Feminism Destroys Christian Marriage (Mike Pantile) 

When I got married 31 years ago the priest told us that there are 3 in our marriage. God, My husband and then me

As a conservative Presbyterian, I see exactly the same issue in our church. My wife of 46 years has just divorced me and used the incursion of radical feminism into our supposedly Biblical local (and national) church to affirm her decision. Thank you for quoting Voddie Baucam, one of the few in conservative Protestantism that are speaking the truth openly on such matters.

Great Chesterton quote paraphrased: “It [feminism] is mixed up with a muddled idea that women are free when they serve their employers but slaves when they help their husbands.” Chesterton

As a woman who's seen some really crappy stuff go down but still wants to be a faithful Catholic... This is a really difficult conversation to hear. I'm fortunate to be married to a husband I love and respect, and who leads our family. But i also know at least two Catholic women, women who were raised in good homes, even homeschooled by conservative Catholic parents (the type who read a lot of Michael D O'Brian) and who were doing everything "right" while looking for a husband, whose husbands cheated on or straight up abandoned them and their children. And I've survived s*xual assault by the priest I thought of as my spiritual director, and navigating the fallout of that was VERY eye opening as to what it's like to be a woman in the Church who's been wronged...there ain't a lot of justice for it this side of Heaven. (As far as the assault-- I was a college student, he was in his 50s and working as the campus chaplain, it was in the confessional, so in a place where one would EXPECT to be alone with a priest behind a closed door, and I basically wore the baggiest clothes possible and had a walloping case of scruples centering around sexual sin at the time, so NO, I wasn't leading anyone on. I'm used to people making certain assumptions). All that to say...I have a hard time with automatic submission to anyone other than Christ at this point. And even that has been very difficult in the aftermath of what I've experienced-- betrayal by one of Christ's priests can feel like a betrayal from him. It's taken a lot of healing to get to where I am now. I love my husband and respect him, I'm a stay at home mother, so much of my work centers around his needs and the kids', but I feel like decsions that affect our family we make TOGETHER. Yes, I serve his needs and our family's directly with my work, but i don't feel like our relationship is what's being described here. Does that make me a "feminist"? In a Church full of women with hard stories, this wifely submission thing is going to be a hard, HARD sell. There's a lot of goodwill that's been lost.

It would be important, Matt Fradd, for you to read Mulieris Dignitatem by Pope St. John Paul, before continuing to discuss the question of feminism.

Id appreciate you touching more on what this looks like within marriages when men start living in ways they are disordered and unhealthy for the family

And if you really want to get your mind blown? Ask any woman how old they were the very first time they felt objectified / sexualized by a man or had something inappropriate said to them, or had something not quite right happen. MOST OF US WERE CHILDREN

If abortion is illegal then a man leaving a woman Who is pregnant should be illegal too, if a woman can’t back out of a pregnancy neither should the man

Learning submission and headship saved my marriage. My husband used to be very immature and emotionally abusive, and I was reactively controlling and codependent. When we came to the church and started genuinely learning how to respectively submit and lead, it literally solved all our relationship problems. I no longer over function and he no longer sits in passive avoidance and eventually blowing up. We learned how to communicate and build trust. Submission and headship are like learning how to dance together well. It helps you both grow up and contribute fully to the relationship. Granted, I want to be clear that my husband WANTED to change, and his abusive behavior was a result of some serious wounds that he wanted to see healed. He wasn’t a sociopathic type. Not every abusive person is interested in looking at themselves and wanting to be better. And I’m not suggesting that women can make an abuser change. But we CAN change ourselves and stop over functioning, which is what feminism has caused. Unbalanced relationships look like a woman “leading,” aka going without a responsible partner who loves her and is willing to step up and fully invest in the relationship. Most men know that being the head of the home means taking responsibility for it, which is entirely about putting yourself aside and doing what’s best for your family. Not about demanding your way and being selfish and exploitive. I really do think most men understand that leadership is about hard work and sacrifice and responsibility. It’s not a cakewalk or a free for all to do what you want. If you want to have a business or a military endeavor be successful, then leadership is going to be about selfless hard work. That’s the same thing for a marriage and family. I don’t think we give enough men credit for the fact that they know this-some of them just need to be confronted with the reality of needing to grow up. And that should be balanced with lots of loving encouragement that the world does indeed need them, and that their masculine gifts are good and necessary, and there are women out there who will appreciate it. And even if they find themselves in a situation where it isn’t appreciated, there is still a profound intrinsic value in developing yourself into the kind of man that people can count on, especially a wife and children. That is what builds societies-good men who love their families. Anyway, a combination of firm boundaries, frank and clear discussion, loads of affectionate encouragement, and good pastoral guidance, helped my husband see how much I believe in him and also hold him to high standards, and that I wanted him to do the same for me. And we got over a LOT of rough things to get to where we are today as proud parents of four beautiful kids. And if it weren’t for the church’s teachings on headship and submission, we never could have done this. I look at my husband with so much pride and I know how hard he fought for me. For us. I love submitting to him and lifting him up. Praise God for Ephesians 5 and how it taught us to love each other.

I am not a fan of voting at all. However a family vote would certainly be much better compared to what we have now. It would mean the people electing representatives would have longer time preferences, be more conservative, and emphasizes voting to protect our future. All of these being an effect of most of them wanting a better life for their kids.

Women need to do what God gave them to do. And he gave them a lot. And men consulting their wives too much can lead to stressing their wives out because he's not leading enough. Women get stressed easily, worry easily, obsess about stuff. Just make the decisions guys. You do not need to include her in everything you do or decide. Fix the car, the house, win the bread, do your job.

If all feminism is bad, should women not be allowed to vote, own property, have their own private bank accounts etc? And what of those who are unmarried?

I am submissive to my husband and he respects my opinion. If we disagree, he decides. He is right most times. I would be wrong sometimes,too. We can live with his decisions. It works!

I grew up being filled with feminist ideology which didn't match with my experience but must be true if they taught it in college....one failed nonsacramental marriage later and I discover Catholicism and submission. 14 years into a sacramental holy marriage and I can say that submission to my husband , a good and loving provider, has been the hardest but first step on my pilgrimage to Heaven. I am a different, better woman because of it

You talk about misandry and how “ new wave” feminism is all about hating men. Misogyny has seen women rape, murdered, hindered abused, sexualized, enslaved, objectified and denigrated. This misandry you speak of, apart from hurting fragile egos, what else has it done to you.

There is no need for...domination, self-negation, complaint, negativity; it is all just ego, as opposed to: serving God. Serving God is liberation, petty complaints are self-imprisonment.

Matt knows I love him as a friend, but boy is his take on women off. In Mullieris Dignitatem, JPII said, "But the challenge presented by the "ethos" of the Redemption is clear and definitive. All the reasons in favour of the "subjection" of woman to man in marriage must be understood in the sense of a "mutual subjection" of both "out of reverence for Christ". The measure of true spousal love finds its deepest source in Christ, who is the Bridegroom of the Church, his Bride." I'd rather trust his interpretation of Ephesians 5 than any of these commentators'. Matt holds a responsibility to get this right because he has a wide audience and therefore should proclaim how the Church sees the role of women rather than his own strange, frankly American right-wing fundamentalist, views. St Gianna Molla, pray for us!

I just recently converted to Catholicism because of podcast like this and Trent’s. However, the stuff they post about feminism has been the only thing holding me back. However, the message in this podcast was excellent. I’m a “red-pilled” husband. I am a fallen sinner in many ways but I don’t want to cheat on my wife, nor do I wish to rule her. But feminism makes it very very tricky to “lead properly”. This clip was awesome

Sure maybe the man is the head of the family - whatever that means, because “having the final say” sounds like unbelievable bs - but the woman is the neck. So just serve each other and love God, and don’t overthink it.

Most men these days reject the idea of being a protecter and provider.

Sincere question: if a proper reading of Ephesians 5 gives a husband “the final say” and the authority to “drop the hammer” (Mike’s words) and defines a wife’s duty as one of obedience and submission, then why doesn’t the Church provide for women to make a vow of obedience on the wedding day? Mike seems to be describing a master-slave relationship. This doesn’t pass the vibe check.

Maybe we're just not wealthy enough to have options, but I dont even know what decisions there are to be made to give me something to be submissive about. We live in the house we were able to afford. We have kids as God gives them. If my husband requests something different for dinner I'll make it, but he seems happy with what I put together. It's not like we're nomadic, and he's telling me to leave my family for the promised land or something.

My mom was a stay at home mom until my dad got sick. She had quit her job 9 years earlier. This was back in 1978. My thing with women working has been rooted in the worst case scenario. My mom became a widow at 45. She was 28 when she had to go back to work full time. I had a stay at home dad because he couldn’t work.

People in the comments blindly saying things like “men need to focus on being self sacrificing”. Which is true but clearly ignores the points being made. Most women are poisoned by feminism. They worship their own “freedom” despite the fact that rejecting the systems that God created can only lead to slavery. Mike is correct in pointing out that the church operates on patriarchy as does the home. It would not be proper to reject the authority of the church nor is it proper for women to reject the authority of their husbands. Tim Gordon brings a great light onto this subject and I believe Matt tends to agree with him thought he chooses to be reserved in how he states in on the podcasts. Great discussion from these guys.

Where can a man go to find a woman that really believes in the authority of the husband? A woman that really believes in the God-given hierarchical structure of the family? How many Catholic women out there actually believe they should submit to their husbands? I don't want to discourage any men out there from discerning a call to the married life. I just wanted to point out that I'm skeptical as to how many Catholic women support the patriarchy.

They really need to define feminism because it's such an amorphous word. It can mean anything from giving women basic human rights like walking in public and not getting gang raped to really anti-Catholic things like late-term abortion on demand. I would also be interested in seeing what the day-to-day operations are like in these "patriarchal" marriages vs "feminist" marriages. A good leader does what needs to be done for everyone involved and a good marriage does what needs to be done for everyone involved, so what is the difference in actual practice? They said not to be tyrannical and controlling - ok well what decisions count as NOT tyrannical? What decisions is a man supposed to be making? People (hopefully) dont disagree because its fun, they disagree because something is not working for them. So the idea that man always wins in a disagreement just sounds like he's pushing some things that dont work for his wife.

Only God requires absolute obedience! Anybody else ,it all depends.

Can't say I agree with the whole submit and shut up stance, if you mutually respect your partner in a marriage you won't have to do this because decisions will be easier naturally

It seems like Matt's opinions on this have evolved. I'd be interested in seeing another Timothy Gordon/Matt Fradd convo and see how theyve both shaped their opinions since their original chat.

Husbands love your wives as Christ loves the church. Wives submit to your husband. Voila 99percent of marriages fixed.

"There's a place for heavy-handed correction." What did he mean by that? There's something about this guy that just doesn't sit right with me.

I recommend reading St. John Paul's MULIERIS DIGNITATEM and Letter to Women, as well as Theology of the Body. Catholic submission and secular submission are not the same. Catholic feminism and secular feminism are also not the same.

In Afghanistan, women are barred from pursuing university education and banned from certain public spaces, such as parks. If you oppose these restrictions placed on women by the Taliban, does that make you a feminist and supporter of the women's liberation movement? If you opposed Saudi Arabia's (former) prohibition on women driving, does that mean you are a feminist? Matt, if you think feminism is "wicked root and branch", then you either: 1) Don't believe women have ever been unjustly discriminated against, or 2) you're just going to swap the word "feminism" for a word that you like to describe any instances of women's rights that you support.

I agree with this. I've been blessed with such a loving and intelligent husband 🙏🏼

Women and children are physically weaker. That's the reason we have been dominated, beaten, and driven crazy by abusive men, fathers, husbands, brothers. Fathers, husbands, and brothers should protect women and children. If protection was in place, it would be a lot easier to listen to and be nice to men. It appears that tradition has died out. But not vote? pshht. Single women need to be able to work regular jobs, unless you plan they should just prostitute themselves. My husband passed away. What am I supposed to do? We do hear your words as tyrannical in intent. because so many men ARE tyrants to us. I was married to a narcissist. What a nightmare. I stayed married to him for 17 long years, until he finally decided to move out. I'm a good cook, kept the house clean, welcomed his friends, but was helpless against his cruelty. I cried a lot of tears, I hid in the bushes to avoid getting smacked around because his egg was overcooked. He broke my glasses hitting me in the face on the regular. I became ill, with abdominal pain to where I could not stand up. He once tried to poison me. I ended up in the hospital. He did not come when I called him and said I was having a miscarriage and was not supposed to drive. I waited and waited and finally drove myself. He was only a mile away. This is not a man deserving of the the kind of relationship you have in mind.

Didn't Tim Gordon basically say the same thing on Matt's show like way back in 2018? lol

I'm one of Mike's coaching clients, he is a solid dude. We need men to be inspiring in order for us to see them as inspirations. Not as the world or as women would define, but as God would

Wow … I’m blown away by this and not in a good way. I would recommend people listen to St. JPII before listening to this. Love excludes every kind of submission by which the wife would become a servant or slave of the husband, an object of one-sided submission. Love makes the husband simultaneously subject to the wife, and subject in this to the Lord himself, as the wife is to the husband. The community or unity that they should constitute because of marriage is realized through a reciprocal gift, which is also a mutual submission. (Man and Woman He Created Them: A Theology of the Body, 89:4)

If the man is to be the leader, […] the head of the entire family--in the sense Christ is the head of the Church, so is it the duty of the man to conduct this microcosm of the great Mystical Body in such a way that each of its members may be able to develop his gifts perfectly and contribute to the salvation of the entire body. [He has] the power to bring talents which are existent to development (or to suppress them), as a person most certainly can be helpful in developing the gifts of another. And it is wisdom on his part not to allow these gifts to atrophy but to permit them to be developed for the welfare of all. And since he himself is not perfect like Christ, but rather a creature with many gifts and many defects, his highest wisdom may be to permit the gifts of the other members to compensate for his defects, just as it could be the highest political wisdom of the sovereign to allow a judicious minister to rule. St. Edith Stein

Your views on marriage is so weird, a healthy marriage should be a team where you discuss and make decisions together as equals. Sure they can have different roles but the idea that women HAVE to be submissive to their husbands as if they are children is so weird. Also this "men are stronger" shit is so cringe, it's the 21st century dawg, physical strength isn't really something we rely on in our day do day lives anymore.

"Sometimes I consult my wife on serious decisions" Wow.

I appreciate how you're addressing the conflict between modern feminism and the biblical understanding of gender roles. But I think it's important to emphasize the idea of servant leadership when discussing the husband’s role in the family. True Christian leadership is about self-sacrifice, much like how Christ led with humility and love. This is a message that often gets lost in conversations around patriarchy-it’s not about control or domination, but about serving and nurturing the family in a way that promotes the flourishing of everyone involved. The critique of universal voting rights, suggesting that only families-represented by the male head-should vote, reflects this misconception of servant leadership, as it prioritizes authority and representation over the collaborative and sacrificial nature of true leadership, which values the voices and dignity of all individuals, including women. Another relevant point is the need to focus on freedom and dignity when talking about traditional roles. Submission in the Christian sense is not about oppression, but about freely choosing to trust and collaborate with one's partner. There’s beauty in recognizing that men and women, though different, have complementary strengths that work together for the good of the family. It’s not about limiting a woman’s autonomy but about valuing her unique contributions and offering her the space to flourish in her role. Lastly, we need to respect individual consciences and choices when discussing these issues. Many women today have grown up with feminist values, and rather than condemning their choices, it’s important to offer traditional roles as a beautiful alternative while respecting the paths they’ve taken. We should present these teachings as one option among many, without dismissing the legitimacy of other life choices, particularly when made for virtuous reasons (such as providing for a family, using talents for the common good, etc.). Engaging in open, respectful dialogue can help bridge the gap between tradition and modern values, and ultimately invite more people to explore the richness of the Christian vision for family life. Thanks again for the insightful discussion-it’s a much-needed conversation!

Praise God. Amen!! It is soooo refreshing to hear this truth be understood on “mainstream” Catholic media. This topic IS the deepest source of societal ills-outside of rebellion to God obviously. Husbands and priest need to be putting women back in their places. And Godly women-like Lori Alexander from the Transformed Wife RU-vid channel-need to be teaching younger women as scripture says. We need everyone to turn this disaster around to the glory of God and for the good of mankind.

I think the relative weakness of women to men has to be understood the way it is part of Christ's whole mission. A digression. Many years ago my youngest son went with my husband to a Co op to get smthg -- can't remember what -- son wanders off and find a crate full of baby chicks. Really cute, fluffy, yellow, chirping baby chicks. He watches. Then notices that the bigger little chicks, the stronger, little chicks trample and peck to death a tiny runt chick. He was destroyed by it. That night we had to draw a picture of the dead chick and light a candle to it. We talked and talked. He understood in a way a lot of preaching can't make it clear, Christ revolutionized how we are meant to think. To see. in this world, as in antiquity, "the strong do what they will and the weak suffer what they must". That's Darwin, right? In Christ's kingdom the weak, the runt, the littlest one, comes first. He was more-or-less explicit about that. In this world, strength is a virtue. In his world, so is weakness. It's hard to see just how much of a different spin that puts on seeing everything and the disciples had a hard time understanding the beatitudes. But when God came, he was weak, hunted by 'big chicks', so ordinary he couldn't be found. When he left, he was weak, hunted, pecked to death. Those were arguably two of the most important point of his life, his entry and exit of the world. Until we truly understand weakness -- God's prefered disguise - we don't get the difference between the genders properly. Humans are the weakest species on earth in many ways. They are born utterly handicapped and for like years, even decades. That is their 'glory'. Discussion of 'submission' etc. must be oriented to how God sees weakness. Without it, there's no life, as Adam knew when he named Eve.

if you want to have a liberal feminist marriage ,why even be Catholic if you reject parts of the Bible and Catholic teaching (even if they are less enforced and talked about) men have every reason to have pause and i think many should consider religious vocations if they believe they can 50% of total marriages result in divorce and women divorce you 80ish% of the time i usually tell people Catholic divorce rate is much lower. if you're married, practicing Catholics, who married in Church it is much lower but even among Catholics feminist ideas go unnoticed and undenounced even laughing at some patriarchal ideas absolutely vital for the Church and family the world needs plenty of Priests and Monks. sometimes it's better to offer and alternative than try to convince people into a situation you know is risky

Husband and wife are a team! You seem to infantilize woman!

sorry, dude's vibe just doesn't work for me. I don't know if that says something about me but whatever it is what it is. Love your partner with a fury that empowers her to do amazing things and she will return that light ten fold. Tell her when she is being emotional and not rational and she will tell you when you are being pig headed and prideful. When two fleshes become one you don't need to make it this hard, honesty and love iron out all the kinks.

A woman should submit to a man of God, not to any boy who thinks women should just submit to him. The man must submit to God, give his life away to God, live for God, and then the woman will basically follow God through him. But the man will also submit to his wife when he gets off the path a bit, and she, as a true godly woman, will recognise that and "pull him back". And this can happen pretty frequently, depending on each person and their weaknesses. Everything else I call bs.. And the devil will infiltrate in their marriage. The host of the show has some issues.. His guest is speaking really well and giving great advice for men and women. 👌 I don't understand the tattoos tho...

A lot of great points. I think this is where someone like Jordan Peterson has good advice, because he says to young men, "turn yourself into a monster and then learn how to control that" because if you go into a relationship as a weak man, that's obviously no good, and if you try to over correct and be strong, but you don't know how to wield that strength, that's also bad. That's why you need to clean your room boys.

I also personally think it’s also because very few Christian’s speak about it period, Protestant or Catholic. I know some do, but even those that do most don’t bring it up often like red pill men and for a while I learned much from them because I didn’t see any godly manly good sources that spoke much on this even tho as Mike in my opinion rightfully admits most marriages in the church are prolly feminist

From what I can look into the verse that is quoted in the video Sirach 25:30 exists in the Dewey Rheims version only. I cannot find it in another translation.. I will admit that I dont have the original Hebrew nor could read it at this time if I did. Just an FYI for those looking for it.

Above all these men who decry feminism, is Jesus. Did Jesus ever say anything about women shouldn’t listen to their husbands, or be obedient to their husbands ? Did Jesus say that women are “equal” to men, and therefore marriage is unnecessary? Did Jesus say anything about the family being a waste of time, or insignificant in God’s eyes? I think not. I do see that there are women who claim to be Christian or Catholic, yet say that the “patriarchy”, and/or marriage, is evil or is equal to slavery or indentured servitude.

LOVE this. ❤❤

So my comment that I spent time and crafting in defense of my dear deceased and strong widowed mother has been deleted somehow. Wow. I said nothing offensive.

I wish my husband could vote for us!!!

Women can be as strong as men at times or maybe even stronger (depending on the man) not physically but generally. Evidence of this are widows with kids who dont get remarried. This is not the norm but Ive seen firsthand how strong a widowed mother of 3 small children can be. After dad died, my mother was cut off by my dads family (due to family dynamics) and her parents were very poor and had 10 kids (catholic) so not a lot of help there. She put herself through nightschool, got work, and we never grew up in need. Its not the ideal, Id rather have had my dad. But she did it all on her own. And I greatly admired her strength, intelligence, and heart. Though she could be very strict and displinarian, we knew she loved us and would do anything for us (my siblings and I). It's not that women should be try to be stronger than men but to deny that they can be, if needed, is off base and does such a great disservice to these human beings. If married, I would gladly submit, but I would also not want to be completely silenced as if I had nothing to contribute.

I am sorry, but you are contradicting the theology of the body of Pope St. John Paul.

Thank you someone finally speaks about how women have been controlling the church while men are scared to stand up for gods order.

I like the way Christopher West explained this in his Theology Of The Body podcast. He said women should submit to the mission of their husbands and that the mission of their husband is to lay down his life before he would ever offend the dignity of his wife. Thank God for the enlightenment our age will bring to this. In most parts of the world, women are not ruled by men anymore , who have horribly mistreated them throughout history. This will force men to either become effeminate, brutish, or to become authentic men as God wants them to be. Submission is a choice, as it should be. Men need to focus more on understanding their own mission instead of how they can wield power over their wives. If men had been about this from the beginning, women would not have had a liberation revolution.

I honestly see no benefit to women voting, I don't understand the commotion around it 🤔

What drives someone to get a tattoo on their neck? Ot tattoos at all. Most of the time you can’t see them and some people have so many you can’t tell what they are. It ends up looking like you’ve been working on your car all day and haven’t washed up yet

There still should be a certain comradery between husband and wife. She is not one of his children after all. Also, porn has disfigured masculinity in marriages where women are compelled to do the duties of the father. Am I wrong?

I am a woman, I had four children; I am entirely powerful - why would I want to change this? It is pathetic, the way women moan; I would say: get a life, celebrate who you are, celebrate who men are. We are as God made us, it is astounding.

In the past Women were horribly abused with this thinking. Woman were deprived of education ,financial opportunities, beaten ,and used. This thinking in patriarchy needs nuances.

The voting is bad too.

Where's Mother Natalia this week? She's why I'm here

What if we actually read the bible correctly and noticed that in the first Genesis account, man and woman were created equally in Gods image? In the second, a careful reading actually shows Eve as the leader! Agrippa was astute when he noted that Eve was technically never explicitly forbidden from eating the fruit. Her sin was giving it to Adam, who was, without conferring with God first. The resulting male domination is therefore clearly framed as a result of the fall.

Probably needed the last part starting at 9min to be the first part because yall had me as misogynist at first lol

Yeah even as a catholic this is repulsive. I don't need my husband to vote for me. I also don't express my obediance to God through my husband. Nope nope

All these women in the comments justifying a denunciation of the message just shows how far women have fallen. Especially when you consider they were already in the sphere of influence that drew them to the channel in the first place, and yet can’t entertain the notion that submission to your husband is in service to god.

☕️