think I’d be married and have them at my age. Instead, I’ve never even had a first kiss, let alone experienced anything more (it started out as wanting to wait and eventually turned to nothing changing(happening); I want to have those intimate experiences and feel like I’m behind. As I’ve gotten older though, I’ve been leaning toward no longer wanting children for various reasons. I think I would rather stick to having pets. I don’t think I would be a good mother and don’t feel mentally mature enough to handle them. I would be afraid a potential child of mine would see me as a failure for my driving anxiety and I also wouldn’t want them to possibly end up with anxiety and depression as well. The world is also a crazy place right now. And yes, I do selfishly also enjoy my free/alone time. I also hate being in charge of other people (likewise, I would not want to be a manager at a job). There’s still a small chance I might someday have a child, either biologically or by looking into fostering or adopting. It also might not ever happen. While part of me feels bad that my parents might never become grandparents (my older brother also has no children), I also know that nobody should have children expecting that they will someday be grandparents because there’s no guarantee.

Well said. And it’s exactly the same for boys/men.

@@gypsywoman9140As I have gotten older, the more I have realized that my parents did not have their ish together, as you call it. They were just doing the best they could, while trying to deal with all of the stuff adulthood required of them. And they messed up in many places and they did great in other places. As kids, we think and often are taught that adults know best, but now that we are an adult, we know that was just something said to make kids behave, and wasn't necessarily true. And with social media, we now have evidence that adults don't always know what's best. The illusion of adults having their ish together has been broken. And here we are, wondering what that all means.

THIS! I’m 30 (so millenial) and I call all stupid adult tasks as “adulting”- scheduling dr appointments, making a budget, paying my bills, reviewing credit card statements, maintaining my car, etc. calling it “adulting” stuff for some reason makes it less awful, cause I recognize it for what it is- things I don’t wanna do but as an adult, I need to do I can enjoy the rest of my life of having fun, relaxing with family & friends, and having hobbies. I give myself a small treat after doing an “adulting” task and I don’t mind doing it as much if it’s in this little adulting box

Yes! I needed to read this comment. I feel seen.

Totally agree!

there's a chunk of the market that is really glad a lot of you are willing to pay for their products to "help" you reclaim it

@@s.durbar1294 good thing that's not what I'm talking about. GTFO here 😂

Omg?? I'm experiencing this rn

While we gained a lot from removing gender from the equation, we've also lost some. It feels like people thought, "If I can't teach women to cook, I might as well not teach anyone to cook." Like, no. Teach EVERYONE how to cook jfc And there is definitely a huge amount of hoisting responsibility off of parents in the home ('cause they are both now at work all day) and onto teachers, who have only so much say in what they are teaching kids. So we get a huge gap in the applicability of standardized education.

Very much so! I wish Rowan would’ve dived into the loss of education more-both in actual schools and in hands-on apprenticeship work. So much of “adult” skills used to be taught to you by a parent OR by an employer/mentor (how to use a copy machine, professional writing, financial skills, etc). We’ve lost a lot of that 1:1 hands-on training of passing skills from generation to generation, which contributes to the feeling of being undereducated and underprepared for adult life.

I wish my mum taught me tbh, there's so much more than just the skill. Like the stories and warmth and interaction.

My school had home ec classes for everyone. They were actually some of the most popular classes because you got to eat whatever you cooked. We all learned how to sew, cook, make a job resume, and balance a budget. It wasn't a gendered class, the first level was required for everyone, but most everyone wanted to take the level 2 cooking class.

@@NoiseDay We gained nothing from removing gender from the equation, except misery and a generation completely out of touch with their own nature.

a shame it got named Lolita, considering that’s literally a reference to a child being seen sexually through the gaze of a horrible man

​@@WishGender A bat (🦇 the animal ) or a ( baseball ⚾ ) bat. Two words that have different meanings depending on the context. People were named Lolita and Dolores way before the Russian book was written, and people are still named like that to this day. While I get where it's coming from, the idea that an obscure Russian book popular in some parts of the west is THE ONLY WAY japanese people could have heard the name is.... Well... Odd? There is this notion that every other country is obsessed with the trends from the USA. Obviously American media has a lot of influence but don't take it to this extreme. It's just an odd way to treat other cultures.

@@WishGender "lolita" was just picked as a victorian english girls name, since the style is heavily influenced by victorian english fashions for girls and dolls. its an unhappy coincidence

Yup, men actually hate the fashion in Japan too and considering a lot of gender issues in Japan and the weird expectations of women the fashion is pretty interesting

​@WishGender good book tbh, shame what movie ads did to it's messaging.

This exactly 👏🏻 Yes, I think some in the baby boomer generation are legitimately happy. However, the amount of times I’ve heard “you just get on with it” … I sincerely wonder about the actual happiness found.

"Hopefully we will yet redefine it as something worth being." Yes. 100% this. You hit the nail on the head. I am for the most part asexual aromantic so most of what I feel pressured into, as part and parcel of being an adult (getting married and all that) doesn't resonate with me. But society makes us feel such shame for that still. It's only recently that I learned about the concept of "amatonormativity" and basically forcing the idea of romantic relationships on everyone and making it so utterly culturally pervasive. And that amatonormativity suits a capitalistic society, because it makes sure that everyone pairs off and mostly just cares about their own life and their partner and children. The nuclear family model disconnect us from our neighbors, our larger communities, and the fight for social change. Anyway I forget what point I was trying to make but totally agree with you. 😅 Like, can we change adulthood into something else already? What about those of us who don't follow the traditional models and thus don't have models to follow?

@@Allison_Hart Thanks! As a demisexual lesbian, I'm vibing with you here. The idea that the best way to raise children is to make them the property of two people who at least once had sex... IDK about that model 😬 maybe just no General too, normative measures of success in a culture of exploitation and hate... gonna pass thx so much

@@Allison_Hartooooh that is very interesting! Bout to grab my bong and jump down this rabbit hole

I'm a 36 year old millennial (mostly female presenting) and I am called young by everyone and treated as if I am a young kid in college.

We are the same age

It’s honestly kind of depressing to realize how many older adults never really learned how important independent decision making is, or learned it too late.

They probably counted Pennie’s and didn’t go out to eat or get Starbucks everyday

I'm 25, just moved back in with parents and am still struggling to get a associates degree(ADHD is fuuuun). I feel ya...

@@donkeytime4263they probably weren’t living through one of of the worst economic recessions in history, entering an extremely oversaturated labor market, or going into life long debt to get a college degree. but no, i’m sure all young adults are just all collectively eating out all the time despite the fact that their full paycheck barely covers rent.

@@donkeytime4263and you probably know nothing about the way the economy works at all

​@@donkeytime4263Look, some people may be like that because dumb people exist, but the majority of people who struggle with money aren't gonna buy a lot of expensive things. You know that. It's just easier to find something to put poor people down with that feels like a moral failure to say they are lesser, than to help them.

A lot of parents of people around our age have been parents since they were very young themselves, their “maturity” has been linked to their being parents since they only just entered adulthood themselves. A lot of parents cling to that idea of protectiveness and parenting because that is how they have defined themselves as adults for as long as they can remember and as such infantilise their adult children because they can’t let go of that identity. That isn’t to forgive her for not recognising you and your maturity until that moment, far from it - it’s a level of self-involvement and an inability to see outside of themselves that often typifies the generations before ours - they were never encouraged nor expected to look outside themselves because the importance in their youth was directly focused on hitting those milestones, so they often haven’t taken the time to do so.

THIS.

my mum had similar 'compliments' for me (single woman, probably ace) when i was was about 40. it didn't feel like a compliment.

Tbh I have been feeling lately like if you are a woman you just can’t win in this world. Like…okay I don’t have a degree (yay controlling parents and a mother who didn’t want me to outshine her!) but I ended up marrying someone who I swear has got to be either a benevolent extraterrestrial or a very kind robot because ain’t NO man so good as him, and we own our own house outright, and we don’t have debt…but guess what people still treat me like I am two years old. It doesn’t matter how much you succeed. It doesn’t matter if you break the rules or if you stick to them. It doesn’t matter what you do. If you are AFAB or you are a woman you will never win, and you will always be treated like a baby by a large portion of society. No matter how mature you are, no matter how much money you earn, even if you completely follow the stupid patriarchal rules to the letter you’re STILL going to lose. So make sure you have as much fun in life as possible.

Having children doesn't make a person mature and there are planty of parents who pass their trauma and dysfunction on to their kids and never get therapy. I am autistic and don't have a house or a job and so I think you are doing well.

I have had chocolate peanut butter ice cream for dinner once. I was in a relationship. It was the end of a long hot day. I did not feel like cooking for myself let alone another adult who had two hands and decent culinary skills himself So I had ice cream. I don’t remember what he had.

Relatable, I try to treat women as women rather than girls because of how I feel when (usually elder) people tell me I'm "too young" to know pain. I'm 32 years old and still talked to like a teenager by the customers at my retail job. I've only been able-bodied since recovering from major surgery in 2020, I own two walkers, three walking sticks, and at least four canes because I had mobility issues for 15 years that got progressively worse, but the fact that I couldn't stand up without being in tremendous pain didn't stop old ladies from speaking disrespectfully to me because I dared to sit down on a bus. I've learned to avoid older people because it's maddening how little empathy they can have for someone "young".

@@kaedatigerI have chronic pain and can relate to a lot of what you’re saying. I get judged at times for not “doing enough” by people who don’t know me well enough to judge me. Thinking because I’m young that I’m just making excuses to not do much. But some days, I can’t do much more than take care of my pets, cook my food and brush my teeth.

@@emilyfeagin2673 In my house we have "free for all" dinners sometimes. It's leftovers or whatever we want to make or buy. My kid is 13 and is capable of feeding himself if necessary. My husband is also a grown man and capable. If I don't want to cook (I enjoy it usually) I tell them they're on their own and we all have at it lol

Yo! I resonate with this! Even in my own mind, I’ve had to start reframing how I see myself from “girl” to woman. I still do girly things though ❤

The without roommates thing gets me. I get along with my roommate but I increasingly wish I could spend my evenings in complete silence and have a fridge to myself and walk around my place nude.

I literally have 12 roommates and my room is really small. It makes me feel like shit, I never had my space at my mom's house, and as a 28 yo I still don't have my space and have to hear people sneeze through the drywall. It sucks.

Good for you!! You are the one who knows what's the best for yourself.. keep in mind your ideas may also change and that's ok too.. whatever you decide must be respected.. enjoy your life!

​@@Weyland_Punani How you take care of your own space is a direct reflection of who you are as a person and women are expected to be just feminine enough but not "girly" or, god forbid, "offensive". Her statement has many layers, but it means literally what she said: catering to male expectation of what a woman should be by, for example, making conscious choices to remove their favorite boy band poster or their most prized stuffed toys so that any potential male partner doesn't freak out over it instead of claiming their hobbies and interests. Maybe even choosing an unassuming colour palette to give off a "sweet and kind" impression. The fact you were unable to understand the deph of her statement shows how unaware and privileged you're as a man. While we are expected to ignore and even expect a trashy and smelly room, women can't afford being that careless, even mildly.

Oh my! I can relate to you in so many levels

If I ever found a guy to be in a relationship with, he would have to be supportive of my large doll and stuffed animal collection. I’m 37 and I’ve never stopped loving them.

@@wintersprite Fr, it you're going to spend that much time with someone, they have to be supportive of what you're into.

Indeed!

Double indeed!

exactly !!

👏👏

Xennial here...and the only reason we ate like that is because we weren't told how cheap rice, beans, and frozen vegetables were for stir frying with a little soy sauce. I could have eaten like a queen back when I only had $5.00 a month to spend on food instead of spending it all on ramen noodles and only having one package a day to make it last all month.

@@-._.-KRiS-._.- - I'm also a xennial, and I believe we all knew about bean, rice, and stir fry in our youth. $5/month could not have purchased 30 packages of ramen nor a month's worth of beans and rice. I was counting change to buy the most inexpensive food, and $5 could stretch a week of food, eating very little. You're exaggerating financially, and wrongfully acting as if we had no knowledge of healthy food.

Crackers, tortillas, and frozen pizza were expensive luxury foods, not for the broke. I was buying dry beans, rice, oats, and discounted produce. Prepared foods are too expensive for actually broke people. People ate junk food, because they wanted to, even though it costed much more money.

@@SpaceTrashCrash good for you if you had time to make a pot of beans when you were a teenager. in the ‘80s, Totino frozen pizzas were normally 2/$1…4/$1 on sale, ramen was 20/$1 on sale, frozen pot pies could be found at 4/$1. Mac and cheese was pretty cheap but we couldn’t always buy milk and butter. Cheese and tortillas were a splurge. Sure it is all processed foods but as teenagers we didn’t care, plus no one talked about the evils of processed foods back then.

About to be 21 and I have this thought every time I see a girl dinner tiktok. I'm not reclaiming my childhood I'm just trying to survive by throwing together whatevers in my kitchen

There is nothing wrong with it at all! Having kids just gives you an added justification for buying those cute plushies and sharing your favorite games and movies with a new human, but ultimately we still like those things and that's why we do it. People with kids just *only* get to do those things, so they are always longing to watch the movies and do activities that are for adults because they don't get to do those things as much.

There is nothing positive in hedonistic consumption as means of fillimg the void inside

I almost feel like this is the same with families and children, like I'd love to have a kid! But I'm economically child free because there's no way I could probably ever buy a house, give the promise of college when i couldn't get there myself, also, hesitant to marry because of financial strain and the fear of failure. And I'm almost 30!

I recently read somewhere about millenials not actually *knowing* what adult, in our time, means and actually looks like. because all we have is expectations of what it means to be adult from earlier generations, but that doesnt apply anymore. The world has changed so much that there is no role model for what becoming an adult looks like now.

​@@theinkyspoon That makes a lot of sense. The world is changing so quickly, especially now with the Internet, that there is no blueprint anymore

@@theinkyspoonsuch a great point. Needs a redefinition

it's because we're young that we don't feel "worthy" or "I haven't accomplished much yet" 🤷‍♀ every generation of young women felt that in their 20s, 30s and that's fine. My grandmother (she's not a babyboomer, she's older than that since she was born at the end of WWII !) even though she was working and had kids at a young age (18) and a "home" with my grandpa (a tiny and broken trailer before they could rent a tiny and old appartment, they bought a house *much later*), didn't feel like a "woman" in her 20s and that's ok

Also, like, look at the world falling apart around us, with fascism, poverty and globabl warming on the rise while the "adults" are doing nothing about it. Clearly "being an adult" doesn't make anyone better at making decisions, so what's the point?

@@cupriferouscatalyst3708 Poverty isn't on the rise (~38% of the world population was in extreme poverty in 1990, ~8% in 2019), fascism is in the open more than ever thanks to people being chronically online but it's not exactly a new thing, CO2 emissions have been starting to level off over the last 10-20 years. Taking the attitude of 'whats the point' can literally only serve to undo the very, very real progress that is being made.

⁠​⁠@@GameFreak7744 I know you probably don’t mean to be invalidating as you are coming off but there ARE reasons to feel hopeless. (I have a point hold on) For many adults now entering their twenties, they are the first generation of humanity who has had extensive knowledge of world events in the palm of their hands since birth. Humans are not equipped to have this level of awareness about so many problems at such great scale. The wealth disparity in America is percentage wise currently worse than the Great Depression, there’s active legislation to roll back what were once thought irreversible hard-fought-for rights, to roll back environmental protections that will worsen climate change in an already escalating crisis, and layer losing key moments of childhood and adolescence to the pandemic. It’s hard to grow up and despite all that, realize the current societal expectations are to continue to just go about life as normal pretending there aren’t major systemic issues. You can’t blame people for feeling hopeless despite overall upward progress when their immediate surroundings are getting more difficult to endure. Telling someone they’re part of the problem while they are having a VERY NORMAL REACTION to their situation is what actually contributes to the problem. Invalidating the experiences and trauma of today’s youth is one hell of a way to discourage them to keep their chin up and participate in change. I’m turning 30 next month. I didn’t get a smart phone till high school. I can’t imagine how it’s impacted people younger than me, as I’m currently still trying to find the strength to take care of myself as best I can, so that one day I can get back to the point where I can help larger causes. We gotta hold on to the little things. There’s still hope. Theres always hope. Humans would have gone extinct long ago without it.

@@GameFreak7744 Thank goodness global poverty is down, that'll totally help me afford a home here locally.

But nothing you like is childish. I'm a huge nerd. I love everything fantasy, sci-fi. I'm also goth. These are all things people would assume are "childish". Even my grandmother told me I "can't" me goth in my 30s bc I should be "more mature". It's not childish because you are choosing to engage with it because you like it. A child might dress goth to piss off their parents. I do it because it's apart of who I am. THAT'S the difference.

And it can be very easy to move the goal posts on yourself and compare ourselves to others. Like even in my eyes, you are so much more a successful adult to me because you have moved out and gotten married, where I still live with my parents. And for a while thanks to mental health I struggled to find a job and used to view that as adulthood, but now that I have one, I just moved the markers on myself and still don't feel like I'm an adult since I do still live with my parents.

@@maplepainttube8158 aww, yeah it's so easy to see what someone else does as being better than what we ourselves can do, and there will always be things that we see other people do and think "why can't I do that?", Like I don't think I'll ever be able to work, so to me that's a big thing and I think it's great that you're able to do that. It's good to have goals, but I think we often downplay the things we've achieved, so maybe we should both give ourselves more credit! 💕

I’m in my late 20’s and never even been on a date so I’d say you are doing fine

I completely understand what you mean and I just want to say you're doing amazing in my eyes. My current goal is to be able to afford my own place so I can proudly display my "childish" likes, I'm also in my late 20s and feel so trapped. For me adulthood has always been about freedom to be who you want.

exactly !!!!!!!! the milennials literally shamed all forms of stereotypical femininity the last 15 years so people are now calling everything “girl” because they are making up for lost time. idk why it has to be considered infantilization when it is very clearly about being happy and comfortable in femininity, even if it doesn’t look how it’s “supposed to”. it’s a way for feminine people to enjoy the little mundane things by embracing the “dumb girl” stuff that we were always shamed for

i am having the time of my life reclaiming and enjoying all the things i thought i was 'above' when i was NLOG, i'm just happy i get to be a girl.

Don't worry. You are not alone. I am asexual too. I feel mostly like a grown up but it can be hard even as a 40 year old for people to tell me that I am not truly a woman until I have had sex, gotten married and had children. They are sometimes thinking of me as adult with my masters degrees but sometimes to even with those because they have not resulted in jobs despite all of my efforts. They also tell me that I ought to do it in that order if they are not evangelical Christians even though I believe in abstinence and I am content to practice abstinence and celibacy as I feel heteroromantic feelings at times that may or may not eventually lead to some sort of grey heterosexual marriage. Mostly without sex but might have it sometimes like once per year if we feel like it, or maybe not at all. I do not know because I never did it before. But they will tell me how my sex drive is going to go way up once I am married and I am going to want sex 5 times a day which sounds horrible and something I wouldn't want to happen to me as an asexual girl. I have a hard time imagining kissing, crushes etc in my future too. It sounds gross to me usually. Although I have developed feelings for people at times and wanted to kiss them which I mentioned and then rather than slowly develop a relationship with me, they attacked me violently by rape with no kissing. Then I had seizures, bled a lot and felt like I was dying or tried to commit suicide after the rape and seizures and paralysis. Fortunately I survived each of those times but I think it makes me mostly feel like kissing is either gross or dangerous for me, an activity that could kill me or make me sick from the germs in people's mouths. I just have to accept that other people do this, and it's important for them. But that has nothing to do with me and my academic career and stuff I am trying to publish as an asexual celibate woman on a mission to take care of my health and get the medical insurance I need to handle my seizure disorder while continuing to try to get into PhD programs in the Environmental Sciences. I think I get infantilized a lot from things like she said, being female, being disabled, and being seen as Hispanic even though my DNA says I am mostly White with Hispanic and Asian heritage mixed in which is also really cool. People over emphasize my Hispanic stuff and my Hispanic - sounding name, and expect me to speak Spanish when I was raised as a White person, which means I can't really speak Spanish. Anyway I have been waiting my entire life to have the money and the resources to go to a specialist to get a doctor to diagnose me with an EEG for my seizures which is about to happen in a few weeks. Then I have to move to another state to see another doctor because my doctor is leaving the practice and I was denied Medicaid 3 times and I need to move to a state that has expanded Medicaid to include single adults living in poverty and not just those who the state has decided are disabled enough to not work. So I will technically be homeless and qualify under the government as living in poverty and renting in Airbnbs as I go to grad school online as I continue to look for work and try to get myself health care in this other state. During that time I can also apply for PhDs which will pay me to teach undergraduate classes and will give me health care and insurance. My current college does not automatically give students health insurance and I can't afford theirs or any other insurance for sale out there in my state. I live in a state that limited Medicaid rather than expanding it. I am paying for my EEG with donations I got on GoFundMe. I did Instagram live fees about how I survived human trafficking in my childhood and what I did for my thesis for my past masters degree in Sustainability. Then I asked for donations, through a friend's Instagram account because she offered to help and I was unable to raise money through my own campaign on my own Instagram. So that is how adulting is for me. Pretty hard to survive. But I get better at it every day. Locking the door to your bedroom and barricading it is very important because people will try to rape and murder you for your entire life as a single celibate asexual woman. You will get badly hurt if the rape does happen, and no one will provide you with any support. Most people won't believe anything bad has happened to you. The very people who you go to for support may scream at you, beat you, grope or rape you themselves or get a guy they know to rape you so they receive benefits for themselves (women will do all this too, not just men). You will struggle to heal from all the torture. So I hope that you get a good door lock like the ones you can put into the door frame wherever you travel to. You can find them on Amazon. Look up fork lock. You can make a lock out of a fork. Using a big piece of furniture like a desk is a good barricade. A backpack can be knocked over easily. Even if there is a glass of water sitting on the backpack that smashes on the floor when they try to break in your room to rape you, it's still not as good as a lock. I also got a pole from Brinks which fits into the doorknob of the door and has a foot to create a block. Plus, don't forget doorstops. And go to bed with a knife tucked under your pillow and/or a pepper spray within easy reach. I haven't used the pepper spray on the rapists and I got conned out of using it and then got raped anyway. I haven't used a taser pen in my bed but maybe it could work. It just looks scary to them so I use it to scare men off in the day time if they want to rape me. I worry if I put it in my bed, I might accidentally tase myself and that would not help with all of my sleep related seizures and nightmares and flashbacks from PTSD. But knives are easier to use, if someone climbs in your bed to rape you before you can get out of your bed and run away, and they are effective to stop a rape if you stab someone in the shoulder. I just used a pocket knife with a 1 inch blade. Just don't cut a major artery and you shouldn't get into any trouble and put in jail for use of excessive force. My friend got arrested for defending herself from a rapist and then the police abused her and they killed her baby in the prison which is fetus homicide. Police brutality is severe against us. You have to talk your way out of a lot of situations without the use of any type of force so it's good to learn persuasion and practicing at home how to stick up for yourself. But with rapists who are in the process of trying to rape you, you have to use force. I tried talking but it definitely doesn't work at all. Just know that the police might try to arrest you for defending yourself from a rapist because they want you to be a weak pushover or be the property of some man. They will actually ask you whose property you are, and who you belong to, as if you are a slave. They don't want to see you as a human being in your own right. I found the best answer to this is, "I belong to God and I am the property of God." They hate that. Then if they ask for another answer I say, "I belong to myself and I am the property of myself." But since I am Christian, I say, "God made me, and decided I should be embodied in this body but my soul was made by Him and belongs to Him and will return to Him when I die and leave the body behind on the Earth. This body is the property of my soul, temporarily, until it turns to dust and then it belongs to God again once it's dust and my soul has left it." But campus police are less misogynistic and male dominated heirarchy than city police, so you'd better get to a campus and stay there as long as possible, living there if you can. Campus police try to protect all the students equally without preferring to protect men more than women, or letting women get tortured or molesting women themselves. The campus police may have another problem, though, which is racism. Stay away from Palmer College of Chiropractic because it is full of rapists and even child molesters based on my experience there in California. Avoid work trades, world wide opportunities on organic farms, camping or park hosting alone in a tent, women's shelters, homeless shelters, churches that pretend to help homeless women but actually just want to rape homeless women, Catholic male clergy, and so on because these will all lead to rape, like they did with me. You can stay in safe Airbnbs with 5 star ratings from other women to avoid rapists. If only men stayed there, you don't know if it will be safe for you. I only met one host who tried to rape me in the Airbnb but he failed because I locked myself in the bathroom. Then I reported him and they banned him from Airbnb. If you stay in backpacker hostels, please stay in the all girl dorms only and immediately report to staff if you hear that guys in the mixed gender dorms are trying to have an orgy and you hear women saying no because someone is about to get raped and you need to throw then out. If a rapist in the backpacker hostel starts to stalk you and wants sex, tell the staff. If staff refuse to help, lock yourself in the bathroom and call police to arrest them. Here is the domestic violence hotline I use to recover from all my trauma. I hope it helps you. :) CARDV 1-541-754-0110. Open 24-7 in Oregon, USA.

@@lemurlover7975 Wow. That's such a crazy story. I'm so sorry to hear about all the horrible experiences you've been through, it's so sad that nowhere on Earth is safe from such archaic crimes, even the richest country in the world. It's so annoying how much more aro/ace people have to do to be perceived the same as an allo person. It sounds like you are very well educated and on your way to getting a PhD and people still don't even respect you just because you don't follow the "expected" route of a woman (marriage, kids). It's crazy just how many hoops you have to jump through just to survive and live as a single, childless person in America. And how many hoops women have to jump through just to not be taken advantage of. I really wish there were better systems for this but it only seems like it's getting worse. I wish you the best of luck on your EEG. Thanks for all your advice and for sharing your story, it was very courageous of you

I'm a lesbian, and I just sort of assumed I was bi in my teens & early 20s. My dating history is practically non-existent, since I would date a guy for like 2 weeks and then lose all interest without understanding why. It definitely leads to a feeling that I'm immature and behind in some ways.

@@lemurlover7975 Thank you for sharing your story. I am so sorry for the horror you have gone through. I don't know you personally, but I wanted to say how much I admire your strength. I hope one day we will be able to live our lives without needing to share such matter of fact advice that is, in fact, the embodiment of the horror of being female in this world. Thank you for your help on how to stay safe. I wish we did not need it, but we do. I believe I am probably asexual. But I don't have a life in academia, though it has often appealed. But even if these things weren't true, I feel that we share a commonality in life as women. Thank you, sister.

Wow, the last paragraph is so true especially.

No one knows exactly what they're doing.

Isn’t this the human condition?

@@JehanineMelmothYes!

I so feel this as another older millenial

This is very comforting thank you.

I think people have always felt like this. They just didn’t realize that everyone else does as well because there was no social media to be constantly pointing it out.

Right. One thing that's absent from this discussion is that people call themselves "girl" no matter their age, but they CLEARLY have an internal concept of what "girl" means socially because they'd never talk about other adult female people (I know that descriptor is bulky sorry) that way. Like, I don't think you would ever refer to a middle-aged woman as "that girl over there" if you had to point her out to someone. You would definitely never use it to introduce or describe another person in formal situations because when you apply it to another person it's condescending. Congratulations on nearing the completion of your PhD!

Right on!

We have an admin team who are exclusively female and the almost exclusively male management team refer to them as the girls in the office. As one of the management team I find this cringey and condescending. It feels like they’re implying their jobs are less important and therefore it’s just a bunch of girlies working them. I always refer to them collectively as the admin team or something similar. The term woman to me, infers adulthood, independence and autonomy. You can be a woman any way you want to be.

@@Gambole Kinda opposite of that, the team that manages our research centre is all woman. And it's just blanketly accepted (by men and women in every level) that they are the only reason why things get done at all, and that they're all beyond exceptional. One of the team is retiring next month and seems they're going to need at least 2 people to even try to replace her

Yep, fuck the pipeline. Marry for love! My husband and I got married at 20 and 23. We announced our engagement at his college graduation party when we were 19 and 22. I never moved out of my parents house, he moved in with me. We're 34 and 36 now, headed toward 14 years of marriage, and we still live with my folks. It's very much a real marriage, despite not having a house, kids, etc. We didn't have a ring when he proposed either, we got one together later, with my birthstone instead of a diamond, which was much cheaper. It was the recession though, so the price of gold still made me want to faint! 😵😅 We put in on a credit card and paid it off by our 5th anniversary. We had our wedding in the off-season on a weekday evening, and we did the food potluck-style. Even though we were young and broke, people still talk about what a beautiful wedding it was, and I'm sure it's because we centered the love. Your love is legitimate no matter your financial situation, and you deserve to celebrate it!

i really relate to this. i was a high achiever in school, but my parents didn't teach me how to take care of myself at all, then didn't help me once i was out on my own.

@@alisonjane7068 I learned a lot by taking home economics. I took sewing and cooking classes, but I married someone who had a car hyperfixatio. So between the two of us we could take care of a lot of tasks most kids were never taught. But we still had a lot of stumbling. I wish that before becoming adults kids learned the laws they are expected to follow. We don't even have drivers education anymore to learn traffic laws. 😒

thats my mom too, but im still looking for a rich husband.

To be fair what can you really achieve in life as a woman than have kids? Unless you are already in a promising career that is...

@@S3nCh4n have gay sex, for one

@@S3nCh4n kiss girls, for two

@@S3nCh4n protest, vote, call your representatives, consume as ethically as possible, for 3, 4, and 5

And you can eat just popcorn for dinner and not be hungry again 10 minutes later?!

A huge bowl of popcorn is my go to backup plan when I haven’t gone to the grocery store for 3 weeks

I watched it while eating a bag of chips for lunch!

Just know that every single workplace is simply High School 2.0. No matter the profession, it's high school politics and popularity contests all over again.

Off topic but I love your profile picture, Iguro and Mitsuri are OTP. Honestly if you’re that into Demon Slayer I think you’ll be fine! The emotional maturity pays dividends.

Are the 18 year olds that go straight into the workforce more adult than you? No. You are afraid of working full time because you have never done it before. You can’t be afraid of adulthood because you are already an adult.

I'm in the same situation, and it's very scary. you're not alone

Me too, except I never went to college. At least you have something to be proud of. Im just as lost, and even more afraid as health problems started popping up and is making my life harder on its own. Im terrified I’m going to develop a chronic health condition that will render me “useless” to society. Because you aren’t seen as a “real adult” unless you have a job and can take care of yourself. Well I guess I’m not an adult and will never be if I end up disabled…

You just described kpop fans...

Gen Zs are nowhere near as progressive as the stereotypes make them out to be. They're just as misogynistic and ageist as older generations.

Then stop reinforcing it even as a joke. It's not funny, and it doesn't make your arguments any better.

I mean at latest your brain finishes developing at 30 its not really a myth theres just a huge variance for it That being said its pretty disrespectful how people have spoken to you, i can gladly say ive never patronised a stranger who is older than me Youre allowed to have hobbies, the internet belonged to gen X before anyone and youre damn right my dad in his mid 40s still plays wow lol, hobbies are reflective of our youth more than anything and as we get older i truly believe we never lose love for those hobbies, theyre ours.

I am so happy you're getting better ❤️ I'm rooting for you. I'm recovering from something different, but I totally agree with the "my own milestones" take, and if you will allow this: We got this!

@@gluckbibor2839 I'm rooting for you right back! We *have* got this! I appreciate you

Goth is a MUSIC based subculture. Do you listen to Dark Wave, Ethereal, Post Punk, Cold Wave, or Death Rock? If not, then no, you're not a Goth. It's not just a fashion statement.

​@@Anonymous-wb3nzlook, if you haven't raided a Roman settlement at least *once*, you can't call yourself a Goth.

@@Anonymous-wb3nz Were you there at the Sack Of Rome? If so, you're not a goth, it's just a fashion statement.

@@paulgibbon5991 you're comparing the Visigoths of yesteryear to the music subculture today? Do you have some sort of tism or are you just a dumbas$? Goth isn't "fashion", poser. It's a literal music genre.

I'm a 32 year old goth of about 17 years. If anything I'm more goth now because I have money to buy what I like, more freedom to go to concerts, and a job with no dress code. I can sense the judgement of boomers and I welcome it tbh. If someone thinks I should give up things that make me happy and give my life meaning I dare them to come say that to my face! I had a phase in my early twenties where I tried to look "normal" and worked at an office job that I hated, trying to gain my parent's and employer's approval, and it was in hindsight a miserable waste of my time because people were never actually approving no matter how hard I tried, they always found things to complain about. A decade later and I learned my lesson, I just worry about making myself happy. I don't want to be on my death bed thinking about everything I missed out on because I was worried people would think it was childish.

i'm only 21 but what i've learned from various adults is that everyone's a fucking liar trying their best, acting like they have their shit together when they never do. i wish more of us could whole heartedly say fuck it, because clearly we all know nothing but we lie about it and belittle others and make up bullshit to gauge our life experience. each day i despise more and more letting anyone but myself and my loved ones tell me how to live my life or how i should feel about where i am. we could die from a frea accident at any moment, we could lose our loved ones to anything at anytime. spending time letting other lost souls that are confused as we are influence how we feel about our own lives isn't worth it. FUCK IT

Lol. I'll be 55 in a few weeks...I always looked forward to being 50, cuz then I'd have it all figured out 😂 I'm Just starting to scratch the surface

same (41 year old)!!! wonder what I'll be doing in the future...

I'm 38 and I still don't have it all figured out. Honestly, it's performance art of bust. Besides, life is short enough as it is, we all should live our passions in life. If you have a dream, go for it!

I’m 33 and I want to be a space cowboy.

You should be crying. Being a man/womanchild is not cute

im 27 and i relate to everything you just said. Even if I move out, I dont think i will ever be able to feel comfortable enough to call myself a woman, since I dont look like one nor do I feel like one.

I'm 21, and I feel and struggle with this too. I work part time, and am a full time college student. I don't make enough money to support myself, and am still a dependent in my household. I help my parents out where I can, like with cleaning the house, maintaining the garden, making dinner when they get home. I lend them money if they ever need it, sometimes I spend money on outings for us as a family like eating out or going to see a movie. But for the most part, I use my money to buy myself things I want, but really don't need, because I have a bad impulse spending habit. Which has increased exponentially both since I got a credit card six months ago, and the fact I'm in a serious relationship with someone my age who has a high paying job, and is willing to spend money on me. I don't even have a driver's license, and I'm starting to feel pressured to get one because my friends in my age group either already have cars, are buying cars, or are getting their licenses or permits. I'm definitely not ready to move out of my parent's house. I get these moments where I see myself in the mirror, and I look my age. I look like a young woman. I realize I am technically an adult. But I still feel compelled to identify with "girl" opposed to "woman". I don't really feel like I have the personality of a woman. And now that I'm really thinking about it, it feels especially strange to say as much when I look at my boyfriend of three years, because he's about four months younger than I am, but because of his work and how he carries himself, I see him as a man, not a boy.

There are many ways of being a woman. Yours is valid and you all are whether you like it or not. 🤷🏻‍♀️

I'm 37 living with parents and also don't feel like an adult. But I am autistic so we usually are infantalised anyways. Most people think I'm way younger than I am. And so I only have way old creeps hitting on me or people young enough I can be their mother. It's weird af.

Except you are one. And the whole "move right out at 18" trend was ONLY really relevant to -two- generations: Boomers and (older) Gen X. Prior to that, most families had adult children at home until they married and moved off (or sometimes...didn't move away at all). You are an adult. You are not a child. You are not a girl, you are an adult woman. Your life situation doesn't change that, especially because in the context of history? Your situation was the -norm-, not the exception. We're simply back to a time when most unmarried adults can't financially make it on their own (and yes, that really sucks, but it's nothing new in the grand scheme of things, though I could go on about how we're supposed to be progressing instead of regressing as a nation and a culture... )

It's weird, my experience as a trans woman has been the entire inverse. I also came out at 18, but am several years older than you. People always assume I'm younger than I am, to the point where people still think I'm underage despite having visible tattoos. The same applies online, people generally assume I'm around your age instead of currently eligible for the 27 Club if I don't make it to March. I don't see myself as an adult. All the bureaucracy out there just further intensifies it, because it's too damn much. It's like trying to have a conversation with someone you barely speak the language of. Tbh, I'm glad I don't see myself as an "adult". Very much in the "queer rejection" category. Also, is it just me, or are Millennials and Gen Z physically aging slower and are physically smaller than prior generations? I feel like with exception to giant dudes, we're all just smaller than Gen X people and look physically way younger than people our age in the 60s-90s? I see photos of teens and 20somethings from back then, and regardless of clothing (subcultures, 70s Playboy, etc) they all just look 35. And the average Gen X person seems to friggin tower over most of us. I feel a divide in "adult" still where we just physically do not look like them. They're massive and were wrinkling and balding by 23.

@@PosthumanHeresy I think height definitely plays a role in it. I am 6'3" (which gives me a ton of anxiety and dysphoria) but I think that definitely contributes to why people see me as an adult. And I have no idea if we are physically aging slower than prior generations, personally I would have guessed the opposite because our generations are much more stressed which can lead to premature aging but also I'm not great at paying attention to that kind of stuff. I really hope you make it to March and beyond!

Owning your own place is overrated...

What's really wild is just how new this idea is. For most of human history, unless you were extraordinarily wealthy, people lived with their parents until they were married and had kids themselves, and sometimes even then they didn't leave the family household. Multigenerational households didn't start disappearing in the Western world until after WWII, and it wasn't so much "disappear" as it was propagandized away in an effort to increase national populations after the horrid start to the century.

Being carefree and self expressive shouldnt belong to us gen z and i hope anyone of any age can feel more comfortable being themselves now that its becoming more normal. Youre not too old to be who you are, and you certainly dont have to live your life the way your mum wants you to! Its your life and if anyone has a problem with you trying to be happy then damn then.

I think a lot of the older generation don't view millenials as "adults" either, though. It's not that they feel "trapped" or miserable. Many of them are quite happy and content. It's that they think we're still "so young" when we're not, and if we spend all of our time on fleeting passions rather than buying a house, saving for retirement, etc., we are not setting ourselves up for success later on. We are too miopic and don't plan enough for the future...

Do whatever you want!! Buy that house! It’s so messed up when you share something that for you is good news and your parent hijacks it and turns it into a criticism of you, that’s gross and you don’t deserve to be treated that way, especially by your own mom.

Thank you for putting this feeling into words. I'm a queer 42-year old introvert single person who lives by myself. I love my life as it is, but I also have occasional moments of looking around me and feeling like an alien because I have missed all the societal markers of being a "proper person" - marriage, kids, mortgage, constant busyness, or even some sort of aspirational/creative/humanitarian achievement. Some things I remind myself of at that point. Other people may seem to have it worked out, but everyone has their own hidden struggles and is muddling their way through life. In reality, nobody thinks about or cares what I am doing or not doing - they are focussed on their own stuff, and that is very freeing. There are pros and cons to every way of living life. It doesn't actually matter.

If you are in a situation where you can see yourself saving for a house - do it. Vacations will come and go, and you will have opportunity to travel. But many many people are not able to purchase a home anymore. Home ownership is getting more difficult, but a mortgage is usually far less than rent. Home prices will only go up, and more corporations are buying them up.

Just know you’re not alone ❤ please never base your worth on your given circumstances. It’s tough out here.

Please know that it's never too late for things. I'm 31 now and 10 years ago when I should have been in my final year of uni my Mum died. I ended up leaving and re-doing the year, and have spent the past decade trying to feel like an adult and always feeling behind. I still don't have a 'career' and have 0 savings and several credit cards. But I'm trying to focus on little steps I can take, one by one, to inch me closer to the life I dream of (and have dreamed of since I was a little kid living in a council estate). We can get there!! ♥

Maybe its ok to be right where you're at!

Not as bad as me, im 32 and i became very unwell with bipolar in my mid twenties and the last 7 years has just been me trying to heal from it, I have no career, and no money. I feel about 24 and I have nothing in common with the other 'perfect' and 'serious adult' 30 odd year olds on my street. x

Maturity comes with the acceptance of responsibility. You will never mature living at home with momma all your life.

you’re doing fine! material and status should never determine your worth. living with family is common in most cultures. having a family who supports you to live with is a blessing, you aren’t “less of an adult” for living with the people closest to you. you can easily still be independent in your choices and activities we all live our lives in our own timeline/pace anyway, you shouldn’t have to “prove adulting” to anyone cause the fact you’re taking care of your personal responsibilities is good. there is also no such thing as “figuring it out” because we are always learning and growing in life, it’s part of the experience of being human remember you’re not alone. the term “quarter life crisis” is just a fancy term for having an existential crisis relating to who you are as a person and the fact that you shouldn’t let society’s viewpoints shift your perspective, it’s your life you are right in that people are pressured too often to live a life they don’t want to live. no one has to reach those “milestones” cause everyone’s timeline is different i can relate lol

Wrong. Maybe get therapy and try to underestand why you think that.@@redrustyhill2

​​​​@@redrustyhill2 All they said was that they still live at home with parents. It's impossible and potentially financially unwise for many millenials and zoomers to get houses or move out on their own. Moving out on your own when you can't afford to do so is actually arguably more irresponsible. Start blaming the system and stop blaming the people affected by it. You are just very narrow minded.

@rosiv9617 they said much much more than "i am living with momma because financial reasons" your reading comprehension is very low. I am actually all for kids staying at home into their 20s saving up. I am full aware that in the past and even in some cultures today 2, 3, 4 generations live under one roof. At 27 i had served in the army, put myself through school, lived and worked in several different states and another country, bought a house, multiple cars. I left home at 18 and never looked back. I matured with acceptance of responsibility for my own life. I would never have matured living with my parents

Based Kaiba PFP, good to see some taste in this comments section.

I’m feeling that “aging slower due to autism” thing right now 😫😭 I often say, “I’m an adult but I’m certainly not a grownup”. It’s like, I’m too old to be a kid but I don’t feel like I’ve aged into adulthood yet so I don’t know where I belong or what I should do. It’s hard because neurodivergents often “age” slower so when we hit adulthood we aren’t ready, but society doesn’t slow down and wait for us. We must move forward but we’re dragging our “girlish-ness” with us.

Thank you so much for taking the time to hear out others' perspectives as someone who is later on in your life journey. Not many people in your demographic have the same understanding, and I hope I can one day be as open minded as you are when considering what younger generations are dealing with. You're an inspiration ❤

@@superparamagnetism I agree that woman is not, inherently, a sexual word. However, it has been used with those connotations throughout my life. I was told growing older would come with wants/needs/desires - I came out as ace when I was 10 and that caused my family to panic and push sexual ideas onto me as a must. It would be nice not to have that association, but I do. It is not an intellectual decision to reject "woman", it is an emotional one. No amount of clever thinking will fix that, and it's not my priority in therapy. "Woman" is only neutral until it's seasoned by society, and it is no longer to my taste. I laughingly use "lady" if I must be an adult. If I must playact a role, it shall be one that pleases me.

​@marcia7622 except, "woman" is not a neutral descriptor (just like most things aren't). Woman, just like Lindsey herself said in the video, implies maturity. That includes sexual maturity, maybe not mental but physical and saying that seeing the descriptor "woman" as opposed to girl as inherently sexual being a personal thing, I think, Ignores many factors and pressures put on women, as well as language used around the topic. For example a boy becomes a "Man" when he reaches certain milestones and often being psychological and life related as opposed to physical. When a boy is seen as a man he is usually given more responsibility for his newly earned title. while a girl, is often seen biologically as a woman before she feels like one. And with that perception of ones womanhood comes a lot of attention of sexual nature, often unwanted. But it is only one example of the things I mentioned earlier.

​@@superparamagnetismokay but so, that's literally what the video you're commenting under is for. What I described was one example, it's more complicated than simply misogyny (not to imply that itself is simple), and for different people it will be a different set of reasons not to use that term but I think we're on the same page there. I replied to your first comment only to correct that "woman" is not a neutral term and explain why, from here on I don't think we're in disagreement, have a good day :)

This kind of reminds me of how some trans women were fine with being boys, since it is less strict and less dysphoria inducing than growing to be men. The same thing for trans men who as girls were allowed certain tomboy traits, that would not be allowed to them as women. I think that those terms socially do feel more restrictive than girl/boy. Could also be part of why femboys, eboys, softboys are a thing but not femmen for example.

I am nearly 40 and I still don't feel like a "woman." I agree with every word you've said. ❤

I'm in a really similar position but due to having an abusive family I live alone. But I feel stuck as an endless teenager watching my peers out match me

there is, being an adult while disabled is still adulthood, you're being an adult cos u are biologically, being behind isn't immature, relying of family isn't immature, i wish u and ur bf the best

This was my takeaway from this video from the other side. I've had women I've dated or been friends with talk about adulting, and I never understood it. I'm not sure when I became a man, but I did at some point. I sometimes struggle with boyish things, but they never make me question if I am a man. Since masculinity and adulthood are social constructs, if I do it, it definitionally is something a man does. The only times I can think of when people use "boy" for men are contexts with a pretty sexist connotation, that I don't want to be associated with. Like "old boy's club" or "boy's night". I can certainly see how someone would take that as condescending instead of empathetic. Especially given that an important (and toxic) part of growing up for some men is deliberately denying empathy from others, and refusing to show weakness.

That’s weird that he would call it condescending when he’s the one who brought it up by talking about all the ‘adulting’ things he had to do… I think “guy” is more common than “boy”, as an unmarked term for the gender, but for me if I use “guys” instead of “boys” it’s mostly because it’s easier to say. Boy is a weird bouncy sproingy awkward word! But I do still say boy sometimes because it fits with girl and is technically more neutral than guy.

@@avematthew that's really interesting. I've also found that men do resist having empathy quite often .....we don't half have some strange things to deal with in our society 😬

I think it's just kind of narcissistic and myopic. Literally everyone struggles with not knowing what they are doing or how to make it. That's life. You just force yourself through it. Suffer. Learn and try your best. There's no light switch that happens where things change. At some point, you have to take up the reins of your own life and accept you have complete control and responsibility for it. Do I feel "like an adult"? I don't have any conception of that means as a category. It's not useful or interesting. I'm just me. Get busy with life. I don't understand the millennial woman obsession with labeling themselves and social media trends, marketing and consumer culture. It's very bizarre to me. Everyone is suffering. We're chained to the world and we've all got to pull. You have to learn everything. Every skill, every process, whatever. It's always been that way. It's very stressful and difficult. I don't know what else to say. By what other process do you expect to be able to learn new skills and ways of living other than... going through the uncertainty and stress of navigating a novel scenario? That's literally just life. It's not unique, special, it's not "adulting". It comes off more as an excuse to not try. really don't get it.

As a guy I sort of relate to his reaction. When I moved into my first apartment, my cousin - a young woman around my age - came to visit. I set some water to boil for tea. We sat for maybe 20 minutes and talked and it never occurred to me that the water wasn't boiling. When it did, I went to investigate what was going on. I hadn't realized that I'd needed to set the oven to the highest heat setting to get the water to boil on this stovetop (unlike my old one). When she realized I was having trouble figuring out how to boil water, she laughed in my face. It seemed intended to be in good humour, but honestly I felt a little infantilized. She's the only person I recall ever using the word 'adulting.' Perhaps some of the women who understandably feel insecure about 'adulting' perpetuate and extend the problem by applying that judgement to others. The term 'manchild' comes to mind.

A lot of it is caused by parents not letting children play out by themselves in groups. That period is very important for children to role-play different fantasies and set their identity. Because parents keep their kids inside these days, they go through the identity forming process during adolescence instead.

That's terrifying. For a few reasons. But I don't blame u yet

Reliving your childhood or your teenagerhood as an adult is wonderful!

It’s funny you’ve articulated this because although I am femme nonbinary (specifically demigirl) I was wondering if I should use a term like demiwoman, demifemme, or demifemale to be taken more seriously. Like, why doesn’t girl bother me the way it probably should as a “proper” feminist? And I was like girls deserve to be taken seriously too so🤷‍♀️

YES. Girl feels way more safe and gender neutral to me than woman. If some one referred to me (I’m enby) with a group of my friends as girls or girlies I wouldn’t be upset. If they called up ladies or women I would feel uncomfortable.

I've always felt like "woman" was a dirty word (specifically when referring to me). I've only started getting annoyed by "girls" because it's when an older male relative groups me in with female relatives (including his wife) as if to separate us from males because of bodies we can't control (and also as if they don't remember I came out as trans). Don't alienate me or put me in a box.

I think we all feel like that for the rest of our lives, it’s just no one told us we wing it for life! 😅

Only 5 years older here, that feeling definitely doesn’t go away anytime soon lol. You’re doing fine :)

"Happiness" in those terms though seems to be defined as "what I want to do in this moment". But there is a long-term "happiness" that will not necessarily come if we just mess around all the time and don't think about the future and be serious and honest about where we are, where we're headed, and if we like the way that looks. "Embracing one's inner girl" will not produce long-term happiness. In fact, it is more likely just a way to mask one's UNhappiness with their lives. It will leave one alone, without a family, without property, without savings. We do need to grow up and learn to set aside short term happiness for the sake of our futures sometimes (or often).

oke but you don't even know me, why do you make assumptions about my life that's weird @@vlo4829

plus a lot of people online don't know the difference between "woman" and "women"

Yes this! Girl is shorter and easier on the tongue. So is guy and boy and man. Lady also works but woman just sounds clunky to me

agree. its one syllable so it sticks more if ur trying to start a trend or create a brand. i think some people just put too much weight on their personal definition of a word that should mean one thing and one thing only.

@@NoiseDayI keep hearing people pronounce the singular ‘woman’ the same as the plural and it’s driving me mad. At first i thought I was mishearing them but they’re definitely doing it and it really gets my goat for some reason.

if 30 year old men were calling themselves “boys” they’d be laughed at

@@Emily-xr6ny Frat boy immaturity isn't something one grows out of

Mine is watercolor usually folk/kitchsy style recently i picked up on hoola hoo again because my daughter wanted to learn how. ❤

I'm almost 35 and I still haven't embraced 'woman'. Mainly for your last point about it sounding weird coming out of my mouth. The only time I've ever used it is to be ironic or back when I'd have screaming matches with my dad (luckily haven't seen him in years since going no contact). I don't know if I'll ever use it in an earnest way. Maybe if I had ever cared to date or get married and gone a more traditional route, it would have been easier to embrace.

Ive felt like a woman since my early 20sm but then again I lived on my own in my own apartment starting at 16. I went to school but paid my own bills. My parents financially supported me of course, but I had to do all adult stuff on my own from that point on and it was fine. I had taught myself how to make great meals and what not. Yeah I did the occasional "girl dinners" but those were just lazy meals. I could afford and make good meals no problem. For me being a woman just meant being grown up, being indendent and figuring shit out on my own. I dont have a house, a husband or kids, and I dont want those things either. Still feel very much that im a woman. The only issue I take with the whole girl thing, is that it comes across as infantalising and like were stupid. im more than capable og making chef level food. I can make really advanced food and I like advanced things. simple and basic things are for me boring. Like even when I make ramen, a so called girl dinner, I have to make it more interesting because otherwisely its just bland and boring and I know how to improve it even if that requires more work and more steps.

I turned 22 in May. Our brains won't be developed until 25-26, and the world has been changing so much, and we've been through a lot. It's very hard to feel like an adult because of that.

Fr same

I'm 27 and still feel this way. It's so hard. Solidarity.

I feel close to the way you do. I'm 21, about to start my last year of undergrad, and married. My husband is a little older, so he already has a good job, and even though we're currently living with my father in law, we're looking to buy a house soon. And I still don't feel like an adult. I'm not sure if I'll ever feel like a proper adult at this rate.

Women are girls, girls are not yet women. Square rectangle logic.

Anybody over 30 grew up with "woman" meaning an older gen Xer or a literal Boomer. Millennials have as much in common with those people as with space aliens. Pop culture didn't do anything but reflect that.

Well said! I think I had it all together in my late 20s and early 30s, had a full time permanent job, had mortgage on one salary (with two tenants in my house), paid my bills, then I lost my job just before I got married at 34, and have been fortunate enough to have not worked full time since (I'm 48 now, husband and I share a full time position doing maintenance for the). I still wonder what I'm gonna be when I grow up, but until then at least I'm not working myself to death like my dad did (cardiac event at 52). My boss at my old job told me he didn't know how to motivate me, and I didn't have the heart to tell him once I'd figured it out myself: time off. Let me have a life outside work. I have that now with my job. I hate that so many people have no identiy outside of work or end up working three jobs to pay the bills, everything's such a giant mess for so many people....

Not true at all

i agree with that notion /thumbsup but, lately, i figured: maybe it's not "society" but overwhelmingly often our parents (within our social circles) that do that - they are the ones who nag about shit that nobody else actually cares about. i think most of them are nice people that tried their best, but sometimes it really shows how resentful they are and it feels like they wish that resentfulness on everybody else, too ^^"

Right? ME ME ME ME ME!!!

The irony of this for me is that I spent my childhood as a "mindless, joyless machine", and I must say that it is as overrated as you expect it to be. This is why I embrace "adulting" as essentially doing whatever I want instead of conforming to a set of rules and expectations that doesn't benefit me.

“Society has refused to treat them as adults” Yes indeed. I joined the Army straight out of high school and was deployed half the time I was in. Got married and had two kids between the ages of 26-30. Then divorced and started working on rebuilding my independence/ personal goals. This entire time at least up until about 37ish I was constantly undermined and scoffed at for even wanting to be taken seriously. Now that I’m 41 and have given up on that because I see it for the joke it is I’m told that I need to “grow up” and that I should be ashamed. The minute you don’t care anymore people demand that you do. It’s really blowing my mind that so many people from the younger generation are openly and desperately seeking validation from others, not because they’re wrong to want it but because it’s a lost cause to even hope that these people who they’re seeking it from have any validation worth having to give to anyone. Hence the reason so many adults my age and older can’t understand the difference between self respect and “pride” in the negative boastful sense of the term.

I am in the same boat, and feel like sometimes I am teetering on a cliff and got a bit lucky as a 97' baby, because my sister is 2 years younger and has been hit a lot harder by these very issues coupled with a lot of trauma and by how COVID interrupted her development and access to opportunities.