I love all the dialogue explaining that Shadow literally can't sustain his Super form, which makes sense seeing as Super is a form Sonic has used multiple times, but Shadow is just now exposed to this. He also has his inhibitor rings, which are likely making it even harder to sustain Super since he can't control his energy on his own
What? That doesn't make any sense. Shadow's inhibitor rings wouldn't have made in difference how long he could keep his super form because they're not linked to the Chaos Emeralds. My guess is Shadow was burning through his energy faster than Sonic because at this point Sonic knows how to conserve his energy in his super form. The only reason Shadow was struglling was because of inexperience.
The inhibitor rings hold back Shadow's full power, so he can properly control it. Once he removes them it's unleashed all at once and it burns through his energy quickly and can't maintain it for long, so with his super state having those rings off will burn through even more energy, and due to his inexperience with using the full power of the 7 Chaos Emeralds it costed Shadow deeply, which is most likely why he couldn't maintain his super form long and then lost his memory.
I think it’s also supposed to imply that Sonic’s potential is greater than Shadow’s: Shadow is near his limit, but Sonic still has room to grow even further. It might have even been part of an abandoned plot thread, for this game to have been a stealth origin story for sonic
It's really unnerving with the characters worrying you more and more about how close the ark is to earth, and the screen going more red and sonic and shadow and the ark setting on fire. That's a climatic final boss that's more than just a fifty second time limit.
It's guaranteed to play at the 4 minute mark when playing as Sonic in the fight, and keep in mind Shadow is basically a different character after Adventure 2 due to his amnesia and putting his past behind him to live a new life for himself. If Shadow never suffered from amnesia, then he'd definitely be much more different than he is now and how he was originally portrayed before working with Sonic to save Earth.
@@Safalmao They're both the Ultimate Lifeforms, it's just that Sonic was the one that Gerald based Shadow off of from the mural of Super Sonic in Sonic 3&K
@@omaralfar1666 there can only be one, and sonic is the real one, in the game right after this it was was said/shown that sonic was in super form flying from the moon, back to earth for "a few days", when shadow couldn't do it for 5 minutes!
@@Safalmao Even in Adventure 2 and some games like Unleashed and Black Knight theres a lot of implications that Sonic is unaware of his strength He used a Fake Chaos Emerald for Chaos Control which shouldnt even be possible according to Shadow you know, the same person who knows about the Chaos Emerald true nature He is apparently unnaturally good natured to the point a shattered Dark Gaia cant corrupt him at all And he is strong enough to move forward on things that really should make normal people lose their hope on life
DANG! O_O The dialogue actually warns of Shadow's disappearance after the battle! I've gotten only as far as past the 3 minute mark for average gameplay, only reach the end of the time limit on purpose. Thanks for the compilation!
as epic as this game and boss fight is, im surprised nobody is talking about the fight being against a giant lizard with a satellite sized rod shoved up his ass
i know there are a lot of younger sonic fans nowadays who might not be aware, but trust me, those jokes have already been made a thousandfold, we've heard enough of them...
wait sonic is the ultimate life form ?, then this confirms the theory that shadow was actually based on the super sonic drawing in the hidden palace zone .
@@mayisaythatsasmashingblous5876 Well maybe, but the way he said it sounded like he just found the answer to life, and still you have to admit shadow being based after sonic isn't that impossible.
@@lpfan4491 Yeah. That mural of Super Sonic and Eggman is in the Hidden Palace when you fight Knuckles. That's why Base Shadow resembles Super Sonic and maybe the reason why Shadow is a hedgehog in the first place. Its pretty interesting in retrospect.
I thought it was pretty unclear where exactly hidden palace zone is,just that is within reach of the other places(where he caught rouge in sa2 next to the stage I forgot the name of,sky sanctuary,angel island and mystic ruins)
2:07 Shadows line hits hard imagine saving the planet full of the same people that took your only family right in front of you shadows promise to Maria is heartbreaking
You know, I always questioned why only Shadow "dies" when they both use the simultaneous Chaos Control after beating thr Final Hazard, but these dialogues between Sonic & Shadow answer my question! Not only does Shadow show immense exhaustion numerous times when fighting in his Super form with Sonic getting increasingly worried about Shadow, but he also lacks the experience being in a Super form in the first place, unlike Sonic who has used the form (outside of spinoffs) at least 5 times at this point! And four of those times involved Super Sonic fighting either one of Eggman's larger machines or Perfect Chaos in Adventure 1! While I wish you didn't have to wait until the 3-4 minute mark to hear these lines, it's still really cool foreSHADOWing for the ending! And it harkins back to the classic era of Sonic when he ised the Super form much more often at the player's whim since as long as you collected the Chaos Emeralds and 50 Rings, you could transform at any time! And fun fact: Originally, if you collected all this game's Emblems and unlocked Green Hill Zone (WAY easier said than done!), by getting an A-Rank in that Level, you would unlock Super Sonic & Super Shadow for multiplayer! Unfortunately, due to time constraints, they scrapped this feature. Maybe if this and Adventure 1 get HD Remakes (like the Crash Bandicoot N. Sane Trilogy for reference), maybe we'll see some of the cut content from both games in here!
considering shadow is implied to be inspired by murals in the ruins of the echidna clan, murals which depict prophecies of sonic's battles, its entirely possible that sonic is *actually* the ultimate life form as shadow says, and is why he can withstand the chaos energy much better than shadow himself
Wait I thought Sonic only transformed into super Sonic 4 times, including Adventure 2, up until this point. All mainline games where Sonic turns into super Sonic up until this game: Sonic 2 Sonic 3&Knuckles Sonic Adventure 1 Sonic Adventure 2
ngl this is what the Frontiers bosses (especially the new final fight) are missing This kind of dialogue can easily get grating (Generations), but in SA2 - 06 it really helps to make the setpiece even grander than it would have been without it Silent fights just feel kinda empty in comparison (also the not-so-subtle gameplay hints through banter would have been appreciated in Frontiers)
so the hiding deeper lore way down the line in the final boss battle started(?) here (they do it in Shadow the Hedgehog as well) that's cool! I always liked this! the {discovering a huge secret and telling your friends about it} aspect of it, it's great! I found that some of the sonic games have great subtle story-telling like SA2 and '06 all throughout their games but don't draw explicit attention to it, so this sort of thing fits right in! thanks for sharing (:
I think in some ways it was expressed through mechanics in the way that as the fight progressed you didn’t get as many rings when they tagged in/out You were penalized for switching without dealing damage yes, but even after so many turns of successful hits your starting ring count got lower and lower
Yeah it’s a good attempt at holistic story telling but it falls flat with the “reverse” incentive of losing. If there’s any consolation, they do have it so regardless of if you’re doing well or not your starting ring count gradually drops
those clips take place during the transformation, not the fight itself(even tho amy responding to them is weird. eh, maybe she just listened telepathicly)
@@lpfan4491 Given that there ended up being using for during the fight in Sonic X would I assume there were indeed suppose to play during the final fight.
@@rynobehnke8289 Then the reason why they were cut was likely due to clutter. But I am still not convinced because they are actually set to play during the transformation. So they *are* cutscene dialogue.
Imagine if Sonic was the original ULF , and Maria dropped the capsule with Sonic to Earth. That's explains why Shadow was on Prison Island , Gerald was working on him after the ARK accident. Also Shadow seems weeker than the original ULF (Sonic) , 'cause he can't run fast without special shoes (NO SONC LABYRINTH LOGIC) , and he literally dies in the end of the game , but Sonic not. As I remember there was a cutscene where Rouge told Shadow that his memory can be fake. But then the Shadow The Hedgehog Game came in with new writer and everything went shit with trash alien shit. Imagine what could be with the series if they went that way? I mean at least we could have 2 characters with backstory in the game franchise. SEGA WHY??????????
@@superfamily2094 He is. Except Gerald didn't make Sonic. Sonic's existence was prophecized on Angel Island, and in Lost World (the level in SA1). But then how is he the ultimate lifeform? It's likely that he is a scientific absolute; when you pursue the concept of ultimate life, you will inevitably come across a design that closely resembles Sonic. All candidates for the Ultimate Lifeform have one trait in common: the innate ability to manipulate Chaos energy. But none of those three can even touch Sonic's level of mastery. I can't explain it as well as Khonjin, the man who crafted the SA2 Megatheory: the ultimate explanation for every plothole, every inconsistency, every seemingly-present error in SA2's story. His inevitable conclusion was that Sonic is the real Ultimate Lifeform. The video where he crafted this is called Competitive Review: Sonic Adventure 2: Part 1. For the megatheory, just watch to the middle of the video.
@@zekeram129 I can't even look on the games after Colors. With Roger Craig Smith Sonic is now a garbage , joking every scene. The writers changed and now Shadow is just a rival for Sonic (just like Knuckles rn , but edgy) without any plot. Just look at Tails in the end of SA 1 and 2 , and then at his behaviour in Sonic Forces. BTW There is no Angel Island , no master emerald or anything basic from first games. New writers literally killed canon. If 30th birthday game will be like Sonic Forces or Generations , I'll kill myself. I know Generations was cool , but its just a compilation of old levels. Same as Mania. Please Sega don't make anything with power of friendship , it worked only in Heroes. Boost gameplay has become so bad in later games after Unleashed , but I don't think that Adventure style is good for nowadays too. What do you think about the new games?
@@zekeram129 Actually, based on known info, it's likely that Sonic probably was made on the Ark. There's a bit of juicy lore in the Japanese only "Sonic Adventure 2 Perfect Guide" titled "The Truth of 50 Years Ago..." taking the form of a report made by Rouge to her superiors (presumably the President seen in the game that she is working for) on classified data notes she stole from GUN about the history of Project Shadow that displays some notable inconsistencies with Shadow's origin. It goes into Project Shadow, what happened on the Ark and why it was raided, but there's an ambiguous period after Maria sends the capsule to earth where no one really knows what happened. It is clearly trying to leave some things ambiguous, such as if Shadow is a clone or if Sonic is involved somehow, this reflects what the games writer Shiro Maekawa said when asked about Sonic's connection to the ark, he said he left it purposely ambiguous. However, the report states that the whereabouts of the capsule that was sent to earth are unknown. If it was GUNs super classified info, then that means that GUN does not know the whereabouts of the capsule or what was inside. This is contradictory seeing as they had Shadow locked in their basement on Prison Island. If he was the original made on the Ark, then why do they have him at all? This all points to the idea that was also hinted at in this report, that Shadow is in fact not the original specimen and that he is a clone created by Gerald on Prison Island (presumably because he was forced to by GUN as they wanted the true ultimate life form and couldn't recover the original). This is backed up by some things Gerald himself says in SA2s ending, including stuff like how Shadow's memories were all fake and implanted by Gerald so that he would more efficiently seek revenge. He also says he "finished" the ultimate life form on Prison Island with "original data". This could mean either option is valid, except we have more evidence towards him not just finishing Shadow on the island, but straight up creating him there. This leads on to how this connects with Sonic. If the Shadow we see in the game is a clone, and the original Shadow was never recovered, then that must mean there is another Shadow either dead somewhere on earth, it having died on reentry, or that it's running around somewhere, seeing as it's immortal. Where did this thing go? And what was it? No one except Gerald, Maria, and the Ark researchers ever actually saw the thing, Maria sent it away before the GUN soldiers could really get to it. It could have been anything, Shadow's memories aren't reliable because they are canonically altered and fake at least to an extent. So what do we know looks almost identical to Shadow, has all of his powers, is also potentially an ultimate life form and has an extremely ambiguous backstory with zero explanation for his bizarre abilities... It's Sonic. It literally has to be Sonic. Sonic must have been the original life form that was sent to earth, and Shadow is his weaponized clone made afterwards specifically for revenge. This is the best explanation and provides everything you need for SA2s story to suddenly make perfect sense. Sonic even quotes Maria's last words verbatim in the last cutscene, right after he was quietly pondering what it means to be the ultimate life form. There's other stuff that points to it but I'll leave it there. I went into so much detail because It's fun and other people might read this and I want more people to know about this, it makes SA2s story so much better and provides a great dichotomy between Sonic and Shadow knowing they are potentially so deeply connected. As a final note, I see this often thrown around a lot, but I'm pretty sure there is nothing in Lost World (the SA1 level) that depicts Sonic. It just has a mural showing Perfect Chaos destroying the echidnas, no Sonic to be seen at least to my knowledge. There's only Sonic related stuff on Angel Island. In fact there is a statue in the background of Hydro City Zone that shows a fully accurate statue of Sonic, not even a weird looking thing that might be him like in the mural, literally Sonic himself standing there in the background, striped shoes and all. Gerald probably made Sonic the way he is because he saw stuff like this on Angel Island, we know he went there because of the Master Emerald shrine in Cannons Core. Biolizard and the Artificial Chaos was an attempt at doing Chaos, Sonic was an attempt at doing... Well Sonic.
@@Squishito There is an issue with this tho. Sonic is 15 and ages. So for that to make sense, he must have been in stasis for at least 35 years after crashing down on christmas island. How did he just randomly awaken?
I've beaten this boss countless times and I'm only now realizing that after time passes not only does the dialogue get intense but the whole area starts engulfing into flames, eventually turning the screen bright red. Such a cool unnecessary touch.
Not just that once the time hits 5 minutes you will lose same goes with the rings you will spawn with rings lower than 50 each time and it will get lower more
Do you ever wonder ,where did sonic actually come from? Why does he have all this power? Why are there so many prophecies about him? Well yeah of course because he's the main character of the franchise, but I mean from a narrative perspective could there be a clear answer for that?, sometimes I wish the newer games would explore these concepts.
sadly,the games after unleashed dont give a damn about exploring any past concept anymore(one could see it as unleashed retconning the adventuregames,but i see it as the masteremeraldshine being the mainshrine that keeps the gaiatemples across the earth in check and that the only reason why sonic has to go them to begin with is that the masteremeraldshrine was destroyed)
@@lpfan4491i used to think that the emeralds originally existed in the Gaia temples but then were collected by the echidnas to be put next to the master emerald.
The Archie comics explore this way more than the games do. In that continuity, Sonic canonically has plot armor. He's an embodiment of chaos and controls fate itself as a result. It's pretty insane
His dynamic with Sonic in that game is a freak accident basically. Otherwise, his game gets a lot of unnessesary anger from fans compared to certain other games. Heck, he still clearly shows care for other people unlike Team memes racing.
@@misterman7102 By the point of the ARK crashing to earth, Shadow was already exhausted, so most likely both him and Sonic lose their super forms (Sonic is more experienced, but he has a limit as well), all while everyone in the ARK and Earth dies. If you ignore Solaris, this was one of the highets stakes in the sonic series, if you failed it meant the death of literally everyone.
Sonic was telling Shadow to get back to the colony because he was getting weaker and weaker as the fight went on due to his inexperience with using his super form and overexertion of his powers, so Sonic was basically telling Shadow to leave the rest of the fight to him to finish up. And Tails and Amy telling both Sonic and Shadow to get out of there was most likely them telling em to flat out leave the colony AND Earth to save themselves so they'd at least live while everything and everyone is destroyed.
Shadow was made to be the ultimate life form but sonic was born as the ultimate life form. That’s always been my take on the deeper meaning behind that quote in particular
It may be that Sonic just has more experience. At the moment, Shadow has only been awake for no more than a week or so and it's his first time using a super form. Sonic has been doing this for years at this point so he should know how to properly maintain and maximize it's potential.
@@brahimilotfi9689 If the kids weren't scared by this point in the game, I doubt that would've been any scarier. Plus Nintendo already did that shit with Majora's Mask years before.
@@Densester Super Mario Sunshine, Twilight Princess, and Sonic Adventure 2 all appeared on the gamecube and featured a faker or dark version of the main character.
I don’t get why sonic says “shadow i understand now your unstoppable” especially after all the other dialogue has been shadow struggling to stay powered up. Does anyone have an answer to this ?
Maybe sonic finally came to terms that shadow ain’t gonna stop regardless that it may cost him his life. All this dialogue was so good though, especially the lore behind it. But yes that part did confuse me some, but I think that is what it means.
Both are in terms with each other, Sonic admited that Shadow is unstoppable and will fight until the end, just like Shadow saying that Sonic might be the true ultimate life-form
It's a crusty translation error. It's basically Sonic accepting that there is no way of talking Shadow out of this. He can't be stopped, so unstoppable. Sonic is basically solemnly accepting that this is what he wants and this is how he wants it to end, and he's respecting that. But it doesn't work well like that when they use a word like "unstoppable". There's a lot of lines in the game that actually mean completely different things because of crusty translation, this is one of them.
I mean, what else could they do? At least they added a cool sparkle effect for Sonic/Shadow's detransformation. Unless you mean when the timer hits five minutes, then yeah, maybe a cutscene? Or how about when the timer hits 5:00, the hedgehogs lose their super forms, and then a cutscene of the ark entering the atmosphere, then eventually destroying earth and everything on it with the screen fading to black with nothing else and then going back to the main menu.
im noticing some weird deliveries by shadow. specifically when he tells you to aim for the red spots. did... ryan drummand record a couple of shadows lines?
Why not? In Sonic's case, he only cheers him because if ARK collides with Earth, Eggman will also die. And as for Shadow, Eggman has no reason to hate him (unless Shadow playing the doctor like a fiddle to act out his grandpa's revenge plan counts).
Not knocking people but you must really suck at the game to actually hear all the dialog but also I feel cheated because this is the first time I'm actually hearing new stuff
