Edit Log: Something I forgot to mention about White Mage too is that it's cast times on certain heals are also longer than Astrologian. Medica 1 and Medica 2 are .5s slower than Helios and Aspected Helios for whatever reason. This makes Astro's heals easier to use for slidecasting movement mechanics or just getting them off faster.
I feel like I shouldn't be posting suggestions as I only just now got to level 70 and have no really experience of endgame content, but what you said was something I noticed before Endwalker came out when I was leveling up Astrologian throughout the Heavensward storyline. I guess In terms of suggestions and to keep White Mage a bit unique as a job, maybe keep the mana costs/cast times of the GCD heals but increase the range/radius and heal potency of said abilities to compensate? Another would simply just normalize the abilities and make them the same as Astrologian, but I feel it might be more interesting to give White Mage a more unique strength in raw healing power from the first suggestion while Astrologian has the benefit of being faster. In the end, I'm just throwing out ideas. Sorry if I said didn't make sense, I'll try to clarify if I need too.
@S0ulFinder That's the one thing I feel like I can never complain about. It's a free invuln for every tank, every single dungeon pull, so I'm fine putting up with the cast time in exchange. I do wish we had *just one* more thing to use in AoE though, maybe a Dia II similar to Thunder II?
@@yeoldpubman it is true that it is a mitigation tool, but what I was complaining about was the feeling of Holy3. Sometimes you are spamming 1.5s gcd but suddenly you are sent back to 2.5s and it feels so slow. Is it the end of the world? Nah, but having it also be in line with the other spells would be nice
The best thing about Assize: it does basically everything you could want at once. The worst thing about Assize: it does basically everything you could want at once.
I just wish they would make Lily Heals into something you always want to use. If they are afraid of Afflatus Misery being too much burst by making it 3x Glare, they should instead have it provide a damage buff after you use it.
Misery had the same potency as 3x Glare in ShB and even then lilies were rarely used outside of movement or heavy damage windows because they were still a dps loss. The potency difference in EW exacerbates the problem but the problem itself is nothing new. Cooldowns or not, the fact that Sage addersgall abilities are oGCDs and restore MP while lilies are still GCDs and Thin Air got nerfed is kind of insulting.
@@michaelman90 Rarely used is still better than almost never used. Using lilies was sometimes optimal in ShB. So far given the content we have in Endwalker it feels like using lilies is never the right thing to do.
I like the idea behind lilybell, and I would've loved to see a totem healer in Geomancer but I'm glad we got it nevertheless. I really wanted to see WHM's own ley lines (a flower bed like what Aerith uses in FF7R) that made their casts instant, made mp recover faster and lilies charge faster but hey maybe that's our lvl100 ability xD
Maaannnn, I REALLY wish they added a Geomancer this expac. I'd reckon it'd be a high skill ceiling job as well (big reason why I like to use GNB, AST, MNK, and BLM in savage and ult raids). Maybe next expac? :D
I got a lot of the same feel from WHM I frankly hate the change to thin air. Trying to recover after dying without it is really painful. Especially if you res while lucid is on CD.
Exactly. Thin Air + Lucid Dreaming after getting rezzed was a godsend cause I'd be back to the same HP/MP I had before death. Having that gone now is painful
@@izzy1356 you know there are these things called mp potions? hq gives you 1800 mp instantly. not a full recovery I agree, but better have it and do t need it
You get thin air after res. 2 charges. But lillies only charge in combat is a dud. Sch gets aether instantly. Sge out of combat. Ast gets ogcd with no resources.
It just goes to show that simply dropping a job's cast time to 1.5 can cause a domino effect if the job wasn't originally design to have that in mind. This might sound like a hottake, but perhaps reducing potency on Glare a little bit can reduce the net dps loss from using GCD heals. I also think Lilies should restore mp when used if not made into an oGCD. And reworking Afflatus Misery to where it can be used if at least one Lily was consumed, though the potency can increase up to something like it currently is when a max of three lilies were consumed.
Reducing potency on Glare to reduce net DPS loss is like saying you'll save money by not bathing. It's technically true, but not ideal and by the Twelve does it stink. If anything keep WHM the way it is now and just buff our potencies through the roof. Make us the GNB of healers, a little less useful on progression but kings (and queens) of optimization.
"reducing potency on Glare a little bit can reduce the net dps loss"... by reducing the dps in general???? That's, not a good solution. That's equivalent to lopping a finger off because you broke it.
My first clear of zodiark had me low on mp with a dps of 2.5k thanks to raises and spot healing. God i want old thin air back, i had to stop dpsing in order to save mp
Same. Near the end, I was literally running around the arena doing nothing but trying to avoid aoes while my mp refilled. I've never had to do that on WHM before and it sucked.
@@MichaSennin yeah now that I've caught up on other healers and ran the EXs on them it's clear as day how bad mana is on whm. My first comment aged like milk lmao
Fun fact about using lilibell. If you place it right when you get hit (Like a 4th of a second window.) It will use up a charge but not do any healing. Also bringing Assize back to 10% mp would be nice, compared to SCH's 20% mp every minute from Aetherflow. I died during the first EX trial and with BIS setup (963 piety) I was never really able to fully recover for 3 minutes till I got downtime from the boss, even after using thin air on glares. So drying in like a harder savage or ultimate you can really have a bad time if you have low piety or no super ethers.
White mage feels really weird to me, I loved the cast time reduction on SCH and have been playing AST before that and been fine. White mage though just feels awkward to use. Part of it has to do with that I would queue up a lily cast after my GCD glare to move so now I'm just confused why it's not going off sometimes when I want it to and Holy keeping the same cast time. It feels so close to being good though. I kinda would prefer the old cast time with Afflatus misery being a higher potency than 3 Glares to compensate.
Yesss thisss, the new GCD is really messing me up and it forces me to look at the hotbar rather than the cast bar... to cast the same spammable attack, which is a serious design oversight if you ask me.
The fact that they changed AST's comparable mana issues in ShB gives me hope that they will adjust WHM's quick enough. As for Lily problems. I'm not so sure it'll be a quick turnaround on that
i definitely think making misery equal in potency to 3 glare IIIs is the change most needed but making thin air have a shorter cooldown would be very nice as well
Unless they make lilies oGCDs or give Misery the same potency as four glares then lilies will still feel terrible to use. Grinded the EXes on WHM and like he mentioned in the video I found myself just using Medica II whenever I needed to GCD heal. At this point lilies are basically just a movement tool. I really hope WHM sees some changes soon. As it stands Sages are superior to them in pretty much every single way other than burst healing.
@@michaelman90 why is medica 2 better to use over the lily heal in that instance? I'm not being argumentative, just curious. What makes it less of a DPS loss than the lily?
@@Osk570 Medica II is 250+750 potency, Rapture is 400 potency. It's often more dps to use Medica II for the massive heal over time rather than use more than one Rapture, especially when you know there is downtime coming up (e.g. Astral Eclipse) where you can dump your lilies for free.
Thin air is charge based. Shb thin air was 15 sec free cast every 2 minute. Most is 3 cast of long casting spell like medica or cure 3. 2 second cast with 3 sec global. Current thin air is better.
I leveled up WHM throughout Endwalker and I just really don't like it anymore, the MP thing is so annoying and quite frankly the thin air change is really stupid, I've swapped to Astro and I finally enjoy healing again. The mana is horrendous and it was just super stressful to main heal and res during these extreme trials and heavy healing fights, the class feels awful compared to any other healer.
I love all the comments condemning Thin Air’s change. I shared the same concerns on the main subreddit immediately upon this being revealed during the media tour and got downvoted and ridiculed. It’s a nerf plain and simple, as well as an unnecessary one at that.
I just wanted Holy III to grant lilies like they said it would. Having it as some sort of AOE off-rotation, but be bigger-hitting like Phlegma would have been very neat, like another Assize to weave in.
I think giving assize and tetra charges, reverting the thin air change and making misery at least DPS neutral would go a long way in making WHM better to play. Oh also lower holy cast time to 1.5
Just revert the changes to Thin Air and White Mage will be back in the same good position. Of course that's just a very minor point there's other things that it needs help with.
Old thin air is too powerful. I agree the job needs retweaking, but a do whatever you want without mp cost button is just stupidly busted and made whm way too easy with no real consequences.
@franky tanky old thin air is weak compared to Endwalker thin air. Old thin air is 15 sec of free cast every two minutes. Assuming you cast cure 2, cure 3, medica 2 or medica which all takes 2 sec to cast with 3 sec global. Most you can spam is 3 spells in 2 minutes. Current thin air IS 2 cast in ONE minute with charges renew every minute. You guys keep whining yet dont understand how thin air works.
I hope they make some tweaks as WHM got shafted heavily again for another expansion with them removing things that were good about WHM but not giving it much to balance it. I'm really not expecting it anytime soon though because they will be more interested in balancing new classes and none of them seem to give a crap about WHM most of the time. Every time it sort of lands in a good place they make a bunch of changes that take away what was good about it. Mana management and weaving lilies felt great and now neither exists and all our heals still cost a fuck ton of mana.
im expecting them to make very minor changes that still leave it in a not great place until 7.0. the only changes they could make to even it out is semi reverting thin air or increasing the MP recovered with assize greatly. you probably wont see actual gcd mp adjustments until an expac and as a whm who dealt with Stormblood whm and then the heaven that was SHB whm, i hate to see this
WHM feels fine is no one is getting vuln stacks, party members dont die, and i dont die. But as soon as one of those things happen, it feel horrible to recover. ESPECIALLY when i die.
I would love ogcd lillies and make other ways to nourish the blood lilly. Weaving ogcd lilly heals throwing out Misery dps sounds like it would be fun.
I am leveling WHM from low level and it feels so bad in comparison to AST. No oGCD heals feels so bad, and since I do not normally heal, whenever I F up targeting a GCD heal on WHM, I have to panic Swiftcast + GCD heal again instead of being able to hit something like ED on AST.
I feel like they really made a mistake when they made Thin Air a one and done. Regardless of the charges, making mana regen easy before with a Lucid Dream and Thin Air was spot on. Now it’s a bit harder and I did like it.
I thought WHM was fine, even fantastic, having cleared both EX trials on it with ease. Then I played SGE. Having your Addersgall stacks not evaporate when you die, having them recharge in combat, having the spenders be OGCD...it feels like we're missing QOL intentionally here, kind of like our DPS equivalent the BLM. Except in their case they get to do the most ranged damage in the game....so why not funnel *us* into that niche for healers?
Scholar has much to be jealous of sage over too, what with them still insisting on Aetherflow only being usable in combat. Sage's meter charges in OR out of combat. Paladin entering duties with full Oath meter is good too
I guess they don't do this because they think it would be too OP, but I've always felt they should just remove tetra and make the lilies OGCD. It seems kind of bloated to have two instant cast heals that heal for 700 potency, but the only difference is the GCD.
What really gets me is that many of the various changes to all of the jobs feel "incomplete" or "beta". Like they just said lets roll out the changes, but we don't really know for sure what to do so lets change it and then see and make adjustments. I say this mostly because many of the changes are "incomplete" and left vestigial things behind, unaltered, in the face of altering the very thing those skills were linked to. This leads to a sensation of incompleteness and a lack of understanding of how skills interrelate. Why change X and leave Y when Y relied on the now missing part of X so now you have a dangling skill that still intends to be linked with another skill that no longer functions in that way. WHM it's the higher mana cost and the lilly changes that don't flow out right. But its everywhere really. Though it does seem that PAL and WAR seem to be more or less synergistic with only a few appendix like skills hanging around waiting to get inflamed. I like nearly every change, what I don't like is that the changes appear to be made without understanding the domino effect those changes have nor how everything links together. Which is what leads me back to feeling "beta test". They didn't really know what to do and how it would work out so they just did the changes haphazardly and then figured the community feedback would give them the missing info for a later patch. That does leave the players feeling that the jobs are often somewhat awkward and clunky.
Lillies should be OGCD with 600 mp restore every cast so they can be easily woven in between GCDs. It will also (somewhat?) fix the mana issue. Rapture I think should be left as a GCD.
while it would be cool to see that improvement, it would also make them way too similar to sage/scholar with their OGCD resource heals. if lilies are changed to be OGCD then they're literally just the same as sage's addersgall gauge single target heals. I think we'd need to see some kind of amendment to how lilies are generated (maybe damage potency done = lily charge to keep in line with the flavour of 'blood for the blood lily') just to make sure that healers still maintain separate identities and not just have too similar a playstyle to everyone else's kit
Liturgy of the bell turned out to be much more useful in Endwalker than I expected, there are more than few multi-hit AOEs and it's essentially a free pass to AkhMorn style abilities. I am such a shitter at using Aquaveil, I'm just not used to having that skill yet. I would really like to see Thin Air apply to the next 2-3 spells.
I rather not say is free due to limited why to use it. The skill is basically like dark mind in DRK. It feels good if it properly work, but not in other content. There is a simple fix for this: make the heal from the skill can be manually activated with 1s recast timer and an ability (and keep the automatic function).
@@eternalinsignia You can use LilyBell on Phobos exclusively on EX1 and get insane value, its enough to keep your raid up through the nasty bleed alone. That being said, I do with it was better for dungeons. Feels strange to have to stand in every AOE for my super ability to get value.
WHM feels really bad because you are encouraged to just use a very simple DPS rotation while using your meager oGCDs. Tanks and DPS can heal themselves so most of the time you just end up feeling like a weaker DPS. Casting Lily's is actively discouraged since it is a GCD..
Nah, I don't want it to fully go back. Old thin air is also really bad if you use it for ressing. To me: 1. Keep it 2 charge, keep the cooldown, but make it duration half of the old one (this means it will be much effective even for ressing 2 people). And every 60 second, you basically guarantre with 2 cast for any skills. 2. Keep it like now but reduce the cooldown (recast timer) to 30s. Add stack to 3. This means over 2 minute, you will still guarante 4 gcd.
White mage just feels incredibly weak at the moment and awkward to use. Why is GCD healing not stronger than Astro's OGCD healing? That just makes Astro instantly a better pick. The healing potency just feels so incredibly weak, especially with random party finder tanks who have yet to figure out what damage mitigation is. The cast time reduction on the glare just burns through your mana so fast as well.
Longer cast also means lower dps on aoes. Think of black mage. On paper they are great dps in numbers. But in reality their long cast time means they have lowest dpses in fights with alot of movement. Their dps only works in static fights or bosses that rarely move or the area of fight is small. Whm has lowest aoe dps.
Holy 3 reminds me of Crystal Chronicles' Holy, which makes me smile My problem with some of the skills in the game is they make them for specific use-cases but those specific use-cases are few and far between. How often do you use Dark Mind in dungeons? Only when you misclick it. It's a useless cooldown.
A misery loses 340 potency of glare damage! It's awful! They should compensate for the Thin Air nerfs by making Lily mechanics oGCDs and have them single weavable. Keep misery as a GCD though, that's just too much. I've been running extremes with friends and I pretty much gauge the performance of the group by how many Lilies I overcap on. I burn 3 lilies on intermissions just so I can get a Misery without losing downtime. A Scholar and Sage co-healer has more than enough oGCD healing tools to nearly solo heal both fights with 100% GCD uptime.
I was curious how others felt because where I like white mage somethings just bothered me while doing the extremes. Though can't wait for savage to see what happens eith the class. Great video
As an AST main it’s a real let down that WHM has suffered so much. If it were up to me I’d take some OGCDs away from AST but give it a more refined card system, add some OGCDs to WHM, make Lilly’s true off globals and improve MP recovery. :(
Ast and whm are fine. Ast ogcds dont rely on resources. Whm rely on resources and must be in battle to recharge. They are the ONLY healer whose kit is locked in combat besides Sch. But sch get at least fairy heals and even kit that is clunky. If whm gage can recharge like Sage out of combat or like Sch with aethetflow and dissipation with weakened heal just like dissipation losing fairy but instead whm has lower potency instead of increased potency. Whm gage system wonkiness is why even tho whm has highest potency heals but still struggle as healer. If their lillies heals are more accessible they wouldnt rely on gcds as much.
Thank you for the great analysis. So far with the current two X, there is downtime where lillies can be wasted to charge the blood lilly, often raid buffs are up shortly after as well. On the secon x, apart from the mechanic at the end, Liturgy can also be used on stack+aoe, which will give a 1,4k heal potency.
I was wondering why WHM felt noticably less...idk, enjoyable I guess. I think your description about cast timings in fights might be it. That and getting its mana costs in time with Astro would be really nice. Also yes, lilybell feels like something I just rarely ever use outside of like zodiark ex. Thanks for sharing your thoughts!
I'm glad i'm not the only one having a hard time finding where to use liturgy now that harder content has dropped. With Zodiark it was perfect for Styx but outside of that you have to consider where it would proc enough. I must admit I haven't gotten out of the habit of using the lilies as I guess I'm still stuck in Shb mode. The one thing afflatus has still is a larger radius for spread mechanics(than medica 1 and cure 3)
I played under 500 piety before savage and had no mp management issues whatsoever. I use assize on cooldown (unless a raid buster is coming up - 10s), I prioritize lily usage over casts and use them for emergency healing or burst heals with plenary. Creating a healthy cooldown mapping and using asilum on low damage density or between mechanics, bell on multiple hitting mechanics or multiple raidwides, I've never really struggled with healing aswell as mp. I pulled rank 40 on zodiark and rank 63 on hydaelyn with both runs having extra healing casts and raises due to mistakes being made. White mage is in a bad state due to it being a weaker sage dps wise and a weaker astro healing wise, but it really is amazing and still the best healing job for mistake covering, I would understand the "management" playstyle being hard to grasp but I have lots of fun with it and enjoy playing savage with 390 piety, currently on p3s still having no mp issues due to a healthy cooldown mapping. It feels extremely rewarding to be able to do a lot during a fight and consistently get very high logs even in low performance parties.
I am a little disappointed with the changes. Sure, Aquaveil is not bad, it stacks with Divine Benison. Like everyone else, I don't like the charge Thin Air... and the Assize 10% to 5% MP change is feeling like I'm cheapened out on mana. I can keep my mana up, no problem, but that 5% change can be the difference of life and death, of the case I need to res deaths. (And if it's more than 1 death, I'm basically screwed.)
Liturgy is basically the old Thin Air + Cure III spam. Situational but incredible when it works... Since Thin Air was gutted, they had to give us something else.
Versus what? 3 cast of spells every 2 min from old thin air? Current thin air is miles better. You get 2 charges every minute. I like current thin air better. Old thin air is 15 sec of free cast. Assuming you can squeeze in 3 spells. Most whm spells take 5 sec to cast. 2 sec to cast, 3 sec global. Max is 3 spell casts out of it.
@@zlonewolf You don't get 2 Charges every minute, also the Old Thin Air wasn't 3 Spells, it was 6 Spells on 90 Secs Window, now to cast the same 6 Spells you need 360 secs.
Black Mages are rewarded with Polyglot stacks for keeping their astral fire and umbral ice going. Lilies looks like a similar system but the fact that you aren't rewarded at all for it seems weird to me.
Lilies don't require maintenance like Enochian. You gain them just for being in combat and you can't "drop" them unless you die or sit at cap, which honestly is the norm rather than the exception considering how lackluster lilies feel currently.
The big difference is you *always* want to be doing damage, and Xenoglossy is our strongest spell. You don't always need to heal, much less GCD heal, so even the fact that lilies conserve mana is questionable.
Thanks for the vid, theyve always been a great help for me on my healers :) hopefully we get some good news for whm in the upcoming patch. Ive just made a fresh toon to relearn how to play it for endwalkers im feeling a little put off now lol.
What I am concerned about is that I'm not encouraged to use the lily spells since afflatus misery is a dps loss compared to four glares. The only situation where I spend lilys is as a last resort when everything else is on cd. I wish that they could either bump up the potency of afflatus misery to make it at least dps neutral and/or make lily spells ogcd. And why does the WHM spells cost more than for example the AST equivalent spells for its potency? and the lily bell is another beast I agree with the proposal of making it trigger off any damage going out to the group.
The main thing around these issues is that they’re a byproduct of Homogenization, and subsequently identity loss for classes. It isn’t as obvious with dps classes, but you notice it the most with tanks and healers. The changes are mainly to make white mage more “in line” with other healers, but it doesn’t do anything to fix the underlying issues that the class has, and in fact has more sprout up in its place. Homogenizing CAN work, and it can keep a class’ identity, but how the dev team is going about it makes it not work on both ends. Everyone remembers the healer changes in shadowbringers to make them more “simplified”, when in the end it just gave white mages a buff by making the other healers get nerfed to their level. Hell, scholar got the worst of it dps wise considering all their DoT effect got disintegrated into nothing and they were left with only bio. The same thing is happening right now to white mage and even dark knight because they’re attempting to make everything more similar and they’re going about it completely the wrong way.
Why is everyone saying that the lilybell is niche? The scenarios were you'd get the full value out of it are, but nothing is stopping you from using it like you'd use any delayed healing (e.g. horoscopos, earthly star) if there's nothing at the time in the fight specifically calling for it AND it even has the added benefit of being deployable wherever you want so it also works for mechanics that require having the team spread around the arena.
@@Val_Grnnx the fact that multihits are not going to be a mechanic you will see in most savage fights meaning lilybell will always only give you its minimum value +1 pulse from a raidwide
@@aliasonarcotics well, you seem to have privileged information that no one else does; still, I'd take the 1200 pot each 3 min on standard raidwides, not every ability needs to be utilized to its full potential in every single fight and making fights a game of always having the right answer for every situation sounds kind of boring to me
I don’t really have any issues with the whm except that change of cast time that throws everything off. But I may change to sage main because this job is insanely fun to play
I'd say keep Afflatus damage at 900 (or nerf it slightly to say ~800 potency since it is an AoE after all) but make the Misery Lily bloom at 2 stacks instead of 3. Right now you need 3 GCD heals to "refund" your damage, and it adds insult to injury if you finish the fight with stacks sitting there even if you play optimally, since it's considerably hard to blow all 3 unless there is downtime, and if you end up needing only 1~2 it's better to pop Medica II or something stronger as you said. Blooming at 2 would add a lot more versatility to the system imo, and allow for a lower potency number as well.
2nd Extreme you can get a double proc at the start by placing during the first cast or during one of the two first mechanics. ATM a 2 proc is what around 28k hp? So a bit shy of half health for tanks and ~2/3s of non-tanks. I think that's a good enough of a breakpoint for it worth as a 3min CD. Perhaps letting it also proc when you use an afflatus heal? Would let it serve as a tool to use when you really need healing as well as a heal multiple raidwide hits option. What's funny is Thin Air at media tour WAS 2 uses and that was fine. It was slightly worse than old Thin Air since you get 4 casts ever 2min vs 5casts. I think lilies are my biggest issue with the job atm. They just feel how they did when they were first introduced, the thing SE slapped onto WHM because they needed SOME job gauge mechanic for it since every other job got a gauge. I don't want to say they need a complete rework but you can tell SE is being lazy with WHM's gauge. Giving us a single target Misery that's always dps neutral with glare so WHM actually wants to leverage their gcds heals would go a long way. Or at least one that's DPS neutral/positive under raidbuffs so we have a reason to use what should be the main gimmick of the job. At least it's better than them being the thing you spam when the boss is invulnerable to try and get orange overheal parses. I have a tiny qualm with Aquaveil too since the AST equivalent is basically always just better by a lot. A 500pot cure is just way better than 5% more mitigation, the damage taken in the 8s window would have to double the tank's hp after all other mitigation for the two to even start to come close. I sorta feel it needs a little something added on instead of just pure mit. If lilies were worth a damn, having Aquaveil give you a lily would honestly be enough to make it not look horrible compared to the AST version. And I think it's somewhat fair to compare those 2 buttons since they're supposed to be roughly equivalent abilities you're probably comparing AST vs WHM for what to bring to raid. But yeah the job basically just has some clunk. I think part of that is because SE just doesn't design fights to really tax our healing throughput and we just oGCD everything and WHM sucks at that. And I don't see SE changing that anytime soon. They've found how they like to design fights from the tank-heal-damage perspective and have shown 0 signs of that changing anytime soon.
I just had an epiphany which continues Liturgy's nicheness: if the tank dies in a dungeon pull, swiftraise the tank, plop down Liturgy, and powerheal until the tank gets back up. Maybe the 1 second space between heals may be the Achilles' HEAL, but often times my strategy in recovering in a tank raise is just mindless overhealing until the tank recentralizes the damage and Liturgy can probably help with that.
This wouldn't work too well since you would have to take damage for the bell to go off. Usually the dps are next in line for aggro after the tanks so Liturgy of the bell wouldn't do anything to help in this case.
How to make the fixes for the Lily's stacking problem? Simple give it a third use in a oGCD single target misery, making it basically a extra Glare 3 plus a little more potency.
You left out a bunch of DB compared to CI. DB is a shield equivalent to 500 potency so it is always a set value and cannot crit, it lasts 15 seconds per cast and compared to CI which is a 200 potency heal with a 200% shield (3x, don’t get confused by 200%) which means it’s an inherit 600 potency shield with a 200 potency heal THAT CAN CRIT. CI lasts 30 seconds as opposed to DB 15 seconds per charge, so CI is never down unless used, as opposed to mis timing a DB can waste a shield then a TB pops up when it would be useful. DB also is stupidly limited to party members only where CI is not, get in the Nier raids where the main tanks healers are slacking? Slap a CI and Aspected ben to do their job, or out in bozja and have a main tank not in your party? CI no problem, if it’s not your party tank then why not, no one needs it besides the dude taking damage and it’s a cure 2/benefic 2 potency OGCD as opposed to DB being a cure 1/Benefic 1 potency and DB can’t crit (not to mention Astro could stack the shield with neutral sect aspected bene for a 250 potency regen + 250% shield on top) And that’s just 1 problem I have with WHM vs AST this DLC They changed 3rd eye/merciful eyes on samurai because “samurai aren’t tanks so we adjusted it to be a timed mitigation if you get hit” then proceeded to throw that logic out the window and take a hit from a crack pipe “let’s make the healer get hit 5 times within 15 seconds and make this a 3 minute cooldown and any stacks not used get the healing potency cut in half and trigger it forcefully!” Besides a multi hit stack marker, when will this be useful where a plenary indulgence + cure 3 or medica 2 wouldn’t? Even then on a 3 minute CD you would have to wait 1-3 min into a fight to get the stack then 3 on CD and hope it’s up for the next and most enrage timers are 10-12 minutes it would be a miracle to see this skill more than 2 times a fight AST gets earthly star for 720 potency heal every 60 seconds and they get 20 seconds to choose or let it auto detonate, why not keep Lily 5 stacks, every 30 seconds 1 is wasted for 400 potency OR you can expend 2 at once for a 400 potency instantly that way even if you don’t force the stacks it’s up for 2:30 and only down for 30 seconds? Throwing out 3rd eye logic and samurai and slapping it on WHM x5 is some of the dumbest developer shit I’ve seen yet (besides Xeno’s new video on dark knight they also got fucked) Astro’s new sigil system Astrodyne now also gives them Presence of Mind on top of a second Lucid dreaming charge on top of extra damage and healing buff besides their neutral sect??? What the actual fuck is the balance here, take away WHM thin air and nerf it to 2 stacks to prevent cure 3 spam on stacks then proceed to give Astro everything that made WHM unique? Astro also gets light speed for 12 seconds of unlimited swift cast on every spell besides raise, where does WHM get any compensation? Astro gets 2 card slots to boost 2 dps by 6% each on top of raidwide 6% and each card is 500 MP every 30 seconds on top of lucid dreaming on top of astrodyne and the new Lord of Crowns vs Lady of Crowns let’s you hold either a 400 potency heal for 59 seconds or a 250 AOE with no penalty but on WHM if you hold assize you lose DPS for a 400 potency attack and waste a 400 potency heal of you aren’t spamming it on CD every 45 seconds and you get only 500mp from that and Lucid dreaming as your only recovery options. It’s stupidly unfair. Astro celestial opposition can also stack with its medica 2 equivalent for double AOE regen and hell even the 3rd with its bubble applying the regen even without you in it after the initial cast, makes doing mechanics in boss fights doable since you don’t have to cluster all 8 people that generally have to be in unique positions to heal, just apply needed regen and do your jobs, WHM? Hope you swiftcast medica 2 and hope that’s enough, plenary indulgence may boost the main heal but Horiscope lets you add 400 potency to a triggered heal of your choice on Astro for 30 seconds (notice Astro gets to choose when to burst heal it doesn’t require everyone being within dick grabbing range to be effective especially with its earthly star cure 2 the size of the entire damn map) The only thing WHM has that’s unique left is Holy and benediction which is useless right now because there are like 2 Dark knights to living dead since they also got fucked why bring a WHM if you have no DRK, GNB have their own excog and 2 regens now and chances are they would have wasted your benediction anyways. even the blood lily stayed at 900 potency and it was already a dps loss before since lily is on GCD, glare at 310 potency makes it a 30 potency loss even with the blood lilies intended catch up mechanic because it was fucking forgotten. Last thing I will mention is the mitigation, Aqua veil vs Exaltation. 15% dmg red vs 10%, oh but wait, AST gets a 500 potency heal that goes off at the end that you guessed it! It can also crit. Macrocosmos being the “counterpart” to the lilybell I don’t even wanna talk after all the BS WHM has now. Scholar is able to use 3 600 potency OGCD’s off a skill that grants 3 charges every 60 seconds so they can weave big heals between attacks or AoE heals like succor, not to mention the 150 potency the fairy adds so it’s really 750 potency. But WHM? No having a 700-800 potency lily be OGCD would be too OP. Look WHM can still be used but you have NO reason to use it instead of Astro for pure healer, the big burst heals of PI + cure 3 will go into overheal (wasted) especially with the enhanced healing boost as opposed to 1-3 stacked regens you can choose depending on how bad the situation is and they come back in 60 seconds as opposed to the WHM bubble for 90 seconds that you have to stand in to get both effects and AST dmg reduction from the bubble is used when you see a stack marker or have the party group for the big cinematic attack so it’s not wasted when they flash the bubble for free regen. The community is vocal on DRK and SCH abandonment but WHM is just sitting here getting the shit end of the stick while AST is being written like a 5 year old making their own superhero
I agree to this playing as WHM in EX trials when put into an MP recovery position its difficult to gain it back. The cost of my GCDs are so high, thin air can't keep up with just two charges. The DB animation lock i also agree with, there have been times I urgently, immediately needed to shield and pressed the skill however it was to late because of the delay. I started the game as WHM and in ShB it felt good to play to me, now I'm not sure I enjoy it so much. Whenever my cohealer are SGE or AST it seems they fair much better on MP management etc. Perhaps its my own skill level, but something about these changes make WHM feel less enjoyable
@@elucestavrestil6593 no it isn’t your skill level, objectively and factually the WHM just was left in the dust in terms of usefulness and practicality. PI + Temperance + Cure 3 and Lilybell would be overheal x50 wasting so much unnecessary healing as opposed to Astro’s regens that can stack and last 15 seconds each for 45 seconds of consistent regen and in 15 seconds the initial OGCD regen is back and can be stacked with Aspected Helios again, they literally just treated WHM like DRK and forgot about it besides giving it 1 unique move and a pitiful excuse for a mitigation compared to its counterparts. Just like how DRK blackest night got absolutely destroyed by WAR bloodwhetting, PLD holy shelltron, GNB Heart of Corundum, DRK and WHM the dream team just got thrown into the fucking trash to burn
@@neru1835 considering I was comparing and contrasting 2 classes skill for skill yes it is long, so don’t read or read the first sentence of one paragraph that starts with a skill name you’re interested in and call it a day
Also most healers aoes are instant casts. Whm has the Lowest potency aoes. Ast, sage and sch aoes are all instant casts i believe AND has higher potency. Only thing unique to whm is 4 sec stuns. But it scales down to 2 seconds in higher level dungeons or outright bypassed by certain mobs being unstunnable.
@@zlonewolf and the stuns only work a max of 3 times too before they dont work on the mobs. You cannot stun them more than 3 times and each stun gets shorter each time . Eventually a stun will work a 4, 5 and 6th time on an enemy, but usually they are dead long before enough time passes before they can be stunned again.
This is a question i have a hard time understanding: if the whm mana economy is so bad, why continue to ignore Cure 1 in favor of Cure 2? Wouldn't that solve the MP economy problem with only a minor drop in HPS/DPS?
Still on my way to get WHM and AST to lv90 but man I kinda wish they will make Lily heals a 1.5s recast GCD instead, the momentum is really off right there but balance-wise I'm not so sure.... Also did I hear that right that AST doesn't lose seals after death? That's ridiculous.
Would OGCD lilies be so broken? It would make so many of these issues feel better in one go. Also the Thin Air change removed its option as a recovery tool and relegated it to, essentially, flat mana regen. I just prioritize a stack for Medica 2 vs raidwides and keep the other stack for Raise, it doesn't feel good using it for anything else.
I don't think oGCD lilies would be busted as long as they adjust Misery's potency. Afflatus Misery can't remain at 900 potency if charging it is 100% free. I think just making lilies DPS neutral or slightly DPS positive would make more sense, though. Lilies have the potential to be an interesting mix of being GCDs, but with the same efficiency as oGCDs. No other job offers that and it could be a unique WHM-specific thing.
You can use liturgy in 2nd fight in the beginning right as the stack cast is finishing n itll heal the water stack as well n top everyone off after water but the timing is pain
Could have just made it so the bell could be manually triggered so we don't have to take dmg to get healed. The timing for the stack burst can be left alone tho.
Looks to me they change other healer, change WHM, but forget to see the issue of WHM to begin with (which is MP). To me if they want to keep thin air like that, then add MP recovery from afflatus gcd (just let me feel good that I don't use that gcd for nothing (aka only due to it is almost full and I need that misery)). 10% for solace and rapture, then 20% for misery is enough. For additional change, whenever WHM is raised or go into dungeon, give 1 or 2 lily. (Same for SCH, just give them aetherflow stack). They also need to add active component to lhiturgy of the bell. Just let the people choose when they will manually activate the heal or let it automatically heal. For thin air, if they want to keep it like this, lower the cooldown to 30 second. If they can change it to older thin air, I rather love to have 2 charge of thin air with 5 s duration (keep the cooldown). Other than that some MP changes in WHM skill.
I've never had any issues with MP management on my WHM... You can't faceroll this; the class still has to be played well, but if it is, there is no issues with MP. Still the biggest and best tool kit of the 4 healers... Not Sage easy to play, but also brings more utility to PVE than any other healer and it's only gotten better with the 6.1 patch.
in the past, it was worth it to dump 2 lilies to complete a blood lily before the battle ended. that is to say, you want to end cleanly with 0 blood lily, because otherwise the 1 or 2 lily healing you did were all wasted (not converted to dps). now it’s not even worth trying to complete a blood lily because you lose even more dps dumping lilies versus just using glare. this also means that you should not be wasting any gcds on lily heals in the first place UNLESS you are forced to use them for movement and you can complete a blood lily with those movement lilies. the reasons to even bother with the lily system at all is shrinking because of bad numbers balancing
I've mained WHM since ARR. I love WHM and while I am not quite highed end tier raider or anything super high difficulty. I found WHM to be quite fine through my MSQ even in EW. Of course things got dicey at first. But I've already learned to make do with what I have and with gear no longer worry about anything while using WHM. Of course, now I am using SGE. Mostly because I'm tired of hardly ever use most of my kit as WHM. Unless I am saving a raid from a near wipe. Seriously, My three tool bars are full of almost pointless abilities that only get used unless it is for the occasion of saving a raid. Lilly Bell is damn near useless for me and I hardly ever see the point of using Aquaveil, when Divine Benision does just as good if not better job. Plenary Indulgence is just... there until I remember it exists. If I had to complain about a recent change to our kit. It would be Thin Air. They should not have touched it. In its current state it is neutered and only useful if you are rezzing people after being rezzed yourself. Lilly Belly has no use for me and Aquaveil is just, there. I enjoy being able to rescue a raid from a near wipe. But that should hopefully not ever need to happen. As once people learn raids and trials. Then there is no need to use much of my abilities as WHM.
MSQ doesn't require you to use half your kit as a healer. Try doing EX trials or Savage, you'll learn to use all of your kit, or fall behind. That's the reason you don't see anything wrong with it besides Thin Air. Because you've never had to properly use your abilities.
WM to me is just that sit back relax with a bunch of "Oh %%%%" heals. It's my goto when new raids or dungeons come out to get the feels. Then I switch to ASTRO which is my fav.
I think WHM really suffers from the lack of ogcd’s. Especially with cast times now being 1.5 seconds. There’s room to weave, but no spells/abilities to do so. I think give Tetra a second charge and make the lillies ogcd. Would instantly switch WHM from one of the weakest healers currently to one of, if not, the best.
I don’t think they will ever do that because the ‘job theme’ of WHM is GCD heals. I think the bad oGCDs are an intentional, builtin weakness so there’s no way the devs will load them up with any more oGCDs.
@@aliasonarcotics totally agree with this, although in sticking to this mantra the job is suffering I think. There are just better choices. Not to mention that the mp cost of their spells is greater than that of even the other pure healer. If they want to keep them as a gcd healer, why not give them some more dps options that aren’t on the global cooldown? There are things they could do to stop it feeling so clunky
@@jamieanderson8308 I think it can work, but they really need to bump up potencies. That way the WHM is a slow, but powerful healer. Mostly, I think the WHM should get more to things that buff their GCDs. I think making Thin Air also boost the power of the next spell would help with that and then reducing its cooldown (probably 30sec) with charges. That way you’ll weave it after a Glare and then pick a spell or another Glare. Also bump Afflatus Misery’s damage.
@@toodleselnoodos6738 they definitely need to do something. At the high end, savage and that type of content, it’s going to lose out. It definitely hits hard, in terms of dps. But you need to basically just spam Glare in order to to achieve this. But in savage it’s all about doing as little healing as possible around your attacks. So ogcd healing is king. And WHM still has very little ogcd healing to speak of. And it’s gcd’s are very expensive. It needs some love I think.
Lily heals need to be oGCD. That would solve a lot of WHM's issues. Sage's Addersgall is so similar to lilies, but Addersgall is superior in almost every way.
I always preferred playing a White Mage before EW because i just FELT powerful in 50+ content. But i gotta say right now i dont feel that way anymore. Playing all the healers in 90 content i personally feel like whm i struggle the most. It feels like there just isnt enough resources. I'm no expert so i can't say for sure what needs to change here but i miss feeling like a godly healer as whm. I wish there was more ogcds available, since at the moment assize is used on cooldown for its damage. I think it'd feel better if the lillies worked more like sage. Why does addersgall fill even outside of battle and lillies dont? Why do they get a charge of gall every 20 seconds compared to lillies every 30? Why do their gall abilities all restore some mp when lillies dont? Its just superior in every way. I think itd also help a lot if you didnt lose your lillies on death.
WHM Lillies are a relic from the days before charged actions, and they desperately need a rework. It'd be cool if you built the gauge by casting damaging spells
I had a couple of chill log runs, trying to squeeze as much as I can without gimping piety/heals or letting other healer do all the heals, and frankly, I feel like WHM doesn't have enough ogcds to actually have fun. Nothing has changed with how WHM plays (except MP shenanigans), but playing Sage and now going AST from 80 to 90, I am somehow disappointed with WHM. Lilybell only proccing off damage on me makes it so much less than Panhaima on 2 min cd and bell is 3 min cd. Sure, lilybell has more potency, but bare panhaima can usually get the job done. We'll see how Sage's kit holds up in savage, but hey, I can buff panhaima... On T2 ex trial, when H shoots crystals three times between different job roles, lilybell is like, a total joke. My static will welcome me going AST should I choose to do it..., and frankly, doing plenty of SCH+SGE EX runs it didn't feel obnoxious either, I'm really considering at least trying out SCH+SGE duo in savages, subject to content of course.
that's because that is whm's identity. or what the devs want it to be anyway. a gcd healer. its ogcd game has always been mediocre in exchange for (questionably?) better gcd heals, a gcd healing job bar and gcd healing buffs whether or not a gcd healer makes any sense at all in the current encounter design remains to be seen
Thin air annoys me to no end. Also glare and other skills are now out of sync with GCD and the cast bar making me miss attacks, but that may be more gear related... I hope...
So because Glare's cast time is shorter, you don't need to use lily spells to weave, and that's a nerf because now there's no DPS benefit to using lilies? Even though you're replacing those lily casts with more Glares? Shadowbringers Holy was awesome, but Endwalker Holy is bad because it has the exact same cast time and does more damage? Not sure I'm understanding the video.
Changes to Glare and it's effects on Lilies feels like we're reverting back to SB/HW/ARR gameplay. Now if we want to use a gcd heal we will more often go for Medica 2 or Regen than Rapture or Solace because they do more healing for the same cost. In SHB Lilies fit neatly with Glare's long cast and it's refund mechanic worked out where if you use 1 lily because you needed it, you can use the other 2 without worrying about further DPS loss which isn't the case anymore. Buffing Misery to bring this interaction back would be a welcome change (make it DPS neutral since there's less need for weaving/movement time due to new Glare) He never praised SHB holy once, he's directly comparing current Holy to the other 3 healer's AOE. It is weird that Holy isn't 1.5 because we still have to clip. You would think, they removed the clipping issue by reducing the cast time on the single target, why not do the same with Holy. Especially since they added even more heals/mit to weave in between in EW (DB charge, Aquaveil, Bell)
i wouldn't say it's a nerf but it's bad either way, because it invalidates your job bar. imagine if samurai sen/kenki was never utilised, if you never used aetherflow on sch or addersgall on sge, or any kind of job bar, because se designed your job to make your job bar irrelevant. that's why it's bad. i think lilies were a pretty fun tool to use in shadowbringers so i am sad that they made the job bar so useless just because of bad potency balance i don't think shadowbringers holy was that great either. same clipping problem, same movement problem, same cast time problem. same problem where you stun mobs that haven't been grouped up tightly enough yet, so you waste the dps's damage and end up wasting even more time killing those remaining stragglers. i think they should just delete the stun and make it do a debuff that just prevents mobs from attacking. that'll let the mobs still be able to move about freely and also let them and melee dps stun mob aoes
