FINNISH & KARELIAN 

Karelia is occupied by Russia now, and the local language there is subdued.

@@mshordness stop talking nonsense. Karelia is the territory of Russia, it is not occupied. And with regards to the language, a lot of effort is spent on saving it.

@@mshordness Karelia should have become independent in 1918

Yeah, i also think the language and its speakers' right to speak it in the Republic of Karelia should be protected in a similar way as Swedish in Finland. Karelian should be obligatory in schools as a second official language. And referring to another statement: "occupied" is not a correct word for Karelia, but Russia definitely does not respect the constitution of Karelia, its own constitution and the very meaning of "federalism"

@@evgeniiamarkova9360 yes, but the problem is that the speakers mostly do not want to speak Karelian. In Russian schools in the provinces there is such a subject as "mother tongue". This is an optional subject and is often ignored by students, because they prefer to speak Russian only.

I speak karelian. I am American but my family fled after the war when their home was lost and gulag wasn't exactly appealing and the uncertainty of another soviet invasion. I grew up watching mumons and always just assumed it was a different accent like people from the southern u.s or England have. Albeit the rakkastan sinua vs Minä suvaičen sinuu' always made me giggle . But I'd say it's really easy to learn. Then again I was a small child and they learn languages really easily . I do wish I could read and spell better in Finnish having no formal education outside of American English when it comes to languages.

@@thomashaapalainen4108 I saw that you said here that (Viena) Karelian and Finnish are same language. For Viena Karelian and Finnish, on the basis of mutual intelligibility they are, like Meänkieli in Sweden and Kven in Norway. If they are considered as distinct languages, it is on cultural grounds and because they are spoken in different countries. Meänkieli and Kven actually were Finnish dialects, but saying that about Viena, it would feel like Finnish is some kind of a norm. As well as Finnish could be Karelian dialect. Maybe there is language called viena-suomi, it could be. People can define their own identity, and if all Karelian (Viena) speakers would say that they speak Finnish, it would be so. I believe that most of them don't say so, and you are as correct in how you feel. As a Finn also I am correct in my own feeling about it. I see Finnish as a series of choices in historical continuum, with common history and development of own features. All Finnic languages have common roots, not so far in history, and that is why we can partly or wholly understand each other. Recognizing that connection makes me always happy.

You should do it too

Do you see it as a separate language or as more of a dialect?

@@DoubleWhopperWithCheese it is a different language though. I would not have understood completely the longer text, but I would have understood what it’s about.

@@molliebov2082 aaah, okay. Many thanks for your response. Probably be like an Italian reading a Spanish text. Many thanks!

@@DoubleWhopperWithCheese It is definitely a language. The claim "it's a dialect" is from the 1920s Finnish nationalist agenda. Before and after that, most Finnish linguists consider it a language.

@@Feudorkannabro I didn't know they had tried to consider it a dialect! Thank you for the context also. Seems like a similar thing to Spanish and Italian or Dutch and German or Portuguese and Spanish. Many thanks.

yes I'm amazigh from Morocco sous

with you ayuzzzz

vive le kabylie et vive amazigh imdokaln

@@user-xj3yl2jw5z kmi tgit tachl7it mani tzdght w masmy nm nki zdgh s_buzkarn d nki artirigh tutlaytin wayadnin n tamazight ❤

@@user-vy6yl8es5r tasmit ino s tasmit n lcount niw

у меня по матери вся семья с Карелии, но к сожалению из-за русификации (хотя в последнее время много подвижек - в том числе дублирование названий улиц на карельском), я не знаю карельский. надеюсь, что в скором времени всё больше людей будут знать свой родной язык

Their brother languages living next to each other for centuries.

Како си? Or do you pronounce it Как си? Как си is in Bulgarian.

In Russian it Как ты? kakty

@@Maria_Nizhny_Novgorod same in Serbian Как' ти

Those are bible texts, they are generally not suited for comparison because you need to make so many choices and considerations when translating.

all of those words in the Karelian sample are intelligible to Finnish speakers, it just sounds more old people language and colloquial compared to the standard Finnish.

karelian is just old finnish.

@@Mrityormokshiyarandom doubt: does it sound prettier or just funny?

Karelians are subject to Russian propaganda, they would be forced to be for the Russians 😢, But I, like Karel, still sided with the Finns and supported our fraternal people

As a native speaker of Finnish they of course don't feel that long, but you are correct, because it is known tendency in languages that the most used words get shorter. For example 10 is *ten* in English and *kymmenen* in Finnish and Karelian, there is a huge difference in length. In Estonian it is shorter, *kümme* . PS. When Finnish children play a game in which someone counts to 100 before trying to find others, they use heavily shortened numbers like yy, kaa, koo...

The classification of Finnish and Karelian as separate languages rather than dialects of the same can be contributed to history. This video also compared Finnish to Viena or "Northern" Karelian, which is the most similar to Finnish. The other Karelian dialects further south are less intelligible. Finnish and Karelian, similarly to for example Swedish, Danish and Norwegian, stem from an ancestral language and it's dialects spoken north of the gulf of Finland since around 2000 years ago give or take a few centuries. This splinter language spoken in the north is commonly called Northern Finnic and it branched off from proto-Finnic, with proto-Finnic being the last ancestor between Finnish/Karelian and Estonian. Anyhow, as the Northern Finnic speaking people consolidated into various tribes (Finns Proper in southwestern Finland, Tavastians further inland in central-ish southern Finland and Karelians in the southeast around lake Ladoga) during the Dark Ages/early Medieval period, northern Finnic diversified into different regional variations spoken among the different tribes and the Finns Proper and Tavastians formed the western branch and Karelians the eastern one. They also had different influences and interactions linguistically during this period, as the western tribes interacted with the Norse of Sweden and Karelians interacted with the relatively newly arrived Slavic people, although both sides interacted with the same groups to varying degrees, not just one or the other. Then during the 1100s and possibly earlier, Sweden and Novgorod started expanding their influence and later control over the Finnish tribes, which led to the western tribes being within Sweden's sphere of influence and Karelians in Novgorod's, so much so that they're described as being "allies" to Novgorod in conflicts with the Tavastians. As the centuries went on and both Sweden and Novgorod expanded, the tribes were swept up into the influence and control of one or the other. The western ones went to Sweden and Karelians to Novgorod. Then in 1323, Sweden and Novgorod signed the treaty of Nöteborg, agreeing on a border that split the Karelian isthmus, and with it, the Karelians. However it's likely that Karelians had already started to split on their own into western and eastern variaties centuries before this treaty, the treaty finalized it more than anything. The Karelians inhabiting the western parts of the isthmus and further north on the Swedish side of the border developed with the other Finnish groups under Sweden, developing into the Savonians due to mixing with Tavastians and Finnish Karelians in southeastern Finland and formerly on the Karelian isthmus pre-WW2. These areas would be known as West Karelia. As a result, they are part of the Finnish people and what they speak are eastern dialects of Finnish, even though they stemmed from the northern Finnic spoken by the Karelians. The ones left to Novgorod in 1323 developed outside of Sweden and the other Finnish groups resulting in the modern Eastern Karelians or just Karelians that inhabit East Karelia. The Karelians under Novgorod and later Muscovy/Russia then migrated and settled from the Karelian isthmus east and northward over the centuries.

Yes, Karelian is the closest language relative of Finnish. Though not completely mutually intelligible depending on the dialect of Karelian being spoken. The dialect used in this video (livvi-karelian) is said to be the most intelligible with Finnish.

yes. karelian is just old finnish

​@@puskamuha9000 no, karjalan is different languages with other culture

@@puskamuha9000 if that's the case, then it's a different language. Icelandic is basically old norse that evolved differently Karelian is the same.

There are Karelians and Karelians. Abt. 1,000 years ago all Karelians were more or less the same - the current Izhorians included. Then the emerging kingdoms, empires and religions divided them. The Western Karelians inside the borders of Sweden and later Finland became mostly Catholics (later Lutherans) and Finnish. Their language evolved to Karelian dialect of Finnish. However before the WW2 there were still a minority of c. 36,000 Orthodox Karelians, including c. 29,000 speakers of Karelian Proper (Southern or Aunus/Olonets or Livvi Karelian) language. The unfortunate Eastern Karelians became Orthodox and instead of the languages of the other Finnish tribes and Swedish, were influenced by russian language. That's why the language(s) of the Eastern Karelians is/are today own language(s), not dialect(s). However the Northern/Viena/White Karelian dialect of the Karelian proper is so close to Finnish, that it could be as correctly be classified as a dialect of Finnish language.

There isn't a sami language, the sami are the group of people opressed by norway, finland, sweden and russia who speak LANGUAGES (yes languages not a language!) that are similarily releated to eachother.

Ты Карелка?

Да

Тогда почему бы тебе не написать по-карельски?

В клавиатуре нету карельского

Do you have at least some knowledge of Karelian?

Not quite. karelian is more older than finnish and you could say the same with finnish that it has swedish influence. altogether, karelian is just more conservative than finnish with a little russian.

maybe it is harder to find people to record various dialects and compare them. But I Agree I would love to see such comparison

if you speak Amazigh you should volunteer by sending recordings to Andy

Also yheksän

No, these are definitely not the same, majority of linguists consider them a separate languages(which they are)

then norwegian and danish are the same language. (This kind of proves the concept we have of where a language starts and endss is inherently flawed)

Сталин был Грузином. С чего ему всех делать Русскими?

@@zhendos1985 do i look like i speak russian? :D

@@Alexandros.Mograine They said "stalin was a georgia. why would he make them russian?" I personally believe this is quite ignorant of how the power dynamics of the soviet union actually worked.

Karelian and particularly it's southern dialects are not only influenced by Russian, but also by Vepsian, another Baltic Finnic language.

Aside from numbers, I don't see anything that makes those languages "same".

Or is it? Livvi dialect of karelian differs as much from finnish as estonian, and the dialect in this video is vienan karjala which has many finnish loan words.

​@@Warriorshepherd57 So you prefer the russification and extinction?

​@@Warriorshepherd57 We Finns are not like the imperialistic ruscists. Of course we would give autonomy to the East Karelians - or even independence, if that's what they wanted. There just are so few real East Karelians left, that the full independence might be difficult to implement. From the Finnish point of view we unfortunately see East Karelia as an already lost cause. There's not much to be saved anymore.

@@timoterava7108 Karelia has been systematically opressed by finland. The only way to preserve these beautiful languages would be via the abolition of the concept of what we call a "state" as it priotises one group or numerous groups over another. Without a state we wouldn't have this priotisation that is present within those structures.

🇷🇺🇷🇺🇷🇺

I would like it to be independent, giving it to Finland is also okay, but, unfortunately, this region is dead, I'm sorry, it has been colonized by russhists. We can only dream...

And Finland is Russian, that's right

Karelia is karelia

what if finnish is a dialect of karelian

It's not a dialect of Finnish

No, the vocabulary is different enough for it to be a different language.

@@aitokoojii1462 Not to mention the grammar. Also, the dialect of Karelian used in this video (livvi-karelian) is said to be the most intelligible with Finnish.

@@whaleacademic7750 I didn't know that was Livvi. That does make sense.